I just ordered a Lenovo Thinkpad R61 with Vista and Vista will never boot on the system. Installing linux is my first order of business. That should take care of all of this bullcrap with Vista.
Went with a Vista one due to the wait on the Linux one, the wireless card had a 4 week lead time and I know I can get the one that comes with it to work. Now I just have to decide if I am going to stick with Gentoo or move to Debian.
You're basically never used Vista, but say it's bullcrap?
"Went with a Vista one due to the wait on the Linux one,"
One of what?
" the wireless card had a 4 week lead time and I know I can get the one that comes with it to work. Now I just have to decide if I am going to stick with Gentoo or move to Debian."
Sorry, it is a little confusing, typing on mobile devices isn't always the easiest.
To make it simpler for you to understand, Lenovo sells their Thinkpad laptops with linux, OpenSUSE to be exact. The R61, T61 and maybe X61 models that come with linux end up using a different wireless card. Currently, that wireless card has a 4 week lead time verses no lead time with the other wireless card they offer. I justed customized one that comes with Vista to meet my needs for about the same price.
As far as Vista goes, I have used it. In fact, I was one of the people in charge of checking out Vista for use in the company. I am in different with it, don't care one way or another. I really have no problems with it other than stand list, the resources it actually requires. We have currently decided not to go with Vista, it just is not worth it for us right now. We would have to change our current PC upgrade plan and it isn't something that management wants to do nor pay for yet. We may re-evaluate in a year or so, but I think we will be skipping Vista all together and look forward to Windows next release after SP1 comes out for it.
As far as the "bullcrap", I merely just meant the customer not getting an option anymore and being forced to choose Vista or soon, pay through the nose to have someone downgrade it for us.
Either way, my new laptop will never boot Vista because there simply is no reason too. Linux is getting installed because that is my OS of choice. As an added bonus though, linux will utilize the resources better, especially the 1 GB of ram.
With every MS (and even Apple) OS release, they always phase out the older version from the market shortly after the new release. It doesn't make sense to keep the legacy version on the market. And really, you do have a choice. With Vista Business and Ultimate licenses, you can downgrade to XP Pro, or even Windows 2000 at any time you like.
Also, despite what lots of FUD spreaders have said, Vista will work just fine with 1GB of RAM (for non-gaming purposes).
But it is bullcrap with the issues they have been having with it and the fact that it is being pushed out on machines that shouldn't really be running it. I understand that MS needs to phase out older products, but then their current product isn't complete up to snuff, that is when I have a problem.
On top of that, while you or myself may be able to down grade Vista. I know of a lot of people that cannot and it is not like MS makes it easy to do. You need to obtain a key for older versions and they don't simply hand it out. My wife's best friend is a perfect example, she bought a entry level laptop with 512 MB of ram that had Vista. I turned off all the bells and whistles and the thing still ran horribly. She eventually paid someone to downgrade it to XP since Vista should have never been installed on it.
I have used Vista on PCs with 1 GB and 2 GB of ram. While with only 1 GB of ram, there still is something left to be desired with its performance. I will still contest that 2 GB is a very good idea over 1 GB when running Vista.
@zargons last comment Most of this vista "Bullcrap" is the fault of the hardware resellers. Companys like HP, Acer and Dell who try to sell machines to customers with far to little hardware to run it properly. I do not support anyone upgrading a pc they got before the vista release to vista. Vista is designed for new machines, not old ones. The hardware and software upgrades in the last few years have meant that any system more than 2 years old is so obsolete that there is no way it could run new software, and when people try to do this and fail, they instantly blame microsoft (mostly because its the only company name most computer illiterates know) and all of a sudden vista is this horrible calamity. Does anyone care to remember back to the release of XP? it was a bigger trainwreck than vista, and now everyone wants to go back to it because its "more stable", im sorry, but that doesnt really make sense to me
I am actually in the exact same ship as zargon's original post, Vista ran like ass on my R61 (and don't give me some BS about it being underpowered, this puppy's got the new penryn), so I threw Gentoo on it. 5 minutes to decide that I left my home wireless ap for my office ap? Uh, no. Pass. NetworkManager picks up on it immediately and cuts over between wireless and wired, as well as multiple networks.IBM/Lenovo have been working on Linux support for years (thought the "slapbook" was cool, try using the HDD APS as an actual input device) so all the h/w works out of the box in Linux, including things like the HDD Active Protection. I also like the multiple desktops, as I get the best of both worlds: I have an rdesktop shell script to launch a login to a windows station @ work on desktop 4, the rest on desktop 1. Then w/ compiz it's just a ctrl+alt+left/right to get to them. (Really helpful for helpdesks in mixed environments)
I'll give Vista that Bluetooth worked well, that was pretty cool. It recognized my razr out of the box. Also, I think 64-bit support is really starting to come along. And while driver signature enforcement is annoying (I *know* it's possible to disable, had to for VMWare Server), it's about time Microsoft started doing something about what's been giving most of the BSOD's in XP: third party drivers. But no, it doesn't work fine for non-gaming purposes w/ only 1GB of RAM. I tried. And about killed someone before finding a stick on sale @ OfficeMax.
Microsoft is not doing anything new with Vista licenses. They did the exact same thing with 2000 and XP licenses when those OS's came out.
The vast majority of consumers have no reason to downgrade to XP. With the release of SP1, Vista has been complete up to snuff.
As for your friend with the 512MB laptop, obviously if computer manufacturers are doing a poor job of preloading and pre-configuring the system, you're going to have a bad experience. That applies to ALL OS's. (Really, instead of downgrading, you should have added more RAM, as that would have been more useful and it would extend it's usage in the future.)
It's not Vista that made that laptop run slowly, it was all the bloatware installed. I know you uninstalled it, but in my experience, simply uninstalling the bloatware is insufficient. Unless you perform a clean install with a clean Windows disc, you're going to have a slower-than-it-should-be system. I've seen XP running with 1GB of RAM run like a Pentium II because of all the bloatware on there. That's hardly the fault of the OS.
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I just ordered a Lenovo Thinkpad R61 with Vista and Vista will never boot on the system. Installing linux is my first order of business. That should take care of all of this bullcrap with Vista.
Went with a Vista one due to the wait on the Linux one, the wireless card had a 4 week lead time and I know I can get the one that comes with it to work. Now I just have to decide if I am going to stick with Gentoo or move to Debian.
Your comment made no sense.
You're basically never used Vista, but say it's bullcrap?
"Went with a Vista one due to the wait on the Linux one,"
One of what?
" the wireless card had a 4 week lead time and I know I can get the one that comes with it to work. Now I just have to decide if I am going to stick with Gentoo or move to Debian."
What the h3ll are you even talking about?
zargon: Just try Vista. Just one full day. I think you'll change your mind. :)
Sorry, it is a little confusing, typing on mobile devices isn't always the easiest.
To make it simpler for you to understand, Lenovo sells their Thinkpad laptops with linux, OpenSUSE to be exact. The R61, T61 and maybe X61 models that come with linux end up using a different wireless card. Currently, that wireless card has a 4 week lead time verses no lead time with the other wireless card they offer. I justed customized one that comes with Vista to meet my needs for about the same price.
As far as Vista goes, I have used it. In fact, I was one of the people in charge of checking out Vista for use in the company. I am in different with it, don't care one way or another. I really have no problems with it other than stand list, the resources it actually requires. We have currently decided not to go with Vista, it just is not worth it for us right now. We would have to change our current PC upgrade plan and it isn't something that management wants to do nor pay for yet. We may re-evaluate in a year or so, but I think we will be skipping Vista all together and look forward to Windows next release after SP1 comes out for it.
As far as the "bullcrap", I merely just meant the customer not getting an option anymore and being forced to choose Vista or soon, pay through the nose to have someone downgrade it for us.
Either way, my new laptop will never boot Vista because there simply is no reason too. Linux is getting installed because that is my OS of choice. As an added bonus though, linux will utilize the resources better, especially the 1 GB of ram.
Your "bullcrap" comment is bullcrap.
With every MS (and even Apple) OS release, they always phase out the older version from the market shortly after the new release. It doesn't make sense to keep the legacy version on the market. And really, you do have a choice. With Vista Business and Ultimate licenses, you can downgrade to XP Pro, or even Windows 2000 at any time you like.
Also, despite what lots of FUD spreaders have said, Vista will work just fine with 1GB of RAM (for non-gaming purposes).
But it is bullcrap with the issues they have been having with it and the fact that it is being pushed out on machines that shouldn't really be running it. I understand that MS needs to phase out older products, but then their current product isn't complete up to snuff, that is when I have a problem.
On top of that, while you or myself may be able to down grade Vista. I know of a lot of people that cannot and it is not like MS makes it easy to do. You need to obtain a key for older versions and they don't simply hand it out. My wife's best friend is a perfect example, she bought a entry level laptop with 512 MB of ram that had Vista. I turned off all the bells and whistles and the thing still ran horribly. She eventually paid someone to downgrade it to XP since Vista should have never been installed on it.
I have used Vista on PCs with 1 GB and 2 GB of ram. While with only 1 GB of ram, there still is something left to be desired with its performance. I will still contest that 2 GB is a very good idea over 1 GB when running Vista.
@zargons last comment
Most of this vista "Bullcrap" is the fault of the hardware resellers.
Companys like HP, Acer and Dell who try to sell machines to customers with far to little hardware to run it properly.
I do not support anyone upgrading a pc they got before the vista release to vista.
Vista is designed for new machines, not old ones. The hardware and software upgrades in the last few years have meant that any system more than 2 years old is so obsolete that there is no way it could run new software, and when people try to do this and fail, they instantly blame microsoft (mostly because its the only company name most computer illiterates know) and all of a sudden vista is this horrible calamity.
Does anyone care to remember back to the release of XP? it was a bigger trainwreck than vista, and now everyone wants to go back to it because its "more stable", im sorry, but that doesnt really make sense to me
Arch Linux is the way to go :)
I am actually in the exact same ship as zargon's original post, Vista ran like ass on my R61 (and don't give me some BS about it being underpowered, this puppy's got the new penryn), so I threw Gentoo on it. 5 minutes to decide that I left my home wireless ap for my office ap? Uh, no. Pass. NetworkManager picks up on it immediately and cuts over between wireless and wired, as well as multiple networks.IBM/Lenovo have been working on Linux support for years (thought the "slapbook" was cool, try using the HDD APS as an actual input device) so all the h/w works out of the box in Linux, including things like the HDD Active Protection. I also like the multiple desktops, as I get the best of both worlds: I have an rdesktop shell script to launch a login to a windows station @ work on desktop 4, the rest on desktop 1. Then w/ compiz it's just a ctrl+alt+left/right to get to them. (Really helpful for helpdesks in mixed environments)
I'll give Vista that Bluetooth worked well, that was pretty cool. It recognized my razr out of the box. Also, I think 64-bit support is really starting to come along. And while driver signature enforcement is annoying (I *know* it's possible to disable, had to for VMWare Server), it's about time Microsoft started doing something about what's been giving most of the BSOD's in XP: third party drivers. But no, it doesn't work fine for non-gaming purposes w/ only 1GB of RAM. I tried. And about killed someone before finding a stick on sale @ OfficeMax.
Microsoft is not doing anything new with Vista licenses. They did the exact same thing with 2000 and XP licenses when those OS's came out.
The vast majority of consumers have no reason to downgrade to XP. With the release of SP1, Vista has been complete up to snuff.
As for your friend with the 512MB laptop, obviously if computer manufacturers are doing a poor job of preloading and pre-configuring the system, you're going to have a bad experience. That applies to ALL OS's. (Really, instead of downgrading, you should have added more RAM, as that would have been more useful and it would extend it's usage in the future.)
It's not Vista that made that laptop run slowly, it was all the bloatware installed. I know you uninstalled it, but in my experience, simply uninstalling the bloatware is insufficient. Unless you perform a clean install with a clean Windows disc, you're going to have a slower-than-it-should-be system. I've seen XP running with 1GB of RAM run like a Pentium II because of all the bloatware on there. That's hardly the fault of the OS.