Ask Engadget: What's the optimal DVD archival solution?
By Darren Murph 
posted July 10th 2008 9:00PM
posted July 10th 2008 9:00PM
This week's Ask Engadget question is a bit on the specific side, but it's one we've heard asked time and time again. Thus, we figured it was time to finally get it out in the open for you readers to debate."I have an extensive DVD library that I would like to archive on a network drive and be able to access via my PS3, menus and all. I am currently using TVersity to stream videos from my PC to the console. I've seen walk-throughs for archiving DVDs, but I haven't seen anything that will present these via a DLNA server (to my PS3) with their original menus intact so that you can access special features such as commentary tracks and featurettes. I am not even sure that it is possible to navigate the menus via the PS3 remote. Any recommended solutions out there?"
Can't you just hear the hopelessness in poor Ron's voice? Throw the guy a bone, will ya? And while you're at it, throw our highly sophisticated email sorter a question of your own at ask at engadget dawt com.
oh, i would just forget about keeping the menus and junk, not worth it.
Your suggestion's like buying a shirt & cutting out the pockets because the pen you're using *today* doesn't fit properly. Maybe you or someone else in the house wants those additional functions.
Example: Sometimes we watch movies w/ captions, sometimes we don't. Most of the programs mentioned above strip those too.
DVD Decrypter + DVD43 to get the security stripped.
I tried this same approach & ended up abandoning it. Too labor intensive. But Decrypter allows for removing any part of the DVD you want.
I Just rip and convert to XVID/DD 5.1 (no menu). I'm unsure if you could possibly rip the dvd into a DIVX format and have the menus be converted to DIVX menu format...
Unfortunately, Until the hackers are able to open up the graphics card portion of the PS3 on Linux, there won't be many home brew solutions to expand the media capabilties of the PS3....
If you have a different machine, like a PC, hacked AppleTV, etc, you could just directly rip the DVDs into VIDEO_TS folders ( or ISO images) thereby preserving the original disc structure/menus/etc and run them through any media player software.
I use DVD Decrypter to rip DVDs to .iso in full - so I have all the menus, extras, etc.
I play them back using XBMC. Once it got .iso support it was a no-brainer.
DVD Decrypter is becoming dated though and I am just actually testing out tonight a handful of ripping tools looking for one as simple as DVD Decrypter that "just works" but supports all the latest copy protection schemes.
It would be nice to stop using XBMC on the xbox - it's noisy and a bit bulky, so I'm hoping all the different ports (OS X, Windows, Linux) gain a lot of ground and become options soon too.
Just get DVD43 (free) or AnyDVD ($). Both install as a tray utility and are updated regularly to track the latest copy protection. Then you can keep using DVD Decrypter since it will see an unprotected DVD.
"It would be nice to stop using XBMC on the xbox - it's noisy and a bit bulky"
Well, the bit of bulkiness is there and, AFAIK, there's little you can do about it.
But to annihilate the noise, you can replace the stock fan with a silent 80mm one. Cost is about $10, is used this: http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-nexus80mmrealsilentcasefan.htm, but any quiet fan will do, really.
There's a little DIY to do, but I did it and I'm far from being a DIY person, and believe me, it makes a world of difference.
Details here: http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/80mm-fan.php
Also, check that you're running a newer copy of XBMC. There must be better power management going on, because mine has been running quieter that it did about a year ago.
If you want to PROPERLY archive your DVDs...
1) Buy a large drive. I bought a 1TB Buffalo NAS for under $300.
2) Download DVDFab.
3) Rip pure DVD files.
This will create absolutely, 100% pure DVD rips. You can even rip just the movie alone if you'd like, and they can be burned later for backups or what have you. It is the perfect backup program.
Hmm.. Pochi's suggestion here sounds the most simple and the most promising. And would the PS3 upconvert without any problems? I'd love to rip certain DVDs I really like and then just keep the original discs in storage.
I'd also like to get rid of a lot of DVDs and replace them w/ Blu-ray discs as they are released (especially my TV Shows - 24, Lost, Smallville). Those are probably going to be too big to back up and keep on a hard drive so we'll have this conversation again for backing up our blu-ray collections in a few years.
Yeah, I spent a LOT OF TIME researching this for my own archiving purposes. I tried literally a dozen or so methods before I found DVDFab and fell in love.
I don't own a PS3, but my friend who does says it can play true DVD files (the ones that are actually on your standard DVDs, VOB files). So this leads me to believe it will upconvert like it would any normal DVD. Since these are true DVDs, only hosted on a HDD and not optical media, it should act like a normal DVD.
Think of DVDFab as a program that does absolutely nothing but perfectly copy the DVD to your hard drive. It can compress DVD9 (dual layer 4.7GB+ DVDs) to DVD5 (single layer 4.7GB or smaller DVDs) for some space conservation as well, but I just rip them all at DVD9 to ensure that when I watch a movie I am watching it without a single pixel compressed our out of place.
So generally I choose to rip the main movie only (I could care less about extras) with the best audio track available (usually the 5.1 DTS) and all English subtitles (they take up almost no space). Averages about 5GB a movie (some bigger, some smaller). Then I just pop on my media center PC, click the file I want to play, and it starts right up on my TV. Looks beautiful, too. Better than a standard 480P DVD player since the PC's resolution essentially automatically upconverts the "DVD," as it were, for you.
And with a NAS, you can watch the movie from any DVD playing device in the house capable of accessing the network too (all the laptops and desktops here, in my case). It's great, I can allow my movies to be streamed anywhere I'm at now. It's the purest and easiest way to do things, I think.
i would want to see a program that can rip and encode in one step, saves me the time in front of the computer
PIMPSTREAM, an application originally made for the PSP works as a DNLA media server. its watt I use. message typed on a DS3 on PS3. SOOPERGOOMAN187
for rip & encode google winnydows
I am using Ubuntu 8.04 LTS with MediaTomb. After a bit of configuration, the PS3 picks it up and pays back audio, video and photo without any problem, and it does it all wirelessly. It's coming from an old Optiplex SX280. It's a pretty good setup and the kit was 90% free.
Personally, I'd dump trying to use the PS3 and instead invest in a Popcorn Hour A-100. They're only about $179.
Then use DVD Shrink to rip your films (still with all the menus and uncompressed) to .iso format. You can either stick a HDD (up to 750GB) in the Popcorn Hour itself or stream over your network from your PC/NAS.
Just out of curiousity, just how many DVDs are we talking about here?
The effort to get all your DVDs on the network, stored on a RAID drive to ensure your efforts aren't suddenly lost, just seems like a lot of work and money.
Once your collection is digital it is portable. The effort is worth the work! Do you use mp3's at all? Why? That's a lot of work to take CD's and rip them...
Right, because you can take it on a portable player, burn a backup copy, take a clip using editing software, watch it in multiple rooms using a network, share with others (illegal and I don't condone, but people do it), etc.
Think about it. Worth the time.
the popcornhour - www.popcornhour.com - can play DVDs straight from ISOs over the network, i know you wanted to do it from your PS3, but the PCH is so cheap and handles this solution so well, it might be worth looking into.
I agree with Rich. Get yourself Popcorn Hour A-100. Plays everything you throw at it... DVDs in ISO or TS format but also all other video formats including High Definition (MKV, DIVX, MP4, Quick Time, etc)... even High Definition clips from my AVCHD camcorder straight from the SD card without any need for conversion. It will also upconvert all your content. You can plug in HDD (internal or external USB), or a USB CDROM, or Flash Card readers... can you tell I'm happy with it?
Rip your DVDs or ISOs to retain original quality and store on internal HDD or external HDD or a NAS or a networked PC... the choice is then yours.
The most versatile device on the market for the money... hands down.
Cheers.
Well the biggest for this on PS3 is that it uses FAT32, and the biggest file size that it recognises is 4GB.
Big problem for what the original poster asked for. Game over.
Well the biggest with your suggestion is that you don't read.
His not wanting to store the files on the PS3. As you may have noticed every one is talking about streaming the files. Even when they suggested PS3 Linux, still would be mounting a remote share over a network.
The big problem you'll run into with keeping menus intact on the PS3 is that the PS3's streaming media interface offers you no way to navigate from point to point on the menu screen.
You can always rip a VOB straight from the DVD, and stream it over the network using a DLNA-compatible server like TVersity. You can even open the VTS_01_0.VOB file that (usually) displays the main menu. But once you get to the menu, you can't do anything. The software interface for streaming video is different from the BD/DVD interface, and is simply not designed to let you navigate to different points on the screen and select options. So at this point, I'd say hoping for a good firmware update is sadly your best bet on PS3.
Don't forget to catalog those discs. Get something like disclib which can read your discs and put them into a database. It works great for all kinds of things. Best of all it's free. It comes from lyrasoftware.com
I like creating ISOs using RipItForMe which is basicly a wizard for both DVDDecrypter and DVDShrink.
It allows you to use the advanced ripping features of both programs to backup your DVDs.
I've backed up all my DVDs to ISO and can now browse them over the network on my HDTV set with XBMC.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/RipIt4Me
http://www.mrbass.org/dvdrip/
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/dvd_rippers/dvd_shrink.cfm
BTW, if any one has another couple 500GB harddrives around I could really use it. :)
"BTW, if any one has another couple 500GB harddrives around I could really use it."
That's because you didn't encode your files...this is the biggest draw back to leaving in ISO or VOB format. I have the entire seinfeld collection (roughly 8 volumes of 4 disks each with about 5 episodes = 160 GB) Mines under 50 GB because I encoded the VOB files to x264. Looks just like DVD quality but 1/4 the size.
That's why the solution is more complicated that people are making it sound. Plus streaming a VOB isn't quite right with seeking and other features because it's "faking" like its an MPEG file, and it's not.
I can't say much about how to use a PS3 to do this, but why bother when you can take an old PC gathering dust and load MythTV (Linux) on it for use as a media server. I used machines as old as Celeron 500 Mhz to do this. Install a huge HD, rip your DVDs to ISO images, and play them directly. Supports all menus and features. Has nice menus for selecting movies, plug in an IR receiver and program your learning remote.
See http://coryhammer.com/tips.php if you want more details.
I've been struggling to find an answer to this question for months. I ended up using a combination of a few solutions but I stopped archiving my discs when I realized that I was missing things like surround sound and seek support. I need a FULL solution like the one the submitter wants. Ideally through the PS3 since it touts so many media capabilities. Would be nice to have ONE device hooked to my TV and not three or four.
To the poster that asked how many DVDs we are talking about here... I haven't counted recently, but I am roughly estimating ~ 150-200 movies in our DVD library (accumulated over the years since DVD first came out). Add to that about 50 or so DVDs of TV series (Babylon 5, SG-1, Dark Angel, BSG, etc), and it becomes unwieldly to store and manage all the discs. We have a Sony disc changer, but it takes forever to find and change discs with it (at forget about cataloging: most discs you need to manually enter titles, which you then lose if things get shuffled around or you have a power outage)... it is easier just to load discs manually than use that.
I really would rather not have yet another box attached to my TV (PS3, Tivo, DVD changer) when I am already using the PS3 enjoyably in viewing torrented shows. As I stated already, it is sounding like I will need to drop the idea of accessing the DVD menus and just go with ripping individual titles from the disc. So again, what would be the easiest one-shot solution for grabbing a title with an appropiate audio stream, and cataloging it with title, description and artwork?
Ron,
Have you considered an mx-3000 with the DMX 3000 software? Basically it is a touchscreen remote that, when loaded with the proper software will give you a cover-art interface for choosing all your movies. I have a sony dvd-changer and went thought the same headache. It's worth checking out.
Here is the link to the official MX-3000 site:
http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=34
And to the DMX software:
http://triplebsoftware.com/DMX-3000/index.htm
And to the place where you'll need to go once you get an MX-3000 to learn how to program it:
http://www.remotecentral.com
It is pricey(ebay is your friend), but worth it IMHO not just for the DVD changer control, but also the whole Home Theater control. It also does variables (for state tracking), RF (no more need for line of sight on your remote), and allows custom graphics (see the final link for free files). Though I've since moved on to Window MCE with the My Movie plugin, the above provided a great "wife-friendly" solution for many years.
-aedile-
ok, i know he wants menus and streaming but... more as a reply to the others: I have about 150 DVDs from my collection that I have used Handbrake to rip and encode; I specify on handbrake a max size of 2GB and to include subtitles (because I like them) and Handbrake outputs to MP4 that my PS3 understands, I purchased a 320GB HDD from directron.com for about $110 - replace the internal drive on the ps3 and load all my DVD into it; now I just go thru PS3 menu and find all my movies, once on the ps3 you can edit fields, I use 'album' field to type the genre of movie and sort them by 'Album' - no menu, no streaming, but quality is excelent and subtitles are there, which i couldnt do with divx.
Handbrake is especially good if you have a computer that's dual or quad core. It knows how to split the encoding across them to speed up the process.
Then, put the files on a QNAP NAS to serve them like this: http://www.qnap.com/images/products/Application/TS109AP08.htm
Now this is a REAL solution. Shows you brought your A-game. Though, you did get taken on the HDD. You can get 500 GB+ for under $100...
Has anyone tried to use a gaming adapter or wireless ethernet bridge, or even powerline adapters for the popcorn hour a100? I would think the wireless would hurt quality. I have had a few people tell me that powerline ethernet adapters work well, but i don't know anyone that has used it with the a100
Currently I use DVDFab. I have tried many DVD rippers and this one works the best.
FTW... ISO files, Virtual CD, and your favorite DVD player software.
Here's what I 'hear' works real nicely: :-)
1. Ripit4me (who got shut down)
2. DVD Decrypter (who got shut down)
3. DVD Shrink (who got shut down, notice a theme here?)
4. Virtual CD 6 or later
5. Win DVD 9
The whole process takes about 15 minutes to get a playable ISO file that can be inserted into a virtual DVD drive.
Ditch the PS3, get the Popcorn Hour and hook up a Drobo with DroboShare as your NAS. That's my plan, anyway.
One word. Kaleidescape. It's the best hands down AND it's legal, if you can afford it. Even though I install them, I can't afford it. So, the next best thing for me is a Vista Media Center with My Movies software and AnyDVD. You can even rip and archive BluRay's now as long as you have the full MyMovies license and purchase Arcsoft's Total Home Theatre software.
What I do:
-> Mac The Ripper 3.0r14m
-> Squared 5 - MPEG Streamclip 1.9.1
-> Netgear ReadyNAS Duo RND2150
It works fantastic. The MPEG4 output of Streamclip is 1.8Mbps SD DVD quality. I am slowly working through my DVD collection the only issue right now is I can not get the HTTP streaming working so the iPhones and iPods in my house can work directly from the NAS.
Best solution that I use...
I have a decent HD media center I built... so i rip the dvd to iso... mount the movie whenever i want to watch it. Its been working great ever since MCE2k5.
WHATS THE BEST WAY TO BACKUP BLU-RAY to the hard drive? Id like to back them up to the network drive so they can be accessed thru out the house via laptops, extenders, and media center pcs. Anyway to compress a blu-ray image?
ALSO
Are there any media centers out there (likely linux-based) that allow for mass backup/retrieval? A media center that would recognize a movieDVD as new(meaning not currently backed up) and back it up automagically? From a media center interface i would love to be able to surf thru all my DVDs and watch whichever one catches my eye.
I thought about ripping all of my DVD's to harddrive for instant access over the computer. The idea just sounds awesome.
Then, after looking at all of the solutions, it seems I would be wasting my time when I read about this:
http://www.roku.com/
Its a 100 dollar Netflix player, network connected. 10,000 tv and movie shows available now. They might not have some unique movies that you end up having in your collection, but how many of those would you really have? Maybe rip only your unique ones?
Anyway, I'm sure they will have like 100,000 movies available in a few years, and it will all be in HD. Way more movies than anyone I know would have in their home library.
Just a thought.
I used MyMovies in Media Center for a long time, then decided to same some space and switched over to MKV because it was the only container that supported "all" formats. I use the tool AutoMKV, which isn't perfect, but it's free and it does the job once you figure out the few small bugs. The main problem I have with it is that you can only choose a maximum of 2 audio streams or just take all of them. It's fast and the videos look and work great though and I was able to add the .mkv extension to the registry and get them to play in Media Center :)
I have two 5tb esata boxes with about 450 blu ray movies that I run from my pc to my tv via cat5. Using a the TVIX 6500 allows for perfect playback
Johnny B-
I thought the same thing about his drive purchase, as I just picked up a 640 from same outfit for 90 bucks, But he is talking about 2.5" drive to go into his PS3. those puppies are not as cheap...
(xbmc, popcorn hour owner)
OK, I have a PS3 and a NAS that will hold the movies. I created a .iso file by ripping with DVD Fab Platinum. The PS3 doesn't recognize the .iso so how do I fix that? Can I just rename .iso to something else or does it have to be converted?
rip and tversity
rip w/ ur fav s/w and TVERSITY
People... STFU about the xcrap... It's all about the PS TRIPLE!