Carmack says iPhone is "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined"
By Donald Melanson 
posted Aug 1st 2008 4:37PM
posted Aug 1st 2008 4:37PM
We already knew that Id Software co-founder John Carmack was on board with the iPhone to some extent, but at the now-happening QuakeCon 2008 in Dallas he's revealed just how impressed with the device he really is. According to Apple Insider, while Carmack admits that graphics memory could be a limiting factor, he describes the phone's hardware as equivalent to a Dreamcast and almost on par with a PlayStation 2 and the original Xbox. He also sees it as far superior, at least in terms of raw specs, than the two big dedicated handheld consoles out there, saying that is "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined." Unfortunately, he didn't have any actual games to show off, but he did at least confirm that Id has two "tentative titles" in the works, including a "conventional mobile game," and one that pushes the iPhone's graphics capabilities.
It'll be interesting to see how Sony and Nintendo react with their next iterations of their devices.
Apple will go nowhere in the 'gaming' market unless they add some analog sticks and buttons. Conventional handheld games just don't work in the iPhone for factor. That said, they may easily take the crown in the cell phone gaming genre (Nokia just isn't trying hard enough).
somehow i doubt that apple will target nintendo with the next ipod touch...
but if you're a fanboy, anything's possible, right?
PEOPLE! Don't be silly!
The gaming ADD-ON will be presented by Apple LATER.
Current new iPhone 3G is already ready for it.
Have you seen 2 little holes near dock-connector with screws?
Apple never made anything so ugly like that holes with visible screws.
This holes was made for gaming keypad add-on and they're help to hold the device in it securely.
The add-on will be like PSP without screen - you'll need just to insert the iPhone inside it (with connecting DOck connector) - and you will have a real gaming device!
THAT'S ALL!
This Gaming add-on will be announced SOON!
First, LOL,
London, U.K - Islington
More powerful??? The proof is in the pudding
Wtf I had no idea this old iPhone had power. Now why the hell can't they fix the stupid text messaging bug in the new firmware. I gave up jailbreking (for now) for this stupid slow text input??
How can you know your old iPhone had power? You have no software to play with other than the build in ones.
FAIL, Apple fanboy.
Can I see some god damn proof because all he does is claims.
More powerful than the original Xbox??? Who is this guy kidding?
Thats not what he said, idiot.
He said it was almost on par with the PS2 and original Xbox.
As in, your reading comprehension is almost on par with a 4 year old child.
I never mentioned Apple.
Your narcissism immediately reminds be of people who should be strapped to a chair and beaten with hammers.
@Lowest Ranked
Was that a George Carlin Reference? Awesome!
hm wait. on par with the original xbox?
okay DS yes, PSP yes, PS2 mayyyybe
but the original Xbox? 733mhz, Geforce 3.5
versus an arm processor UNDERCLOCKED to 412mhz ??? omfg this guy is on that ganja weed!
Show me the iPhone playing BLACK with some antialiasing.
Apple sucks. It can't play GTA while on an airplane so it can't be better
No, it's not.
FYI: Imagination Technologies (PowerVR) makes the GPU in the iPhone and the Dreamcast.
That said, I don't think they are quite on par and Mr. Carmack is using a bit of hyperbole. I do believe the DS + PSP assertion.
After thinking about this a minute, I'll have to revise my statement. What Mr. Carmack is actually saying is that you could similar visuals on the iPhone as the last gen consoles. Given that the iPhone is half VGA (half the screen needs roughly half the performance), this interpretation is more correct that a straight graphics performance comparison and much less of an overstatement.
Sounds better than most conventional mobile games.
Fail, LOL,
Orange, California - USA
Neccessary??? See how annoying that is
What a silly thing to say
I can honestly say, but I don't speak for everyone here:
You annoy the fuck out of me.
Enjoy your weekend.
All the power of a PSP, all the gaming possibilities as one of those wooden mazes with the steel balls.
Stick to PC's Carmack.
Oh hai there.
Get back to me when an iPhone can play any game at a res higher than 480x320 with 35+ FPS.
Enjoy driving your battery life into the ground and enjoy eating that non-user replaceable battery, as well.
Dude, you make apple fanboys like me look bad.
Just shut up.
And you is is fanboy is.
could you be anymore of a tool?
Well Carmack is a jackass
I don't feel like this is a fair comparison, at least in the ds's case because it is in a completely different price range. As far as the PSP is concerned though i can't really speak because i don't know.
The iphone costs more than the DS and PSP combined... $170 for the PSP, $120 for the DS, $600 for the iPhone (not subsidized). Even the cheapest iPod Touch is more expensive, at $300.
hahaha if he admits that the iphone is "graphically limited" than how is it more powerful at all? he's trying to compare it to gaming systems that have their main focus on graphical power....
i would liek to see the iphone run halo 2 as smoothly as the original xbox does... or gta san andreas...or far cry...
I am skeptical.
While the hardware is certainly capable, this comparing the iPhone to the PS2 and the Xbox is just hyperbole, plain and simple. It's not like the iPhone has a unique super powerful CPU and GPU that no one else has access to, it's using commodity PowerVR stuff that can be found all over the place.
It's far from a fair comparison, but he may be on to something. The PSP has a processor that can be OCed to 333 mhz whereas the iPhone is at something like 412?
It's not based solely on that, but in terms of pure power, the iPhone may win there.
Of course, have fun playing games with JUST the touchscreen. That's all I'm saying.
that's like saying that a 3ghz pentium 4 is more powerful than a 2ghz core 2 duo.
faster clock speed means nothing.
Looking up specs, the iphone is 412 mhz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphone#Specifications
The PSP has two processors, 333mhz and 166mhz :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable
The DS is the lowest, two processors at 67mhz and 33mzh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS#Technical_specifications
Maybe not "correct math" but the PSP is 333 + 166 = 499 mhz. I think carmack doesn't really look at the specs. The PSP is a powerful hand held and I don't think the iphone is "so much more powerful". Soudns like a good sound byte to help Apple.
I believe the second processor in the PSP isn't used, technically. I can't remember exactly, but it's a (quote) Media Engine that's not used in typical gaming. Correct me if I'm wrong...
The second one is the graphics processor, read the specs! They are both used and designed for gaming.
Computers don't work that way.
The PSP is MIPS processor and the iPhone is a ARM11, which do NOT have the same MIPS to MHz rate. The second 'processor' on the PSP is part of the GPU. I don't know what the iPhone's GPU frequency is, but it is not directly comparable. Either way, the only way to really compare thes is to run platform benchmarks, which I'm sure Mr. Carmack already has.
Sorry, I think you're right. Maybe I was thinking it couldn't be used for homebrew apps because they didn't have access to it. Idk.
The 2nd 166mhz refers to the graphics memory frequency, not a processor at all.
The two processors of the PSP clock at 333MHz, see here:
http://www.edepot.com/reviews_sony_psp.html
The graphics accelerator clocks at half that, 166MHz.
FAIL.
Oh, and the PSP's CPU is actually clocked at 222 MHz (for most games; a few will OC it to 333).
What a weird comparison. Truth is not really in the megahertz. The DS and PSP have lower clockspeeds on their processors (by about half I believe), but both will be vastly superior devices for gaming, because...well...they're FUCKING DESIGNED FOR IT. If you want to compare power and performance, why not compare it to devices that actually fit into the same arena, like.....a smartphone?
B-b-but Carmack says the truth is in t3h megahurtz, so it must be true.
Moar megahurtz ain't shit if it isn't optimized for the arithmetic required of for gaming. It's like...let's take a CPU and pin it against a GPU and say it's not only faster, but holy fucking shit it's better. This is what this asshat is doing.
Wow! Eat that pc users. Put that in your windows iinferior phones and smoke it. My 3g iphone is far superiot that anything you Non 3g iphone users have. I only wish i-sheep was around yo approve this.This 3g iphone Not only is it the Best phone in the world... but its the most werfull phone on mars.
How about you go back to mars with your iphone. Your crap fanboy posts are polluting the air here on earth.
wait.
the iphone is *allegedly* more powerful than things designed by sony, nintendo, and microsoft, with the one from microsoft being the least likely to have been beaten, and yet you're only acknowledging the fact that microsoft was "beaten"?
not to mention that PC and Xbox are two unrelated markets.
and the fact that you're an idiot who believes anything they hear.
do you watch fox news by any chance?
oo, not to mention the fact that all of those were released years ago.
SINNN you f$##ing dolt. Carmack was drawing comparisons to game consoles not other winmo devices. If you going to bash something at least get it in the right context.
Carmark: Oh yea the 3g Iphone is more powerful then any game console. In fact its been known to the heal the sick and raise the dead. The 3g iphone is more powerful the then the internet ( ring ring). Hold on I have to take with call on my new 3g Iphone. Oh yea it was a gift from Apple, in fact Apple gave my whole family new 3g Iphones. Did I also mention the 3g Iphone will eventually find a cure for cancer.
Puke.
1) Macs are PC (Windows / OS X user, MacBook Pro / Dell user)
2) Mobile devices are catered towards groups of people and their needs, unfortunately Apple knew how to cater to douches like you.
3) I do admit the iPhone is a good device; however, it's nothing revolutionary. I have an 8525 that is about 3 years old and fits my needs. Oh yeah, its has 3G and I only pay $20 a month for unlimited data. Not to mention I can get the phone unlocked for free and carry it over both ponds to swap out the sim card. Again it fits my needs more.
@SINNN
Can it cut, copy, and/or paste?
The iphone may be powerful but his contols sucks, Even the nokia n-gage had better controls than the iphone.
Yep, for ports that were designed around other control systems, the iPhone isn't great. Much like the Wii, for example. We won't see the real power of the system until really talented game designers build a game from scratch designed to take full advantage of all the iPhone's features.
you mean features like a multitouch screen and....
oh.
wait.
that's all it has. all the other buttons have a definite purpose, and i doubt apple will let you change the function with the sdk.
oh yeah, forgot about the accelerometer.
they could remake that warioware game i guess
If I could get my iPhone 3G to browse the internet for over an hour without the battery running out, I might've believed this guy.
John "The Battery Killer" Carmack has spoken!
Tell you what, I will start playing games on my iPod as soon as my DS decides to hang midway in a game.
Oh wait.. yeah.. my iPod defiantly takes that cake, not the DS!
I am sure there are people who like the hardware freezing up while playing games, I don't. So suffice to say, I am sticking to my DS for games and iPod for music.
I am not an "anti-apple fanboy". I have an iPhone, love it, and I have an iMac, and I love it.
I'm one of those people that actually likes all the Apple stuff the Engadget posts, though I check TUAW probably more often than Engadget.
But hearing someone go on about Apple without any appreciation for the rest of the tech industry needs to get a life.
Interesting how a guy who actually programs games for a living is being ripped as an idiot by a bunch of people who play games. "What would he know about performance, he's just moron who practically invented the third person shooter. You want the truth, trust me, I play PSP daily!!"
more interesting is how Carmack is worshipped by some based purely on his well-deserved reputation making boring first-person shooters (and naturally he's flawless and can't be wrong because of this record), while common sense and logic fly out the window on tactile controls, battery life, cost of devices he's comparing, their introduction dates, etc.
Why does he need proof, come on the founder of "id?" The company that created quake, which is the game most people use to benchmark systems. That's sufficient enough for me.
The proof is in the pudding.
So far, though, I trust Carmack more than I trust any fanboys.
This guy talks as if all his information on other companies products comes to him through about 100 kids playing postman. Who the Hell does he think he is, Geof Sterling? Only he could make such a bold claim and still seem a bit credible.
Sheesh what a day. All you management type pseudo people are all the same. You always think you're right. But this time today so far Two of You are totally wrong. The Other I speak about is about to be ruined (you don't know him), along with crapple if they try to take on the gaming community. Casual maybe........
"On par with a PS2 or Xbox?"
Now that seriously made me laugh. Bwahahahahaha! Watt a dipshit douche!
Lets try to be honest here folks, I do agree that there is exaggeration going on here but truth is Apple has a good chance to enter the mobile gaming business.
Now I'm talking as a user as I'm no programmer. The iPhone or iPod Touch are two powerful devices but will they compete with the DS and PSP? very unlikely for different reasons. Battery life is one, lack of any physical controllers, and the games being mainly small and only available from the app store.
But they have the start and bases for a great mobile gaming device if they actually go for it.
Form factor is great and just about all the components are excellent. So what do they need to do? I believe they need to develop a purely mobile gaming device based on the iPhone and they could kill the PSP and give the DS a run for its money.
This is how I see it. Get the iPod Touch, add gps, physical controller, and a removable storage device. and you got the future of mobile gaming devices.
Sell it at a lost since you can afford it and earn your money from royalties from the game developers. Plus its a practical PDA and iPod its the perfect device. and of course lets get a bigger battery that lasts at least 10 hours of continues play.
Just what I think, Apple is sitting on a gold mine but they need to take advantage of it or they loss.
so that's another way of saying that nothing's going to happen?
i doubt apple will really bother to try to market the touch as a gaming device. not that i wouldn't mind that happening :P
actually, i wouldn't mind if it just got some emulators, that's fine too.
Its just me hoping, but at the end its all up to holy Steve.
If it had keys I would have agreed with the statement. But my guess is, the coming touchscreen device with a qwerty slideout keyboard and an OS that supports OpenGL ES 2.0 for graphics, could be a gaming contender. That is the HTC Dream.
I can't wait to see what he's got. As a mobile game developer, I worship this guy. Teach us, oh Carmack, how to squeeze perf from this device...
I'm tired of these reports coming out of E3 and now Quakecon. If the performance of the iPhone is better than PSP etc., what's the real reason Apple won't allow Flash?
Agree. Am a huge fanboy, but am not as gullible as you.
So what if it's more powerful then a DS or PSP. Apple barely can get decent games ported for their desktops much less for the iphone or itouch.
And why in hell is he even comparing the iphone to handhelds that are three times cheaper then a non-contract iphone 3G.
idiots.
No controls + no keys = USELESS FOR GAMES
that's good advice. take it some time.
because they're all casual games. all of those are basically ports of other games that were designed to be played with a mouse, and all of those are improved with a touchscreen.
but, when you actually need to directly control a character, that's not going to work so well.
I just hope the next doom does not suck!
if you sold everything that froze after the first time, i don't think you'd actually own anything, especially a fridge :D
but seriously, i've had so many crashes on the eMacs at my school it's not funny.
and also, shut the fuck up. you are a stupid, ignorant, apathetic asshole who apparently believes everything he hears, providing it jives with your current beliefs. you are the reason many people don't want to buy a mac.
I have an ipod Touch.....
But you don't see me taping it to an Antonio Banderas blow up doll and having my way with it.
Seriously fanboys....there are better ways to achieve a unique identity.
Take your worms out of the Apple and learn a little objectivity.
For example, It doesn't matter how good the Ipod touch/iPhone hardware is. Without a tactile interface, it will NEVER EVER EVER be as good for games as even the DS or PSP separately....let alone combined.
Also keep in mind that the iPhone had better damn well be more powerful specwise than the DS and PSP......
THE DS AND PSP CAME OUT 3+ YEARS AGO!
Seriously...if you fanboys can't get that through your heads, I'm going to stab you all and fuck the wounds.
/deep breath.
I feel better now.
He must be sarcastic... there is no way an educated programmer compared an extremely low voltage processor to the, admittedly, aged PS2 system.
The iPhone has some great hardware... but XBOX / PS2 will bend it over for pi calculations, video rendering, and controls
Let's say it's true:
You still couldn't play the games you would on a PSP or a DS because you lack the buttons and the D-pad, and no amount of tilting, shaking, or finger swiping will sub for that.
Therefore, it's a mute point to compare the gaming capabilities of the iPhone with the PSP and DS.
Also PSP2 is coming out, and I'm sure its specs will put this debate to an end
Call me when you can play Madden or NCAA football on it.
I really like my iPod Touch, but I couldn't imagine playing the games I like to play on it.
no...it isn't a mute point. It's a moot point.
or a moo point (you know, like a cow's opinion), but only if your name is Joey
And the Pandora is more powerful than that! Hoorah!
For news and more on iPhone games:
http://www.fisssh.com/iphone-games
Why are so many people caught up in hating it just because it's apple?
I have an iPod nano and ibook.. and an eeepc and a amd 6400+ x2 4gb ram desktop running vista, but i don't 'hate' on a product just because it's by a certain manufacturer.
To anyone gitting on "apple fanbois" - you're just as blinkered cos you CAN'T see past whatever petty gripes you have against apple!
Apple is JUST a company like any other..... no worse, no better...
Sheesh. Insecurities galore down here!
Blow it out your asshole.
ummmmm.....
I think most people here are bagging on Carmack and apple FANBOYS....not apple itself.
This is because Carmack IS being a fanboy right now and DESERVES to be ragged on accordingly. That is what happens when you make audaciously unfounded claims before showing us some pudding.
Talking, LOL,
Out Of, Arse - U.K
More powerful??? This comment is.
Im so glad im not the only one who thought of a "moo point"
Erik, I don't know how you make your smileys so painfully obnoxious, but you manage to pull it off.
I have 3 things to say
1st this guy has to be on crack
2nd does it really matter i mean gaming on a iphone is lame just like the phone
3rd i love all the fanboys thinking they are so cool.
I did some iphone prototypes, also symbian and pocketpc.
The MAIN trouble is the controls, neither the iphone (buttonless) or the symbian (burden button) or the pocketpc (akward buttons) can compete against a ds or a psp, neither for a classic gameboy.
And the second problems is the battery, a iphone utilizing full 3d stuffs can't last a couple of hours.
oh great i can play pokemon on the iphone
I think them be fighting words....
They need to benchmark it with comparison and also have more games for apple to proove their power.
I must say that I'd like that to happen so Sony and Nintendo will have to bring in more powerful stuff for their upcoming PSP-3000 or Nintendo DS lite-wide or whatever name they'll come up with it.
Whoever claims to be happy with their iPhone 3g obviously never had any other smartphone .
I have had 3 more N95, N95 (8GB) & HTC touch cruise and all of them ,ALL, while being years older were ,I mean ARE much better than anything yet made by Apple, and I have already posted the reasons why that is so, somewhere in this blog (forum?).
Now I'm back to my trusted nokia N95. The iPhone 3g went to my wife but even she (not really a geek type) is quite pissed off by the crappy camera and the impossibility to do video calls and I bet that soon will return to her HTC.
As for the iPhone supposed power with the fair sex, when my new hot collegue eyed my new 3G her comment was: " Oh no! Not you! I hoped that at least you would be too smart to get hypnothyzed by all the ads and media hype".
I looked up the specs on the PVR in the iPhone vs. the PSP's GPU... the PSP GPU has 10x the triangle render speed and 2x the overall megapixel fillrate. I don't see how the iPhone is faster for 3D gaming... 2D maybe, since it has a faster CPU and more RAM.
I own an iPod so I'm hardly an Apple hater, but I'm just not seeing evidence for his claims with the data I've read.
Whoever claims to be happy with their iPhone 3g obviously never had any other smartphone .
I have had 3 more N95, N95 (8GB) & HTC touch cruise and all of them ,ALL, while being years older were ,I mean ARE much better than anything yet made by Apple, and I have already posted the reasons why that is so, somewhere in this blog (forum?).
Now I'm back to my trusted nokia N95. The iPhone 3g went to my wife but even she (not really a geek type) is quite pissed off by the crappy camera and the impossibility to do video calls and I bet that soon will return to her HTC.
As for the iPhone supposed power with the fair sex, when my new hot collegue eyed my new 3G her comment was: " Oh no! Not you! I hoped that at least you would be too smart to get hypnothyzed by all the ads and media hype".
He just said he had a 3G iPhone. wtf
That said, I know plenty of people who love their iPhones, but I will never even consider buying one till it has a physical keyboard AND word processing capabilities. No matter how good that li'l tappy touchscreen keyboard is, it can't beat the feel of a physical click. It's like how some people won't buy any touch screen phone because they can dial without looking on a phone with physical number keys.
I'm no smartphone fanboy, either. In fact, both WinMo and iPhone each have their own list of problems. I just happen to go with the one that has the least amount of problems for what I use it for.
Ironic that I'm eating a pear right now, huh?