Mojave Experiment goes live, doesn't fail to annoy
By Paul Miller 
posted July 29th 2008 9:08AM
posted July 29th 2008 9:08AM
Update: We're hearing you guys loud and clear in comments. We'll admit, we hate senseless Microsoft / Vista bashing just as much as the next guy, and that's not what this is about. The problem here is Microsoft basically filmed itself an infomercial (or "pulled a Pizza Hut," as pointed out in comments) and is passing it off as some interesting experiment into FUD. If these users had been sent home for a week or so with a Vista machine -- or better yet, a copy of Vista to install themselves -- that'd be a whole different story, but they weren't. There was no scientific method in play, no control experiment, nothing. They were shown a 10 minute demo. That's it.
Read - The "Mojave Experiment"
Read - Windows Vista Team Blog
That isn't nice. I'm sure Paul is a nice guy. Unfortunately, when blogging, it is often easier to go into autopilot and rehash old jokes or just be snarky and dismissive. I know I've been guilty of the same. Just look at the rest of the posts here or on other sites. 90% of them will have the same tone for no other reason than that it is easier to write this way and because they don't want to seem like a PR hack.
Paul, next time challenge yourself a little and try praising the good things while pointing out the bad. It's difficult.
In your face Vista haters
It's funny that engadget doesn't take that view...
But yes I agree - take that!
I've noticed that, too. Mr. Miller seems too blinded by his own personal bias to see that this is not an experiment in trickery as much as an experiment in showing people that when you remove the bias that exists for no good reason at all, you've actually got something usable. Enjoyable, even.
@christopher
i just watched most of the little video clips... and it's embarrassing.
"Mojave is actually vista!"
"huh... i guess vista is a little better than i thought."
that's seriously what they think is a glowing review?
if you actually watch most of those videos, the people are unenthusiastic and annoyed, and the nicest thing most people had to say was "oh."
I'd like to ask Microsoft why they used Adobe Flash for the site instead of their "superior" Silverlight solution...
http://theappleblog.com/2007/07/06/five-lesser-known-tips-on-how-to-be-an-apple-fanboy/
PROOF! these mac fanboys do exist AND publish their doings PUBLICALLY!
they have a set procedure on being a mac fan boy..omgness
the world is mad i tell you mad....MAD!!
@christopher
wow, i'd like to point out what @Reid said earlier.
"Also, mojaveexperiment.com website served by Apache on Linux."
LOL, apparently his comment was lost in all the mess.
Anyway, I actually had to see for myself at what you had said christopher - sure enough - watching the videos are very dull and uncomfortable.
it's like watching rejected episodes of "Punk'd"
MS REP: "It's actually Windows Vista"
USER: "I think its excellent, *goofy laugh* I love it (in a monotonous voice)
BONUS: Check out the girl (with the red) 4th Row - 3rd Column.
"It seems good for its time, if you were put it next to a Mac system... this system has better features..."
Yikes. Sounds like a challenge.
Anyway, the website is seriously bad, I am embarrassed that I even went to it. They probably hired the same guys that did the Pizza Hut / Pasta Hut commercials... =|
The hatred of Vista is pretty over the top now. In it's current state it's as good as any OS and is really a nice setup. I upgraded a month ago and have had no problems at all.
I've never used Vista, so I don't comment on it's performance, etc. I have actually converted my family over to Apple (the last 3 home computers I've bought have been macs (mini, macbook pro, and a macbook). I did it because I find the embedded DRM to be insulting and proof that Microsoft is relying on their monopoly to allow them to force unwanted "features" down their customers throats.
Consumers as a whole need Microsoft to be forced to compete again so that they stop writing software for the benefit of third parties (MPAA, RIAA, etc) while charging their customers for it. If the IP conglomerate want an OS that serves them instead of the people who bought the hardware it's running, then they should pay for it and offer it free to the people they want to use it. jmo.
Walt, has it occurred to you that Macs are the ultimate in DRM. The whole computer is like one big dongle for goodness sake. Apple has just as much DRM as Microsoft in any of their products that rely upon someone elses content.
@walt see Jake
and yeah Apple is bending backwards just as much as MS is when it comes to HD content. look for the same "secure" video data stream technicalities in Apples next OS version upgrade. as for DRM I've only had problems with Itunes in Vista(for instance audibles Itunes DRM manager doesn't reckonize my copy of itunes or my ipod when it's connected..
@Jake and Andrew:
if you honestly believe Apple is injecting as much DRM and lock-down into their OS as MS has been, you're either, delusional, ill-informed, or you're making shit up.
...we're talking about an awful lot more than just fairplay here, folks.
@Jeff
Apple don't do it in their OS. Just everything you use with it.
@Mark Anderson
everything else? you mean all the DRM-free MP3s that iTunes converted from my CD collection that play on my iPhone, iPod and AppleTV? (as well as any other of the million of devices that play mp3s?) ...or are you talking about the iTunes Plus tracks i bought that play on anything or can be converted to anything? ...or do you mean the Amazon MP3 tracks i bought?
outside of Fairplay, i'm having a hard time even coming up with a real-world example of DRM on my mac.
what, exactly, are you talking about?
There's DRM at the very heart of Mac OSX the BIOS. BTW I'm talking out my ass APple has said on record that they are working with studios to ensure teh data stream is secure for HD downloads in the next OS upgrade. Especially since Apple is introducing BD-roms soon. and hey that's great about you using DRM free solutions, I do too. meanwhile it's still a bitch to use Itunes effectively even with an iPOD. anyways I didn't mean for my comment to be a OS war just stating that any negatives people have with VISTA can be found in any decent OS.
Andrew,
I was raving to my co-workers and friends about how much I liked Vista when I got a new Dell laptop with it installed. My favorite part was when I would install old software and Vista would tell me that, "Vista cannot run this program because it was built to run on whatever. Do you want to continue?" Or something like that. You would hit continue and, wah-la, the software app would work anyway. This must have happened with 3 or 4 older windows games I owned.
Now, however, about 9 - 12 months of running Vista, and installing the new patch/upgrade or whatever came out 3 months ago, Vista just does not work very well. It takes about 1-4 minutes to open up my control panel. It takes forever to load a new internet page (I have cable internet and my work laptop, running XP and two years older than my personal laptop opens up pages instantly) or a new tab inside of IE. It constantly locks up on me when I am online and I have to close all programs. I have it defragment once a week, I have anti-virus software and adware deletion tools so the only thing I can attribute my computers recent bad performance is Vista itself.
I hope the same does not happen to you, but I am getting very frustrated with the problems my laptop is having.
@Jeff
Is that the iPhone that forces you to use iTunes to sync? You know, the one that only lets you install apps from the iTunes store? You know, the store that can't agree a DRM free deal with three out of the four major recording labels?
Or are we talking about QuickTime which has FairPlay built into it?
Carry on.
"...That people heard really bad things from their friends and co-workers, but a slick 10 minute sales presentation showed them the light?..."
That hype and urban propaganda still affect most of our opinions... alas.
Hype and urban propaganda....
I thought there was a computer vendor who did this already...they really have a thing for brushed aluminum....
Or could it be that people who used Vista found issues and didn't like it !?!?
I am one of those IT Consultants who has been hounded into re installing XP because Vista on NEW Dell machines were so poor they were affecting the business.
Did anybody else find that statement by the author to be really condescending? Well, I'll help you PAUL. That's not what they are saying. Mojave is here to show that this goes to show people who actually USE Vista enjoy it, and people who are told not to like it by their nerdy Linux buddies do not.
It's not about a "slick 10 minute sales presentation," it's about preconceived notions effecting their good judgement. Which it obviously did.
I am not usually one to cry "FANBOY" at Engadget, but this negative MS mentality is a little off the charts now. Give me a break.
Oops, little confusing... reworded...
"Mojave is here to show that people who actually USE Vista enjoy it..."
And I will still end with: give me a fucking break, PAUL.
Paul Miller, wow... can you say biased reporting?
@Pochi: Yeah, you're speaking to the same blog that has the newest Apple commercials queued up in their Netflix account.
Heeeeyyyy-Ooooooooo!!!
Just kidding Engadget, I still heart you.
@Pochi: Keep it clean. Remember your a guest at pauls house.
"Paul Miller, wow... can you say biased reporting?"
You can say that again.
Someone wake up Ryan Block to lie...um, tell us again that engadget isnt biased.
I mean seriously:
"What are you trying to say, Microsoft? That people heard really bad things from their friends and co-workers, but a slick 10 minute sales presentation showed them the light?
Exactly why is this guy so POd? Because MS blew a big hole in the RDF the tech media has been building for the past two years?
I would be ticked off too.
If there is a real editor on staff, can they have a real writer redo this post?
Let me first say, I love vista!
The problem is: When vista first came out it had lots of issues so everyone (techies) jumped on the "vista sucks" bandwagon and told all their (non techie) friends to stay clear. Now that Microsoft has fixed many of the vista issues the techies have jumped off the bandwagon but forgotten to tell their non techie friends that it's ok to come out and join the social.
Now, Microsoft has to fix the damage or watch vista sales die some more. Its microsofts own fault for botching the whole vista release in the first place. Too bad they have to try to convince people to "vote for vista" with this testimonial crap.
"Mojave" is just an election campaign for vista. Vista '08! Vista for president! (XP voted against the surge)
@fred -- Paul Miller is a "real editor," and it's not like Vista issues are some fantasy creation of Windows haters. He's not biased, just honest. If you prefer to accept what Microsoft's PR people tell you, however, that's your choice.
@OneLove
Apologies. I forget sometimes that there are young eyes falling upon Engadget's pages.
Feel free to edit that down to "stinking" whenever you get a chance, you secret Engadget moderators.
Are there Engadget moderators? I would assume not since that guy "clak" posted without being banned for so long...
Answering that question, Paul, I'd say: Fuck Yes; friends and co-workers were BSing all that time, including the BS in this article. Stop the crap and get back to your senses. Don't let the AOL tard plans screw your logic.
@Pochi:I love you. :)
@Joshua Topolsky
Honest about what?
"...a slick 10 minute sales presentation showed them the light?"
He's taking a pot shot. It's not really a "sales presentation," and obviously, whatever you do call it, it DID show them the light. Sure the OS has problems. So does every OS. That's the reality here - that people DO take the whole Vista mass hysteria overboard and judge it before they even USE it.
The negative MS sentiment that is becoming more and more prevalent really wasn't necessary. Like I said, you'd be hard pressed to find another comment of mine accusing the editorial staff of bias, but this rubbed me (and apparently a several others) the wrong way.
@Indie:
This is a blog, not a genuine news agency. The writers here are not bound to the same writing precepts as an official news writing and are fully allowed to let their opinions go unshackled in their articles. Now to voice against your opinion against theirs is one thing, it's fair to disagree with their opinion, but your pointing out that it is 'biased reporting' lends to the idea that you believe that is a totally outlandish situation, even given that you are reading it in a blog.
Here's the problem: anything looks good when used for 10 mins and shown off by a trained PR hack.
Sure, there's plenty to love about Vista (in fact, I've used Vista since day one on a primary machine), but most of those improvements have been clouded by considerable problems, especially out of the gate. Microsoft has certainly made great strides towards improving Vista, but this "experiment" proves absolutely nothing. A highly controlled 10 minute demo that touches on none of Vista's pain points is not an "experiment," it's an infomercial.
@Joshua Topolsky
Going to have to agree with the general audience here. This article was not written with a neutral tone. Microsoft had to demonstrate that Vista was a good operating system, and they had to figure out some way to get an honest response. This experiment demonstrated that quite well. I don't understand why you call this a "slick 10 minute sales demonstration".
This was a well thought out experiment. Tell people its something different. See if they like it when it doesn't have the bad reputation associated with it.
> Yeah, you're speaking to the same blog that has the newest
> Apple commercials queued up in their Netflix account.
That's stupid. As if I'm back 10 years ago, when M$ had no competition and Windows was The OS.
People actually now *can* like/dislike Vista (underline matching) - precisely because there are brushed aluminum and brown/orange alternatives now.
Making fun out of pointless M$ atroturfing... Hell why not. As if people do not make fun out of Apple commercials and Linux propaganda.
It absolutely blows my mind that people really believe that the 98% of the computing world that uses a Windows machine on a regular basis, were hoodwinked by a small band of Apple and OSS fanatics into believing Microsoft's latest product was total crap and to avoid it.
It's like believing that the downfall of the American auto industry was due to a few clever Honda and Toyota enthusiasts spreading rumors that American cars suck.
Get real, people. Almost everyone who uses computers, touches Windows on a daily basis. It's pretty hard to pull the wool over that many peoples' eyes.
Maybe, just maybe, Microsoft has a terrible track record with OSes, and consumer prejudices against them are their own damn fault, not the fault of a few hipsters with square glasses. Maybe Windows users aren't as dumb as Microsoft thinks they are, and they have spoken to trusted friends who knows far more about Windows than they do, who have tried Vista, and then switched right back. I know I for one base my avoidance of Vista on a number of Windows sysadmins I know and trust.
Also, mojaveexperiment.com website served by Apache on Linux.
Spot on Engadget. If you are shown the best features of Vista, all working smoothly, of course it will be impressive. Same with almost any OS, hell you can probably even make Windows Me look good.
Trouble is, they didn't show them that you can't install iPrint because the drivers aren't available yet, or that you have to keep clicking boxes to allow programs to do what you've just asked them to do, or that on given hardware it runs half the speed of XP, or that no, you can't uninstall Norton and stop those stupid messages.
I work in IT support, and these are the kind of things I encounter every day, but yeah, if you showed me a new OS with all the good parts of Vista and none of the bad, I too would be impressed.
Its soooo cold in here today.
"@fred -- Paul Miller is a "real editor,""
Id hate to see the fake ones then.
" and it's not like Vista issues are some fantasy creation of Windows haters."
Issues? You mean like the issues you get with Leopard and Linux? Wow, it seems that those issues rarely register a peep from the same people that blow their gasket over stories like this.
"He's not biased, just honest. If you prefer to accept what Microsoft's PR people tell you, however, that's your choice."
Is that what you call this BS of a posting? When I see him launch into Apple like this, then I will agree that he's not.
And I'm looking at video footage of people's real reaction. Unless you want to level the charge that the video was altered by MS, then the results speak for themselves, and the ranting of a ticked off writer should be seen for what it is.
"Here's the problem: anything looks good when used for 10 mins and shown off by a trained PR hack.
Sure, there's plenty to love about Vista (in fact, I've used Vista since day one on a primary machine), but most of those improvements have been clouded by considerable problems, especially out of the gate. Microsoft has certainly made great strides towards improving Vista, but this "experiment" proves absolutely nothing. A highly controlled 10 minute demo that touches on none of Vista's pain points is not an "experiment," it's an infomercial."
Coming from the site that live blogs Apple infomercials....um, events, thats really funny.
Ok, then have someone run a test (An unbiased source, not Engadget) to show all of the stuff in Vista, OSX, and Linux, that may potential annoy a user, and see if anyone of them will be high marks.
And don't pawn some lie on us that "oh their aren't any problems with OSX or Linux".
These people, whom have had their view of Vista created not by ACTUAL USE, but by bias nonsense on (((not news, but just a blog site))), and from people who have read this stuff, and then pass it along to them, were given a look at the real OS that they though was horrible, and they came away with a positive first impression.
This in a nutshell is what you are angry about. MS undercut the negative reporting and frankly made many of you look ridiculous in the over the top way you bashed this product for the past two years.
bitch bitch bitch.
by the way, Fed, it's easy to come away with a "positive first impression" of a product if
A) you're not actually using it as you normally would, but rather watching a trained professional use it specifically to impress you in a short period of time in a controlled environment,
and more importantly;
B) your expectations for it are about as low as they can be.
@nh
I don't believe you when you say you work in IT. If you did then you would know that Microsoft isn't responsible for writing drivers for other people's hardware, that's the responsibility of the hardware maker. Also, the reason you have to keep clicking boxes to use your applications is because programmers have gotten so used to having a system with no security that when Microsoft implemented it their applications are all in violation of it. For the longest time people screamed about how with Apple you didn't have to worry about web applications taking control of your computer... that's because they didn't give applications administration rights. Now, Microsoft corrects this and people scream about the trouble it caused. Don't like it!? Disable it!!! Or as your software creators to adhere to the new security in Vista. Vista runs half the speed of XP?!? Prove it! Oh, and your problem with Norton... that's Norton's fault, not Vista. Get your facts straight.
I liked "The Philadelphia Experiment" more.
Dude. Paul.
What you don't get is that this experiment is ENTIRELY about first impressions.
MS is directly targeting the first five minutes of "Vista awareness" that people have. A lot of it today (and I've heard this a million times from people who have yet to even see the OS) is "I heard Vista is bad, terrible, etc etc, I don't think that I want to use it"
All they were doing was showing, "hey, you guys, give it five-ten minutes of your time with no preconceived notions (perpetuated by the rampant RDF in place in mass media) and you might actually like it."
What you suggest as an alternative experiment wouldn't really be appropriate, as it would reintroduce the (possible) negative Vista bias. ("I heard that Vista was bad, so it must be bad, oh look, I don't like that niggling thing, it ruins my whole experience")
That's it. I don't understand why you're so worked up about it, dude. All they want to do is change the first five minutes of people's awareness of Vista, and I think that this is a clever way to do it (by naming it something else to remove the "I heard it from a friend/the news" bias).
@nh
I agree with Don in saying that it is very hard to believe you are an actual IT assistant. If I were to hire an IT tech here at Lockheed to work for my company I would certainly hope they posses the basic ability to disable the UAC...or the knowledge to use AVG instead of Norton...
Who's opinion do you trust? A select group of Windows users hand-picked by Microsoft in a controlled "experiment"? Do their opinions carry more weight than reviews and articles by the mainstream technical publications?
Here are just a few of the very many similar articles written about Vista by IT media professionals:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2286065,00.asp
(Note: this one is written by Microsoft loyalist John C. Dvorak, and published in PC Magazine)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2287685,00.asp
(Another article from PC Magazine)
http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/page1/
Engadget limits to 3 URLs per reply, so here are a couple more articles worth reading:
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/436
http://www.crn.com/software/199701019