Mojave Experiment goes live, doesn't fail to annoy

Alright, as much as we prefer blind conjecture, we've seen it for ourselves now and Microsoft's "Mojave Experiment" is pretty much everything we expected it to be. To Microsoft's credit, they've managed to get the nicest collection of statements ever made about Windows Vista condensed into cute little candid sound bytes from that really honest person next door. It's just too bad they had to use base trickery to do it. Oh, and in case you're into trumped up numbers: average rating of Windows Vista was 4.5, average rating of Mojave was 8.5. What are you trying to say, Microsoft? That people heard really bad things from their friends and co-workers, but a slick 10 minute sales presentation showed them the light?

Update: We're hearing you guys loud and clear in comments. We'll admit, we hate senseless Microsoft / Vista bashing just as much as the next guy, and that's not what this is about. The problem here is Microsoft basically filmed itself an infomercial (or "pulled a Pizza Hut," as pointed out in comments) and is passing it off as some interesting experiment into FUD. If these users had been sent home for a week or so with a Vista machine -- or better yet, a copy of Vista to install themselves -- that'd be a whole different story, but they weren't. There was no scientific method in play, no control experiment, nothing. They were shown a 10 minute demo. That's it.

Read - The "Mojave Experiment"
Read - Windows Vista Team Blog

[trazer @ Jul 29th 2008 12:56PM]

First of, I think both Vista and OS X have their own share of problems.
With Vista, there are the small freezes, driver issues, resource hogging and general sluggishness compared to XP. Most of these are fixed by the SP, some of them not. For me, the gain of upgrading my home pc to Vista, is not justified.

But OS X, not all roses either. My macbook couldnt even boot right after i updated to 10.5.3. If they cant test their updates on their own hardware, i cant imagine what OS X would be like, if it had to deal with all the kinds of hardware that Windows has to. Surprisingly I dont hear anyone cribbing about mac problems..

About the mohave experiment- They do have a valid point, but they could have done it in a much more scientific way. The people in the video looked like a bunch of easily amused people.

I would love to hear what exactly impressed the people in the video so much. They look like they havent seen ANY modern OS.

"It represents the things that we could only dream of a couple of years back" - What! what DID they show that poor guy?

[Reid @ Jul 29th 2008 1:14PM]

If you don't hear about Mac problems, you're not paying attention. As everyone on Engadget loves to point out, Apple gets way more press than they 'deserve' for their market share -- good and bad.

Every single Apple story has legitimate user complaints about their terrible experience, followed by 100 haters posting their insightful "What happened to 'it just works'" or "OMG teh 1-button mouse!!" comments, for which they high rank each other.

I'll add one: I have Leopard on my dual-proc G5 at work, and it sucks. I don't use any of the 'features' it has over Tiger (Time Machine is the only one that springs to mind), but it seems sluggish at times and apps crash more than they do on my XP Thinkpad. Using Tiger on my Mac Pro (Intel) at home is an absolute dream compared to the G5 with Leopard.

The new dock is ugly, the "stars" next to running apps on the dock blend in with the stars in the default background (yes, I've switched it), and the flat non-colorful engraved default folders for apps, movies, music, etc, are next to impossible to differentiate.

[Reid @ Jul 29th 2008 12:57PM]

ha ha, I got low-ranked for pointing out that Engadget is not, not does it claim to be, unbiased.

[HamiltonGuy @ Jul 29th 2008 1:05PM]

@fred

"And as you can see they are in full meltdown mode. I've looked at several other sites, and these guys have completely lost it.

Their hate is just that consuming."

Pot, kettle, black... look in a mirror (if you can stand the sight) as from my few visits here reading various threads, you are one of the biggest "full meltdown mode" MS fanbois and Apple basher here.

...

[fred @ Jul 29th 2008 2:45PM]

"HamiltonGuy @ Jul 29th 2008 1:05PM

@fred

"And as you can see they are in full meltdown mode. I've looked at several other sites, and these guys have completely lost it.

Their hate is just that consuming."

Pot, kettle, black... look in a mirror (if you can stand the sight) as from my few visits here reading various threads, you are one of the biggest "full meltdown mode" MS fanbois and Apple basher here.
"

Apple bashers?

And tell me how I "bash" Apple.

Do I...

Tell people that they shouldn't use Apple products?....No
Tell them that Apple makes crap and junk......No
Tell people that people that use Apple products are somehow less of a person than everyone else....No
Call Steve Jobs names along the lines of "Monkey Boy".....No
Constantly suggest that Apple "steals" ideas from others.....No
Say that products from Microsoft are the best for everyone.....No


Here's what I do say.

Treat everyone's products and services the same when they are reviewed, and not interject bias swipes at them just because they are from a company you dont like.

Give products a fair chance and airing, report the facts, and let people decide for themselves.

Knock off the cliched attacks like "no I know uses Windows" or "Everyone steals from Apple".

Recognize that not everyone needs what one company offers, and to respect that people have choices that may not be the one you personally like.

[Zak @ Jul 29th 2008 7:18PM]

Fred, you are one of the biggest Apple bashers here. If you disagree with that, you obviously don't read what you write. Every single Apple-related article on Engadget, you're there with your disparaging comments about Apple, their products and the people that use them. Obviously I'm not the only person that's noticed. Here are some choice quotes from you:

"The Apple fanatics are the ones lacking the ability to fathom this."

Yes, everybody who disagrees with you is an "Apple fanatic" and they're clearly too stupid to hold a conversation. Generalizations for the lose.

"Oh, and I'm using the Apple fanatic's standard of "success""

Strawman arguments. You automatically lose when you start using the strawman.

"you BOTH sound like raging idiots, spouting the same trite iFan BS."

Again, anybody with an opinion that differs from yours gets this response from you - especially if their opinion supports Apple in any conceivable way. Because we all know anybody who supports Apple is a rabid, braindead fanatic whose opinions aren't worth the bits they're printed on, am I right?

"Apple wingnuts are just becoming dumber by the day."

I'm seeing a pattern here.

"...you rather paste more iStories than anything else."

You don't even care what it is, as long as it supports Apple you don't bother to read it and treat them like an idiot. And you have the balls to call other people zealots? Wow.

"Is it me or are the Apple fanatics just getting more cartoonish by the day?"

"Are their products actually leading to brain rot?"

"Apple users will cover it up or pretend like they never existed."

"The Apple Protection Racket at its bare essence."

"I know you Apple fans just hate these phones"

"you iPhone fanatics"

"I know that a lot of Apple fans, especially those in the press, like to act as if they are all part of the Apple family, and are somehow personal friends with "the Steve" or "Steve-O" or whatever pet name they gave this guy"

Wow. I mean, just wow. You want to look in that mirror again and tell me who the zealot is here? Be honest now. This isn't nearly the end of all the quotes I could find, there are a *lot* more. Hopefully this will be the end of your pathetic attempts at trying to prove how non-biased you are.

[fred @ Jul 29th 2008 8:53PM]

"Fred, you are one of the biggest Apple bashers here. If you disagree with that, you obviously don't read what you write. Every single Apple-related article on Engadget, you're there with your disparaging comments about Apple, their products and the people that use them. Obviously I'm not the only person that's noticed. Here are some choice quotes from you:"

Choice quotes that never say anything about Apple(company) or Apple( Products)

"The Apple fanatics "

"iFan"

"Apple wingnuts"

"Apple users"

"The Apple Protection Racket"

"Apple fans"

"iPhone fanatics"


Hmmm I do indeed notice a pattern here.

I go after the extremist fanatics that use Apple products!

A-HA!!!!!!!!

Not Steve Jobs or the iPhone or the iPod , disparaging them for no other reason than they are Apple products, unlike (APPLE EXTREAMIST) are so fond of doing with products and services from a variety of companies, not just Microsoft.

If you want to lie to us and say that isn't going on, then go ahead and embarrass yourself.

An oh, since you've apparently had so much fun with my comment list, why dont you take the time to post the comments I was responding too?

What's that? You dont wanna? It would undercut your whole "argument"? But I'm sure the doozies from your fellow Apple users would make for great reading too.

I understand. Have a nice day anyhow.




Oh and btw, you can support Apple all you want, but if your support for Apple comes in the form of attacking everyone else, then that is something I will always respond too. Their are plenty of Apple users who don't behave in this way and are capable of offering complements to other companies products and services.

Try to be one yourself. Dont be a clak.

[fred @ Jul 29th 2008 9:18PM]

Oh, and it's worth noting that Zak doesn't know how post my quotes in proper context. Here is one example:

"you BOTH sound like raging idiots, spouting the same trite iFan BS."

Forgetting the fact that you are supposed to use three dote (...) to show you cut off a quote, he never even bothered to give you a clue what I was posting about. Here is that whole thing:

[POST I WAS RESPONDING TO]
"I think mitchell is referring to the industrial design of the keyboard and mouse. I agree they are pretty much black knockoffs of Apple's latest offerings.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

[MY RESPONSE]
Oh please, just stop.

It doesnt matter what the point was, *you BOTH sound like raging idiots, spouting the same trite iFan BS.* * = CUT OFF BY ZAK.
CONTINUING:

Ooooh knockoff, ooooh copycat, ooooooh they stole this from Apple! For Christ's sake, do you people even realize how silly you sound half of the time?


A couple of nutcases claiming that someone has yet again stolen Apple's lucky charms....um, design, and me telling them they are full of it. A post that was highly ranked btw. No bash at Apple or their products, which I see as totally separate from the people that take their love for their stuff to the extreme.

Bad, Fred, baaaaaaad.




So yeah, great job, Zak all around.

[Zak @ Jul 30th 2008 1:58PM]

Sorry fred, were you trying once again to prove how unbiased you are? I don't think it worked very well. I notice that you didn't respond to my multiple examples of how you generalize all Mac users (by insulting all of them in one fell swoop) and how you use strawman arguments to make points. Strawman arguments don't work, fred. You should try harder to not use them.

As with most Apple haters, your problem is that you think anybody who says anything good about Apple is a "fanatic". Even if what the person is saying is 100% true. For example you think I'm an Apple fanatic simply because I call you out when you say stupid things. By the way, that would be just about every post you make. And yet nowhere have I ever given any indication that I only use Apple products, or that I don't appreciate other companies' products.

Unless you'd care to prove me wrong, of course. No, go for it. I'll wait. Please, back this up:

"Their [sic] are plenty of Apple users who don't behave in this way and are capable of offering complements to other companies [sic] products and services.

Try to be one yourself. Dont be a clak."

I look forward to your irrefutable proof that I do, in fact, behave "in that way". When you fail, I'll be there to laugh at you. You, on the other hand, just don't like people who disagree with you as long as it involves not hating on Macs. That's not a very enlightened attitude, is it?

"A post that was highly ranked btw."

Ah. So can I take that to mean that you actually take the post rankings here seriously? Were you aware that any post that supports Apple to any degree, no matter how true it is, gets automatically downranked? If it's a post that rags on Apple, you can be sure it will get ranked up, even if it's total bullshit, like a lot of your posts are. The fact that you haven't figured this out yet is not really surprising to me. It involves using common sense, something you don't seem to possess in any significant measure.

But it's cute that you think post rankings matter, in a sort of "you're about as naive as they come" sort of way.

[SIC TR4NSIT @ Jul 29th 2008 1:16PM]

___________________________________________
************************************************************
COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC


I knew Engadget would not post this, so I took it upon myself.

http://draginol.impulsedriven.net/article/318845/No_Mac_zealots_Apple_didnt_invent_the_dock/
__________________________________________
***********************************************************

[Moose @ Jul 29th 2008 2:24PM]

I fail to see the point of that post relative to this thread.

[SIC TR4NSIT @ Jul 29th 2008 2:44PM]

Moose.>>
"I fail to see the point of that post relative to this thread."

Wow, I guess I was too cryptic when I said,
"COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC"

[Moose @ Jul 29th 2008 4:49PM]

I suppose I should have used the [/sarcasm] end tag...

because the two bars of solid lines, two bars of stars, and the all caps weren't enough for me [/sarcasm]

[matt w @ Jul 29th 2008 1:19PM]

First I should say that I'm a developer, and a big Mac person, so my bias is right out there from the beginning.

Two comments: first, from my understanding Vista runs better on better hardware, and kind of cant run on not so hot hardware. I think that may be something that people are neglecting. They probably ran the demo on Deep Blue. So it may be that folks who think it sucks performance-wise just have crap hardware. But it should run better than it does.

Second. Everyone knows you can find a way to do pretty much whatever you want on any modern OS. But having recently played with recent distros of Ubuntu, is there any rationale left for Windows? OS X, as a result of its Unix roots is certainly preferable to developers over Windows. And it looks awesome, and performs great. Ubuntu looks awesome and works awesome too, but I think it's slightly worse in usability and slightly better in terms of power.

Right now, XP and Vista both are very clunky in both regards. I understand that people like what they are used to, and that compatibility, I suppose, (though not really) is an issue, but really what's the rationale?

And to be on topic, the Mojave thing is a joke. It's neither entertaining or convincing. It's not scientific-- practically anti-scientific. I think the PC guy in the Mac commercials was a better advertisement for Microsoft.... at least he was funny.

[fred @ Jul 29th 2008 2:58PM]

First I should say that I'm a developer, and a big Mac person, so my bias is right out there from the beginning."

So what could we even begin to expect that would not be tilted totally against Microsoft?


"Two comments: first, from my understanding Vista runs better on better hardware, and kind of cant run on not so hot hardware."

((Slaps head))

That's why it ran so slow on my 200mhz Pentium II


"They probably ran the demo on Deep Blue."

Jesus Christ...


"Second. Everyone knows you can find a way to do pretty much whatever you want on any modern OS. But having recently played with recent distros of Ubuntu, is there any rationale left for Windows? "

As a person that uses Ubuntu, yes. I find it very arrogant to assume that people should just stop using Windows because Ubuntu exist.

I mean is their a rational for Apple, now that other PC makers make pretty hardware, and Ubuntu is free.

I can assume that your conclusion will be 180 degrees different than your first one.


"OS X, as a result of its Unix roots is certainly preferable to developers over Windows. And it looks awesome, and performs great."

That is known as a opinion which isnt shared by everyone...

" Ubuntu looks awesome and works awesome too, but I think it's slightly worse in usability and slightly better in terms of power."

For some people it does and for others it does not.

"Right now, XP and Vista both are very clunky in both regards. I understand that people like what they are used to, and that compatibility, I suppose, (though not really) is an issue, but really what's the rationale?"

You know if you deep-six the snotty attitude on this subject, you may be able to grasp that....maybe people like to use it.

((((((GASP))))))


"And to be on topic, the Mojave thing is a joke. It's neither entertaining or convincing. It's not scientific-- practically anti-scientific. I think the PC guy in the Mac commercials was a better advertisement for Microsoft.... at least he was funny"

So ads that even many Mac users say is dishonest is taken as more honest than video footage of real people showing real reactions. How on Earth???


Oh yeah!

"I'm a developer, and a big Mac person, so my bias is right out there from the beginning"

[Zak @ Jul 29th 2008 8:15PM]

Wow, Fred.

"You know if you deep-six the snotty attitude on this subject, you may be able to grasp that....maybe people like to use it.

((((((GASP))))))"

Who's got the snotty attitude again? Yeah, you might want to look up "hypocrisy" in the dictionary.... and then not engage in it any more. Nobody likes a zealous hypocrite. Yes, I'm talking about you.

[Decoy @ Jul 29th 2008 8:50PM]

Zac, you've got the snotty attitude?

[Lawrence @ Jul 29th 2008 1:31PM]

@matt w
Glad you go ahead and show your bias and from your comment it shows.

How exactly is UNIX easier to code for and preferable to developers. What is your scientific experiment on this statement.

"compatibility ... not really an issue". Hate to break it to you, but that was the MAIN reason why a lot of reviews were bad for vista in the beginning. Oh that's right, now that it's mostly resolved, lets find something else to pick on.

And this was not a scientific study, was a focus group and if you knew anything about scientific studies (sociological ones), this is pretty accurate and sound. Random people taken from an agency's list, selected by their attitude towards vista.

The PC guy was not funny, he was an insult to everyone using windows software, and if you remember it started before vista came along, back when XP was the latest OS.

[matt w @ Jul 29th 2008 10:59PM]

@lawrence

What's Windows software? Windows?

[renzo.gaspary @ Jul 29th 2008 1:33PM]

I will give Microsoft props on the fact that they did poing out something very important with this comercial. Just because someone tells you something is bad for them does not mean it's bad for everyone and you should try it out always first hand before you cast your final judgement. I run Windows XP and I am very happy with it, but allot of my peers at school have new laptops that have Vista. Some of them are happy and some are anoyed by it and either remove it or gone the dual boot route.

Sorry for the bad spelling, english is not my first laguage.

[Bryan @ Jul 29th 2008 1:49PM]

I know so many people who hate Vista but can't tell me why. Everytime someone says that it sucks in front of me, I ask them what sucks about it and they can't tell me. Apple's propaganda campaign has actually been working and most people don't even realize it.

The fact that the author, Paul "the mac fanboy, windows hating blogger" Miller, wrote the article in this kind of fashion is very disappointing. His update post just makes things even worse. What a sad excuse for a human being. Have you ever used Vista? Do you even know why you hate Vista? Did you update your last blog post on a MacOS? I think you need to disclose if you're using a Mac or not right now.

[Mike @ Jul 29th 2008 1:49PM]

"We're hearing you guys loud and clear in comments." Don't apologize to the Microsoft shills. Remember when Microsoft tried to copy Apple's "Switch" campaign and was forced to pull their adds because they weren't truthful! Now Microsoft is trying, ever so desperately, to counter Apple's current campaign...and it's only a matter of time before we uncover the lies & trickery underneath... well, clearly it didn't take that much time at all...did it?

[Patrick @ Jul 29th 2008 1:53PM]

I was a windows Vista ultimate user for 6 months. For the first 10 minutes I used the software, I thought it was great!... also... I bet for the first week I used the software I thought it was great. Then after some glitches and getting tired of it asking me if I was sure I wanted to do something all the time, I got pretty fed up. I also got fed up when months after I bought the ultimate version there was no significant update or benefit to having it. So I bought an iMac and its the best computer I've ever owned. This little MS PR campaign doesn't prove anything about Vista.

[Bryan @ Jul 29th 2008 1:55PM]

@Matt: Your worst performance and price is not a valid excuse for people buying new computers. If you're upgrading and it'll decrease performance significantly, fine, it doesn't make sense to upgrade. Windows XP had more overhead than Windows 98 also and XP ran significantly slower than 98. New computers now are fast enough that it can handle Vista without any problems and if you switched back to XP, you'd find very little difference in speeds. New computers come with Windows Vista, I don't think it would be wise by trying to get WinXP on your new computer when it comes with Vista by default.

[matt w @ Jul 29th 2008 10:58PM]

@bryan

I agree completely. But I think that may have been part of why Vista got a bum rap-- people installing on older machines.

[Brien @ Jul 29th 2008 1:57PM]

First let me say that I've been using Vista for two years now, and I love it. ...Then allow me to explain that I love it because it's SO MUCH better than XP. It's more secure, it's more reliable, and MUCH more efficient with networking tasks. The new IP stack is one of the biggest things going for Vista. I just love that I don't have to think about spyware, viruses, crahes, etc. anymore.

On the Movie Maker, "Photo Stitching", etc... I'm seriously unimpressed. Movie Maker is VERY limited. And my digital camera has photo stitching in it's tiny ROM.

I think the file tagging abilities in Vista, and Start | Search technique, Previous Versions, OneCare and Media Center are some of the best "common user" features. They should be pushing those instead of the aforementioned fluffware.

[rodsky @ Jul 29th 2008 1:57PM]

10 minutes is enough time to log onto myspace, get on aim, check email etc. if all that works well then its good enough for the majority of people out there

[Brian f @ Jul 29th 2008 2:10PM]

I work at an electronics store so I get to see this battle of ignorance first hand. A typical exchange with a confused sheep-person:

Me: Hi, how can I help you?

Sheep: I'm just curious, did they fix the bugs in Vista?

Me: Excuse me?

Sheep: You know, all those horrid problems with Vista, it barely runs at all! The bugs!

Me: Well, explain to me the problems you are having with Vista.

Sheep: I don't run Vista.

Me: ........:sigh:...... They sure have!

On a side note @ PhanBoi Matt w., Crashes logged so far on my laptop which came with XP that I later upgraded to Vista Home Premium: 0 It runs absolutely fine after a year and a half BTW. Crashes logged with the only Apple device in my life the iPhone 3G: At LEAST 2 per day. The Safari browser closes itself ~every 30 mins or so. The HTC I had previously ran Windows CE crashed ~ZERO times in the year I had it. I feal like I'm testing some new alpha prototype for Apple. I guess I'm not smug enough to use it. Mobile ME? Don't get me started on that shit storm.

[matt w @ Jul 29th 2008 11:02PM]

@Brian

Huh? I never said anything negative about Vista. My criticisms were of Windows in general, and from my perspective. My real question is: what's better about it? I'm not saying it doesnt get the job done, or that it's not "fine". But what's special about it? What does it do better than other OSes?

I like OS X and I like some of the *nix distros. I mildly dislike Windows, but it's totally usable.

[Moose @ Jul 29th 2008 2:12PM]

I actually don't dislike Vista (although I still use XP), but the idea that sitting down for a guided tour of the OS is anything akin to living or working with it on a daily basis (which seems to be the basis for most Vista critics) is ludicrous. I think a more compelling argument is the OS's livabillity, not its gloss.

[oliver hart @ Jul 29th 2008 2:13PM]

so sick of apple hyping and microsoft bashing on engadget.



www.ryanblock.com

[miro @ Jul 29th 2008 2:19PM]

OEM XP installations stink just as bad as OEM Vista installations, I think it's just as much the hardware vendors' fault as anyone. Macs don't have this issue, obviously.. On the flip side, without all the included bloatware, PCs would not be at the low price points that make them accessible to more people.

I just bought a new Dell laptop with Vista Premium and it had all sorts of basic problems... video flickering, wifi dropouts, etc. I immediately reinstall just Vista without all the "features" software and it's been an excellent machine ever since. I would do the exact same thing with a new XP machine.

Detractors, if you actually watch the main presentation, every single "user" admits they don't actually use Vista and are basing their rating on opinion and hearsay.

Engadget calls this a low-handed experiment, but in reality it's just good advertising. Look at all the free press Microsoft is getting from the campaign already. I'm sure your thank-you card is in the mail... keep up the good work! :-)

[tubes @ Jul 29th 2008 2:22PM]

"If these users had been sent home for a week or so with a Vista machine -- or better yet, a copy of Vista to install themselves -- that'd be a whole different story, but they weren't"

Well, give ANYONE a week with a product and the shine starts to wear off. That doesn't necessarily make it bad. Plus, most people just buy the OS on the computer.

(On a personal note, even upgrading to Mac OS X Tiger years ago on my Power Mac was no joy until after I erased everything and installed clean. I learned my lesson from that experience. Now it's only clean installs for me.)

[wiregr @ Jul 29th 2008 2:22PM]

Hey, I liked vista too the first 10 minutes I worked with it. Then it crashed, and my opinion of it plummeted. It's better than it used to be, and it's actually usable now, but it doesn't mean that I have any semblance of faith in it in terms of stability or compatibility.

[UltimateSephiroth @ Jul 29th 2008 2:26PM]

I'd like to ask this one question.

If you guys speculating that "a 10-minute PR talk can convince them the wrong way" really think that it's only because the PR talk was the only reason, should the people who got in the Mojave Project have noticed that the OS was really Vista? I personally think that this act opened many eyes to believe that Vista does not suck. Though you may say I am a MS fanboy, because I'm using Vista as my primary OS.

[Ian @ Jul 29th 2008 2:30PM]

LOL.

This shows one thing: APPL marketing kicked MSFT in the balls. All those "I'm a Mac" ads did their trick.

I use Vista64. I love it. It works. It's reliable, and I installed it on my very own, even. It is superior to XP in every way.

[Lancelot @ Jul 29th 2008 2:33PM]

To bad M$ didn't spend the time, energy & money to do something more productive, like fix some of Vista's issues that still exist, or just as important work on their home server OS. Talk about another piece of crap..

[fred @ Jul 29th 2008 2:47PM]

You mean to tell me that everyone that works at MS worked on this? The whole company was shuttered and all of the money was spent on this, right?

Just stop, please.

[Mark Anderson @ Jul 29th 2008 3:59PM]

Specifically what issues?

Go on. I'll maybe give you the file transfer speed issue but what else?

[Murph @ Jul 29th 2008 2:41PM]

So how does Leoptard run on your G4 1.2ghz with 512mb or ram?

[Zak @ Jul 29th 2008 5:41PM]

"Leoptard"? Really? It runs fine on older G4s. Let me guess, you've never tried it. What a surprise.

[Shawn K @ Jul 29th 2008 3:30PM]

As much as everyone hates vista, it's actually quite decent...down below UAC, etc.

All honesty, disable UAC and half of the services that are enabled by default and you're already on your way. UAC is what has made many older apps crash.

Yes driver support is/was a pain, because MS wants everything to be certified...you can still force old drivers to work.
Now that many companies have updated for Vista support, alot of these issues are in the past.

Basically MS decided to standardize many things, some of which could have been executed better...but it aims for higher stability.

Now I've taken both Vista and XP and stripped both down beyond what most people would ever attempt and I have had much better performance in Vista with Aero enabled.
If you don't like Vista, at least try the trial of Server 2008, which is pretty much Vista Premium tweaked for performance and then begin commenting.

[shiv @ Jul 29th 2008 4:18PM]

Engadget,

I bet when you interview writers, the interview question must have been "On a scale of 1 - 10 How do you rate Apple and Microsoft" If the person answered 13 for Apple and -5 Microsoft, that would be enough to land a job for this blog right?

Seriously, Every Microsoft article, you have managed to put a negative spin on it. By every article i mean most of the major ones that catch a lot of attention.

On another note, i haven't seen any negative postings about the Apple ads. What am i thinking! You guys love those ads.

[rp @ Jul 29th 2008 4:52PM]

So, you don't think that Microsoft inviting participants to a Microsoft product screening at some sort of Microsoft headquarter type of place would sway anyone to give inflated ratings? A 10 minute demo? Look, it can open your favorite programs and does so in a flashy, interesting way! Day to day use of OS, especially for a Mac user with little Windows experience? I'm willing to bet that those ratings instantly tank.
I'm sorry, but I've tried the crappy Tuscani pasta, I've tried the Prime Rib Burger from Carl's Jr., and NEITHER of them are "restaurant quality."
I'd like to see an independent research firm come up with the same results. The study is automatically gamed when you get the participants hyped up about possibly using some sort of awesome future OS at Microsoft's own facilities with special Microsoft people.
You can bash Paul all you want, but in the end, this basically proves that if you test drive a car and think it's good without further research, especially after it's been hyped to hell by the dealer wanting you to buy it, then you're probably a fucking idiot.

[Forrest @ Jul 29th 2008 5:14PM]

I really wonder how much most of the people posting comments on this story have read about the actual 'experiment'. I couldn't find anywhere that anyone claimed this was some sort of attempt at science.

For those of you too blinded by rage, or too lazy to follow the read links, here's one bit:

"For those new to the Mojave Experiment, it's a focus group effort we initiated a few weeks ago. We interviewed and polled 120 participants in San Francisco, in hopes of better understanding everyday users' perceptions of Windows Vista and seeing whether there really is a gap between perception and reality. We wanted to see how people reacted to Windows Vista when they were not aware they were seeing Windows Vista. We recorded our discussions, and today you can see them for yourself."

Key words here:

Focus Group
"hopes of better understanding everyday users' perceptions"
"We wanted to see how people reacted"

Ok, here's a little bit more from the blog:

"Finally, some people have asked if Mojave is the big marketing project we're working on - it's not. The Mojave Experiment is just that: an experiment we conducted on the fly that yielded interesting results. We're publishing the video today because we think you'll also find it interesting."

If you believe the blog, it was done for their own good. It appears that the results are marketing gold, so of course they're going to use it as such. Those of you (including the author of the post) that are crying foul that they didn't follow the scientific method, and because of that 'the results' can't be trusted...do you think they give a fuck what you think? If you think their methods led to bias in the results, then just ignore them.

If the videos they've posted ARE legit, I find them pretty interesting as they are what I would expect. I wouldn't dare make a judgment one way or the other without more information, though.

[ToeCutter @ Jul 29th 2008 4:55PM]

After breezing thru the comments, I'm not really sure why all the pissy whining from either camp about this silly Mojave commercial? It seems to me that this demonstrates just how freaking ignorant most members of our American consumerist culture really are. the first woman draws a big zero on the page after explaining only seconds before they she has "no real experience" with Vista, but feels confident giving it a big zero. That pretty dumb.

The silliest thing about this story is that MS has managed to generate almost 300 comments on this thread, far more than I've seen at Engadget for quite sometime.

Wake up, folks. MS and Apple alike want nothing more than to jack you for a few thousand bucks a year while making you feel good about it...

[Ken @ Jul 29th 2008 5:11PM]

Dude the iPhone is a Cell Phone, Vista is a desktop OS.

your comment makes no sense.

[IanH @ Jul 29th 2008 5:45PM]

Microsoft just pulled a Pizza Hut.

[joe blow @ Jul 29th 2008 5:45PM]

Most Windows users were looking forward to Vista. When it came, the driver support was (and still is) terrible, the interface was significantly & unnecessarily different, and most of all, it wouldn't run on lower end machines. Even stutters on mid level machines. Vista is all about eye candy at the expense of system resources and hidden (obtrusive ones too) security features that were, or could be, handled with XP updates.

I want my OS to be efficient and transparent. Vista isn't even close, and it brings no innovation to computing that would make one overlook it's deficiencies. PR is not going to save Vista. Fuck you MS, for pawning a loser off on us.

[inno8sky @ Jul 29th 2008 8:00PM]

If you had half a clue, you'd be dangerous. Vista supports more hardware than any OS in history.. that includes XP. It has plenty of innovation, and the eyecandy is just a minor part of the new underlying technology.