BlackBerry Thunder first-ever live pics unearthed
By Joshua Topolsky 
posted Jul 13th 2008 5:07PM
posted Jul 13th 2008 5:07PM
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Whats a tactile keyboard, how is it differant from iPhones?
You should have read the story, hit the read link!
Quote:
"Tactile Response - when you press on the Thunder's screen, it pushes in "just" a little bit (the whole screen is sort of like a big button) and you get immediate "real" feedback - you hear an audible clickety sound, and can feel a buzz in your finger where you actually pressed on the display."
So there you go :P
a tactile keyboard responds back when pressed down. an iphone keyboard is just flat. you can't push down and it wouldn't push back up.
people are still getting this wrong. the screen has to lift at certain points to feel like real keys and would be able to be pushed down to be closer to what a real tactile keyboard would feel like. I still think this is a step in the right direction though. hopefully others follow.
I cannot foresee a day when we'll have a digital display that can physically form buttons on it when required and eliminate it when it's not needed- the available materials for engineering such a product, and the reality of screen distortion due to friction and wear, can never be eliminated; atleast not the latter problem.
The only way to get around the problem of wear is to have a screen that can organically renew itself, sort of like our epidermis. We'll have created artificial life meanwhile.
@ CarrotAndStick: Ever heard of Nokia Morph Concept? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-gTobCJHs&fmt=18
CarrotAndStick - Checkout Sony Navitus universal remote. Tactile feedback is unreal, you never had to look on the screen to know where the bottons were.
So all this does is make a mechanical click noise and vibrate? The problem people had with the iPhone keyboard was that you had to look at it to type because the buttons were all smooth. This is going to be the same thing. The screen is smooth and flat so youll still have to look at it. Only difference is it makes a mechanical click and depresses. what is wrong with a software clicking noise to confirm that the key has been accepted. This is people getting excited about something because it is said to compete with the iPhone. Everyone hates the iPhone now a days but this is not a fix to the problem that people were saying the iPhone had.
Chris, Reread the definition of tactile keyboard. If that doesn't help, she the succession of comments above yours. If that doesn't help, consider wearing a helmet from now on.
The word "tactile" just means "sense of touch". So a "tactile keyboard" could really mean anything.
In this case, the "tactile keyboard" is referring to their attempt to provide touch feedback when typing on the touchscreen. As with some other touchscreeen smartphones, the Thunder's screen will emit a light vibration to confirm a key press was received by the touchscreen. Apparently, in contrast to other devices, this vibration will be somewhat localized to where you touched. Also, supposedly the whole screen will be sort of a "button" and will indent and "click" when you press it.
Now of course the holy grail of all of this is to create an artificial tactile response on a touchscreen that a normal person cannot differentiate from a real physical button. And NOT just "virtual" buttons in a fixed square grid pattern, but completely dynamic and adjustable "buttons" that would emulate the different shapes and locations of on-screen controls. I'm sure we'll be a lot closer to this in 3-4 years from now than anything RIM or Apple has now..
I have the perfect song for this phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuxRWXisUQ
..."I don't wanna ever love another,You'll always be my Thunder...."
I don't think a persons fingers really require bumps as feedback. I'm sure just the proper electrical stimulation is close enough to think there are actual bumps. I've never used a haptic keyboard so I don't know what it feels like. I'm just certain the human skin can be fooled, so to speak, to think there are real keys. When laboratories to experiments on mice with electrodes attached to their brain, it's good enough to make mice experience various sensations. The proper feedback on skin should be sufficient. I'd like to see a system like that. I'm sure they could arrange something for blind people that use braille to read yet would work for sighted people as well.
The Thunder keyboard is a nice 3D replica of a keyboard. Although it won't do more than an iPhone keyboard it looks a heck of a lot better than a lame 2D look. That and the wide horizontal arrangement seems they have something going for them. Of course, it should be quite easy to duplicate the look, but not the feel. I like it. RIM could even have a squishy sound with a keypress and that might even help with auditory feedback.
At some point keyboards are not going to be necessary in most conditions if voice input can be improved. Maybe the handset processors are not up to that task now but in a year or so they should be.
@ryan
Just saying it sounds like a solution to a problem that doesnt really need to be fixed. Is it that hard to type on something because it doesnt depress and vibrate as you press it. More things to wear out on it.
The complaint people have with the iPhone was you have to look to type which slows you down. This doesnt solve that problem which virtual keyboards have. How does this help improve anything.
How does your comment help? I didnt insult you at all. I can spell see just fine. Unlike some commenters.
"Research In Motion's upcoming touchscreen phone -- the infamous Thunder -- will feature a virtual keyboard so realistic you'll swear you're sitting in front of 1986 IBM Model M. CrackBerry says "reliable sources" have told them that the device's screen will utilize a number of advanced technologies to create such an effect, including localized haptic feedback, which allows the screen to be literally pushed in while rewarding you with a vibration and click sound,"
@Saad Rabia
@Erik
Read what I wrote again. Nokia's concept is a pretty cartoon, nowhere near reality, and the Sony TouchEngine remote is still a flat normal LCD with indirect tactile feedback.
All those dreams of LCD screens raising portions of itself to form buttons is just imaginary, and will continue to be so, for a long time coming. Current physics and material science does not permit a screen to be a temporary button AND remain optically defect-free, for too long.
just waht i was waiting for! lookn good!
Sweet!
Finally some interesting iPhone competitor.
Well, you want an iPhone killer? here it is: Samsung Omnia.
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Samsung-OMNIA-Preview-review-r_1973.html
With all love to the outdated iPhone 3G. :)
The Omnia's not even out yet, dunce.
And it's running Windows Mobile, which is about 10 years behind Mac OS iPhone.
Isn't it telling that WinMo has to be hacked to high heaven in order to be semi-usable? (i.e. TouchFLO 3D, Omnia)
No serious iPhone competition will come from any Windows Mobile device for years to come.
Android, however, is interesting. Really interesting.
dude seriously, did you just defend the iphone by saying windows mobile had to be hacked? the iphone was the king of 'needed to be hacked' even so much so that people like the woz even jailbroke their phones.
Yeah, using my iphone is so much fun when doing basic functions like recording video, looking at flash video, writing MMS, voice dialing, and getting files from my computer over bluetooth. My favourite thing to do is to write and edit my Office documents while on the bus. Expandable memory is a great feature. Windows Media Sucks!
Now I can't decide: iPhone 3G or BlackBerry Thunder? Wait, what's the pricing on this one?
Pete, my favorite thing I *don't* do on my iPhone is mess with a task manager just to keep the thing from bogging down! :)
iPhone won't be killed by hardware. The beauty of the iPhone is it's OS, UI..etc
How are ppl not seeing that yet.
So, the only real potential iPhone killer would be:
- An Android device.
- A WM7 device. (esp if Tegra was running it)
Software, not hardware.
@Saad Rabia
You don't have to like the iPhone, but attempting to downplay it as "outdated" and and play-up YET ANOTHER UNRELEASED "iPhone Killer" just makes you look stupid.
Beyond the fact that this device isn't even released, It's running Windows mobile for god sakes. This will never compete with the iPhone or any variant thereof.
Windows mobile has been a complete failure for 10+ years, and even the latest version 6.1 barely improves on the terrible interface and non-existent usability. WinMo does have a lot of features, but my god, not even the technically-literate can operate it properly because it is complex and so badly designed. For god sakes, a START BUTTON does NOT belong on a mobile device. Your average user just wants to give up smartphones after trying windows mobile. And I haven't even mentioned the poor performance, significant bugs, and frequent crashing and freezing.
The iPhone is not a great device because it offers so many features, or has the best camera, or the highest resolution screen. It's a great device because the things it DOES DO are so well designed and integrated. Email, Calendar, Phone, Media Player, and especially the Web Browser are extremely well designed and absurdly easy and convenient to use. Now, the app store
I wonder what version of windows mobile you have all used?
Half of the problem with WM, is the bloat that carriers load into there roms, if you try using one of the custom ones, you will see how dam fast it is.
My TyNT Has a 400mhz cpu, and about 24meg of ram, and even if i load up everything I have installed on the phone its still dam fast.
I like the WM UI, maybe its just me though, but it seems logical after using windows for so long, I cant say that the iPhone doesn't have a very, pretty, UI, never had a chance to play with it myself though.
Anyway, Im a qwerty man myself, I don't think I will ever want to change, unless something like this REALLY feels like a physical keyboard.
Looks like it's as big as a dinner plate.
Is Android ever coming out?
I was thinking the same thing.
I guess their smart move is releasing an Android phone pre-Christmas, right around the time WM7 phones with Tegra processors start surfacing all over the web.
Stupid people...
And they said that a software based touch keyboard would never catch on. In either sense, I love my iPhone and I an a huge Apple fan, but I am loving seeing all these phones try and take on the iPhones dominance. Pushes Apple to do more and vice versa. Everybody wins. Now that we got fair practices with the hardware, its time to take on the carriers. Lol
amen.
AT&T Wireless.. is mine..
Oh so the iPhone fans are now unbiased are they ?
But I agree, without competition its no fun.. Microsoft wouldnt be doing what all it has now if Apple and others hadn't given their best shot at something.
Makes it interesting and fun.
I like apple for starting something.. but they are just arrogant and certain other things make me sort of go away from them.
Thats just MY OPINION.
"...but I am loving seeing all these phones try and take on the iPhones dominance"
They may be dominating press coverage, but they aren't really dominating the smart phone market, let alone the wider mobile phone market. Last quarter Apple actually lost market share to RIM.
@wolfticket
LOL is that possible cuz apple stopped shippnig phones that quarter?
Dumbass
@Erik
Well, no, because the figures refer to Q1 when they were still shipping.
@both. Those figures were completely lame and essentially meaningless because they were Q1 08 to Q4 07 comparison. There's this little thing called the Christmas holiday in Q4, and apple focuses on consumers. Apple sales are highly seasonal and Apple's Q1 will always be a lot smaller than it's Q4. Rim on the other hand is very much business oriented and many new fiscal years start Q1.
The real comparisons will be Q3 and Q4 year over year.
Personally I like both, I own stock in both (witch is painful on the RIMM side these days). Heck, I have a Mac AND an XP box too. The only tech I really hate is Vista...
Carry on.
@Craig
Seasonal figures also affect every othe rmanufacturer though, that's why we're talking about market share not sales volume.
Carry on.
hopefully they improve the media player..
Another iPhone?
Software will most likely suck. Unfortunatly.
My gf got a blackberry. And to be honest I'm not sure how ppl put up with them. Hard to use and old techknology don't mix well. Good luck rimm, with this and your falling stock (-40 pts)
i know it's a business phone, but i still hope they can make the UI look prettier before release.
yeah, comic sans does not belong ANYWHERE.
Now weren't the masses saying that the iPhone could never be suitable for business because it lacked a physical key pad. Now, the #1 (disputably) business phone/pda has just dropped the physical key pad. Does this mean that everybody that made the anti key pad statements should feel silly for letting their own assumptions get in the way of reality, or has the blackberry just made a useless device for business. food for thought. I personally don't care for a physical key pad, but to each his own. I actually liked HP's iPac, some time ago it came w/ a detachable thumb board, I never used it much, but I thought it was a good idea for those that wanted it.
I think you're referring to the iPac 63** series... the detachable keyboard was a good attempt at making a smartphone that didn't alienate either the people who wanted a QWERTY keypad of those that thought it was superfluous. The market still vacilates between those users.
http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/hp-ipaq-pocket-pc/1995-6452_7-30981393.html?hhTest=1 *
*(iPhone fanboys need not click the link, no need to understand how smartphones evolved)
Although it's really early, I'm saying it's a consumer model that will go against another consumer model, the iPhone. Until power users show RIM that a touch keyboard is actually be better than a physical keyboard, I'm going to assume anything that isn't a physical keyboard will be a consumer model (also depending on specs, i.e. Curve vs. 8800).
I don't see how it would make sense to compare a business model to a consumer model. Business model will lack features (specifically media features) that a consumer model has and the business model will have all the necessary features to be productive over a consumer model.
@letstakeawalk
yes, I had the 6305
blackberry hasn't dropped the physical keyboard. they are just expanding their phone line up, which is why they did a clam flip phone as well.
blackberry will continue doing physical keyboards for a long time thankfully.
blackberry hasn't dropped the physical keyboard. they are just expanding their phone line up, which is why they did a clam flip phone as well.
blackberry will continue doing physical keyboards for a long time thankfully.
No, if RIM stopped making devices with actual keyboards and people kept buying them anyway, THEN we'd all have to eat crow. RIM could start making phones with Dora the Explorer themes, that doesn't mean that those are what people want to use. Power users still buy primarily buy keyboarded phones. Some don't, and RIM wants that market too. Some are waiting for a fully touchscreen phone that executes the keyboard better, and again, this is what RIM is trying.
RIM didn't "Ditch" the physical keyboard, they still have lots of phones that have physical keyboards, this is simply widening their range of devices. The VAST majority of their phones still use physical keyboards.
all the reasons above, why RIM dominates the smartphone market. Appeal to the masses with various handsets instead of just one.
Personal opinion, although the iPhone has it's pros and cons, unless they make more than one handset, I don't think they will ever top RIM. If Apple keeps one handset and then adds features to it every year or whenever, you're only gaining a small amount of new users because previous owners won't be willing to get a brand new iPhone just for one or two upgrades. With RIM, you get the whole spectrum. Starting with the Kickstart to the Pearl. Then you have the Curve to the 8800 and finally the Bold and soon to be released, the Thunder.
Slowly, RIM is materially increasing investment to achieve dominant global handset status.
(Does anyone know the total amount of first generation iPhone users and the running total of 3G users?)
keep in mind that my post was relatively neutral.
1) no keypad is OK for business
or
2) This is no good for business.
I didn't take a stance either way. 1/2 here say "they are targeting niche groups" ie no good for business use, and the other 1/2 say it's not for business. I'm personally of the opinion that all PDA/phones are primarily business oriented, since many of the features are not necessary for non business applications. the list as follows;
* e-mail - necessary for business but is a gimmick for the masses.
* internet - very useful for business, moderately useful since a small phone can access HUB's which makes useful info very quick, ie movie times.
* GPS - very useful in business, useful for the masses, but other alternatives available, like Google maps from a comp.
* Wi-Fi - see internet above, not necessary since the amount of info the masses need on the go is minimal (again, text, like movie times).
* mobile computing - necessary for a business man on the go, since laptops can get heavy and awkward. The masses don't depend on mobile computing (ie they don't make money off of it, and the screen size is a put off if it's not necessary).
now what phones already offer (some models)
music
tv
sms
but a lot of good points have been made by others here, and I'm just putting my own opinion down in this post, and I could be completely wrong. Final note, this post isn't nearly as neutral as the first.
Finally RIM has discovered the secret weapon to lure fanboys away from the iPhone...behold the awesome power of BBCasual.
Next up, WinMo7 with Comic Sans.
Is that Comic Sans they're using? Oh blackberry, shame on you.
Should we be impressed that you are able to identify text fonts?
High five for you! ;]
lol I was waiting for someone to say something about that!
God no!!!! No more Blackberry coverage. This is ludicrous.
There, it needed to be done. Please move along with the comments.
That said, I like the look of the phone, but of course, seeing it in action is how I'd make my decision. Based on the Blackberrys I've used in the past, I'm going to say no. Hopefully they've improved with this phone.
Whoa, apparently they're going to use WebKit on this thing. That'll shorten the web browsing gap in a hurry.
It seems like no touch screen is as big as the iPhone's which means they never have vertical keyboards.
There is a sure type keyboard in portrait mode
honestly, this looks pretty lame.
I agree.
Has a bit of retro look to it..... maybe the '80s are coming back in fashion!
god the blackberry thunder is soo fugly.... it's literally the ugliest blackberry iv ever seen.. the blackberry bold was a step forward but this is just and ugly peice of crap the falls on its ass in a backward direction.... but who knows maybe the interface and all the features will be amazing!
I hate Comic Sans.
you know fonts are easily changed right?
its a memo pad. just like apple default font for "notes" in mail is comic sans.
Actually, I think it's Marker Felt =P
You can always change the default font.
I call fake; the shadows are all wrong!
http://xkcd.com/331/
ah thanks, I was trying to find that!
But regardless the impotent BB software, that build seems solid and the virtual keyboard really does look palpable..
The screen rez sucks and the device looks much too fat.
Whether it will fend off the Jesus phone 3G will depend on how well the BB software is.
Apple has already screwed up its chances big time with corporates with the widely publicized launch snafus- showing the corp world that it still has miles to go before its servers have enterprise-level reliability.
Screen resolution? Device looks too fat?
The specs aren't even released yet and you're saying the screen resolution sucks. Fail.
I love Apples.
This is bull. This can't be any good. If it were then Apple would have brought it out first. Ridiculous.
This is just an apple rip-off. Even the keys are in the same order as the iphone. qwerty. copy cat.
@McDowell,
You Apple hater !!
Just because another company comes out with something new, you claim that the Iphone is crap. Go home !!
The facts surrounding this are that the screen depressed when you touch it, giving it a "tactile" feedback. It says nothing about clicks - you idiot.
So stop criticising the iphone. I love Apples.
Damn, maybe I should return my iPhone now and see if I want to purchase it when this cool device comes out.
@McDowell,
The article says nothing about the Full QWERTY and SureType entry either, nor the fact that it uses Multi-touch or the Browser engine uses Webkit.
When you hold the phone in landscape orientation it changes the input to landscape and vice versa for portrait.
And I don't agree with you that Apple copied the Multi-touch from Blackberry. I don't really know who came up with the idea first.
but let me tell you one thing... IF APPLE DID NOT INNOVATE IT FIRST, IT AINT WORTH HAVIN.
I love Apples.
so I guess you think things like touchscreens and virtual keyboards on said screens are not worth having then
Finally! I've been waiting for this one for a while. A nice big touchscreen on Verizon that has all the things Apple's Iphone doesn't.
Unless this thing absolutely is a lemon, I'm buying it.
I like the tactile idea... best of both worlds!
(btw thats not Comic Sans, the "e" and "t" look different than Comi Sans... just saying =D)
Personally i see this as a step in the right direction but certainly not worth my money... first gen ANYTHING makes me skeptical.
|G|
oh, mr. blurrycam, i hardly knew ye.
After one year of studying the iPhone/OS/APP Store/SDK...this is all they have to show for? What then when most of the 200 patents from Apple are finally approved? BB next revision will be even more pathetic.
@Jubei,
You are so far out of it, it is not even funny. Get your facts rights will you please.
Just watch the returns on the iphone over the next 30 days.
Did you buy an iphone ? I mean really ????
I have seen the iphone. It looks just like a Dell AXim 50v. Even Tom's Hardware is comparing it to a Treo 650. LMAO !!!!!
I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Apples. But the iphone is a joke. A pig with lipstick.
Clearly the Emperor has no clothes !!
What are these patents you are talking about ??
Multi-touch - I don't think so, Apple did not invent that
Touch-screen - I don't think so, Apple did not invent that
Webkit Browser engine - open source !!
Glass screenI don't think so - Apple did not invent that.
WTF are you talking about, idiot. Loser.
I love Apples.
@Jubei,
That one year would have been better spent with a mirror, studying your own ass.
I mean WTF, you really spenty a year studying "iPhone/OS/APP Store/SDK". You frickin idiot. Does that make you an expert.
Did you study the competition as well, or do you just "know" that Apples are better. You are such a toss-pot it is untrue.
COME BACK CLAKKKKKKKK, please. Get these diluted twats out of here. At least Clak knew what he was talking about AND had a sense of humour about it.
I love Apples.
As I have stated many times before regarding your powers of observation. You are incapable of differentiating a meatball from a beach-ball. What's worse, you debate as if you have Turrets syndrome. Actually it would be an insult to those afflicted with that condition to even associate your version of this tic disorder to theirs. Please go buy a square peg and learn to put the square peg into a square hole. You continue to try and push that peg into a circular hole. Its amusing, but doesn't compliment your intelligence.
I believe Blackberry Thunder just earned a place in my anticipated list of potential phone i ll be upgrading to. Sony Ericsson X1 where re thou
I do hope this comes to ATT eventually, I am elegible for an upgrade a year from now and I don't want to buy an iphone.
i like what i see. it reminds me of the GBA when turned to the landscape position. might be the next phone i purchase. have verizon already, and wouldnt have to do much to get this baby to work with the current contract i have.
Too bad RIMM isn't even talking about their new products when iPhone is eating its lunch.
Really? Prior to the release of iPhone 3G, RIM has a market share hovering around 47 (give or take a percent or two...) while Apple is is below 20 percent. So who's really eating who's lunch now? Even after the launch Apple's market share WILL go up but even after that it still won't even be close.
Apple might be winning the battle, but is definitely losing the war.
(I might have interpreted what you said in a biased way, but just in case you didn't, I had to put that there for you...)
Just great! I was getting ready to get an iPhone this week and these pictures come out. Now, do I wait until the rumored release date of early September to decide which phone I will get? Or do I just take a leap anyhow?
You are asking a rhetorical question, right?
What a waste of technology. Why aren't companies just using sliders? It is a perfectly good solution to the "how can we have a big screen AND keyboard" problem. It's worked well on every device that has implemented it. So what's the deal? Have your crazy-UI touch screen and a slider when you need to type.
the thing with sliders
1. the phone will be pretty thick
2. the wear and tear on sliders isn't too great
the thing with sliders is
1. the phone will be pretty damn thick
2. the wear and tear on sliders isn't great
Try to imagine yourself typing on a squishy touchscreen like that, kind of sponge-like. Do you think that will lend itself to speedy typing? Sounds kind of slow doesn't it. And what's with the 80's typewriter look, good grief. This will just be a gimmick.
Why does RIM insist on using that butt-ugly font?
I realize that you can probably change it, but just.. why?
RIM is the Microsoft of smart phones. This device is playing catch-up. RIM has for so long been the really only game in town, and now Apple comes along and shakes things up, now we're seeing TV adverts for Blackberry and now this.
Blackberry, like Motorola, is what you get when you let engineers do the development and design. You get a lot of function in a bland package that really doesn't have any style or thought-out user interface. This is where the iPhone excels. Unfortunately for Apple it's a little late to the party. RIM already has a strong hold and a huge installation base. The one advantage is that Apple is getting a software base at the beginning.
I've used a Blackberry, Treo, and I now own an iPhone. There'll be two camps forever, Apple and RIM. Apple and Microsoft.
Too little, too late crackberry.
The interface will have to be BETTER than the iphone's. Otherwise, it will be as unsuccessful as the rest of the copy-craps out there.
BTW, crackberry interface sucks.
Not so sure how I feel about the aspect ratio... I'm more of a widescreen man.