Carmack says iPhone is "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined"
By Donald Melanson 
posted August 1st 2008 4:37PM
posted August 1st 2008 4:37PM
We already knew that Id Software co-founder John Carmack was on board with the iPhone to some extent, but at the now-happening QuakeCon 2008 in Dallas he's revealed just how impressed with the device he really is. According to Apple Insider, while Carmack admits that graphics memory could be a limiting factor, he describes the phone's hardware as equivalent to a Dreamcast and almost on par with a PlayStation 2 and the original Xbox. He also sees it as far superior, at least in terms of raw specs, than the two big dedicated handheld consoles out there, saying that is "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined." Unfortunately, he didn't have any actual games to show off, but he did at least confirm that Id has two "tentative titles" in the works, including a "conventional mobile game," and one that pushes the iPhone's graphics capabilities.
@ Towncivilian
Funny, it's ironic how that isn't irony...
But can the iphone run Mojave?
They already did this, I can't put my tongue on what it was called.
All I can remember is it flopped HARD!
dreamcast : Processor clock speed: 200 MHz
psp 2000 : Processor clock speed: 333 Mhz
xbox : Processor clock speed: 300Mhz
PS2 : Processor clock speed: 294Mhz
they are all about equal
the guy has no idea what he is talking about- does the iphone posses a more powerful cpu - yes it does (620 mhz- arm) but to say that "the phone's hardware as equivalent to a Dreamcast and almost on par with a PlayStation 2" means he has has no clue what he is talking about- as well all of the above mentioned systems have a separate graphics processor- which pretty much brings overall graphics processing pretty close to even
(I didn't mention DS because it only has a 64 mhz processor)
w.r.t. wolf
I think is appropriate to mention the DS b/c it has 2 processors at 67 and 33 MHz allowing multithreading, which in most situations is more valuable than Mhz, and while I agree that it is sorta ridiculous to say that the iphone is more powerful than the PSP and DS combined, I think, that on the off chance you needed to rip a DVD, or run a complex simulation in your pocket, or calculate the probability of that girl at the bar ever going out with you... the iPhone is device of the day.
If you want to play a friggin video game though, I think you may want to stick with something with buttons, regardless of how powerful a processor, or how much memory there is
And my little laptop is more powerful than all three. What's the point?
The iPhone has the same 3D component as the Nokia N95 (Imagination MBX) and a faster processor, so it should be capable of decent graphics, but it is a general purpose device, not a dedicated 3D gaming platform.
The key to a great gaming platform is a holistic design, where it is not only about a fast processor and some 3D acceleration, but also fast bus speeds, wide data paths and fast RAM, none of which are common on phones as they drain the battery too fast and cost too much.
A DS has a slower clock speed than most phones, but beats them for games because it has dedicated, fast RAM with a wide bus, and games are tuned on the metal to avoid stalls and context switches. That's much harder to do on the iPhone. It's good, but not that good.
Besides all this, the Wii and existing mobile games have shown that simple and addictive gameplay, not having the fanciest graphics, is the key to the casual gaming market, which is where the iPhone sits.
maybe we should put the I-crap in the blender and make old Carwacko push the bits up his scrawny ass and use an apple as a butt-plug. MICROSOFT FOREVRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
@wolf.
The Xbox actually contained a 733 MHz Pentium III based Celeron processor in a Micro PGA2 package. It contained 128k of L2 cache and a 133 MHz front side bus, which was chained to the Nvidia XGPU GPU+Northbridge, and used 64MB of DDR 266 MHz memory. which was shared between the CPU and GPU.
To put it another way, the original Xbox was a Pentium 3 PC running at 733 MHz with a GeForce3 Ti500 card and 64MB of RAM, with a Seagate HDD running a very neutered version of Windows 2000 Professional.
Apple fucking sucks, have some of that nub.
BTW HOPE YOU LOVE EMAIL SPAM.
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@JohnTitor:
Ok I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and say that the iPhone is more/less powerful than X console. However, for you to say it has no 3D GPU or 3D software rendering? Explain to us then, how Super Monkey Ball was possible. Are we just imagining that it's a 60fps fully 3D accelerated game?
From Wikipedia, we see that it does indeed have a hardware 3D graphics processor:
"PowerVR MBX 3D graphics co-processor"
So next time you want to fail epically, please do just as you did here. If you don't want to make an utter fool of yourself, however, do five minutes of research.
Ok, I'm going to go on record and say that I'm not an iPhone fanboy. I do own one, but I'm pretty much fed up with the buggy software and losing my data when the phone locks up on me, forcing a restore and I then find my backup is corrupted.
BUT!
I am so sick of seeing misinformed posts and even outright lies to prove points here. Many of you are arguing that the iPhone is less powerful than X console because it has "no 3D hardware" or "no 3D capability". What the fuck?? Can you not do five minutes of research, which will tell you that the iPhone has a PowerVR MBX 3D graphics co-processor? I'm not going to that it's more or less powerful than any console because that doesn't matter. It was never designed to be a gaming machine; it's put out by Apple remember? Carmack may or may not be a flaming idiot, but he's right when he says it has decent 3D capabilities, and that is evident to anyone who's played SuperMonkeyBall or even read about the damn thing on Wikipedia.
Grow some brains, tools!
Core problem: I cannot hold my finger on an iPhone "button" without activating it. This means I'd need to hover over it, adding a layer of complexity to the most elementary form of interaction on which all games depend. Long live the button. Down with "touch."
Exactly. That is why the iPhone will not be a great "twitch" gaming console, not because of its horsepower or 3D processor. It's got the hardware, just not the controls. Personally, I'd prefer to see simpler, strategy-type games with support for multiplayer over wifi or Edge/3G and location as opposed to Doom/Quake/COD etc.
It's absolutely hilarious reading people's comments who talk about Carmack "talking out of his ass" and "not having a clue what he's talking about" -- especially considering that the majority of the posters probably didn't even bother reading the entire keynote address to put the statement into context.
The kids making these comments couldn't keep up for 5 minutes in a technical conversation with Carmack on GPU rendering/development. Ohh..but HE'S the dumbass right?
Did somebody just make a really good point?
I didn't really hear anything, so I guess it was a mute point.
Carmack is trying to drum up interest for an iPhone product Id is going to market. So, of course, he is going to say whatever it takes to make that happen - just like any good company representative would.
As far as I'm concerned, mobile gaming on a cell phone is a no go at this point in time; Too draining on battery life and too cumbersome control-wise to even begin to be fun. Perhaps, in the future this will change. And, perhaps, what Id and Carmack are planning to do will push cell phone gaming in the right direction.
As it stand right now though, I'll wait at least until 3rd generation gaming phones are released before I'll even consider spending any money on one.
Bill @ Aug 2nd 2008 12:11PM
Carmack is trying to drum up interest for an iPhone product Id is going to market. So, of course, he is going to say whatever it takes to make that happen - just like any good company representative would.
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Yeah. The whole interview came across to me as little more than a press release for new games on the horizon and I'm surprised most didn't pick up on that, let alone the fact that:
"That said, Carmack doesn't believe the iPhone is the definitive answer to mobile gaming. While sales of the device will be significant and may lead to more people playing games on their phones than ever before, he doesn't foresee billions of the devices being sold in a bid for world domination."
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Well if that isn't obvious from its lack of tactile controls (let alone cost, battery issues, etc)... I dunno what is. He is simply knows that Apple is moving units and has announced that his company will be releasing product.
...and you need him to tell you this.
He is right about the Dreamcast comment.
The Dreamcast used a Hitachi SH-4 for its CPU, which is a very simliar type of RISC processor equilvant to an ARM processor like the iPhone uses. They also both make use of the PowerVR graphics processor.
I actually wouldnt be surprised if someone was able to get the thing to emulate Dreamcast software, or if Sega started porting Dreamcast games over giving them new control schemes.
What people are forgetting about is the fact that the iPhone was generally meant to be a CELLPHONE. The graphics on the iPhone sure beat the hell out of any other cellphone game I've seen.
I bet there are hundreds of people who bought iPhones out there that are so infatuated with the bonus features that they haven't made a single call with it.
Well as i i posted the CPU in the iphone is clocked @ 412mhz witch in mhz at least it is 118mhz faster then the PS2 but Raw performance is prolly greater close to the Xboxs P3 CPU as usually a Risc CPU can do more work per CPU clock . now at the same time the iPhone has 128megs of main ram while the PS2 for example has 32megs of mian system ram. the GPU in the PS2 has 4meg of graphics ram and i know the dreamcast had 16megs of ram so it is possible if the iphone has some or all of that 128megs ram available for GPU ram games could in fact look better then some PS2 games and possible Xbox games
I wanna see the iPhone running MGS3:Snake Eater.
Carmack hasnt done anything interesting since doom 1.
well the Sales of past ID games after Doom 1 prove you wrong
How about Apple allowing iPhone 3G users to send pictures through MMS first before it being more powerful than anything??? Ya think... What was the last good game that John "Conceited King" Carmack produced? If you actually care what he thinks (regardless of how smart he is) then you are a fool.