Progressive insurance has been testing out the MyRate driving monitoring system for a few years now (it used to be called TripSense), but it's finally taking the system national, bringing pay-as-you-drive insurance into the mainstream. The little blue box plugs into your car's ODB II diagnostic port (all cars made after 1996 have one), and studiously records your driving habits, wirelessly sending the data back to Progressive HQ (it's not clear exactly how). Every six months, Progressive will crunch the numbers and issue a new rate for you based on how you drive -- savings of up to 40 percent are possible. That's pretty tempting, depending on your current rates and driving habits, but we're not so sure we're willing to share that much data for an unspecified discount -- especially since we're confident the MyRate box will get cracked almost immediately.
[Thanks, Mike; image courtesy of
Aaron Landry]
Read - MyRate press release
Read - MyRate video
Read - How MyRate works
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
DefPo3t @ Jun 28th 2008 8:41AM
This is one of those moments that you wouldn't mind someone hacking your car....
well unless they made it to where the thing said " God help, This person drive liek a maniac
lu1de @ Jun 28th 2008 8:42AM
why would ppl wanna crack it?
DefPo3t @ Jun 28th 2008 8:44AM
so it when it phones home to progressive it tells them that u have been a angel while driving no matter how your really have been driving
lu1de @ Jun 28th 2008 8:48AM
oh
ShadowKain @ Jun 28th 2008 12:44PM
So you get an automatic 40 percent discount doi...think!
TheGasMan @ Jun 28th 2008 3:01PM
lol @ the 12 year old
sepirioth @ Jun 28th 2008 4:30PM
So that the 140MPH I like to do becomes 40?
Richard S. @ Jun 28th 2008 5:07PM
Wow. You're cool. Can I have your autograph?
ScooterDe @ Jun 30th 2008 5:28AM
it would be pointless to crack. The insurance would not cover you if your driving at the time of the accident differed from your profile (e.g. you were driving faster).
Grimaldi @ Jun 28th 2008 8:54AM
One of the largest insurance companies offered a similar service in the UK until earlier this year when the scheme was suspended due to low take up.
Bad Beaver @ Jun 28th 2008 8:58AM
Yeah, next up it will not only - as I assume - record how far and how fast, but also record GPS data of where and when. Always just driving round from home to Micky D's Drive-In to Blockbuster and straight back home? Your health insurance rate is on the way up kid, but if you drive slow & steady you might be able to make up for it. Technical progress, just awesome...
Matthew @ Jun 28th 2008 10:38AM
How dare chose risks be incorporated into informed, uncoerced business transactions! Sarcasm aside, I would worry if genetic/congenital/uncontrollable factors worked their way into insurance premiums. Until that time, I’ll continue to ask why you expect anyone to subsidize the lifestyle you described?
Bad Beaver @ Jun 28th 2008 11:47AM
Hm, somehow my comment didn't show up, sorry if this is now double-posted.
If your god's name is spelled Profit, it will work its way ;)
It is not really about the subsidizing of blatantly unhealthy lifestyles (think, the machine would still just know where you're going but not where. You may just be picking up your partner from work or actually stop to shop at the veggie-store next to MD's...) rather than about invading privacy and personal lifestyle decisions. Personal Freedom, remember? In the end, what would you prefer: Everyone paying a tiny little bit more because some people make "bad" decisions, or some insurance company - which you give money to all the time whether you use their service or not - dictating how you better live your life according to what they deem acceptable? Think about it. If you don't do all those evil unhealthy things you might live up to 100 years or more. You may need constant medical attention due to age-related issues. Now that is expensive... likely even more expensive than a violently obese person dying at 65 (if that late). Should you expect anyone to subsidize such a costly lifestyle? But you know what, you can lower the rate enormously if you sign up to our soylent green plan...
I LOVE THE CAPS LOCK KEY @ Jun 28th 2008 12:39PM
Read the articles before you assume.
QUOTE
"What does the MyRate device record?
The MyRate device records speed and time. From that data, we can determine the number of miles you drive, the time of day you drive and how aggressively you drive. The MyRate device does not keep track of where you are."
Assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME.
http://auto.progressive.com/progressive-car-insurance/myrate-device.aspx
Bad Beaver @ Jun 28th 2008 2:16PM
Try turning down your insolent tone and read the postings correctly before you snot at them.
whatishalo? @ Jun 28th 2008 6:37PM
Yum..soylent green...
Matthew @ Jun 29th 2008 1:18PM
@Bad Beaver:
>the machine would still just know where you're going but not where.
The assertion in your first post was that with the addition of GPS, insurance plans would charge you for where and when, no?
>You may just be picking up your partner from work or
>actually stop to shop at the veggie-store next to MD's.
If you're switching your argument from "one party's choices should not be a factor for the other party in a business transaction" to "companies will suffer if their rating system is inaccurate", then yes, I agree.
>you give money to all the time whether you use their service or not
You constantly get service from your insurance -- protection from the threat of the unknown. As soon as you know with complete certainty that you're not going to be involved in an accident, cancel your policy and save yourself the cash.
>dictating how you better live your life according to what they deem acceptable
This furthers the misconception that insurance companies are passing judgment. It has to boil down to objective numbers, otherwise the DOI (as each and every state has a Department of Insurance for the sake of consumer protection to ensure than any premium charged is actuarially justified) blocks that company from doing business. In bizzaro world, if speeding and tickets resulted in less losses, the same insurance companies would start rewarding such behavior, because in a competitive marketplace the winner is the one that can accurately price the risk and charge as little profit thereafter.
>If you don't do all those evil unhealthy things
>you might live up to 100 years or more
You might, but on average, you won't. Period.
>You may need constant medical attention due to age-related issues
Which is why the caveat for the sake of societal fabric has to include those things out of our control.
Bad Beaver @ Jun 30th 2008 6:48AM
Yes, that was the assertion though I would rather call it a hypothesis. You spotted my mistype. Where and when. Not why. Where and when would be bad enough already. I, by the way, I disapprove of counter-arguments in the line of "no you won't".
Matthew, as you're obviously a specialist in the field of insurances, you likely work in that field. I'll have to admit: I am not. Nevertheless, I perceive the claim of "protection from the threat of the unknown" as a constant service as a little over the top. Insurances take your money and invest it to make more money. That is the constant part. As most people tend not to break their car (or whatever) each and every year, the companies are likely to make a good profit. While they deal in a field that involves a level of risk and uncertainty, you will certainly agree that insurance companies do not exist out of sheer benevolence. In fact, you did already. They are in for profit, their customers are in for protection. Everybody pays a little so the company can pool more than enough money to cover the actual damage. That's the deal. Its fine that way. Not fine is when one party has excessive means of controlling the details of the deal in order to minimize their risk. I mention this as you seem to get something mixed up. The issue under discussion is not whether insurance company X gets a fair shot at calculating and pricing the risk. The issue under discussion is that once you allow them to monitor and thereby modify your behaviour in a certain way "so they can better price their risk in a competitive marketplace", you automatically allow for an escalating spiral due to said argument. It is now easy to imagine a scenario in which you might not be able afford a certain insurance product anymore (vehicle, health...) due to "risk" calculated by extensive personal data mining and the trading of "objective numbers" beyond your control. Which results in "might as well cancel your policy", as you described, yet involuntary. So the insurance lost a paying customer, the customer lost protection, the other customers who can still afford the service are being conditioned in ways that ultimately run contrary to any idea of personal freedom, resulting in "all lose". This is of course a highly exaggerated scenario, yet it is exactly where you end up if your goal is ultimate control of risk (and yes, avoiding it will mean that on average prices will likely be higher). The idea is not to subsidize "negative" behavior or to exploit insurance companies. The idea is that freedom, while inherently bonded with risk and uncertainty, is rated higher than control or profit.
Matthew @ Jul 1st 2008 12:14PM
>>>If you don't do all those evil unhealthy things
>>>you might live up to 100 years or more
>>You might, but on average, you won't. Period.
>I disapprove of counter-arguments in the line of "no you won't".
Verbose translation: Activities are frequently labeled "evil unhealthy" when there's objective, scientific evidence linking it to an expensive outcome. QED, bad behavior isn't a guarantee of a bad outcome, but is by definition a justifiable reason to expect one and act accordingly.
>Insurances take your money and invest it to make more money.
>That is the constant part.
Insurance companies do this to such varying degrees that it's inaccurate to label it a constant. Rather than being dependent on prescient investment strategies, other companies pursue thin margins on top of operational efficiencies -- the later approach reduces rate volatility from bear/bull market swings, as fair & steady rates can be appealing to the insurance customer.
>the companies are likely to make a good profit.
Care to define "good?" Is 4% (i.e. the target published on Progressive's website, and the number that isn't always hit every month, as is the risk with running an insurance company) too good? Companies that don't charge enough go out of business. Companies that charge too much get their market share quickly gobbled up by the competition.
>Not fine is when one party has excessive means of controlling the
>details of the deal in order to minimize their risk.
When someone wants a service related to a personal preference, why should they not have to pay for it? How does someone feel entitled to demand "shine my shoes," "pay for an accident if I get in one," or "calculate my risk as if I were a low Mach" without paying a premium in exchange?
>automatically allow for an escalating spiral due to said argument
If that's the way you want to frame it now, why cannot the spiral be positive? How many people today cannot afford insurance, but when the companies learn that the risk really is lower because of positive _chosen_ behaviors, the insurance gains a paying customer, the customer gains protection, the other customers pay even less now that more people are insured and margins can be even thinner, resulting in "all win".
I would respond the exact same way if someone with a horrible credit history was whining about not getting a preferred rate on a home mortgage. This is not Gattaca -- no one is asking for your DNA. No one is taking away your freedom to choose. Companies are merely offering participation in the changes that come from lowered uncertainty gained by additional insight into chosen behavior.
If you feel that a product is invasive, don't patronize it, and communicate with your state's DOI as they continue to work with companies in promoting a fair and healthy insurance market.
Jeff Snugglebutton @ Jun 28th 2008 8:59AM
You want to "crack" this thing so if you drive more then what you stated to progressive or if you are a speed demon and such instead of your rates going down they will go up, so if you can hack it to say that you are a little old lady who drives 10 miles a year your insurance will be lower.
bob @ Jun 28th 2008 9:07AM
They can simply check your odometer records from one inspection to another to ensure you are truthful.
Ryan @ Jun 28th 2008 9:26AM
I do all my own maintenance and inspections, as I'm sure other DIY'ers do too. I would be tempted to hack it but I'm sure that if you get caught you will be charged with insurance fraud. I don't expect there to be Gps tracking in there though. Some might consider that invasion of privacy (although its voluntary). Seems like a really great concept though. I would definitely start driving better if I knew I could save money by driving the speed limit. I wonder if there are certain requirements though, like that you have to always keep it in at all times. Otherwise I would just take it out when I felt like driving fast and put it back in when I want to cruise. I could also just keep it out, or in another car and it would be like I never drove it, right?
Andrew @ Jun 28th 2008 10:53AM
it probably keeps track on milage so if you take it out of a period of time progressive will know info is missing. They will also know if its in a different vehicle because all of a sudden the car would have way more or way less miles and it would be giving the device different codes.
TrackSol @ Jun 28th 2008 11:30AM
@andrew, you have to know how the OBD2 port works. It's a diagnostic port that has information from various sensors on the engine: temperature, speed, throttle and stuff like that. Mileage is never reported through that port and neither is the VIN number.....
Zandr @ Jun 28th 2008 1:54PM
@TrackSol
I worked on a project to build tags just like this for rental car companies (to automate checkin/checkout).
*All* we cared about was VIN, odometer, and fuel level. VIN is easy, and I believe mandated in later cars. Odometer and fuel level tended to be proprietary (non-standard), but once we had the VIN, we knew how to get the other stuff.
ericthebikeman @ Jun 28th 2008 4:30PM
@tracksol
No VIN? Oh, yes it does. Open Vag-Com on any VW and it will be happy to give you the VIN for the car along with the serial number for any addressable module of the car. It worked fine on an '01 so anything newer would likely pull up the same if not more info.
Eric @ Jun 28th 2008 4:00PM
@ Ryan: Massachusetts is one of many states that have mandated, state-controlled inspections, so no matter how much of a "DIYer" you are, the state still wants to take a little looksie inside your vehicle once a year.
Walt @ Jun 28th 2008 8:59AM
Please note: even if you take thorough precautions against MyRate hearing you... it can still see your lips move.
phanbouy @ Jun 28th 2008 12:25PM
HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
bob @ Jun 28th 2008 9:07AM
Wait how does it communicate with progressive? It communicates wirelessly but what frequency could it be using?
jjdetroit @ Jun 28th 2008 9:37AM
I have a friend with one of these (not sure if Progressive is her insurance company or not). The device is uplugged periodically and plugged into her PC, from which the data gets uploaded to her insurance company. She tells me the data says she was on the road at times when she knows she wasn't. We haven't been able to figure out how the device KNOWS what time of day you're driving: none of the mechanics I've talked to think any of the engine computers include a time-of-day function.
nxtiak @ Jun 28th 2008 9:10AM
But I have my ScanGauge II hooked up to my ODB II port, where's this MyRate crap gonna plug into?
Matt E. @ Jun 28th 2008 9:54PM
You mean you don't have an OBD II 7-port HUB and multi-card reader?
darkstar @ Jun 28th 2008 9:17AM
anyone has this and care to share with us your opinions?
i guess your rate would go up if you drive like a maniac huh?
Jon Doe. @ Jun 29th 2008 2:08AM
NOt just that but if you drive a lot for your job, if you are taking short trips up the road to Blockbuster. Etc, etc, etc. Not of which gets reported to your insurance carrier currently. This crap better not ever get mandated or many of us are screwed....even those of us who don't drive like idiots.
spinler @ Jun 30th 2008 10:42AM
i have been using tripsense for a few years now. it comes with a cable to connect it to your computer every six months (progressive sends me a reminder email) and it only takes a few seconds to upload. i can then view all of the data (shows mileage, time drive, hard braking, hard accelerating, and date and time). on my last upload, i got a 9% savings on my next premium (can get up to 20% savings). it can only go down too. they won't increase beyond your original premium. this is actually great for me because i'm starting to bike more and only drive my car about twice a week. i think this a great feature and plan to continue using it. i know most people associate insurance companies with blood sucking leeches but i've really had nothing but good luck with progressive. (can't say the same for the bastards at state farm)
Ozbone @ Jun 28th 2008 9:18AM
Now THAT is scary! So you're driving down the road and some jackass pulls out in front of you - you stab the brakes - swerve - avoid an accident and what does Progressive see ?? Frightening. Really frightening.
Matthew @ Jun 28th 2008 10:53AM
If Progressive only offers good/competitive rates to drivers that never ever ever ever take evasive action, how many customers do you think Progressive would expect to have? Now if you want to look at objective numbers, there is actuarial justification to regard the individual that is consistently/regularly swerving after drawing “the other guy” bad drivers like a magnet as a worse risk. If you chose MyRate and your rates go up, it’s not because somebody doesn’t like you or evaluated you on non-existent data; it’s because fair and objective calculations identify you as a relatively higher risk.
pop @ Jun 28th 2008 11:55AM
"actuarial justification" = ass ramming
"fair and objective" = two words that can never be used to describe an insurance company
LD-SFV @ Aug 28th 2008 6:28PM
And here's what I worry about... I don't drive much, so I would consider this for the discount on mileage, but...
In LA parking is difficult. A lot of times when we got out we just have to valet. I've seen how the valets drive these cars, especially sporty little coupes like mine. If they see the aggressive way the valets are handling my car, even though I'm a good driver and put like 3000 miles a year tops on my car, I'm not going to get the discount. I'd be all for it if it was just making an appointment with a rep to check my odometer.
Ric Kaysen @ Jun 28th 2008 9:21AM
OK...maybe I'm not getting this, but say I'm driving a steady 40MPH on a road posted for that speed. How does it know that I'm not on a road posted for 25MPH? Not all cars are equiped with GPS and this gadget doesn't appear capable of it.
Killer @ Jun 28th 2008 9:37AM
I doubt its for that type of situation. This is just my two cents on what it might do. It's to see if you are going above the interstate limit for one. I mean you can't avoid the chip when you're going 90 mph on the interstate. No state has that high of a speed. If you have a constant rate of 55 mph through the time period that can determine if you've been speeding too. If you live in a town how exactly can you get that average with most speed limits being 45 and under. It's pure numbers and averages based on location.
brux2dc @ Jun 28th 2008 2:48PM
Without GPS whose to say that I wasn't driving in West Texas doing a legal 80MPH!
Carlos Martins @ Jun 28th 2008 9:26AM
Just so you know... it's not ODB but OBD. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II#OBD-II
Andrew @ Jun 28th 2008 9:41AM
I guess there aren't many of us who are nerds AND car guys, haha.
uagent @ Jun 28th 2008 1:30PM
Well you see, this device actually connects to the little-known Ol' Dirty Bastard 2 port on late model vehicles.
I kid, you get the upvote from me. I love the port in theory, I hate that I had to pay $25 for someone to plug into it and go "Yup, it works!" when emissions time rolled around -_-
Andrew @ Jun 28th 2008 9:40AM
I'm fairly certain my rate would go UP with a device like this, haha.
Josh @ Jun 28th 2008 9:44AM
Can it go up by 40% too?
Andrew @ Jun 28th 2008 10:53AM
It can go up by up to 9% in some states - i'm guessing those people will just quit the program
Derek @ Jun 28th 2008 9:54AM
Inthinc's Tiwi is better.
It _has_ a GPS, flash memory for maps (speed limits of certain areas), a cellphone for telemetry, a voice chip, call button for OnStar type service, etc.
They're pretty accurate. NASCAR's using them to count laps.