GM dropping Volt's range from 600 to 360 miles
By Nilay Patel 
posted July 9th 2008 5:51AM
posted July 9th 2008 5:51AM
[Via Autoblog]
posted July 9th 2008 5:51AM
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Hmm. Sounds like someone made a deal with the oil companies. I wonder how many other manufacturers are going to follow suit and limit the driving range of their hybrids.
And if you're wondering there's a very good reason why I think this. It's rather hard to manufacture cars without cutting oil and other oil based industrial products. As the price of oil goes up, so does the cost of those products.
It's in the best interest of auto manufacturers to keep oil companies happy.
you guys don't get it..they will lose money on every car at first also by designing a small tank it is less to change when the range for the electric portion gets better then less reengineering costs in the future ....also GM has to foot the costs for R& D while toyota was funded by the japaneese government...so the next time you buy a car don't contribute to your retirement and health plan contribute to the japaneese ...you see they have a retirement program and national health....hmmmm
anonymouspimp wrote "But if this thing does what it says, I woudn't have used a drop of gas in the process... Which sounds pretty good to me."
Obviously you haven't read up on the Volt.
Yes, the Volt is being designed to get 40 miles on electric only. Did you think how about how those batteries are going to be charged?
By the engine in the car. That means that the car will still use gas. Drive 10 miles, park and the engine will recharge the batteries. Drive 100 and at the 40 mile mark, the car will start the engine AND charge the batteries. Say hello to driving a slug.
Typically the first 40 miles (approximately) will come exclusively from battery power that was charged by the electrical grid. Only after that does the engine need to be used. Perhaps not optimal for road tripping, but neither is a traditional hybrid, where the mileage gains are realized by usage in stop and go traffic. How often do you stop and go on a road trip?
Methinks you need to read up some on how this car works.
not a huge deal - 231 miles/week is about average in the United States per vehicle -- that mean average is 33 miles/day -- if Volt gets 40 miles a charge I would think the average driver would probably visit gas station once a month.
TWITCHY wrote: You forget that you would also charge it at night...
That's where I disagree with these hybrid technology pundits. How do you know what I would do at night and how I would use the car? I say to GM make the best hybrid you can and I'll use it how I want. Dont try to dictate a lifestyle or usage pattern. A 600-mile range car would be attractive to cab companies, or students. Sure, people dont go on long drives anymore but maybe they will, if they now have such a car. who knows. Build it and we'll see.
Enough of this "This is how you're gonna use the car..." BS.
It's a chicken-&-egg thing. That's like saying, people dont go swimming in lakes and rivers anymore so it's not worth spending money on cleaning them up. Well in some sites, maybe if they were cleaned up, more people would enjoy them.
Duh
you DON'T have to plug it in at night if you dont want to. if you don't, then its just an electric car charged by the engine.. stop overblowing things out of proportion..
"How do you know what I would do at night and how I would use the car? I say to GM make the best hybrid you can and I'll use it how I want. Dont try to dictate a lifestyle or usage pattern."
We don't. However, if you are not going to plug the car in, you are completely neutralizing the majority of the benefit from this car. This is a car designed specifically for people who use their vehicle 95% of the time for short trips and are able to plug their car in at night for a recharge. If you are not one of those people, then this really isn't the right car for you. You'd be better off with either a TDI or a traditional hybrid. GM is not forcing you into this pattern, you'd be forcing yourself into an inefficient usage pattern for this particular vehicle. I'm not advocating that you plug it in every night. I'm advocating that you buy a vehicle that suits your needs. If this is not the car, then so be it.
"A 600-mile range car would be attractive to cab companies, or students. Sure, people dont go on long drives anymore but maybe they will, if they now have such a car. who knows. Build it and we'll see."
A 600-mile range would be nice and all, but most cabs are used in urban/suburban areas with a lot of stop and go traffic. This type of usage is better suited to a traditional hybrid like the Prius. For the college student who may have extended highway trips, a TDI would probably be a safer bet. Apply the proper technology to your lifestyle. Don't try to wedge the wrong vehicle into your life and then complain when it doesn't work how you think it should.
I'm a devoted fan of japanese made cars particularly honda and toyota. but being that I'm american citizen and know that a company like GM could really revolutionize the hybrid scene as well as restore the balance of import and exports, im all for this vehicle. Lets hope it does really really well
Stromm...
How is this a deal with the oil companies?
Seriously?
The car will be even more efficient do to it's lighter weight... which means less fuel over the lifetime of the car. Heck it is even possible that you will SAVE money because you fill up later on... Price today: $4.25 a gallon. Price in three weeks... $4.20 a gallon... so, instead of 25 gallons at $4.25, you save on the second half... (now granted the reverse could be true also)
Maybe it is a corrupt deal with the mini-mart guy...
Since you now have to make a stop to refill and buy a twinkie or a $1 64oz beverage.
Originally 25 gallon tank...
Now 12 gallon tank...
300 miles on one 12 gallon fill... FOR LONG TRAVEL...
Local travel... you could go a full month without filling up..
All I know is... how can I get my name on the list to pre-order one.
My now 11 year old Malibu is starting to get on it's last legs and I have been holding out for a "green" car... the Volt fits EXACTLY my usage pattern.
Kal
GM could then make a "special" cab version of the car...
One that could either:
a) have a larger tank
b) have more batteries
It would be awesome if they would come out with some easy charge system..
Something that could be installed say in the floor of my garage... when the car is parked in the garage, it automatically starts to charge... and stops when "topped off"
They are NOT going to get it 100% perfect in the first version.
Heck... in 60 years (main stream years of auto-production)...
How many NEW models and designs were 100% perfect...
How many were still not perfect after 10 years of modifications....
How many cars are now on nearly 60 years of "design" and yet still have something that can be tweaked out.
Seriously....
If the car truely will get 40 miles to a charge...
I could honestly see me only filling the car once a month... during a BAD month.. $50 a month (with current prices)... is a HECK of a lot better then the near $400 I drop now... Heck that $350 a month savings will probably be my monthly car payment for the new volt...
I've no doubt that the end result will be a car that's horrible to drive. It's what GM does best.
Umm well actually that's not even going to be the skin. Bob Lutz said its so not aerodynamic they can't use it.
My Jetta TDI can go 1,350 miles before filing up with a full tank of diesel and veggie oil.
THis article would have been news 4 months ago, when the decision was made to only use one of the two small 6 gallon gas tanks. The reason was obvious to those who understand the Volt, not to those around here, apparently. Sour gasoline. It's quite probable that many Volt drivers will NEVER use 12 gallons of gasoline before it goes sour (I estimate it would require 18 months for me to use 12 gallons driving a Volt). The
new tank system holds wnough for 360 miles of gas powered driving after the 40 miles of battery powered juice runs out.
This is very true, especially since most people won't drive more than 40 miles in a day. The gas tank is just there as an escape in case you didn't charge your car the previous night (or weren't at home long enough to do so).
I suppose a lot of you who are so upset by this also think it is better to drive a large (fuel guzzling) SUV or truck with an 18-or-more gallon tank because it might get a few more miles per tank than, say, a small (fuel efficient) sedan with a much smaller tank. Fuel efficiency isn't solely based on the miles driven on one tank of gas. You have to divide that by the amount of gallons used to get your miles **per gallon** (keywords here) figure.
You know, it'd be nice if I only had to drive 40 miles per day...
My college is 25 miles away, my high school is 15 miles away.
I'm driving my puny 1999 Toyota Corolla, and honestly, it doesn't seem that bad. The thing is getting over 31mpg city.
I don't always get why they think the average American drives so little. Maybe I'm just naive, but not everyone lives in a big city, there are only so many large cities in America, and those people probably drive a bit less than 40 what with public transportation being available.
Then take into account the fact that you have to gain the energy for the car somehow, and with plugging it in, you're just going to be billed for the vehicle some other way, and many plants are still coal, which has quite a bit of a Carbon footprint...
The saddest thing about the Volt is that based on the ICE, we probably won't be getting carpool stickers :(
Geh, why are people so angry about this decision?
How often do you honestly go over 300 miles in one shot? hmm??
What is the majority of your driving? To work and back, right?. And most of that is 40 miles or less.
So you can go 40 miles without a single drop of gas. And if you have a 50 miles round trip, the first 40 is without gas, and the last 10 is with gas generating electricity. F
For the average person, this car will save thousands of dollars per year. I want a car exactly like this. Hell, I'll take a car that doesn't have a gas engine at all.
Instead of gasoline, how about natural gas GM. Yes Pickens (former oil tycoon) got to me. In 10 years we can eliminate 33% of our imported oil. Keep in mind this is the short term plan.
GM could start offering fill up stations at the dealerships. Now that is a business model! I see oil falling below 100 :)
Many of the people here don't understand much including the author of this article. For one thing this story is months old - here's the post from April 11th - http://gm-volt.com/2008/04/11/volt-gas-tank-shrunk-maximum-range-reduced/
The volt can be driven fully electric for 40 miles! If you can charge up at work, then you can go 80 miles without having to use a drop of gas. Just another hybrid? Hardly.
Engadget, your readers would be better served if you compared this car to other hybrids like the Prius. Then they could discern the differences for themselves. This car gets 50 MPG *after* it has been driven 40 miles on electricity.
It simply amazes me how GM has been our automotive leader, yet they can't fix the problems with this vehicle. First announced as a fully electric vehicle, nope can't pull that off. Now, we will toss in an engine and make it a hybrid. Why is it that two little start-ups in California can figure this out, innovate solutions to make it work, and our GM buddies can't. It is almost depressing.
I thought this was an all electric car. Either way leave it to GM to destroy a perfect good thing. People drive less than 40 miles a day am sure on average with people who don't drive, people who take the bus, etc that may be true. I had a buddy in Montana who would drive over 100 miles each way. I know people who drive 68 mile each way to NYC and that is just a suburb(an outter suburb but a suburb) of a major city. i can't imagine what people do out in the midwest or whatever. Plus don't forget with gas stations your car has unlimited range. If you have to stop and charge your car that would suck, no road trip in this car. I guess you will need gas stil. Something tells me that a slightly larger gas tank can't cost that much.
1) This isn't "saving" GM nearly any money
2) Who cares. Let's see how often do I make road trips... maybe once every two months... and how many times have I driven 6 hours from Cleveland to Chicago without stopping for food or to take a dump in between... ZERO Even if this car could go 600miles on a tank I would never drive that far anyhow... so again WHO CARES
If you want to real truth for this change it has to do with their engineering team hitting the 40miles per charge. A lot of marketing and the potentional success or failure rides on GM hitting that spec. If they fall short and hit 33 or 35, they can't tought the 80% of americans drive 40 miles or less to work.
From what I've been reading GM is struggling with hitting this number so every amount of weight they can shed will help. The biggest issue is up North. They need to hit 40miles per charge in mid Febuary in the rust belt with 12 inches of snow. (Batteries aren't huge fans of being cold)
"It simply amazes me how GM has been our automotive leader, yet they can't fix the problems with this vehicle. First announced as a fully electric vehicle, nope can't pull that off. Now, we will toss in an engine and make it a hybrid. Why is it that two little start-ups in California can figure this out, innovate solutions to make it work, and our GM buddies can't. It is almost depressing."
The Volt was never announced as a fully electric vehicle. Never. It didn't happen. You imagined it. If GM wanted to be like those two little start-ups, the could just jam 3 times as much battery power in the car. And remove the fuel tank. Then they could have a 120 mile range just like those two upstarts, instead of a 40 mile purely electric range with a 360 mile 'back-up' gasoline powered range. The concepts are completely different. Please try to understand what this car is all about.
"I thought this was an all electric car. Either way leave it to GM to destroy a perfect good thing."
Like I said to the previous poster, this was never an all electric car. Sure the powertrain is all electric, but a gasoline engine [i]can[/i] be used to charge the electric powertrain.
"People drive less than 40 miles a day am sure on average with people who don't drive, people who take the bus, etc that may be true. I had a buddy in Montana who would drive over 100 miles each way."
Then he will go 40 miles on electric power and the remaining 160 miles getting 45 MPG. A round trip total would work out to be about 56 MPG. Still pretty good. If he was allowed to recharge from work, it would be 75 MPG of gasoline.
"I know people who drive 68 mile each way to NYC and that is just a suburb(an outter suburb but a suburb) of a major city. i can't imagine what people do out in the midwest or whatever."
What I said about your Montana friend applies just the same here, only it would be even more beneficial for this person in NYC.
"Plus don't forget with gas stations your car has unlimited range. If you have to stop and charge your car that would suck, no road trip in this car. I guess you will need gas stil. Something tells me that a slightly larger gas tank can't cost that much."
This car has an unlimited range too. Remember, it is supposed to get 360 miles from a full tank of gas. This is part of the article. Did you not read? You will not have to stop and charge the batteries. The electrical power generated from the internal combustion engine will power the electric motors in real-time.
And no, a larger gas tank won't cost more, but it is unnecessary. 400 miles with a charge is a very reasonable range, and 360 from a fill is still OK. It's absolutely amazing, however, when you consider the fact that a lot of the drivers won't even burn that 8 gallon tank up over the span of a month.
Anyone who has had to overhaul the fuel system on a gas powered mower or generator left dormant w/out fuel preservative knows about the limited shelf life of this fuel. I suspect that the best reason for shrinking the gas tank is to force owners to refuel more often - many people could go months on the 600 mile tank and that's too long.
@ thatrotierkid
Um, what garage? Did you not read the second to last,and last paragraphs???
Tens of millions of people don't have a garage... they have "parking spaces" sans electrical outlets.
Respond to that.
The response is that these people should not buy this car. They are not part of the intended market. They will not see the promised benefit of this type of powertrain. It's really quite simple. They should buy something else or keep driving their current car. I don't see where GM is forcing people in apartments without electrical outlets at their parking to buy this car.
This is the most irrelevent article I've ever seen.
The benefit of the volt is how much fuel is uses, not how much fuel it carries!
Who cares how much fuel your car carries? Unless you're planning a solo trip across the Gobi desert you will just fill it up when it gets low.
This article makes it look we were promised a big range, but the technology couldn't deliver, so now we have to settle for a lower range.
In actual fact, the only "story" is that they've decided to fit it with a smaller fuel tank to save space. BIG DEAL!
Dude, they are just fitting it with a smaller fuel tank, it still works the same as normal, but they figured since it was so efficient there wasn't much point having it drag around a big tank.
The specs of the car are unchanged.
We need to rethink our assumptions about gas consumption. Reducing the size of the tank has everything to do with the instability of gas and very little or anything to do with size and weight.
Gas goes sour if not used after refining. Depending on conditions that could happen in a few months to a couple of years. The storage time includes the time spent in underground storage tanks. In extreme cases this can damage an engine.
Given the 40+ EV range of the Volt, which covers over 80% of people's daily mileage, some people might not not run through a 15 gallon tank in a year, and many might not run through a tank in two or three months. The smaller tank reduces the worry and concern about gas stability.
Reducing the size of the tank has everything to do with the instability of gas and very little or anything to do with size and weight.
Gas goes sour if not used after refining. Depending on conditions that could happen in a few months to a couple of years. The storage time includes the time spent in underground storage tanks. In extreme cases this can damage an engine.
Given the 40+ EV range of the Volt, which covers over 80% of people's daily mileage, some people might not not run through a 15 gallon tank in a year, and many might not run through a tank in two or three months. The smaller tank reduces the worry and concern about gas stability.
Yawn. I ride a motorcycle. I have to stop every 1-1.5 hours for gas.
It may be hard to believe, but there are worse things in life.
Everyone needs to remember that this is not GM's only hybrid. They have several models. This is just revolutionary technology. It wont work for everyone. If you dont like it, dont buy it. But it will still get 100 MPG+ way better then other Hybrids on the market now.
The yellow Dodge on the main story page is virtually is not completely identical to a Lotus Europa. Check out Lotus' web site.
Living in a VERY rural state, I know at least fifty people who drive a lot more than 40 miles a day. My father, for one, drives 90 miles for work round-trip. My brother-in-law puts so many miles on his car in one day for work, it's almost unimaginable. I'm not even going to count the farmers; their mileage is astronomical. I don't plan on seeing ANY of these on the road here. And unfortunately, many of us DO need our pickups, no matter how "environmentally irresponsible" they are to some of you highbrow city dwellers. I'd like to see you pull a horse trailer fully loaded with four horses, and gear, in a Prius.