Mojave Experiment goes live, doesn't fail to annoy
By Paul Miller 
posted July 29th 2008 9:08AM
posted July 29th 2008 9:08AM
Update: We're hearing you guys loud and clear in comments. We'll admit, we hate senseless Microsoft / Vista bashing just as much as the next guy, and that's not what this is about. The problem here is Microsoft basically filmed itself an infomercial (or "pulled a Pizza Hut," as pointed out in comments) and is passing it off as some interesting experiment into FUD. If these users had been sent home for a week or so with a Vista machine -- or better yet, a copy of Vista to install themselves -- that'd be a whole different story, but they weren't. There was no scientific method in play, no control experiment, nothing. They were shown a 10 minute demo. That's it.
Read - The "Mojave Experiment"
Read - Windows Vista Team Blog
That was 4.5 as scored by people who had never tried it, in comparison to the 8.5 it scored after they tried it. Did you not understand that "Mojave" IS Vista?
"I say it just goes to show that you can slap a little UI mod on something that's already out there, and people will think it's new technology and therefore great."
You mean the iPhone?
I am sick and tired of the OS fanboy bashing of Vista, OSX, Linux, etc. This experiment is about breaking those preconceptions people have about an OS with little to no knowledge of the actual operating system. Yes, its a Marketing ploy. But I hope its effective because there are a lot of people who would benefit from a lot of Vista's features at home.
Im going to 'sound off' here a little to vent on these haters I keep seeing in the forums.
I myself am a programmer/web developer. I use XP at work and Vista and OSX at home. I dont use Linux simply because I haven't found a version I particularly find easy for myself to use at home. I dont hate or harbor any ill will toward any flavor of Linux, I just haven't found a version that I find is the best fit for my particular needs/usage. Each OS has merit and downfalls, use what works best for you.
Most people I deal with outside work are essentially computer novices and I do recommend Vista for them because of their intended use and their familiarity with the Windows platform if they have the hardware to support it. Their main computer use is web browsing, photos, etc, for which Vista is excellent for.
I would also like to take a second to remind people about when XP came out. No one seems to remember the horror story upgrades and incompatability issues when XP came out. I myself had one and went back to Windows 98 for a long time until I upgraded my system. I realized my hardware couldn't run it and ran my system as is until I had the hardware for the new platform. Too many people out there back XP to a fault and talk about it like it is perfect, it's not. Never has been, never will be. Neither is any other OS.
I'd really like to see what the users, or testers, performed with Vista. What tasks were performed - email, web surfing, movies, photos, etc?
I'd also like to see the specs, if Vista's UI was standard, and if any further customization was done.
I'd also like to see the negative responses. What was the ratio of positive:negative?
1) You know they spec'd that machine to the "T" to run Vista.
2) Whenever people think they are seeing something before anyone else, their excitement level automatically raises and will give a better review of a product than normal. Unless, of course, these were real PC users that do more than email and web surf and are serious about getting what they want.
3) And I'm sorry, but some of those responses by the "testers" seemed over-the-top and phony. I'm not saying MS scripted them, or even led them what to say, but I never hear people speak like that.
I doubt anybody will ever read my comment buried 3 pages of flames deep, but this experiment doesn't surprise me at all.
Vista is better than the Vista haters make it out to be.
Most anything is better than the haters make it out to be.
If you took people that refuse to use OS X and told them it was the new "Windows Lion" some of those people would probably think the new Windows Lion really rocked.
Unfortunately the public is quick to judge things and judgement sticks. Microsoft is not immune to this, nor is Microsoft the only one who is stuck with this. The Apple Newton, as I understand it, had terrible handwriting recognition at first, which was greatly and quickly improved, but since the handwriting recognition was botched at launch, how do we all remember the Newton? That little oversized PDA that you couldn't use unless you had perfect handwriting.
Launch is important. You want to get the details right for launch. Unfortunately it's hard to know what some of your problems are going to be without the type of large scale testing that only launch can provide. Its a brutal world.
Just because a statement doesn't solidify or share your point of view doesn't make it biased. As far as I can see Paul doesn't have history of bias.
Just because the results of this test doesn't solidify or share the point of view of Paul Miller doesn't make it fraudulent either.
I'm sure you would agree, right?
OEM XP installations suck just as bad as OEM Vista installations, I think it's just as much the hardware vendors' fault as anyone. Macs don't have this issue, obviously.. and the general opinion seems to be that they are much more stable machines. On the flip side, without all the included bloatware, PCs would not be at the low price points that make them accessible to more people.
I just bought a new Dell laptop with Vista Premium and it had all sorts of basic problems... video flickering, wifi dropouts, etc. I immediately reinstall just Vista without all the "features" software and it's been fine ever since. I would do the exact same thing with a new XP machine.
I actually think Microsoft is doing the right thing here because I do believe they are fighting a lot of myths surrounding Vista. I'm not saying there aren't real problems. This is a marketing tool, and if it gets even a handful of users to switch from pessimistic to open-minded, then it's a successful one.
Perfect opportunity to purge engadget from vista fanbois? Run fanatics, run, don't hang here where there is an author who wasn't usurped by MS nonsense, run!
Wwhat, are you applying to be clack's understudy?
Vista: the western 'muhammed cartoon'.
Was that really Folgers instant coffee you served us, and not the freshly ground and brewed Espresso that you said it was? And was that really a 1972 Pinto you sold me, and not the 2009 BMW you said it was?
microsoft really can't win can they? if apple made this, it'd be a coup.
So you are saying we should not complain about MS shenanigans because apple fanboys would not complain about apple? Is that the logic here? Fine logic there, you should patent it and make a million, you could buy several copies of vista and try each one of them.
Incidentally, I noticed the news mentioned a record profit for MS selling their flawless vista, can't win you said? I'd say it's sooner the users who can't win.
The ad, or the OS?
while i do believe this to be a microsoft biased campaign, i do agree with the general premise being true. im an XP user myself (partly because im too lazy to switch, and a lot of my "legal" applications dont work quite right on vista) but i think that OS X is good, and i also think Vista is good too, especially for the average user. my friends- all of whom arent computery like me- have this massive negative stigma associated with not just vista, but PCs in general because the media (IE: the fair and balanced toward macs man: walt mossberg) and kiss ass "im a mac, and im a pc" commercials make them think that vista for an average web surfin, doccument writing user, is like buying a german car in the 1940s. my friends cant even truly explain why vista sucks, they just "know" it does. the truth of the matter is that for serious computer programmers, people doing real work with their computers, XP and OS X or linux have better programmed backbones, and are indeed better, however, for your average user, and even your advanced average user (i would say 90+ percent of the computer using population) vista is totally fine, and even has a bunch of cool features (people only know about OS Xs cool features, but microsoft didnt skimp on them for its own OS) however, due to the media, people got it in their heads that vista cant be for anyone.
Or, better yet, if you're already using XP happily, why would you upgrade? Everyone knows an upgrade is going to involve cash for the software, possibly cash for new hardware, and a LOT of time and effort involved in backing up your files, reinstalling, finding the latest version of your software, and hoping and praying that it works at least as well as your old setup did.
Unless home users having a compelling reason to upgrade, they won't.
No doubt they hope this video will change that.
Next question: How many of the Vista "cool features" they demo are either already in XP (but people didn't know how to use them), or were available via simple 3rd party addons?
Vista always had 2 problems:
1) It does have more overhead, causing hardware to perform most tasks slower than XP
2) It's expensive
The perks of Vista outweigh the loss in performance, but don't justify the cost.
Vista is quite good if you get it for free with a new PC. Vista Ultimate should cost no more than $150.
I'd like to see this same experiment done using Leopard as 'Mojave'
This would have had more value if Microsoft hadn't used subterfuge.
If they had taken people and given them a 'slick 10 minute sales presentation' on Vista, addressing the issues that many people have, that would have been fairer.
If someone from Micriosoft was to show me my issues with Vista (whether fact based, or spin & propoganda) were nonsense and easiliy addressed, I might change my opinion of the product.
Can we do a similar test with OSX and Linux too?
except everyone preconcieved notions about OS X and linux are good, especially OS X
Gee I wonder why?
Dont they have a bunch of biased writers bashing all of the annoyances of those OSs. Dont they have dishonest ads running against them?
How could they have anyone have a positive impression of those systems after all of that?
/sarcasm
It's really quite simple. This is targeting the folks who don't use Vista because of preconceived notions. It is not targeting people that:
1. Use Vista
2. Don't use Vista because they have had enough experience with it to know it is not the operating system for them.
They totally ripped off those Pizza Hut commercials where they serve up their food at a fancy Italian restaurant and, supplies, it's from Pizza Hut!
Supplies!
Or any of the myriad of other companies that do/did the exact same type of ad at least as far back as the early 80s.
We're having a supplies party, care to come?
But seriously, is Vista so bad? In all the polls, people say Vista is the biggest disappointment - http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=466&doc_id=152236&f_src=flffour
But it's not THAT bad.
To be honest, I have no reason to hate Vista. It is a solid OS. However, that being said, I have no real reason to love it, either.
I've had an XP machine for 6 years now, and then last year we got a laptop with Vista on it that showed me....Nothing. Sure, some nice bells and whistles, like Aero or the new search bar, but I saw no reason to upgrade either of the two other machines in my house (both running XP). I was excited when we went from Win98 to XP 'cause that was a huge upgrade....But XP to Vista? Not so huge for me.
Even when I got my MacBook Pro and used Bootcamp to put Windows on the thing, I stuck with XP....I honestly don't need the fancy eye candy that Vista provides and I didn't want to shell out the money for a new copy of Vista.
So yea, cost is a factor for me when I'm considering doing an upgrade to an OS that I have no practical need for yet.
The only real problem I had with Vista was the way the default network settings restrict pretty much everything; it wouldn't even see a network printer (and both the printer and the computer were hard-wired to the router). The XP machine I had to configure saw it no problem.
I have no real reason to hate Vista, I just happen to like XP better.
Aside from the fact that this "experiment" was controlled in every way possible (e.g. they didn't allow the guinea pigs to take a Mojave installer disk home, and try to install and use it in their own environment, on their own hardware, for a week)...
... How is it possible that a Windows XP user would not recognize the Mojave UI to be Vista after the Vista OS has been publicized and seen by the world for the past two years?!
Were these people living in caves?
If it is to be an experiment, there can be only one variable. In this case, the variable was the user. As an experiment, you should be critical of the conclusion. Having done my own experiment with Vista when we first got our new laptop, I concur with their results. It was not bad at all. Though it did have one annoying feature which took no time to disable.
And if you look at is as not being a real experiment, but an advertisement, then you should be no less skeptical of it than anything else you've seen advertised.
Do you see Vista in the wild much? I don't. Most laptops run XP. In fact, I was on an airplane and saw a window pop up on a laptop a few rows up, and the minimize/maximize/close buttons (only thing I could see from back there) got me wondering what kind of skin/theme it was. It took me 20 seconds to realize it must be Vista. This was just a few months ago.
Working in the tech industry (but not in helpdesk) I have to imagine I'm at least as well-prepared to identify Vista as the average luser, but it's barely even on my radar.
@Reid:
I've noticed the same thing with the iPhone.
The point here wasn't about giving users a road test. It wasn't about convincing users that Vista was better for them.
It was about exposing the groupthink of anti-Vista hatred, that these people held opinions about Vista, yet had obviously never used it. It's like some of the worst Mac fanboys who still talk about BSODs on Windows, despite the fact that BSODs largely disappeared after Windows ME.
Microsoft just pulled a Pizza Hut.
Vista is for rich people only. poor people who overclocks, buy cheap stuff stick to xp
:P
LOL, the website doesnt work on my PC but it works on my MacBook.
@Paul Miller - Did Vista steal your lunch money when you were a kid or something?
Wow... Engadget gets pretty cranky when there is no Apple news to report.
Engadget is an editorial site.
Good luck finding a completely unbiased news site. Or an editorial site that perfectly matches your biases.
you're an idiot.
this wasn't a clinical trial; it was an ADVERTISEMENT.
any of the results that didn't jibe with the marketing goals were ignored.
Being skeptical and sarcastic about an actual scientific experiment would be a little annoying, but Paul has every right to mock this completely non-scientific MARKETING CAMPAIGN if he wants to.
pull your head out of your ass.
@Reid
You wouldn't, you'd get it fresh on your new PC.
Hmm, good point. I guess most people don't think like techies, huh?
Although the new computer route would involve less time investment, it would require more money. And of course, the same applies to having to migrate your data and redownload all of your favorite apps.
You know, it seems to me if you grab 100 people off the street and ask them about Vista, those who will say they don't like it or want it have probably based that decision on articles such as this, which takes far less than 10 minutes to influence someone.
So for Paul just to post a short tirade against MS because he personally hates them seems to be pretty ridiculous. Engadget, while it is a great source of different things to be aware of, continues to degrade into heavily biased postings of either fluff or hatred.
MS is always bad, Apple is always good, every touch screen phone is a stupid pretender. I'm not saying that there are not unbiased postings about other things, but there needs to be a little more effort on informing the reader without trying to sway the reader so heavily.
"Mojave" showed us that humans are still pretty much pack-focused monkeys that a) come to strong convictions without doing their own research and b) still need to be tricked into any type of independant thought.
This was a reply to another poster who was calling Paul names. Stupid engadget comment system. (see now I'm doing it)
When I got my new laptop, I was unsure about Vista, after hearing all the bad press, so I gave myself a week to evaluate it with all the programs I use (mainly DJ and design stuff). I thought if there was any problems at all with it, I could just install XP. After I'd turned the UAC off, it performed flawlessly and I'm still using it now (nearly a year later). Any problems it's had, it's fixed itself, and I've used it at countless gigs over the last year without a single crash or audio glitch/dropout.
I'm not a MS fanboy, and I was going to get a mac instead until I heard there were still a few reliability bugs in the mac version of my DJ software - I use what works for me, and so far, Vista has worked for me. When that stops being the case, I'll stop using it. It might not be the case for everyone, but I personally don't have any reason to bash it.
Maybe this only proves that Vista was a stupid name and Mojave is way cooler.
Hey, I liked vista too the first 10 minutes I worked with it. Then it crashed, and my opinion of it plummeted. It's better than it used to be, and it's actually usable now, but it doesn't mean that I have any semblance of faith in it in terms of stability or compatibility.