Figuring out which NVIDIA GPUs are defective -- it's a lot
By Nilay Patel 
posted Jul 31st 2008 6:13PM
posted Jul 31st 2008 6:13PM
So now that HP's joined Dell in releasing information on which laptops have those defective NVIDIA GPUs, we can sort of piece together which chips are faulty -- and just as had been rumored, it looks like basically every Geforce 8600M and 8400M chip is affected. That's not good news for NVIDIA, which has been saying that only "previous-generation" chips were problematic -- unless the chipmaker is planning on updating the hugely popular 8x00 series sometime, say, now, that's not exactly true, now is it? Other affected chips appear to be in the GeForce Go 7000 and 6000 lines, as well as the Quadro NVS 135M and the Quadro FX 360M, but that's just looking at model numbers, and we can't be exactly sure. We'd say that if you've got a machine with any one of these GPUs, it might be wise to call in and see what your laptop maker is going to do -- and it would be smart for NVIDIA to come right out and say exactly how big and how bad this problem really is.Read - Dell list of machines and patch
Read - HP list of machines, extended warranty info
Sh*t.
You took the words right of my mouth. The 7600 in my Pavilion DV9074ea has been toasted twice requiring a motherboard change both times. I've told HP many times that my laptop is hotter than it should be but they have always told me that the excessive heat is within the limits. Nvidia is in some big ass mess now.
Any word on VAIO units affected?
Is this really as big a problem as Engadget is making out to be? I've got a GeForce 8600 on my lappy and it seems to be running fine...
Should I be worried? And what exactly CAN they do to fix whatever is wrong? I mean either way we'd have to part with our laptop for a few days (if we're lucky) and weeks if it goes the typical route right?
Do you game?
I have an 8600m too and it has been fine! It gets to like 90º C on Crysis, but it hasn't gone kaput...
I thought it was number of temperature cycles that mattered, not necessarily just how hot it gets...
My cousin's computer uses one of these, and he returned the first one for graphics issues (it made a clicking noise when he used anything that required major graphic use), and now this second one freezes up if we try to use it for games too long (Halo, MoM, Wow, ect.).
CURSE YOU NVIDIA!!!
: - (
Random heat-related failures in an entire product line due to engineering negligence is generally something to be concerned about.
If you aren't upset now, you will be a month, a year or two down the line when your GPU randomly separates from its bonds to the substrate and renders your notebook an aerodynamically-inept Frisbee.
That said, I'd consider it slightly serious.
I don't game on my laptop....at least not right now.
I might play Spore when it comes out.
Shit I just read that last post.
My laptop does get hot very quickly. As very intense heat.
Now I'm angry...I think I'm gonna call my laptop manufacturer soon. Cuz this is ridiculous. Why would they sell me the product if one of the components is known to have issues.
I own an xps m1330 with one of the faulty 8400m chips. And that thing got hot, fast. On vista, the gpu reached 100C when i tested it. In ubuntu, it got around 95C. Finally it crapped out and only displayed vertical color lines. So they replaced it, but I've no idea if I got a replacement without the defect (probably not).
In any event, I'm not installing that BIOS. I'd rather wait for the chip to get fried again.
"Engineering Defect"???
and nVidia has the most rigorous screening for hiring engineers
this doesn't sound good
It is as bad as engadget says. I've had to have two laptops replaced. No... there won't be any warning sign... you'll just power up one day and see a bunch of artifacts all over the screen (yes.. during boot). Sometimes the screen will just go black after a few minutes.
One laptop had the 135M on board... so the whole mainboard had to be replaced.
What we're talking about here is basically a design flaw that causes heat to prematurely kill the cards. So it's a big deal in the same way that the RRoD was. These seem to be lasting a bit longer, but massive dieoffs much sooner than GPUs would usually be expected to call it quits sound pretty likely.
Dell's response so far as pretty much been to release an update that blows the fan constantly, presumably trying to push back the inevitable deaths as long as they can. Or at least long enough to push them out of warranty... If they don't get a warranty extension on GPU replacements, I think I see a class action suit in someone's future.
i had 2 Geforce 8600M crap out on me in the same dell laptop... nice to know i'm not alone
You won't really be playing SPORE on a normal laptop.
The Games for Windows panel in Vista shows my laptop with a rating of 3, when the creature creator demo requires a rating of 4.
首先
was this typed from a defective GPU?
He keeps posting it in other threads too, a quick Google Translate says it means "At the neck" in Japanese.
no... it means "First" in this context.
你会说普通话吗?
Yes, it means first, but it isn't in Japanese. It is in Putonghua/Mandarin.
shit, you guys went all x-files on me?
heh, Mandarin fail!
Hey man, this is a family blog! Watch your language!
I got shǒu (首) xiān (先), which means something along the lines of "former leader" or maybe "first poem" in Mandarin.
It means "Firstly" in english.
P.S. I am a naive Cantonese speaker.
the chinese don't say first..
they say sofa
@roj
very funny.
Wow looks like my next video card will be ATI.......
I only wish Dell would put ATI cards in their laptops.
sony started using ATI in its new line of laptops
The Studio line uses ATI, would be my choice if I were looking for a laptop
or the nvidia 9 series, which also has switchable graphics. actually, many 9 series GPUs are being sold now. i just got an hp dv5t with a 512MB 9600M GT.
damn, now i have to learn the RADEON numbering scheme.
I have a GeForce 8600M GT in my macbook pro... problem?
yes, buying a macbook pro indicates a problem.
Aw- play nice... I've used macs since I was about 4- and I haven't gone off the deep end yet.
relax. it's his choice. no brand is "better" than the other. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I wish there was a way to stop all this arguing over which is better...
Yes. There are a number of MacBook Pro users that are experiencing video problems, likely because of the 8600. Sadly, I'm one of them. There's a thread on it in the Apple Support Discussion Boards. Unfortunately, Apple hasn't addressed the issue, and the solution they've been applying--replacing the logic board--is cost-prohibitive for those whose computers aren't under warranty, and moreover, a number users who've had their boards replaced have seen their video fail again later on.
i just recently had to have my logic board replaced to deal with the problem. my screen just stopped working one day, and everything else was fine (used voiceover to track down what was wrong) but sys profiler was registering the on board graphics (intel x3100) instead of the 8600mgt. i've got apple care, so it wasn't a problem, but it was an arse not having a laptop for a few days.
and i game, occasionally, in windows, for what it's worth.
It seems like CrapVidia unites us in sorrow: Dell, HP, Toshiba, heck... even Apple... It doesn't matter what kind of a fanboy you are... we're all equally screwed... So MBP users, you guys shouldn't worry too much since you can't play games in OSX. What'u say... you're notebook is an oven when working in Photoshop... well, I guess it redefines the expression "HOTTT" laptop :)
So there's still no definitive list as to which chips are affected? Amazing. Nvidia, wtf?
My union is supporting a consumer recall of affected Nvidia chips. See www.recallnvidia.org for more info about the chip problem and our recall effort.
Damn it, and I thought I was safe with my Geforce Go 7700. Oh well, looks like no more overclocking for me, although to be honest, I don't think it has ever gone above 70C under load, so I might be safe to keep punishing that thing... actually, the chance of it melting down kind of makes me want to see just how far it'll go, and for how long. Asus' warranties are good for things like that.
Ah, you must have an Asus G1 as well. Mine's been stable and stays rather cool despite playing games for hours. I wonder if the problems mostly lie within onboard mounted GPUs versus MXM type cards like the Asus used.
Has Apple released any information about the problem in their laptops? I have a Macbook pro I bought in March, and it's getting extremely warm...
Macs just work... warm.
Indeed they do work.. warm. My GPU is at 140F while my CPU is at 128F... but the base is just at 99F
@b-rad...
That doesn't seem warm at all. If your laptop CPU runs at under 70C, it is not warm. My m1330 CPU was running at 80-90C before they flashed the bios and replaced some parts. Now it never hits 80C, and is usually in the 50s. Laptops are built to handle very high temps.
Ultimately, I don't think you're at risk of damaging any parts until you hit 70C+ temps, and even then there is a low possibility until you hit 80C+.
I use SMC Fan control, I always have the fan at 4000 RPM to keep everything around 50 degrees C, if I leave it at the 2000 it hits 70 or 80 pretty quickly. If I play halo i got it at 6000 RPM and it still hits 80.
arrgh!
I just recently bought my MBP, it's only a week old and you know what,,
im living in Thailand and the ambient temp around here really does not help the ventilation at all.
I couldn't touch the upper aluminum part above my keyboard( at the hinge) and the upper part of the speaker when my machine was only around 70% ( i didn't install any games yet)
Shall I just burnt the GPU out a couple of time since I still have a year of warranty left ;)... man I'm going to buy those apple care thingie... hmmm.
@pete YES get the 3 year warranty. I live in Thailand too and the MacBook Pro gets extremely hot - I now use it with a laptop cooling pad when plugged in (which is when it gets hottest). Cost $6 and works exceedingly well with the MBP because the MBP uses the outside/back of the case as a large heat sink so the cooling pad actually really works there.
I have had multiple hard drive failures here over the years and I suspect it's due to heat more than anything.
The 3 year warranty costs $350 which seems a lot, but you know why it's so expensive? Because it's highly likely your MBP will be needing repairs in that time period. Especially with added stress from the ambient heat/humidity.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the 9x00 the "next generation" of nVidia chips, making the 8x00 technically "last gen"...? so, really, nVidia's statement wouldn't be wrong.....
Still, there are many laptops that still use those chips, so nVidia better sort out this problem, even if it only affects a few...
8600M GT user here....waiting for a fix other than a BIOS update that turns the fan on full blast all the time.
ref: XPS 1530 purchased in January of 2008
"No. Be afraid. Be very afraid."
Specs for MacBook Pro:
Graphics and video support
15-inch MacBook Pro
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support; 256MB of GDDR3 memory on 2.4GHz configuration; 512MB of GDDR3 memory on 2.5GHz and 2.6GHz configurations
17-inch MacBook Pro
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics processor with dual-link DVI support and 512MB of GDDR3 memory.
Do you wonder why there are so many problems with newer MacBook Pros getting so hot with an aluminum chassis that they will roast your nuts?
Heating is not a problem with the NVIDIA GPU, I have an ATI MBP and it gets just as hot.
@ kevinm
yeah... they're both equally hot... meaning your nuts are equally as toasty.
i'm starting to wonder if it impacts reproductive capacity (not sexual capacity, just reproductive for the mildly illiterate haters bound to make stupid comments).
Doesn't the iMac use lap top chips? I just got an iMac two months ago with a 8600, do I fall under this?
I wouldn't think so, especially judging from how hot an iMac gets. I'm guessing it is either a customized 8600 to fit in AIO form factor, or it is integrated, but I'm guessing it is discrete, as iMacs are frickin' ovens lol.
My HP with a 7000M hasn't caused me any problems so far, although it does run a little warm. But it's still under warranty, so that's good.
Yay! That was a close one, my ThinkPad T61 (AMAZING laptop) has a Quadro NVS 140M, and from what I've heard, it is based on the 8400, so I am surprised to find that it isn't affected.
Its not every 8600 because dell states that my inspiron 1520 isnt affected by this.
I'd be at least 100x more sympathetic towards Nvidia if they hadn't been the world's largest douche when they were going after Intel. As it stands. Sit and spin on your crisis asshats. Sit and spin.
+1
twat
For all of you who have MacBook Pros. Kiss your machines good bye. When the card goes, it'll be a logic board replacement. If you have AppleCare, hold on to it. If you don't have AppleCare. Buy it. Depending on how much load you put on it, its a matter of time.
Thanks Nvidia!
wow.. glad i have the older ATI MBP's
fuck you nvidia, fuck you very much.
Oh, so this does affect MBPs, and explains all my graphics problems. Glad I have Applecare...
I am just out of warranty, too late to get extended too. So my only hope now is a class action lawsuit or a voluntary warranty extension / fix for all those affected, like they did with the iBook.
This is Apple so chances of them getting hit with a class action are pretty high.
In the meantime, I am going to cool my MBP like crazy. smcFanControl, and USB cooling pad.
Anyone know what ASUS is doing in response? would like a new g1s-A1 :D or... what would be even better... a credit towards a different laptop.... fat chance.
Got a Vaio SZ here with 8400M. Every time I run in Speed mode (uses dedicated graphics) the laptop has stutters, and has general problems which I blamed on Vista all the freakin' time. Except now I've been running on Intel graphics under Stamina mode, and f*ck me, but it works faster in general windows apps (loading + starting). So maybe it's my imagination, but I'm sure there is something to do with nVidia... Has anyone had any experience like this on Vaio's?
I've got the same laptop. I'll have to keep an eye on this.
well im running in a sz750 and runs warm, like 70C in idle, i think that sony should issue an statement too
I have an HP dv2890 w/ an 8400M GS card but it's not under HP's list.
Dunno whether to be glad or worried.
I also have the 8400M GS but on an HP Pavillion dv6780se. Mines not listed either. I really hope it doesnt crap out on me.
Not all NVIDIA 8 series are affected just the particular batches listed.
umm...my notebook is listed as defective by HP, and my graphics card is at 101C...i don't think thats normal, and I am only running firefox...sometimes it gets hotter but i don't think it ever reached the slowdown threshold of 130C...but seriously, is anyone else experiencing this???
Clean your vents.
Same here, get some compressed air or (i know it's a pain) take it apart and clean dust off the vents. Laptops tend to pick up a lot of dust, especially through the bottom vents.
Is my crap GeForce Go 6150 affected? I want a free upgrade...
8600 GT - Plays F.E.A.R., wow fine, but does definitely get warm - hot.
Age of Empires 3: Twice i've had it on a coffee table and over heat to the point where it literally just cut off. System fan was rolling full blast @ the time.
I had most of the setting turn to high, but not all. I'll go back and look at them, and report back
Compal FL90
C2D T7500
2 Gig's PC5400, 1 stick
160 Gig 7200 RPM HD
Nvidia 8600 GT 512mb
I sure hope my T61p's Quadro 570m won't ever make that list... I'd seriously cry...
I don't know about the T61p, but my T61 and it's Quadro 140M are probably affected. Too bad, I love this laptop, ThinkPad T-Series= Best Laptop Ever.
BLOART!!
I was really hoping to see my tx2000 on that list..
I'd love to return it for a tx2500... Alas, I've had no issues :'(
this is actually some good news for AMD...it can hope to sell more of the ATI cards and cover up some of the losses
Well thank you Engadget for making me shit myself for no good reason. I have been bricking myself about that my vostro 1400 with an 8400GS will fail and i have void the warranty.
But now you are bassically implying almost every popular laptop chip in the last 2 years from nvidia has the issue i struggle to take this at face value anymore.
So the fact that Dell has issued a BIOS update for the Vostro 1400 doesn't worry you?
So only a matter of time before Lenovo comes out too, huh. There's a whole batch of T61p's out there with those Quadro FX570Ms, including mine. Freaking fantastic.
I've spent over two hours arguing with Dell over this issue. They insist that my 8400M is not faulty because it has not failed yet.
I was told that the BIOS change to run the fan all the time came directly from nVidia and is considered a "fix" for the issue.
Oh, wait! I just talked (IM'd) with Dell tech support and apparently the M1530 isn't affected by any of this, no matter what GPU it has. I wish I could paste in the transcript of the conversation (it was hilarious), but it took 40 minutes to get the guy(?) to answer my original question of whether or not my computer might be affected. He basically said it wasn't affected. So nothing to worry about.
Dell is the best!
Nothing like a good GeFarce hip in your lappie, is there?
Great! I have Toshiba Satalite SLI1, with dual 8600M GT Video cards in SLI mode...
If only there was some sort of official recall or something. And if their was, how long will I be without my computer? Days, Weeks, Months?
They will probably have to repalce the whole motherboard, as the chips are probably hard wired to it.
Meh if I decide not to deal with any recall, and my vid card dies, it is the stores problem, as I purchased an extended warranty. Worst case, I get my $2,000 back on a gift card and can pick out a new gaing laptop.
umm, this might explain why my 8600M GT is clocking in at 115 C with only firefox and mail open.
presently idling at 62 C - 144 F
nothing but safari runnin...
now when i reboot to Vista and run TF2, HL anything, or COD4... critical fans and heat... graphics looks dang good and it doesn't glitch or lag or shutter and stumble... but I'm pretty sure Crysis would cause a minor nuclear reaction.
Maybe Apple will decide to do something and backcharge it to nVidia a la no payment in full.
I do wish I had an 8800 in this thing like what's in the iMac.
Well this is bad news for me. Reading this kind of gave me a roller coaster feeling. At first I was like "ohh damn I'm using that video card on a Dell laptop" and then at the bottom there's a link to Dell fix and then I went like "oh good there is a fix" and then finally realizing that list of laptops there did not include mine made me think "oh damn, the problem is still there." Or maybe I don't need the fix? I'm not quite sure.
We've got this, and now some people are predicting Apple will kiss off Intel and go with nVidia chipsets? I'm thinking no.
my 8400 in my m1330 is gone already after only a few months of use. It's not even hot, but when I turn on my computer, I get a blank screen even though it's booting normally.
So if I get a motherboard replacement, is there any chance the new graphics card will just fall prey to the same problem after a few months? Did nvidia correct the problem with these graphics chips at all? I'm pretty sure no one knows for sure, but any advice will be appreciated.
I've got a toshiba satellite, with a GeForce Go 7900 GTX in it. I got the extended warranty, and thank god - it died after about a year?
I just got it back...and it is already stuttering funny. After reading this, I'm going to send it in. Anyone else on the Toshiba side having problems??
Dell M1330 users can use the copper plate mod on their GPU to prolong the life and greatly reduce the GPU temperatures.