Laptops can be confiscated and searched at US border without cause says report

In further evidence of our rapidly eroding civil liberties, the Department of Homeland Security disclosed today that US Customs and Border Protection and US Immigration and Customs Enforcement have the right to confiscate and search a traveler's laptop or other electronic device without any suspicion of wrongdoing. The rules -- which we reported on in February -- allow for searches of hard drives, flash drives, cellphones, iPods, pagers, and video or audio tapes, and specify that the agencies can "detain" belongings for a "reasonable period of time," (i.e., as long as they please). Additionally, the DHS can share the data found with other government agencies or private entities for translation, decryption, or (astoundingly vague) "other reasons." The DHS says the policies apply to anyone entering the country -- including US citizens -- and claim the measures are necessary to prevent terrorism. In other news, Big Brother issued a statement today guaranteeing a bonus for turning over family members suspected of crimethink to the Thought Police.

[Via Switched]

[PA @ Aug 1st 2008 11:05AM]

Welcome to the USSR !

[skant @ Aug 1st 2008 11:11AM]

In Soviet Russia, Car Drives You!

straight to the KGB

[eney @ Aug 1st 2008 11:19AM]

It's even worse.

[Flashpoint @ Aug 1st 2008 11:36AM]

In fascist America

Oreilly Pwns You!

[Flashpoint @ Aug 1st 2008 11:46AM]

HERE IS A SOLUTION

Buy an Eee PC and store all of your dirt in it (you'll probably need a 500GB travel drive).

#1 Never use it with your home wifi or the wifi of any place you frequently go to. Instead, find a place where wiwi is insecure and go there, use it and then dissapear into the night.

#2 This laptop is special. Its a throwaway. If you ever feel the feds are onto you, keep a bottle of gasoline nearby and a lighter. SET IT ON FIRE. Most feds come unprepared to put out a gas fire and you will ensure the machine is destroyed which means no evidence is recoverable.

You'll get hit with arson charges (rather than child porn or computer crimes) and you simply plead insanity and you get to go to a mental institution and be evaluated. You'll be out in a few months if you promise never to burn things again.

#3 You've got to hide it in unlikely spots. Get a cereal box for instance. A technology warrant allows police to take all the electric items from your house but dissalows non-related items. Even if they found it in a box of cereal it would be inadmissible in court.

[fred @ Aug 1st 2008 11:51AM]

Come on, folks.

Doing this at a state border is pretty commie. An international border is a whole different thing.

I fully expect a sovereign nation to do stuff like this, as annoying as it is, with anything crossing their borders.

[JC @ Aug 1st 2008 12:11PM]

Fred must have drank the Kool-aid.
Hopefully when you take that trip to a foreign country (inc. Canada or Mexico) that you won't experience this. Because I'm sure the first thing you will yell out when being questioned is, "I have rights! You can't do this to me." Meanwhile your fellow citizens will laugh inside while they rip apart your devices looking for something they know is not there but they detained you anyway because a "look" you gave or some other shallow reason because these folks get bored on the job. Good luck with that.

[OneLove @ Aug 1st 2008 1:12PM]

@Flashpoint : You are bonkers man.

[blizz419 @ Aug 1st 2008 1:23PM]

"He who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin

[blizz419 @ Aug 1st 2008 1:27PM]

"He who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin

[Wolfticket @ Aug 1st 2008 1:54PM]

I think that actually deserves a double post.

[ctgaffney @ Aug 1st 2008 1:59PM]

in Socialist America;
the Power of Christ Compels you

[blizz419 @ Aug 1st 2008 2:08PM]

damn engadgets reply system is really fucked today

[coffee @ Aug 1st 2008 2:40PM]

blizz,

don't forget the "essential".

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

It's an important distinction.

However, this border law is horrible, and since it can be done without cause, is both baseless and overstepping, even more so to its own citizens, but also to others.

[Captain Obvious @ Aug 1st 2008 3:48PM]

This is not news. No one, American citizen or not, has ever had any Fourth Amendment priviliges when entering and exiting the country at airports. There is a reason that can search your bags without suspecting any wrongdoing - that's because the Fourth Amendment just doesn't apply at borders or airports.

It's much ado about nothing, really. We all know that they can look through our bags, so you don't bring drugs on a plane. Same thing here, you know that they are going to be looking at your laptop, so don't bring your kiddie porn with you.

And before everyone shouts that I'm a commie or fascist (whichever is the term for right-wing people these days), I'll repeat - THE FOURTH AMENDMENT HAS NEVER APPLIED AT BORDER OR AIRPORTS. EVER. IN OUR ENTIRE HISTORY. SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN.

Thanks!

[fred @ Aug 1st 2008 4:33PM]

"Because I'm sure the first thing you will yell out when being questioned is, "I have rights! You can't do this to me." "



One of the first lessons I was told when taking a trip out of the U.S. is that the constitution does not travel with you.

Ignore that lesson at your own risk.

[BloodyGerman @ Aug 1st 2008 6:04PM]

Bet you get arrested at the airport if you have this quote of Benjamin Franklin on your t-shirt. Who wants to try that?

[r3loaded @ Aug 2nd 2008 5:36AM]

@BloodyGerman

What if I carried a $100 bill with his face on it? The irony...

[Josh @ Aug 4th 2008 12:04PM]

I wonder what will happen when they check someone's computer and some information gets leaked out! According to this article http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=515&doc_id=139841&f_src=flffour - and all of us know - the US government isn't very fond of taking responsibility for poor security.

[neim @ Aug 1st 2008 11:05AM]

america, homeland of the free!

[aalexand @ Aug 1st 2008 11:07AM]

thats slowly becoming free-ish

[OfflinePK @ Aug 1st 2008 11:29AM]

quasi-free?

[nathan.wong @ Aug 1st 2008 11:44AM]

Yes, free to look at anything you have whether you like it or not.

[neim @ Aug 1st 2008 11:47AM]

i'm sorry i'm from Argentina and don't know all of your expressions, what does "thats slowly becoming free-ish" mean?

bye guys

[ipubs bastard child @ Aug 1st 2008 11:56AM]

@neim

He means freedom has gone from free to free-ish. In other words, less free..

[blizz419 @ Aug 1st 2008 1:28PM]

He who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety - Ben Franklin

[Aedile @ Aug 1st 2008 3:21PM]

The diet coke of free.....

[zerocalories @ Aug 1st 2008 4:59PM]

haha
free*

[nDee @ Aug 2nd 2008 4:11AM]

Free of privacy?

[Leandro Almeida @ Aug 1st 2008 11:08AM]

SHT! this is what they call "FREE COUNTRY" ??? HAHAHAHAHA NAZi Germany in high tech sucks people. Free country, home of the free, and the brave, hahahahahahahaha. This is a nation of sheep!!!!

[Dave @ Aug 1st 2008 11:19AM]

For you to compare the United States to Nazi Germany, even jokingly, just displays the true level of ignorance you possess. People can say all they want about the US's occasional mistreatment of citizens (Japanese-Americans in WWII, etc), but for you to compare the US to a regime that purposely attempted to exterminate a group of people based on their religion, that is asinine and you should be ashamed.

[ZACK @ Aug 1st 2008 11:37AM]

"but for you to compare the US to a regime that purposely attempted to exterminate a group of people based on their religion, that is asinine and you should be ashamed."

Native Americans.... yep.

Blacks were slaves..... yep.

[OneLove @ Aug 1st 2008 11:44AM]

legalize it.....nope.

[Jeff @ Aug 1st 2008 11:44AM]

Not to mention a little group called "Islam"...

How many innocent Iraqis do we have to kill, how many Afghani wedding parties do we have to bomb, how many random muslims do we need to detain and torture before people realize we *are* in the process of trying to indiscriminantly exterminate a religion?

We kill that which we do not understand. That is what Hitler did.

[EvilEuropean @ Aug 1st 2008 11:56AM]

Can't help but think of the frog in a saucepan.
Germany did not just become a fascist regime over night, it was a long drawn out process.
What is happening in the USA and other parts of the Western world show scarly similarities between what happened in early 20th century Germany and now.

[Dave @ Aug 1st 2008 11:57AM]

Jeff, you act like we actively go into people's houses and execute them by firing squad...

The US is not perfect by any means, but seriously look at every other country in the world and then start to bitch some more, okay?

[Jason Barlow @ Aug 1st 2008 12:00PM]

What country do you originate from? What is your literacy rate?

[Ryan Karolak @ Aug 1st 2008 12:08PM]

I love America, and what we stand for, but that doesn't mean we aren't there yet.

Religious discrimination:

Laws prohibiting Atheists from holding office? Yep. In some states.
Laws prohibiting Wiccan's rights in school and the Army? Yep. It happens.

Laws against sexual orientation? Yep. In many states.

Unlawful Search and Seizure:
(Which should not be allowed by the Fourth Amendment)

Unchecked ability to wiretap and use the telephone companies to spy? Yep. Just passed.

Ability to confiscate laptops at the border without cause? Yep. Looks like it.

I suppose all these civil rights are expendable "in the short term" for security? Well, that's what many people in the government say.

I wouldn't say the US is Nazi Germany or sheep. Take a look at a lot of the governments such as China's as well as their civil rights. That doesn't mean we don't have some improving to do.

[Dave @ Aug 1st 2008 12:12PM]

Ryan, I think you put it best...I mean compare us to every other country right now - we aren't perfect but we are still pretty much better off than everywhere else.

[Ben Grimsbo @ Aug 1st 2008 12:13PM]

@Zack

How do you think they got here as slaves? Maybe, I dunno, the settlers from Europe who brought them here to use as free labor in the New World?

@Jeff

Hitler didn't kill what he didn't understand; he found a weak group that would be easy to attack and rallied his people against this brand new enemy in a time that the country was limping along after a lost war, which ultimately unified them.

If people have such a problem with America, then leave, or do something about it instead of griping on an internet forum. Like, I don't know... Go to school and learn something.

[Leandro Almeida @ Aug 1st 2008 12:30PM]

Dave, have you never wondered what are all those FEMA CAMPS for ????
Exterminate Christians, Protesters, truth activist, yep We are real close to a martial law. Not even an election you might have, Bush executive orders national emergency. You guys don't even know, but Bush already declared National Emergency see : http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=71714 , it is now what he wants it to be. http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TNCBJT4DODABQP0EF Yo ae right, its not like that yet but I see it in a couple months

[Matias Korhonen @ Aug 1st 2008 12:34PM]

Well done, thanks to your reference to the Nazis, you have automatically been disqualified from this thread. For more information, see Godwin's Law ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law ).

[Leandro Almeida @ Aug 1st 2008 12:48PM]

@ All of you brainwashed by the media. The main stream media is owned by 4 corporations and Murdoch. *Almost all you see ae propaganda. It was proved white house call Jornalist to give tem "talkng points" That's exactly what hittle did. using radio ad media to promote his agenda. = http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/30/olbermann-white-house-sent-me-talking-points-too-i-still-have-them/
*He build concenration camps, in America its called FEMA CAMPS!!! http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1062
* I'm from Brazil but first i am a citizen of EARTH, and I worr about America because the ar they fight influence the whole earth with its stuppid wepons uranium etc...

SAVE THE US CONSTITUTION AND RESTORE THE REPUBLIC!!!

[OneLove @ Aug 1st 2008 1:09PM]

@Dave: Islam is a religion.

[facebookfake @ Aug 1st 2008 1:15PM]

@Dave

Comparing the United States to non-democratic/republic countries is like comparing apples and oranges. Try comparing the US to other longstanding, stable democracies and see where we line up.

health care : 37
financial deficit: last (out of 188 countries not just democracies)
well-being of children (according to UNICEF): 20 out of 21 (just above the UK)
literacy : tied for 18th (just above Tonga)
infant mortality rate : 79 out of 222

It may seem like I'm just "America Bashing" but ignoring serious problems, and blindly stating that "there's no better place to live" will lead to our decline.

[Operation Northwood @ Aug 1st 2008 1:18PM]

@ OneLove ; As you an see, most of the time wen people talk, specially negativity about others, thy are actually talking about them selfs. Dave just called me ignorant of a high level, and yet can't address even what Islam is less like he would know what is happening to the US Constitution. or his freedom. :)

[blizz419 @ Aug 1st 2008 1:19PM]

"He who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin

[Dave @ Aug 1st 2008 1:53PM]

@OneLove

When did the US start a war on Islam? Unless you are talking about people who are terrorists and happen to perverse the religion of Islam...

@Operation Northwood

I don't even understand what you are trying to say. There is nothing wrong with Islam and unfortunately because there have been terrorists that happen to use Islam as a driving force behind their attacks, and there has been proof of mosques in the United States funding terrorism through the exploitation of non-profits, that there is an increased scrutiny against Muslim-Americans and those who are foreign nationals living in the US with a Muslim background.

@Leandro...

FEMA camps were voluntary camps (trailer parks) created for those who couldn't leave because they did not have enough money to pack up their things and go. No one is REQUIRED TO STAY THERE, you idiot. Maybe you should talk about the rampant poverty in Brazil before you decide to start bashing the United States...

At the chosen extreme poverty line, Brazil has a poverty headcount ratio (poverty rate) of 22.6%. This means 34.9 million Brazilians live in households with a per capita income below the poverty line. Using the higher poverty line of R$132, the poverty rate would be 45.3% equivalent to 69.9 million Brazilians.

The United States has a poverty rate currently of 15.4%...

[Wwhat @ Aug 1st 2008 2:00PM]

Right so if hitler hadn't killed the jews so massively he might have been the US presidential nominee, no matter what else he did in the area of fascism, I get it now.

[ZACK @ Aug 1st 2008 2:01PM]

@ "How do you think they got here as slaves? Maybe, I dunno, the settlers from Europe who brought them here to use as free labor in the New World?"

Which would be somewhat of a _tiny_ point if the newly established country, the U.S.A., had freed all forced-labor slaves after winning its war of independence. That didn't exactly happen, though... did it?

Way to avoid my argument about the genocide of the native peoples, too. Good stuff.