Subaru features STELLA electric car at G8 Hokkaido Toyako Summit
By Darren Murph 
posted Jun 29th 2008 8:04AM
posted Jun 29th 2008 8:04AM
[Via AutoblogGreen]
posted Jun 29th 2008 8:04AM
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Finally, a normal looking electric car that can seat 4 people!
Yes, as I was telling my dear old FC, Mr. Catso, in a few years gasoline vehicles will be all but obsolete.
You call *that* normal? I call it butt ugly.
Well, it looks like a normal Japanese car.
Jono, how can you call it ugly? It doesn't have the looks of a Ferrari by any means, but it's certainly what I'd call normal looking. Infact, it looks a lot like the Scion xB.
Shame it isn't environmentally friendly as well.
Great! Now all I'd have to do is find a place to charge it.....four times a day!
Do you honestly travel 200 miles a day? Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, I honestly doubt that.
The average commute in USA is 32 miles both ways roundtrip. This would be fine for the majority of US commuters, and with the gas money they save they can hire gasoline cars for road trips.
I am all for hybrid or electric cars, and I want to be buy one, but they really need to work on the looks of these cars before I will buy one. The Honda whatever it was called, was ugly and the Toyota Prius is not much better.
Egnored, Firefox Extension to ignore users on Engadet. http://www.electroburn.org/egnored/
The Honda Insight?
It's beautiful. What the hell are you smoking?
you guys all sound the same. how vainglorious can you get? aren't you all the ones screaming about style over substance on apple postings? that's what i thought.
You dare you insult the insight, even after the grave it is most fuel efficient mass produced car in America.
If the Insight was so perfect why is it gone?
STELLA!!!!!!!!!!
*rotflol* Classic!
Is there a kit for someone that wants to convert to electric
I'm sure that you can find a company that will sell a kit, but the installation would most likely require a lot of car knowledge. However, if you know how to do it then it's a lot cheaper than buying a new car.
where is this kit? got a web site?
I honestly don't know which requires a larger paradigm shift in the general public, purely battery powered electric cars or fuel cell powered electric cars.
Everyone rags on hydrogen as smoke and mirrors but battery powered EVs have some serious hurdles to over come amongst the general driving public:
1. Every city in North America will need huge auto recycling facilities if Battery EVs take off because @ $20000 a piece for the battery there will be no such thing as a used EV market because just as people won't buy a refurbished cordless phone that does not come with a new battery, they sure as hell aren't going to buy a used EV without one, and for the cost of a new battery, well, you might as well just buy a whole new EV. So cars will be as disposable as cell phones, just creating a whole lot more waste to worry about.
2. Charge times. 10 minute recharges are as much a fantasy as the hydrogen economy. There are no fast chargers in existence and every EV will require a different charger. Install them at home you say? Hmm, except for every city in North America has it's own rules about how much wiring and electric current in homes along with the Stat/Province and federal rules. Lots and lots of bureaucratic red tap to over come there.
3. Cold weather. Existing batteries do not perform well in cold weather. Sure my gas powered car gets poor millage in winter to, but it does not get poor millage when parked at my place of employment for 10 hours in Winter. I don't want to lose energy while my car is parked outside for 3 or 4 months of the year.
4. Range. Sure the average commute is under 40 miles, but who wants to charge their car every night. People are used to getting a week or so out of existing technology. It will require a shift in attitudes of the buying public to accept a car that only lasts a day AT best on a charge. Oh sure, A Tesla Roadster can go about 200 miles on a charge, but a Tesla roadster is based on a slightly over sized go-cart of a car which is completely useless for the average commuter. The Tesla 'Whitestar' sedan and the Think Ox are purely vaporware for the foreseeable future so there are no EVs in existence that would even come close to meeting what the general car buying public would consider an acceptable daily commuter.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get off gas as much as anyone, but between fuel cells and battery EVs we probably still have 20 years to go before either of the technologies is at a point where they can truly make a significant impact in the market. Sure Honda is making 200 FCX Clarity's per year, and there will be a tiny niche market of battery EVs, but until at least our unborn kids are graduating from University, for the most part we'll all still be driving the gas powered cars we have for the last hundred or so years.
KC sez:
"Range. Sure the average commute is under 40 miles, but who wants to charge their car every night. People are used to getting a week or so out of existing technology. It will require a shift in attitudes of the buying public to accept a car that only lasts a day..."
--------
You'd be surprised what people will put up with when faced with $5 a litre.
What we are seeing is reactionary baby-steps from all the car companies hoping to remain relevant in the future and mirroring their competitors own baby steps. There is still very little real big-dollar R&D being spent, more of a "we can do electric too" type of situatioin.
That will change completely as prices rise (and frankly things are still cheap enough to make pointless 2KM trips to the shops without thinking twice for most people, but that will change too).
1. No used EV market?
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/05/28/another-toyota-rav4-ev-for-sale-on-ebay-already-going-for-50-0/
Used cells that can't be used to run cars can still be further used for power management for utilities.
http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/765.html
After that the recycling is not going to be much different than hybrid battery recycling.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environment/recycle/battery/index.html
We already have extensive lead-acid battery recycling. you aren't really suggesting that people can easily dump the couple hundred pound batteries away without noticing it (unlike a cell phone or other electronics which you can easily dump in a trash can)?
http://www.epa.gov/msw/battery.htm
2. 10 minute rapid charge: old news (not fantasy). Different plugs for home charging? Not really. If you look at the direction of recent PHEVs and EVs they all have the normal 3 prong. The older EVs are the ones with all the different plugs. Rapid chargers are the same kind of infrastructure investment as hydrogen fueling stations, except EVs don't absolutely NEED them to charge, unlike hydrogen cars, which need fueling stations.
http://www.greencar.com/features/features39/
3. The temperature problem can be solved by having a heater for the battery pack. Pack can operate at -20°C (-4F°). If it's parked and charging at your work place there is no reason why it can't keep the battery warm similar to an engine block heater.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=43
a123 cells can operate at -30°C. Same limit as the V-flow FCX fuel cell stack. These batteries are existing, it is competing for a contract to power the Volt (you should know this if you have been following the news).
http://hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.A123Cells
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX
4. Tesla Roadster while being a 2 seater, 2700lb car is not the most efficient possible (it's still a sports car). 53kWh/230mi = 0.241kWh/mi at the battery.
The Volt looks to be more efficient at 8kWh/40mi or 0.2 kWh/mi at the battery. So it's possible to build a 5 seater and still get 200+ mi range.
On your last point, I agree, it will take a long time for EVs to replace our gasoline fleet. Hydrogen, I think will take even longer, just because of missing infrastructure and the staggering vehicle costs compared to EVs. As a side point, a PHEV would make all the issues you mentioned non-issues. So a mix of PHEVs and EVs can definitely replace a lot of cars.
Will this be the first Subaru that isn't all-wheel drive?
That's a good question. All wheel drive does make the car heavier and decrease fuel economy (or in this case the range of the car), but in some areas, all wheel drive is a necessity during the winter. My dad used to have a front wheel drive Volvo S70 sedan and in the winter it was sometimes impossible to get up our driveway.
Subarua has made plenty of non- all wheel drive vehicles. I own a 92 Loyale myself.
Yeah, but how much will it cost? Will it be available in a reasonable amount of time and in North America? I'd buy one.
"Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, I honestly doubt that."
Get a map out and add it up between Tucson and Phoenix.
It is not about which car is better. It is about getting free from the system. For most of us we will most likely be prisoners till the end of our lives. The system will never let you free to choose the alternatives. Even if gas cost $100 per litre tomorrow, we will still be slaves.
Aside from horse & carriage (which I'm seriously awaiting the return of) there's:
*bikes (pedal power)
*bikes (electric and/or manual)
*motorbikes (not 'free' but sure are cheaper)
If things went to $100 a litre, you can bet there will be fresh air and far more silence later that same week. Busy, congested streets will be silent. Kids might even go out more. People may even talk to each other more.
Bike sales would skyrocket. A large proportion of the population will agree it's not so bad after all. Bike prices will skyrocket :) Horse & carriage will be given the green light. Grass will be taxed :)
(Time to make room for Horsy).
@ tekdroid
No, $100/liter will make out cities look like China... a gajillion swarming people on all sorts of mismatched conveyances... bicycles, scooters, human powered carts, etc...
Personally I'd rather have 5-10 cars outside my window idling at a light in the morning then 10-20 scooters.
Typically the worst part of my day is trying to "share the road" with the throngs of bicyclists, scooter operators, etc, who do not obey traffic laws... the few who do obey are rewarded with either their fellow riders yelling, or automobiles who abuse the bike lane (where available) by using it to pass on the right or take right turns because they feel like it's eye-for-an-eye vs. the bikes who encroach on their lanes.
A 50 mile driving range equals a driving radius of less than 25 miles. Is this car some sort of joke that Suburu is playing? Do these people
realize the utter stupidity of a car that can only get to destinations within a 25 mile radius? My golf cart can go further than this car.
Can your golf cart drive on roads? No.
End of story.
Love my subaru
For those of you whining about the range, this car is obviously not for you. A range of 50 miles would work well for most people, but not for you.
If you drive 200 miles a day, you seriously need to think about where you live in relation to your job, 200 miles a day is just wasteful, no matter what you drive.
"200 miles a day is just wasteful, no matter what you drive."
That's presumptuous. There are many lifestyles and jobs in America.
If you're driving 200 miles a day to go to your office, then it would be cheaper to just 1) move or 2) get a second apartment instead of wasting gas. If I had a choice, I would rather my money go to some local guy trying to fill up his apartments than have my money going to some oil guy in the Middle East that has so much money that he doesn't even bother to count anymore.
If you have a job like mine (fixing computer issues at a bank with 50 locations in the area), there can be days where I may have to drive 200 miles in one day because sometimes computer issues can be spread apart. Typically, I may only drive 50 - 100 miles in a day though.
You need to drive as part of your job, in that case driving 200 miles or more per day is unavoidable.
I'm talking more about the people that, say for instance, work in a cubicle and live in some suburb 50 miles from work, that just doesn't make sense to me.
Hmmm ... my old job was near La Jolla, CA. Cheapest reasonable house for a family would run you well over one million. Within 20 minutes you might have been able to find a home around $800k.
We ended up living 60 miles away. At that distance you could find a comparable home for $450-500k.
People that commute don't do it for the fun of it. I wish that my job paid enough to afford the million dollar home. Unfortunately, that was out of my budget.
You probably could have gotten a condo that would have fit your family, but you'd rather have single family home. It was that kind of demand (fueled by a belief that every American has a right to a 3000 sqf detached house) that built the exurbs/suburbs that are now quickly deteriorating into ghost towns and worse (ghettos). If I were you, I'd sell your house before it becomes worthless; very shortly, there will be no demand for housing that includes a 60 mile commute. You're going to find yourself upside down by the end of the year, and if gas really does get to $5-6 a gallon as is being predicted, you'll lose at least 40% of your house's value in a matter of months.
Some people drive to more than just work in one day
Some people drive for work
and others have responsibilites that involve driving.
RE: The battery
That's weird, the Mitsubishi has a similar form factor/weight, and it's getting 80-90 mile range in real-world tests.
So basically, this is a souped up golf cart then?
Cue Nastro to slander Subaru as "eco-freak commie libruls out to steal my precious bodily fluids!!!11one1!"
EVs in and of themselves will not solve our dependency on fossil fuels, but they will become part of a larger solution. We are seeing the beginnings of a paradigm shift, one that will alter the fundamental ways in which we live and work. Suburbs and exurbs are unsustainable; we are returning to the era of clearly delineated urban and rural living, with the former constituting the great majority of the population, and the later reserved for those who are actually employed in the agricultural industry, not just poseurs who want big, cheap houses on five acres. The surburbs/exurbs will collapse and become the new ghettos, just as they did in Paris. Its already happening; while suburban/exurban home prices continue to decline precipitously, there is a new "white flight" back to the urban centers, driving up urban real estate prices and regentrifing cities. 200 mile commutes WILL end, and as such, EVs will be very practical for the vast majority of people. Welcome to the 21st century.
Subaru is not the name of the company that manufactures Subaru cars. Actually there is no automaker called Subaru. Subaru is only a brand name. The name of the company correctly is Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.
Isn't "Stella" Just the word "Tesla" (with an extra L)
Hmm....
Any idea how EVs would fare in more northern (read: colder) climes, such as Toronto or Halifax?
Stell-a
You put me through
Hell-a
STELLA!
Uh.. hello. I'd like to make an electric car, here's my paperwork and design:
"Sorry, it's not ugly enough. Electric cars can't be slender and modern. Regulations".
OMG KAWAIIIIII