Cablevision, common sense win network DVR appeal
By Nilay Patel 
posted Aug 4th 2008 2:56PM
posted Aug 4th 2008 2:56PM
The process took over a year, but it looks like common sense prevailed in Cablevision's appeal of its network-DVR copyright infringement case. You might remember that Cablevision had planned to roll out "remote-storage" DVRs a couple years ago that would play programs off Cablevision servers instead of storing shows locally, but shelved the plan when the networks sued over the concept, claiming that separating content storage from playback would essentially constitute rebroadcast and infringe on their copyrights. The networks won the first round, but it seems like the technical distinction between local and remote storage wasn't enough to convince the Second Circuit Court of Appeals that Cablevision was "broadcasting" anything -- the court just lifted the injunction barring Cablevision from supplying remote DVRs to its customers. We're still big fans of managing our own content locally, but this is definitely a win for the consumer, as it'll mean cheaper equipment costs and hopefully a larger selection of media available on demand -- too bad we're also betting that the networks will try and appeal this one to the Supreme Court.
As long as they give you the option with a price for each.....
The in home storage would just cost more. Most users won't care either way. The more tech savy would prefer to have it at home.
Sweeeeeeeet!!
Hey, I'm very much a people's rights type of guy, but I don't know how they can look at this as anything other than rebroadcasting.
I do agree with you Jim. The only way this could be seen as different is that it's rebroadcast to individuals on demand and not to all their cable subscribers at once.
Being inside the industry myself, I question the wisdom of pushing the program-providers so hard to allow this. Each cable service provider has contracts with the different programmers (usually long term), and it costs them money to carry those programs. If you piss off the programmers by taking them to court over a business model that, sure, saves you money and allows you to make any DOCSIS-enabled non-DVR into a pseudo-DVR ... well, I'd hate to hear the ruckus when those existing contracts expire.
The network storage would be a monthly fee right? if so, i'd bet that over the life of a DVR, the monthly rate is more expensive. good idea for some, but i'll opt out.
Cable service providers in the US use an equipment leasing model as opposed to a retail model which is starting to take hold in Europe (although they still mostly lease the boxes). So most US cable customers are charged an increased fee for leasing a DVR box versus a non-DVR box. They also upcharge for an HD box. That's how they make their money back on the increased cost of those items.
So you're paying for the DVR service monthly anyway even if you have the DVR box ... the pseudo-DVR may even cost less.
Essentially, it's supposed to work the exact same way a DVR works. You can only access content that you have requested to have recorded. So if you didn't set it, then your out of luck. It's not VOD.
i don't consider that broadcasting. if every customer is allocated their own server space for them to save recordings on, and they have to initiate the playback, and it only gets sent to them, that's not broadcasting.
broadcasting is sending the same signal out to everyone and the customers' action is purely passive. here, the customer has to initiate.
The obvious benefit to this is that if you forget to record / just don't record a show, there could be an option for still watching it. Also, if something runs 2-5 minutes later than you set to record, you could still get the ending.
The above would be nice but that would essentially mean that each program would need to be VOD. which would mean rebroadcasting and thus not a true remote DVR.
However, it would be very cool if you could share or permit other users to watch shows you recorded and vice versa. If you missed a show you could just browse your friends "DVR" and see if they recorded it!!
Not true for Cablevision's plan. They are only trying to offer DVR service to users without a DVR box. So you have to set the recording just like you would on a regular DVR. If you set it up wrong, or don't set it at all, or if the programming goes over the end time, you're still out of luck.
What you're talking about is available for some European cable customers and is called "catch-up TV". If you missed the start of a program, you can essentially VoD it from the start. I still don't know how they can avoid the copyright issues that Cablevision ran into (never understood the distinction), but it could be that they have obtained permission from the copyright holders (the programmers) before-hand to allow them to rebroadcast the service. Plus, while there are international copyright agreements which mean that copyrighted material in the US is also copyrighted in Europe, the US court rulings (see Sony case in the 80's that set precedence for fair use of TV programs) are not valid in Europe ... so maybe their courts have ruled all along that "catch-up TV" is not a copyright violation.
My provider offers that service already but only within 6 hours from the start of any given program.
SKY offers the same. and you can stop any live broadcast for up to 23,59 hours and restart it when it please you most.
I could'nt care less anyway , cause my wifi connected 1,5 terabyte NAS (RAID1) gives me more possibilities without time limits just by pushing 3 buttons on my HTPC's remote.
(BTW any type of connected HD would do the same too).
Seems common sense to me as well. Leave it simply as video files stored on a server as opposed to a low-quality HDD in the local DVR and you break no laws. The person must record shows in advance. This is not rebroadcasting anything. It is networked storage. I'm not sure what the confusion is here...
So essentially I'll have to rely on my cable company to stream TV show that I record over their lines rather than have it locally?
It might solve storage issues that come up with HD content, but I've had enough problems with VOD service that I can't see this being a great idea at this time. Plus I don't know if I trust the cable companies to invest in quality servers that won't crap out constantly with that volume of streaming content.
I hate Cablevision. That probably has nothing to do with the story, but they are assholes. I miss DirecTv.
The reason for having it stored on a server vs locally is they are able to offer more service. For example, you can now have web access to all the content you have record though your cable account. You no longer need to be @ home to watch, record or manage your DVR content - everything can be do on the web from anywhere in the world.
I'm ever amazed that these network and movie exec's still don't get it, and that they have to be dragged, kicking & screaming, into the 21st Century.
First it was radio that was going to destroy the movie industry ... then it was TV ... and then the VCR. Now both the movie and TV companies are screaming that the DVR is going to take all their profits away. What they fail to learn from history is that radio, TV & VCR actually made them more money ... a lot more!! And so will DVR if they'll just wake up and embrace the future.
Yes, the old paradigm of TV commercials is quickly dying, so they'll just have to figure out a new one. There's no way they're going to stop this, so instead they should hop on board and help create the new paradigm instead of trying to hold back a tsunami.
How is it that these guys get paid such big bucks and yet are so blind to the future?
I'm ever amazed that these network and movie exec's still don't get it, and that they have to be dragged, kicking & screaming, into the 21st Century.
First it was radio that was going to destroy the movie industry ... then it was TV ... and then the VCR. Now both the movie and TV companies are screaming that the DVR is going to take all their profits away. What they fail to learn from history is that radio, TV & VCR actually made them more money ... a lot more!! And so will DVR if they'll just wake up and embrace the future.
Yes, the old paradigm of TV commercials is quickly dying, so they'll just have to figure out a new one. There's no way they're going to stop this, so instead they should hop on board and help create the new paradigm instead of trying to hold back a tsunami.
How is it that these guys get paid such big bucks and yet are so blind to the future?
As I consumer, I like this and frankly I want VOD at this point - it's too obvious. However, looking at this objectively this is virtually VOD.
Think of it this way:
I'm Cablevision. Since the storage is on my servers, surely I can consolidate for efficiency (eg. if 2 users record Seinfeld, only one copy is stored at the head end). Right?
So, now with cheaper storage costs I'll allow you very large amounts of storage. On second thought, I'll allow you unlimited storage. Why not record everything.
VOD. Qed.
mark,
That's not how Cablevision's implementation works. Every customer gets their own 80GB of disk space. Yes they can carve that 80GB out of a 500GB drive, so its cheaper than the 80GB drive you might put in a DVR, but its not "free". If each user records a show there are copies of that show on every user's 80GB "drive". And a user can only record 80GB's worth of TV, or about 47 hours of SD or about 12 hours of HD programming before they run out of space.
BTW, the ruling is online at http://www.publicknowledge.org/pdf/cablevision-decision-20080804.pdf. It is easy to read and very clear. Its obvious the judges actually understood what they were ruling on. Encouraging.
With the current trend, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
Why?
Look at the BS that Comcast and Time Warner are pulling... Broudband usage caps and fees for "excess" use.
Or they just might try to pull a fast one and allow only their own network DVR to be free on their networks. However, the Feds will kill that quickly.
It's the crook leading the blind and deaf. ISPs are becoming like the Auto and Oil industries with their endless lies. Fact... FASTER networks REDUCE congestion. Force them to upgrade the hardware!