Alright, this is getting a little silly. First it was Gibson claiming that Rock Band and Guitar Hero
violated a patent covering "simulating a musical performance," and now Konami is suing Harmonix, Viacom, and MTV Game because Rock Band allegedly violates a similar set of patents covering "simulated musical instruments" and "musical rhythm-based matching games." Filed in good ol' Marshall, the suit seeks the big green in damages and an order preventing the sale of Rock Band's instruments. Interestingly, Gamasutra noticed last year that the fine print on Activision's Guitar Hero homepage says the game is covered by the Konami patents in question, so it appears that Activision's managed to reach a licensing agreement with Konami -- which, if true, doesn't necessarily bode well for Harmonix and company. No one's commenting yet, but we hear Harmonix's lawyers are furiously punching in the old up-up-down-down trying to get this to go away.
Read - Wired article on the lawsuit
Read - Gamasutra article
Read - Konami's complaint (PDF)
Read - Konami patent covering simulated musical instruments (PDF)
Read - Konami patent covering musical arcade machines (PDF)
Read - Konami patent covering musical game machines (PDF)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
why not the LS2LS7? @ Jul 11th 2008 1:24AM
Shoulda seen this coming. Friend who worked at Activision told me they had acquired rights to the patents a while back.
Activision is bound and determined to pursue every action possible to be #1 in the rhythm game market except for actually making a good game and pleasing the customer. They got all their moves out of the RIAA playbook.
Chris @ Jul 11th 2008 10:17AM
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A, Start.... Problem Solved!
Andy Anonymous @ Jul 11th 2008 1:27AM
This isn't going to hurt Rock Band any. Konami is going the "cease and desist" route as a scare tactic to get Viacom to fork over the cash. If there's merit to this suit, Viacom will do just that in a meeting room somewhere, and all will be well.
ManekiNeko @ Jul 11th 2008 3:49AM
Nooooo sympathy for Viacom after what it did to YouTube and its users. None at all.
John @ Jul 11th 2008 1:33AM
I thought patents involved the way you do something. Like, you would patent "Electric current through metal filament to create light", not "Using electricity to generate radiation"
coolblue @ Jul 11th 2008 4:25AM
Well you would think that wouldn't you, as it is logical and sensible. But no, it seems that more and more patents are being given out for basic ideas rather than specific ways to make an idea work. Amazons 1 click is a perfect example. No one else can produce a 1 click ordering application no matter how it is coded. It would be like Dyson Patenting the bagless vaccuum and no one else being able to come up with a different way to vaccuum without using a bag. The patent system needs fixing fast before innovation is stopped altogether.
Charles Han @ Jul 11th 2008 1:33AM
This is how you screw up ideas to grow and technologies to be innovated.
Ito @ Jul 11th 2008 1:35AM
As much as I think this is stupid, Konami has just gotten the shaft here. They've been doing the guitar/drums music games for years, I only wish they had the idea to release them in counsel form like they did for DDR (although all the new DDRs suck ass)
andres @ Jul 11th 2008 2:55AM
console?
eric @ Jul 11th 2008 4:22AM
@andres
http://wotsuhthedeal.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/drummania_set.jpg
whowhatme @ Jul 11th 2008 1:36AM
wow, that diagram looks very familiar......
Matt @ Jul 11th 2008 1:45AM
Fuck Viacom.
neuralien @ Jul 11th 2008 10:32AM
Wow, that's a pretty constructive comment there.
Wwhat @ Jul 11th 2008 1:28PM
Actually it is, makes us feel a group and in agreement and that we are aware of what viacom is about, or should I say sumner redstone is about.
Once a group we can feel confident and let our feelings be known to viacom eventually.
Thizz @ Jul 11th 2008 1:59AM
Its kinda true, DrumMania and GuitarFreaks have been out for almost 10 years. Konami just didn't understand American music tastes enough to make a successful game.
Harmonix, Red Octane and Activision have been just stealing all Koniami's music games and putting american music in it.
YpoCaramel @ Jul 11th 2008 2:54AM
Well, more than that. They packaged it into an expensive band fantasy / simulation, where Konami's games were more based around single instruments and set songs. They are also more arcade oriented.
That said, when Rock Band came out, I saw the drum and went, hell, I've been playing this for years at arcades. I had just assumed Activision had gotten all the necessary patents.
EdgeOne @ Jul 11th 2008 7:38AM
I remember playing the arcade version of Guitar Hero (which I'm guessing was "GuitarFreaks") at an Arcade in Vegas during a CES - never saw it before that. It was a cool experience and years before Guitar Hero, so I can see their suit having merit. But to imagine a world without Rock Band is a sad place indeed. Make it right guys and lets all keep rockin'!
dan2600 @ Jul 11th 2008 9:13AM
They did release the games for consoles, but due to the horrible music selection, they didn't do to well stateside.
As Konami lost the law suite against pump it up, but won the case against roxor this one is up in the air.
Personally, I'm tired of American Companies copying Japanese games ideas, and making crappy counter-parts, guitar hero takes everything fun out of guitar freaks, and the only "plus" side is the music is recognizable (ill stop short of saying it is good).
As they did with the DDR dance pads, red-octane covers there ass before copying hardware design. Harmonix didn't so i think they owe Konami.
TRU3L3GEND @ Jul 11th 2008 2:04AM
Im all for Viacom getting sued
collegekid13 @ Jul 11th 2008 2:07AM
i'm sueing engadget for useing text to communicate information
(which i patented um, 36.5 sec ago)
teej @ Jul 11th 2008 4:07PM
sue Al G0R3, creatorz of thee internets!
peacefulpony @ Jul 11th 2008 2:13AM
Im not a big fan of patents stifling innovation but... it's hard to imagine all these music games without Konami inventing/popularizing the genre. They obviously missed the full potential outside of Japan and on consoles.
alfaphlex @ Jul 11th 2008 2:28AM
Of all the patent suing nonsense that's occured in the past, I think this one is very valid. Both Konami's software and hardware package were blatantly copied. Inspiration is one thing, but taking all of it and slapping US music on it is just ripping off.
Anyway, Viacom is no slouch when it comes to taking legal action for even the tiniest copyright violation, so they either taste their own medicine or gtfo.
diulei @ Jul 11th 2008 2:29AM
Frankly, I'm surprised it took this long.
Kurian @ Jul 11th 2008 2:40AM
Suing for some form of physical action based patent is just ridiculous.
Haikibutsu @ Jul 11th 2008 2:40AM
The future is looking grim for musical games.
I am a big fan of DDR. My sister has Guitar Hero, i don't really like it that much, but i'll play it if she wants me too.
Seeing as how "Hottest Party" has no japanese music and has that stupid gimmick (I own a wii, and the wii has no gimmicks. Its the games that will use the controller as an innovative control, or a gimmick).
DDR Disney Channel Edition: ...
And, although this isn't DDR, a "Dancing With the Stars" game.
In the Groove got sued by Konami.
and Rockband plus Guitar Hero are kind of seperate. They aren't really int he same league as DDR in my opinion, The audience differs. But, honestly, the only think that will save the hyper j-pop style bemani series in America is releasing unedited (other than translated) versions of Beatmania and Pop'n, and a guitar hero controller compatible Guitar Freaks, and a rock band drumset compatible Drummania. Drummania and Guitar Freaks can come together like at arcades, to make a rockband like thing.
Sorry, its late at night, i don't have good grammar at night.
lol @ Jul 11th 2008 2:36PM
Well, the flaw in your statement is that you keep J-pop blah blah blah in the description. That's what KILLED ddr's US releases.
The console versions were successful in comparison to the arcade iterations of SuperNOVA. Why? Music you can recognize. While the quality of steps has all but improved since the heydays of Max and Extreme, they manage to succeed because newbies want to play songs they know, or at the very least, songs they can understand.
I've watched person after person play that stupid Helen cover of Toxic, not because it's such an awesome song, but because it's "Britney Spears" and it's a song that they recognize. It's easy to get people to open up to instrumental stuff if you pad it with radio music.
That's why Guitar Hero succeeded. Who wouldn't want to (pretend to) rock out to a classic rock song? People are less likely to want to wail to Across the Nightmare or Destiny Lovers.
As for this...it's not that I don't think Konami has merit in the suit (for ONCE), but it's that they're fighting someone way bigger than them. Roxor couldn't even AFFORD to keep up, but Viacom's pockets are deeper than Konami's.
Seanross @ Jul 11th 2008 2:52AM
I'm still not understanding why companies take so long to file a patent violation suits. The game was announced months before it came out, they could have filed a lawsuit then. The game came out in the fall of 07, once again, another opportunity to file a suit.
They're not looking to protect their patent, they're looking for a way to cash in without doing any of the work. Granted yes, I know the aim of any company is make profit, but their business plan failed (in the US Market that is). Somebody else came along and did it better.
Market Data @ Jul 11th 2008 4:34AM
A company shouldn't lose its right to protect its intellectual property just because it failed to turn the product into a commercial powerhouse with effective marketing, product development, etc.
Regarding the delay in filing suit: lawsuits cost lots of money. Law firms will easily start billing tens of thousands of dollars per day during a litigation. It would be irresponsible to file suit before you can economically justify the litigation.
Wwhat @ Jul 11th 2008 1:32PM
Actually I'm pretty sure you must use your concept in a product within a certain time after patenting, and in fact if you wait too long before filling a suit for infringement the judge can declare the suit non-valid because of the delay, it has happened before and the lawmakers and judges are familiar with the shenanigans of deliberately waiting to make sure they get a large sum or a large settlement, and it won't fly (hopefully).
skulldriveshaft @ Jul 11th 2008 3:57AM
Over the past 20 years arcades have been outlawed, banned, guidelined, over licensed, and cock blocked in every legal way here in North America.
Arcades are slowly disappearing, and thats gonna make kids more unstable, and lower their already poor social skills.
I'm really surprised that Konami still hasn't latched onto consoles.
Konami turned it's back on North America, and they got stabbed.
Then of course the lawyers said, hey, we gots patents on them there 'nstrument games.
Konami gets some cash, and everyone plays stairway to heaven to eternity ever after.
Damage @ Jul 11th 2008 1:42PM
Not really, but their efforts didn't catch on as well as hoped. Konami did release Beatmania (AKA Bemani) for PS2. Heck, I have the OG DJ Controller for it too. It hasn't done nearly as well as DDR though.
The Guitarfreaks though, they should've sued and released as soon as Guitar Heroes/Rockband Caught on here stateside. But then again, with those games, it's the music that counts more than the plasticky instruments.
Bandit5317 @ Jul 11th 2008 3:59AM
...left, right, b, a, start
K1NG J @ Jul 11th 2008 6:35AM
Up, Up..Down Down. Hilarious!!! :D
Yeah they need to get this Situated. Konami come on play nice...simulated tunes. lol
Phoenix @ Jul 11th 2008 6:45AM
Well EVERYONE is fucked now.
I just patented the patent. Looks like every innovating company ever owes me money...
Big Wizz @ Jul 11th 2008 9:17AM
The good 'ol Konami code.
you forgot A, B, B, A, though.
SoreThumb @ Jul 11th 2008 9:18AM
It took Konami long enough. It's not like they were making money during the inception of Guitar Hero (back when Harmonix made it) and the subsequent Rock Band year.
I hope Konami makes the $$$ it lost by not releasing Guitarfreaks with AC/DC.
youngcalihottie @ Jul 11th 2008 9:42AM
i saw this coming a year ago!
these games obviously ripped off the bemani series.
konami came up with all this stuff 10 years ago!
...but wait, didnt nintendo come up with the power pad 10 years before konami?
lets D.D.R.
Michael VanDyk @ Jul 11th 2008 12:09PM
That is so true, the power pad was around years before Konami ever made such a thing. So Konami, where is Nintendo's money? There just like every other person in the world, trying to get something for nothing. They made a few games, they flopped, and now want to make some of their lost money back by trying to sue because someone else made a good game that was a hit and has a similar concept. Leave it alone Konami and lose the jealousy.
UHUH @ Jul 11th 2008 11:02AM
Cool. Viacom needs to be sued
Adam Williamson @ Jul 11th 2008 12:10PM
I notice that no-one's yet mentioned there may be a get-out clause here; MTV already has a U.S. patent relating to drum-based music games thanks to its mostly-forgetten MTV Drumscape game (Google it for more details). This was widely held in the Bemani fan community to be why Konami never officially released GF/DM into North American arcades (in comparison to most of the other Bemani games). It'd be interesting to see if they try and use that angle.
Seanross @ Jul 11th 2008 1:42PM
In other words.... Ah-Haaaa!
lol @ Jul 11th 2008 2:41PM
see, I would agree with you here, but if Konami is using that "rhythm-matching" element, then drumscape doesn't hold up. You don't have to follow anything in drumscape, you basically go in there and do what the hell you want...which is probably why it wasn't so successful.
Geez, what's next...Sega sues Konami over Hottest Party; copied Samba de Amigo
Anonymous @ Jul 11th 2008 1:57PM
It's about freaking time. Activision/Harmonix has been giving Konami the shaft for years after ripping off Guitar Freaks and Drummania to make boring, inferior clones.
I hope Konami takes them for all they're worth AND is awarded the rights to the GH/RB franchises. As the INVENTORS of the music genre, they deserve it.
Andy Anonymous @ Jul 11th 2008 4:25PM
Uh huh. By that logic, Nintendo should be given the rights to Sonic, Jak & Daxter, and every other platforming title, while EA should be awarded the rights to Final Fantasy and every other RPG, since they own Origin now.
Dramus @ Jul 12th 2008 12:41AM
Well actually whoever made Parapa the Rappa invented the music game genre. Also, I don't know how Konami fanboys can claim that Guitar Hero and Rock Band are inferior, considering how they kicked Konami's game's collective ass in the only quantitative measures of a game's quality, popularity and sales. You may personally like the games better, but to rant on about how they're inferior like we all should know just makes you look like a moron. Who likes JPop. Which is redundant.
Turtle @ Jul 11th 2008 3:42PM
"Simulating a musical performance."
Does this mean they're going to sue the Dave Matthews Band next?