Kaleidescape's overpriced upscaling DVD players get reviewed

Let's get real honest with one another here: if folks are legitimately arguing that a $700 Profile 2.0 Blu-ray player is overpriced, there's absolutely no way a DVD player is worth over four times as much. That being said, the folks over at Sound & Vision put the pricey pair through the paces, and they were actually quite pleased with the results. In a nutshell, it seems that reviewers found the best upscaling DVD players this planet has to offer, and while all the fawning over their pristine reproduction of colors was fine and dandy, it's the value proposition here that's absurdly out of whack. In fairness, it's good to hear that the bundled Sigma Designs' Gennum VXP video processor chip lived up to the hype, but all the upconverting in the world won't make us believe these things are worthy of the stratospheric prices.

[mkim @ Jun 18th 2008 6:07PM]

Well it's not JUST an upscaling DVD player. It's also a media server, which works much better than any setup most people can manage. Also, don't knock it till you've tried it.

[Hill @ Jun 18th 2008 6:37PM]

"don't knock it till you've tried it"

Sorry dude, can't afford to try it...

[anthony @ Jun 18th 2008 7:28PM]

MKim's right here. First of all, the photo you have here isn't a DVD player at all. It's a room box for stream your movies from the server to your tv.

Calling the KScape movie player a DVD player is like calling a Tractor Trailer an SUV.

People need to educate themselves before they start bad mouthing a product that isn't even what they are claiming it to be.

The image shown is a room box. It streams movies from the hard drive music and video server. Also available is a media player which is basically the DVD ripper for your server.

What KScape is doing is upgrading their existing line of products. Sadly, they have not implemented Bluray ripping and I'm sure there are many technological and legal reasons for that. The fact of the matter though is by the time they do stuff a Bluray reader in to their equipment they will have already started their 1080p HD movie online store.

[SHoe @ Jun 18th 2008 7:30PM]

@mkim: the item in question IS just a player, not a media server. The player - the KPlayer-6000 - is $4,295.

From the article:
"The new 1080p Player is available now at a suggested price of $4,295"

The Kaleidescape media server is separate and will run you another $10,000

[SHoe @ Jun 18th 2008 7:43PM]

@ anthony

No - the photo here is the player. The mini player actually. And if you click the read link and go to the review article, you'll see a photo of the mini player sitting on top of the full player (the 'KPlayer-6000').

But don't take my word for it - go to Kaleidescape's web site and check their product page - see the pictures in the pdfs for each player product and each server product? An important point given that $4,295 is just the plate NOT the server.

[anthony @ Jun 18th 2008 8:04PM]

@SHoe
This is a photo of the room box. There is no optical drive in it. Yes, they call it a "player" but it's not a DVD player - it's a movie player. The server streams content to this device over the home network and it is then output to your TV. Think of it as your personal In-Home Comcast OnDemand. The server is Comcast and this mini player is the cable box.

The full sized unit does allow DVD playback of [rented] movies but more importantly it is the ripper for storing DVDs on the server.

[SHoe @ Jun 18th 2008 8:57PM]

@ Anthony

You are right - it is a 'player' for the Kaleidescape server and does not contain an optical drive. But mkim is not correct to say that it IS a server. Kaleidescape's media server is another beast entirely - and an even more expensive one ($10k).

So the the point of the article - that the upscaling DVD player (and the mini player) are ridiculously expensive - is a very valid one. You don't get a media server for that $4,295 - just an upscaling DVD player (albeit a hell of a great upscaling DVD player).

[neofolklore @ Jun 19th 2008 7:56AM]

So why is my $60 modded XBOX1 obselete now? I'm missing something.

[Low Ranked @ Jun 18th 2008 6:09PM]

A device like this would be worthy of its price if it played Blu-Ray discs as well.

The price is probably justified by those who own a library of thousands of DVDs, have a nice expensive HDTV, and would like to utilize all of its resolution without having to re-invest their entire collection into Blu-Ray.

There's a niche for something like this, albeit a small niche.

[Kax02 @ Jun 18th 2008 6:24PM]

The way it functions seems to indicate that it wouldn't get along well with BR discs given the virtual machine that comes with BD+. It seems that they're working on trying to bypass it much like others have moved to do since it's been brought to market.

I could see people with huge libraries using this as well, not only would it take forever to wait for all your movies to hopefully make it to a BR disc but the re-investment would be massive. I have a few hundred movies as is and I'm on the fence about what to do anyway given that it'd be around $13,000 to re-buy those movies on BR disc right now. So having a player that affords me the longevity to enjoy them in a higher visual capacity doesn't look nearly as bad.

[Lars @ Jun 18th 2008 8:00PM]

I just don't get it... am I missing something? PS3 does the same thing, for one tenth the price. And media center PC's are one tenth the price of the Kaleidescape media center.

[Josh @ Jun 19th 2008 10:04AM]

for $4295, i think i could replace my entire DVD collection and more with blu-ray

[Mark @ Jun 18th 2008 6:10PM]

I can have a blu-ray player in every room of my house including the bathroom for the same price as this costs!

[slarity @ Jun 18th 2008 6:14PM]

Unfortunatly not all the pre existing media

I do think this is a ripoff but what are you going to do? Wait for Toshiba?

[erenba @ Jun 18th 2008 6:15PM]

You have only a bathroom

[Benji @ Jun 18th 2008 6:18PM]

What do you mean without all the pre-existing media?

My Sony BDPS305 is the best DVD upscale device I've ever owned.
Unless I'm not understanding what you mean. Which is very possible.

[nak @ Jun 18th 2008 6:22PM]

And with 170,000 DVD titles available vs. the paltry 6,000 for Blu-ray, would wouldn't want this thing?

[Jimbo @ Jun 18th 2008 6:37PM]

Every blu-ray player I'm aware of is able to play those DVDs.

Not to mention, even the PS3 has an excellent DVD upscaler. The Kaleidescape people claim their stuff is only for those who really know their stuff, but it's apparent it's only for those who know nothing at all about this stuff. I can put all my DVDs on a computer, and stream that content to every room in my house, without any need for this expensive product. The resolution can be very, very good, and for a fraction of the cost, I can use 5 PS3s or similar products that play blu-rays and handle the streams. All you need to know is how to stream media and save DVDs to a hard drive. It's not complicated stuff. You pay less for a much better solution. Hell, you even get to watch all your movies from anywhere in the world.

I'm noticing that these guys and their handpicked (lackey) reviewers refuse to put up a screenshot of this product's upscaled image next to a screenshot of a blu-ray movie. The reason is obvious.

[Ignatius @ Jun 18th 2008 6:37PM]

When did Blu-ray players stop playing DVDs?

[Jack Chance @ Jun 19th 2008 12:54AM]

@nak:
good point about the # of DVDs vs. Blu-ray, but it still seems way pricey.

Everyone:
will this thing upscale better than my mac mini? or than any PC with a DVI or HDMI 1080p output?

[massive_98 @ Jun 18th 2008 6:23PM]

For a company that sells incredibly expensive products, why does there name sound like a childrens pop group.

[nak @ Jun 18th 2008 6:28PM]

It's a Christian album, actually...

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=81230314&s=143441

[Rob @ Jun 18th 2008 7:11PM]

I don't know, but why don't you have a seat right over their?

[Bob Sintas @ Jun 18th 2008 7:19PM]

A seat over wear?

[Ignatius @ Jun 18th 2008 7:36PM]

I see what you did thar.

[Cal @ Jun 18th 2008 7:57PM]

Wut he did wear?

[Tim @ Jun 18th 2008 8:05PM]

Sea what you did their...
You're humble servant...

[V Langs @ Jun 18th 2008 6:24PM]

you know this is actually really cool.
i have a home theater in my basement, a pioneer elite in the fam and two small (23-27 inch) lcds upstairs. If I could hook up a media server and have it all available to me at all times regardless of where i am in the house, it'd be sweet.

now i have something like that already, My old powermac G5 is hooked up to a draft-N router and I have dvi prewired throughout the house, so if ever i want to use the mac regardless where i go i just carry my mouse or mouse and keyboard.
It also has elgato eyeconnect, so the pioneer and home theater can receive downloaded content.

it's still not an elegant solution.
say the price for everything was reduced a grand and a blu-ray was included. i'd be sold.

[Damage @ Jun 18th 2008 6:41PM]

Wait until Toshiba comes up with their high floggin, upscalin', DVD playin sun-uf-a-gun!

[Jimbo @ Jun 18th 2008 6:43PM]

You don't understand. The capabilities of this product are apparently that it lets you watch movies all over your house. This is not an impressive or novel capability. The price makes no sense.

The company can't put up its screenshots next to blu-ray screens or they lie would be proven. They admit that they are working on a blu-ray player, so obviously that's an enhancement over the current gen of products they have, and anyone buying this is a total sucker.

How does this beat a normal media PC that streams content all over your house? The upscaler? I haven't seen any evidence that it's much better than a PS3's upscaler or one from any of the elite Blu-ray players. And of course, a PC can upscale damn nicely. Those Toshiba laptops have extremely advanced upscalers (similar chip to what's in this system). Why not get that and 8 PS3s? It would actually cost less, and damn that would be a lot more fun and impressive and so much more effective.

A ferrari that handled worse than a Camaro would indeed be overpriced, pal.

[Yamtastic @ Jun 18th 2008 6:55PM]

There are NOT 6,000 Blu-Ray titles as the article claims. According to The Digital Bits, a big Blu-Ray supporter there are only 557 Blu-Ray discs for region 1 with another 80 in the works.

[Orenthol @ Jun 18th 2008 7:07PM]

Well, there's something to be said of exploiting stupid lazy rich people.
Granted, I don't care about folks exploiting said people so much, as they deserve.

What is bothersome is how this is just fueling the moronic idea that somehow upscaling is as good as, or nearly as good as, or even comparable at all to 720p or 1080p.

That NEEDS to go away, else tech is going to be even further held back.

[Bruceleeroy @ Jun 18th 2008 7:10PM]

I have about 3 of these all throughout my estate, I keep it on my Diamond encrusted platinum shelf with trimmings made of wood from the cross of jesus christ.

It upscales my whole library of films quite nicely I must say.

[Ignatius @ Jun 18th 2008 7:44PM]

Thank you for making me spit out my dinner laughing. You win, good sir.

[andres @ Jun 18th 2008 10:57PM]

@ignatius
2 minutes and you can get yourself a new hot pocket.

[A1 @ Jun 18th 2008 7:10PM]

"Sadly, the new player won't handle Blu-ray. For fun, I dropped a BD into the drive thinking maybe, just maybe . . . but the player spit out the disc after a few seconds. Until Kaleidescape offers a Blu-ray solution — which they've promised to do sometime in 2009 — these new movie players offer performance that will make the wait less painful."

If this is so good why does the reviewer say "sadly it won't handle Blu-ray" oh yeah cause its not as good.....super-up-conversion lovers you fail.

HD is out there its called Blu-ray go f**king embrace it. Forwards not backwards.

[oddsareihateyou @ Jun 18th 2008 7:16PM]

As if we didn't know you were a failure by your name.
Let me explain this to you in simple math.

Kaleidescape's upscaling DVD player costs $3000 or $4300
But in return you get 1080p DVD's

Sony's Playstation 3 costs $399.99
PS3 also displays your DVD's in 1080p

$3000 > $399.99

Therefore this device is overpriced.

Now don't sit there and cry about all the other wonderful things this does, because it doesn't, the actual content server costs $10,000 more and holds all your movies and music.

This product, is a DVD player.

And you sir, fail at life.

[pretol @ Jun 18th 2008 7:29PM]

Yo gotta be SHITTING ME...

Has anyone even read the reviewer... The reviewer is a suckup... Oh what, he didn't want to do the test patterns, because they don't reveal anything, and went on straight to watching the movies? Oh great! Why measure the units of clarity/precision/etc. when you can blab about how awesome movies are in general. Oh what? wait! The upscaling DVD was upscaling the wrinkles on people in the distance whose face was recorded in a single pixel? Well I'll be damned! AMAZING!!

Thank god for dumb people... and statistically some of those dumb people are rich... Here's the product for them...

[alexmueller @ Jun 18th 2008 7:40PM]

"Sadly, the new player won't handle Blu-ray. For fun, I dropped a BD into the drive thinking maybe, just maybe . . . but the player spit out the disc after a few seconds. Until Kaleidescape offers a Blu-ray solution — which they've promised to do sometime in 2009 — these new movie players offer performance that will make the wait less painful."

Said the reviewer, the wait less painful?... or you could stop waiting, save money, and get a Blu-Ray Player right now.

[anthony @ Jun 18th 2008 7:33PM]

@ oddsareihateyou

Too bad this isn't actually a DVD player. It's a ripper for your hard drive music and movie server. Rather than a hard drive filled with 780p movies, you now have 1080p movies - special isn't it?

And you sir, fail at life.

[Dogface @ Jun 18th 2008 7:34PM]

The Gennum VXP is an outstanding scaler and it is one of the best ways to upconvert 480i content (DVD). I've used it for the last ~2 years in an Anthem D2 and the quality from a 480i source (DV79-AVi) is quite good.

However, as good as the VXP equipped D2 and DV-79AVi are, they really are not as good as Blu-ray 1080p from my PS3.

Kaleidescape's claims are typical A/V hype/horse pucky just like upscaled DVD players calling their output "HD".

[FreshTapCoke @ Jun 18th 2008 7:46PM]

To continue your car analogy farther, let's say you take the Kaleidescape. It's faster and more attractive than your Hondas or Toytas and has alot of neat gadgets inside like reclining seats and an ice cube maker.

On the other side, you have a Blu Ray media server, the Ferarri of cars. It doesn't have the knick-knacks that the Kaleidescape has, but it's way faster, more attractive visually, and costs a 10th of the price.

Now if you're buying a car solely for the ice cube maker and you won't buy a car unless it has it and you aboslutely need a car and you have a billion dollars and the Kaleidescape is the only one with it, sure, it's not technically overpriced. It's the only price. But try to name a car that fits this description: slower than a Ferarri Enzo, less attractive than a Ferarri Enzo, but with more features inside, that costs 10 times as much as one. No one has that business model; it would be absurd.

[oddsareihateyou @ Jun 18th 2008 7:38PM]

@anthony

"Kaleidescape's overpriced upscaling DVD players gets reviewed"
"there's absolutely no way a DVD player is worth over four times as much."
"it seems that reviewers found the best upscaling DVD players this planet has to offer"

Learn to read
kthxbi

[Ignatius @ Jun 18th 2008 7:43PM]

You can buy these so-called media extenders for $200-300. Hell, if you have Windows XP Media Center Edition or Vista, your 360 can be used as an extender.

Besides, streaming HD over the air does have it's faults, from what I've seen, the audio and video have syncing issues.

[Frankenstein Black @ Jun 18th 2008 7:51PM]

Continuing from the previous post about this:
3. Garbage in, garbage out.
4. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

[Gripen40k @ Jun 18th 2008 8:33PM]

*cough*Sigma Designs not Gennum*cough*

(http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/Products/vxp_selection_guide/vxp_overview.html)

[Dogface @ Jun 19th 2008 3:06PM]

True - Sigma Designs bought the VXP image processing part of Gennum earlier this year. We are, however, talking about the same technology.

[anthony @ Jun 18th 2008 8:14PM]

@ oddsareihateyou
You should actually read the Sound and Vision article before you quote other people who are incorrect.

The image pictured does not have an optical drive what so ever. Quoted from the article, "Designed as a client only, the Mini Player doesn't have it's own drive, but relies on streaming content from the server."

The full sized player has a drive that will allow DVD playback but is used mainly for ripping movies to the server.

What KScape is doing is upconverting the video either as it's being ripped or as it's being played back in order to get the 1080p resolution.


And you sir, fail at life.

[Zoesch @ Jun 18th 2008 8:47PM]

I got some awesome Monster oxygen free cables and those stabilizing pebbles to go with this setup.

I"m not against high end AV gear since there's plenty of good uses for it (Small theaters, installations, displays, etc.) but I think Kaleidascape's really taking the piss with this setup cost.

[tomokazu.osada @ Jun 18th 2008 9:05PM]

DVD vs BLU-RAY:

anybody remember the picture quality of VHS? i'm sticking with DVD.

tomo