When the clock strikes midnight on June 18th, Dell will discontinue its sales of XP systems. The move allows Dell to meet the imposed
June 30th deadline which requires the industry to cease shipment of XP machines. That is, unless you're in the market for a
netbook or
nettop in which case Microsoft is happy for vendors to continue shipping XP in order to
stifle Linux's penetration into consumer computing give consumers a consistent user experience. After June 18th, certain Dell products will still be offered with a factory installed, XP Professional "downgrade" at the cost to you or your business of an unused Windows Vista Business or Vista Ultimate license and presumably, a small fee as we heard earlier. However, according to
TGDaily, the downgrade will only be offered on XPS 630 and XPS 720 H2C desktops or the M1730 laptop -- not the 11 laptops and 10 desktops Dell currently ships with an XP option.
Update: Details are
now posted at Dell.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Hackius @ Jun 16th 2008 5:40AM
If you're buying a new machine Vista is perfect for it. It's stable and has a lot of good features. It's lunacy to chose XP.
However Vista is very very bad for an upgrade on an existing machine because it'll eat it whole and have driver problems.
j_g_puff @ Jun 16th 2008 5:55AM
Lots of good features? Tell me some of them.
I've been using Vista for a while now, and although I don't hate it as much as I used to, I can't I'm pleased that I upgraded. Most of the 'good features' that I've noticed seem to be in the form of programs that I don't use.
Amol @ Jun 16th 2008 5:55AM
I don't know dude, I have an XPS m1330, and XP is so much better on it (compared to Vista). It feels much more responsive. XP is just as stable as Vista, IMHO. And I don't really consider UAC to be a "good feature".
Just my thoughts (=
j_g_puff @ Jun 16th 2008 5:57AM
Lots of good features? Tell me some of them.
I've been using Vista for a while now, and although I don't hate it as much as I used to, I can't I'm pleased that I upgraded. Most of the 'good features' that I've noticed seem to be in the form of programs that I don't use.
giuliop @ Jun 16th 2008 6:30AM
Vista is notably slower than XP, plus it has ludicrous problems like the file copying one. It makes no sense at all to buy new, faster hardware only to have it clogged by a sluggish operating system that leaves you with a machine which is actually slower than previous generation's ones.
Mark Anderson @ Jun 16th 2008 7:47AM
Quick! Someone call the incorrect statement police!
Vista is better than XP for a modern system - it's safer, prettier, has DirectX 10, a much better search function and many other features. In addition SP1 has sorted out the vast majority of problems.
However, the file transfer speed is still a bit slow - although not drastically so - but should get better.
Would I go back to XP? Would I bollocks.
Rich @ Jun 16th 2008 7:47AM
"It's lunacy to chose XP."
Unless you want to use one of the numerous pieces of software that's still no compatible with Vista.
Richy @ Jun 16th 2008 7:58AM
Not on the brand new Vaio my missus just got. Vista is just a little sluggish, and seems to get more sluggish over time (after uninstalling all the Sony bloatware, and installing Office 2003 -- nothing else).
UAC is just annoying, the 3D app switcher just pointless, and the new Aero UI just seems to take up more valuable screen real-estate (on a 13.3" laptop).
It'll probably be upgraded to XP now that Sony have released all the necessary drivers.
Me? I'm just glad I moved to OS X last year...!
Mark Anderson @ Jun 16th 2008 8:02AM
@Rich
So... care to name some?
@Richy
What specs has the Vaio got?
Vista Hater @ Jun 16th 2008 1:04PM
OMGD.. I hate Vista its a Joke, Windows XP works fine, I can't imagine using Vista with our older Programs, they dont work with Vista now.
Vista = Loser OS WTB Windows 7 or 8 LOL.
Good_Bytes @ Jun 16th 2008 1:33PM
ok ok.... some clearing up to do...
Vista 32-bit sucks. I mean what do you expect from a last minute done OS.
In the other hand Vista 64-bit surpasses in all fields XP, even XP-64-bit edition (ok maybe not networking... but its not slow, its the same speed, form my testing)
I strongly suggest to anyone that uses Vista 32-bit to switch to 64-bit. You can use the same product key. Just ask a friend for any edition (all the disk are the same, the product key is what decide which edition to install) of Vista 64-bit, and upgrade. HOWEVER, you have to make sure that all your devices including printer, scanner,etc.. has Vista 64-bit drivers.
Vista 64-bit is so good, that most problems reported only affected Vista 32-bit. I say Microsoft should have never released the 32-bit edition.
Anyway, a new system containing with new technologies (nothing old), with a video card that can actually render some sort of Cube and basic effects (in other words all Intel video cards, expect for the 3100 model which is more then enough), latest BIOS architecture and motherboard chipset, 2Gb of RAM (if you have bellow 2GB of RAM, you need to disable superfetch and Windows defender (Vista should use about 300MB of RAM) will have Vista running just as well as XP if not better. (for me it's much better) Don't believe me?
http://pages.infinit.net/eps/vista.PNG
(yea Vista running Vista, and no system slow down here)
If you have Vista Business or Ultimate you can access gpedit.msc panel, and you can really customize Vista. Home Premium need to play with the registry.
Also when you get Vista make SURE you have the latest drivers. Not on Windows update, on the actually company website that made the device.
Example: if you have an ASUS Geforce 8800, go to Nvidia website, not on ASUS nor Windows Update.
If I made Vista run smoothly on a PIII 800Mhz with 512MB with a Radeon 7000, then don't see the problem. Granted it was hell to make it run smoothly as Vista, by default enables everything... but it works. If you spend some time with it, you can really make Vista lighter. In my main system, AMD Athlon 64 4400+ Socket 939, Geforce 8800, 2Gb fo RAM, nForce 4 16X SLI chipset, I only disabled Media center services as I don't use it, however it runs way better then XP. And let's not talk about install time, as Vista installs so fast it's not funny.
If you use Vista, also check this free tool from Microsoft called Autorun:
This tool allows you to change what runs at Windows boot, Windows loading, account loading, drivers and more... I can tell you can clean up all the mess that bad drivers installed (ie: on the X-fi, it loads a punch of effect plug-in at Windows startup... I don't use them, so I remove them all, I saved about 1sec at Windows loading)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx
What is new in Vista.. ok lets see.. Windows XP is based on the good old NT dated from 1993 if I am correct, where security was not a high priority for Microsoft. This is why now a 8 year old kid can easily make hacks and virus for Windows. Vista new core is well a bran new core, started from scratch. So for sure some code optimization is lost. But as a software developer I can tell you that when you re-do something it tends to be better, even when your goal is not to add a thing.
Improved (about time) memory management.. now you can use all your RAM unlike XP, where your application crashes (if pagefile is disabled when you reach 80-95% of your RAM). Moreover, Vista manage memory significantly better to a point that even expert agrees that Windows memory management is actuall descent compared to other OS, XP and older Windows was always abysmal (wasn't that a complain?!), every Windows process and core (kernal) is programed to use your multi-core CPU (XP is single core, meaning a Windows process can either go on core 1 or 2, not using both simultaneously), per application volume control (wasn't that a complain that Windows XP was missing?!), A UI that uses a video card like it should, NOT your CPU (wasn't that also a complain?! and the main reasons why gamers usually tend to disable XP them to gain free CPU), instant search, proper search system (no more dogs and whatever crap), flip3D, improved tablet PC features, speach recognition, (may I say it works dam well when you have a good microphone and you configured it well). New Start menu organization.. the second you get use to it, you like it more then XP.Wait I am not done! Folder structure organization... can anyone tell me how many Application data their is in XP? Well in Vista, by default on a clean install, you only have 1, and it is in your profile folder. "Time-machine" like feature that works per files, folder, drive, or hole system (kinda more advance then MAC OS time machine). Auto-backup features, Complete PC backup, improved multiple monitor support, improved wireless system... support several clocks, side bar, easy to backup yourself your computer (again, just backup your profile, it even contains all your application configuration inside, so you won't need to have fun reconfiguration everything). Memory diagnostic tool, Windows repair know diagnostic the problem and repairs it, unlike XP it just re-install a bunch of files and destroy your system, disk Manager, REAL firewall.
ok I can go on...
So... What was new on XP... Theme, wireless manager, minor bug fix, Windows repair, """firewall""" (with SP2)... and.... well that is pretty much it. You did not really complain did you...
Next time, why don't you stop reading Mac and linux fan boy that have no life and create 20 accounts and goes everywhere on the internet that says Vista sucks, and ACTUALLY use it!
Good_Bytes @ Jun 16th 2008 1:43PM
Fix:
"in other words all Intel video cards, expect for the 3100 model which is more then enough"
I want to say, that all Intel video card are not capable of doing this, except the Intel 3100 model.
"however it runs way better then XP"
however, it runs way better than XP
"punch of effects"
Stupid Firefox spell check... I mean "a bunch"
"you like it more then XP"
You will like it more than XP
LondonConsultant @ Jun 17th 2008 4:50AM
"It's lunacy to chose XP".
Well, I will happily continue to howl at the moon each month! Love XP, hate Vista...
Kip HT @ Jun 16th 2008 6:00AM
Come on guys, there really isn't much of a reason to cling on to XP on a new computer.
Obviously, if you have ancient software that doesn't work, that's a reason. But for the general public, Vista is fine now.
giuliop @ Jun 16th 2008 6:50AM
Take no offence, but this statement can only come out of ignorance.
It's like saying "there's no reason to cling to rubber tyres; just use the newer wooden ones and buy a Ferrari, and you can even go as fast as 60mph".
Why should a bloated, slow - not to mention buggy - operating system be "fine" now? Because we have computers that can finally run it well? Wouldn't you rather have the same machine and run things much faster?
Andir3.0 @ Jun 16th 2008 8:54AM
And not to mention, if you take "the latest games" out of the equation, Ubuntu is good enough for the masses as well.. I have installed it on several of my friends PCs who do nothing but email and web surfing with their PCs and I get nothing but praise for how clean and fast things are.
giuliop @ Jun 16th 2008 9:07AM
"It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours ? Yes, they swallowed it. Parsons swallowed it easily, with the stupidity of an animal."
Saad Rabia @ Jun 16th 2008 6:11AM
This is all great news.
The Windows users should finally start buying machines that run Vista, I mean at this point I see no any reason for people not to like Vista except for the fact that they will need a week or so to fully get used to it.
After using Vista for a year now, I can't even explain how miserable and disgusting it was for me to use my friend's XP laptop! I was pissed at every action it did; it was like a cave man compared to Vista.
People, especially PC users, stop nagging about problems that were showing up more than a year ago; stop reading news papers and asking IT departments about Vista, they will always say it is not the time yet! They just copy each other's talk without even really giving Vista a full try.
As said before, running Vista on an old machine could mean troubles but I really believe that DELL has done the right thing by adding Vista to these new hardware.
Everything now is compatible and much easier in Vista.
If you have any concern, I'm welling to answer your questions, right here. :)
Keep these discussions clean and useful.
csudcy @ Jun 16th 2008 7:07AM
It is slow (bought a new laptop with it on about 5 days ago so Im not talking about old stuff). Startup & shutdown are particular areas of slowness.
UAC is so incredibly unuseful and annoying. Same applies to all files downloaded/from external drives - it wont let you run them without blacking out the screen, waiting for the UAC box to popup, clicking accept/go/whatever, waiting for the UAC to disappear & screen to go black, waiting for the screen before to popup and waiting for whatever you were doing to carry on doin whatever you were doing. If the UAC popped up & disappeared instantly it wouldnt be nearly so irritating. Also, if it only actually popped up for things that NEED admin it would make it much more scarce (I know, this is entirely MS's fault but they are the ones who chose to implement it in the way they did).
Finding a good, free firewall that's compatible with Vista (again, not entirely MSs fault but MS must have done something to Vista to stop them working). PC Tools Firewall Plus and Comodo Firewall Pro are 2 that I found eventually.
Everything's moved! Makes it so difficult to find anything in the control panel.
When you double click a network icon it doesnt take you straight to the properties, you have to wait for several different windows and click multiple times (just makes things take so much longer).
There is no equivalent of sudo - if you want to run chkdsk, you have to go on the 'net and find the workaround of running cmd with ctrl-shift-enter (I think thats the key combo anyway). Which is really annoying if you've just typed in a long command line because there is no persistent history either!
Cant think of anything else right now, but Ill be sure to let you know!
Saad Rabia @ Jun 16th 2008 7:50AM
@ csudcy:
1. Make sure you don't have anything running at start up that you wouldn't use (crap-ware).
2. UAC: Go to control panel, user accounts, then switch it off. Very simple, and works like a charm. (I have it off)
3. Firewall Software: Check out Norton 360, McAfee, or Windows Live OneCare (which I use, and works like magic).
4. Network Icon: It is a matter of getting used to it.
5. CMD commands: I didn't get you, but I used the CMD a couple of times and had no troubles with it!
I really wouldn't mind having to do 3 steps to open my network connections' window when I have much more features to enjoy inside Vista, and the other stuff is just something you'll get used to sooner than yo think. I was enjoying XP, I shifted to Vista, got angry for the first two weeks, then realized that I can't thank Microsoft enough for including so much features in Windows, I really mean it!
Mark Anderson @ Jun 16th 2008 7:55AM
Zone Alarm works fine for me too as does Avast anti virus.
Andir3.0 @ Jun 16th 2008 8:56AM
So, you are saying that I should dump what I have now to install something new and configure it to act like what I have now... What world does that make sense?
R Nair @ Jun 16th 2008 9:51AM
I completely agree with Saad. I have two computers that are running Vista and they work great. I have had no issues in the past 6-8 months. I cannot imagine going back to XP.
I disagree that Vista is all bloatware, because this is the direction of software evolution, with better/ more capable softwares (which are often bigger). I am sure that we could run windows 95 on any junky computer and boot up real quick, but I am sure that we would not want that either. Vista may have some bad choices (not in my opinion), but it is definitely a great piece of software that can run on most midstream computers today. I would definitely skip XP on future buys.
Ghen @ Jun 16th 2008 3:02PM
95 to XP is a huge step up in terms of stability, file encryption, and network connectivity. XP to Vista is a step up in what, the UI? Completely unnecessary.
CraigJ @ Jun 16th 2008 4:49PM
I disagree. I have been running Vista 64 on my work system since March 07. It works OK. I have spent many hours tweaking the configuration, turning off all the lame security crap. Vista is usable.
I have a couple of Dells at home, one with XP and one with Vista. The Vista one is very flaky. It is only 5 months old and came pre-installed with Vista. The other system is much more responsive, is 6 months old and came with XP.
The vista box has twice as much RAM, an a dedicated 256 MB Nvidia card.
It's not so much that Vista is crap, it's that it really doesn't do anything that XP doesn't do, and it does things slower.
I've been buying a new Dell every year or 2 for the last 10 years.
No XP means Dude, I'm getting a Mac...
Scott @ Jun 16th 2008 5:19PM
Saad,
We already know you're biased towards Microsoft on everything they do.
Saad Rabia @ Jun 16th 2008 6:12AM
This is all great news.
The Windows users should finally start buying machines that run Vista, I mean at this point I see no any reason for people not to like Vista except for the fact that they will need a week or so to fully get used to it.
After using Vista for a year now, I can't even explain how miserable and disgusting it was for me to use my friend's XP laptop! I was pissed at every action it did; it was like a cave man compared to Vista.
People, especially PC users, stop nagging about problems that were showing up more than a year ago; stop reading news papers and asking IT departments about Vista, they will always say it is not the time yet! They just copy each other's talk without even really giving Vista a full try.
Seriously guys, grow out of this girly talk running around.
As said before, running Vista on an old machine could mean troubles but I really believe that DELL has done the right thing by adding Vista to these new hardware.
Everything now is compatible and much easier in Vista.
If you have any concern, I'm welling to answer your questions, right here. :)
Keep these discussions clean and useful.
CosterMonger @ Jun 16th 2008 11:01AM
Saad Rabia = Microsoft Evangelist.
Saad Rabia @ Jun 16th 2008 11:07AM
@ CosterMonger: An Evangelist? I don't think so. I don't see any perfect company out there for me to be their evangelist, but I don't mind showing my full respect to software or hardware that is good and deserve some attention, every once in a while. ;)
Andir3.0 @ Jun 16th 2008 12:51PM
What? Where? Who?
Luke @ Jun 16th 2008 6:22AM
I agree, great news.
It's been interesting to see the paradigm in OS's shift from "progress for the sake of progress" to "familiarity before all else" as people got a little TOO used to XP.
topspeed @ Jun 16th 2008 6:29AM
My biggest Vista peeves:
-hiding away essential commands like "start run."
-paranoid level security out of the box.
-click-per action ratio.
-Three different flavours that make it difficult to know what's on what computer.
Ghen @ Jun 16th 2008 3:05PM
As for run commands, you can do them in the search bar in the start menu. I had to look that one up too. Its still not as perfect as the run command but it works 95% of the time when you're forced to work on a vista machine.
kevin_ho @ Jun 16th 2008 4:03PM
to get run command thing on start menu, just right click the start menu, properties, start menu customize, find the box for run command, then check it off
Ian @ Jun 16th 2008 6:38AM
Your strike through of "stifle Linux's penetration into consumer computing" is so funny. Linux will never, I repeat never, be a viable consumer desktop product until there is 1 Linux, and not the proliferation of variants that continue to confuse. It's about time that the "geeks" of this world remember that they are a very real minority, even though they are the vast majority on blogs and forums.
No matter how good or bad the latest and greatest OS from Microsoft or Apple is pronounced by the "geek squad", Mr Consumer will continue to buy mainstream products. He's never heard of Linus Torvalds, but does know of Mr Jobs and Mr Gates.
teecas @ Jun 16th 2008 7:03AM
Agreed. But I think Ubuntu is going the right path. Linux is not yet the most "user-friendly" OS around.
kamu @ Jun 16th 2008 7:48AM
Ignoring the fact that Mac OSX runs on an open source unix kernel, and that any web server worth accessing runs a unixy operating system.
Ubuntu will emerge as the "1 Linux" you speak of. And the other distros will still exist and will look on approvingly. I think you are too hasty in your ruling out of linux.
Now, if Windows were to drop the NT Kernel and adopt a unix/linux kernel.... porting between linux, Mac OSX & Winux would be trivial (I think, not entirely sure... if the porting between Linux & OSX is as easy as I think it is.). That would mean software that was available on all distros!
Kelmon @ Jun 16th 2008 8:12AM
Honestly, I don't think it's that funny. It's quite clear that Microsoft are shipping XP for cheap PCs in order to maintain their stranglehold on the desktop computing market. I entirely agree that Linux really could do without the multitude of different distributions (I am quite certain that Linux advocates will disagree with me, and I do understand why) in order to make a purchasing decision easier for the customer, but these systems were already selling quite well before Microsoft turned up, so I don't think the unknown OS was a barrier (heck, I bought a Mac before they became "cool" again because there was good information to show me that it would do what I needed). As long as the netbook manufacturers provide good information that shows what the PC can do, that should be enough for Joe Consumer.
Kelmon @ Jun 16th 2008 8:50AM
@kamu
Porting between Linux and OS X is probably easy enough if you want to work with X-Windows, but native Mac applications run via a different windowing server, and with APIs not found on Linux. Aside from using Java, or deploying as a web application, I don't think porting between Linux and OS X is going to be simple, particularly if you are starting with a Cocoa-based application on the Mac. That said, it clearly is not impossible given the current crop of cross-platform applications.
nanobis @ Jun 16th 2008 7:11AM
Vista hasn't really bugged me, part from the early peeves at the start when i got my laptop, and at SP1 (who didn't) but that was sorted quickly, and now its running faster then it was, but that may be to do with having to replace the MB.
Only problem i have now is that my copy of Vista its telling me that Its not a genuine, but thats to do with MaxDATA.
Gary Meyers @ Jun 16th 2008 7:26AM
Endgadget, shame on you for not spinning this into an article about Apple. Okay, I'll start. Bootcamp will run XP and Vista... Whew, wouldn't have made it through the day without putting Apple into one of your Non-Apple reports.
V Langs @ Jun 16th 2008 7:45AM
even as a mac user, that was pointless
V Langs @ Jun 16th 2008 7:45AM
and i got ur failed attempt at sarcasm, but like i said "failed attempt"...
neofolklore @ Jun 16th 2008 8:01AM
Soon, a place that rhymes with "Birate Day" is going to have SOO many seeders on the XP torrent
hrld161 @ Jun 16th 2008 8:06AM
man am i happy im still running windows xp professional on my dell . . . anyone who upgraded to vista the day it came out should have waited . . . anyways go to the closest computer software shop and get a noobie salesman or woman to sell u a copy of windows xp . . .
Rick @ Jun 16th 2008 8:06AM
That link is to the Home and Home Office web page. I think XP it will still be available on the Latitude, Vostro, Precision Workstation as the XP/Vista downgrade thing. How degrading.
Luke @ Jun 16th 2008 8:07AM
This whole disgussion is pointless - the very fact that there is enough of a demand for new machines with a previous generation OS means Microsoft has failed miserably.
I jumped on the vista bandwagon with a top of the line Vaio last year, ran it for 6 months, sold it and bought a Macbook Pro - Ive never looked back.
Put it this way - try and find a single forum where people are downgrading from Lepard to Tiger...
And no - I'm not an apple "fanboy" OR a power user, but a consumer who account for the majority of new PC sales today - Internet, bit music/video and word processing (yes, i DO use Office on it!)
When will people see that Mac's are the way to go - Everything just works!
Kelmon @ Jun 16th 2008 8:37AM
In all honesty, and to play devil's advocate here, I have contemplated going back to Tiger, in similar fashion to the way in which I contemplated going back to Panther. I haven't done this simply because I've come to depend on the additional features that the current OS provides, but this isn't to say that I'm entirely happy. Searching, for example, was often a lot faster in Panther than it was in Tiger despite the addition of Spotlight. Equally, Tiger currently is pretty solid whereas Leopard continues to suffer from bugs, such as its mishandling of proxy server PAC files at the moment that causes .mac syncing to go nuts and iTunes to crash when visiting the iTunes Store.
So, while we like to mock Vista, let's not forget the old adage that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The Mac is not the perfect platform, at least until Apple fixes the various bugs that still exist in Leopard 8-months after its launch.
Quikboy @ Jun 16th 2008 5:04PM
Really? I use Vista on my Vaio and it works wonderful. Vaios are top-notch computers, and I find it a bit hard to believe that it couldn't run Vista very well.
mojohat @ Jun 16th 2008 8:08AM
Dell will be allowing us to get XP Pro on the majority of their Business line. All you have to do is choose "Windows Vista Bonus". Its the same price in if you were to choose the XP Pro Upgrade from XP Home ($99). Basically they factory "downgrade" your system to XP Pro for you. They give you media for both XP Pro and Vista Business. They support both OS's for the length of your warranty. So your getting 2 OS's for the price of one upgrade. Its kinda cool.
This will go on through Dec. 2010! 2 more years for those die hard Vista Haters.
This program will be for: Optiplex, Latitudes, and Precision Workstations.