Yes, Toshiba seems resigned to some sort of HD disc-free existence, as it continues to mope about HD DVD's loss to Blu-ray and refrains from releasing a player for the once rival format, but let's set all aside for the moment. We got a look at
Toshiba's new XD-E500 in action, and we must say: it does what it sets out to do. Most consumers will see a visible quality improvement when playing their DVDs, particularly in the realm of sharpness. Toshiba's new filters are "intelligent" enough to spice up the grass while leaving the sky and clouds free of noise, and while the contrast and color filters are less necessary, many consumers will enjoy their effect -- even if video purists would scoff at such alterations. As for usability, it couldn't really be much easier to flip on and off the three different enhancements, but there's also no customization of those modes to speak of. This $150 player isn't in any way Toshiba's Blu-ray killer, but thankfully the company actually seems to recognize that, and plans to market to Joe consumer who doesn't want to fork over the dough for a Blu-ray player or doesn't want to invest in a brand new video library, and won't be insulting videophiles' intelligence with claims to the contrary. If you're looking for something to magically make DVDs look like HD, this isn't it, but it bests Toshiba's best upconverter easily, and we'd venture to guess it's probably tops yours as well. All that said, Toshiba will have in store demos of the player at major retailers, and we'd highly recommend taking a gander for yourself before you take the plunge.
posted Aug 19th 2008 2:44PM
Dear Toshiba,
Give it up, take it like a man...or an upset video format (which ever comes first).
Thanks,
Joe Consumer
The Future is here...
Not like your comment helped, but i low ranked you because of your name.
@rock
which one?
The future is with low-tech info-display?
Having 1080 on tv doesn't mean the machine have to look like a Best-buy VCR,
or is it?
At least the sony br player is saying yes/
@phanbouy
Both :)
holy cow, i just played apollo 13 on it. wow...you have to see it to believe it. i bought mine in sears. (less %10 because i used their card) . i have hd-dvd and ps3. was just going to put this dvd player in my garage, i guess hd dvd is the one going there :)...
So does this do a better job of upconverting than my now useless HD-DVD player?
*yes I have a HD-DVD player (I only paid $99 for it)
I also have a PS3 so Blu-Ray fans don't beat me down. :-)
A valid question, I'm curious how it would stack up against an HD-A2/A3.
You can only "invent" so much information...
> You can only "invent" so much information...
In case of XDE, yes.
In case of Super Upconversion, no. Super Upconversion is simply grabbing pixel info from adjacent frames, not inventing.
Any word on how the upscaling on this would compare to the upscaling on the PS3? I went through a parade of upscaling players (including a couple of Oppo models), but ditched them once I saw how good the PS3 looked on standard-def discs.
The PS3 does a great job upconverting DVDs.
agreed even though I'm an xbox fanboy, and refuse to game on a ps3.
@fieldcar
Your gaming habits fascinate and excite me, especially here in this article about the XD-E500. Please keep it coming!
"fascinate and excite me"
well he is Fabio...
If only Toshiba could invent an upconverting device for the iPhone 3G signal strength...
Probably better than the PS3. IMHO, the PS3's DVD upscaling is somewhat over-rated - it's good, but not amazing.
Why would you have to invest in a brand new video library if you buy a Blu-ray player? All Blu-ray players already upconvert so now you are really only looking at Joe's who don't want to fork out for a Blu-ray player and sooner or later, that is also going to be change.
Such negativity... as if interpolation, algorithms, and calculus suddenly cease to exist. I for one, am actually interested in this product.
I agree, and because I have an extensive DVD collection I'm interested in getting something like this as I have no desire to purchase copies of movies I already own (Which I already did, because I have the VHS versions of 30% of my DVDs) Having said that, interpolation, algorithms, and calculus can only get you so far. Will this make DVDs look better? Sure, but it in no way is going to look as good as BluRay on a 63" screen - BR discs have 6 times the image information as a DVD.
Actually not a bad idea, I know I'm not paying money for a blu-ray player until they come much farther down in price...
Believe it or not, I think the market is there for this kind of thing.
Truthfully, I didn't care if BluRay or HD-DVD won. I know I was never going to spend the money on the media until it's cost rival DVD.
When BluRay discs cost the same as DVD's (essentially making choice of BluRay obvious), then I can see DVD being phased out.
How long did it take for DVD's to oust VHS? The jump in quality from VHS to DVD was substantial. The jump from DVD to BluRay (or HD-DVD) to most consumers is negligible. Yes, technophiles will go on and on at how much better it is, but the common consumer that makes the bulk of the purchases don't care until the costs come way down.
The difference between DVDs and Blu-Ray is also substantial, but you have to have a good HDTV to see it.
Though, eventually everyone will have an HDTV of some sort (try buying anything else when your SD set dies). And people will end up buying blu-ray even if their 22" 720p set doesn't really show the difference all that well, for the same reason that they watched DVDs through their lousy 20 year old RCA: it's what they'll find at the store.
Also, the prices for Blu-rays are beginning to follow the same price curve that DVD did. Already I can find things for prices I am willing to pay much more easily than I could a year ago.
Actually, the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray (and, to an extent, HD-DVD) is not as substantial as the difference between VHS and DVD, no matter how much of an early adopter/technophile you are.
It just isn't.
Having said that, I do own a bunch of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies, and watch them on a 42" HDTV @ 1080i.
The image quality is superb. No debate from me there.
It isn't as drastic as the quality shift from VHS to DVD though.
So until the price of a Blu-Ray disc matches that of a DVD, I don't think that the tech will not take off, no matter how many PS3s Sony sells, as the average consumer doesn't really see much of a difference, @ least not enough to warrant buying 'The Dark Knight' on DVD for $19.99 versus on Blu-Ray @ $29.99, extra content be damned.
Until then, I will continue to enjoy my $10 HD-DVDs on my $50 HD-DVD player...LOL
Long live laserdiscs~!
*end sarcasm*
I would argue that the gap in picture quality between DVD and Blu-ray is significantly more noticable than the gap between VHS and DVD. And I only have a 720p tv at 37", so I know that there is definitely an even bigger gap there for people with higher end equipment.
But here's the thing - people don't care about picture quality. Do you think that people upgraded from VHS to DVD because of the picture quality? Hell no, they did it because the mass population is in love with special features. Having big menus full of pointless extra garbage just facinates people, they feel like they're getting a better deal for their money. Just look at how they keep churning out those two disc special editions of every movie under the sun. That's what people were attracted to, and that's what Blu-ray fails to improve over DVD in any significant way.
Hmm, that logo reminds me of DivX.
it reminds me of fail. sorry toshiba, love your TVs and all, but get with the Blu-ray program so that we have one more high quality option in a reasonable price range (alongside sony and panasonic of course)
ya rly, toshiba. how dare you make a low cost player to optimize the playback of your existing library
well why bother with 150 for a player for SD-DVD when you could buy a blu-ray player for 400 and have it do the same thing AND play blu-rays?
maybe because i can save the $250 and the extra $20 per movie for about the same level of enjoyment on any TV that costs less than $3,000?
or maybe i don't feel like re-purchasing my whole DVD collection? or maybe i'm not made of money for overpriced luxuries?
I don't know why everyone makes the point of "I don't want to re-buy every movie I own!" Oh really? Then don't. They still play in your blu-ray player, and at much higher quality than any non-upconverting player. I have a blu-ray player and by no means do I ever plan to replace my DVD collection. I have not yet bought a single movie on Blu-ray that I already own on DVD, and the first one I do will be Transformers, and only because I loaned the DVD to a friend and it got scratched to hell. If you don't have an HDTV this player is as useless to you as a Blu-ray player, and if you do, save the money because the Blu-ray player will make the most of your TV and surround sound.
alternatively, i could wait until there's more movies and prices come down and 1080p TVs get cheaper and i have tons of extra money lying around just for watching home video
Hey, i'm not hating on Toshiba, I just noticed a resemblace in the X.
http://www.cybertheater.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/divx.jpg
The codec, not the crappy doomed-from-the-start limited video disc system.
I'm curious to see what this player can do. Hopefully the stores won't play bs bias games and connect them via the regular rca cord instead of the component or HDMI. Sony doesn't pay my bills, and neither does Toshiba. So, I'm looking for ways to get the most out of my dollar. I already have the PS3 and the 360 HD-DVD player. But, I can't afford to have more than one in the house. So, if this player hits the under $100 sweet spot, then it might be worth considering.
It would be interesting to see how well this does against the best upscaling DVD players out there, like the Oppo's or just about any REON based player (mostly the flag ship HD-DVD players and one or two Blu-ray players).
The bad news.
It is not a Super Upconversion(960p native video out of DVD) player.
The good news.
Super Upconversion is still coming, in Toshiba ZF REGZA HDTV sets this fall and in XDE2 players next year.
Most (if not all) Blu ray players upscale dvds anyway so go ahead and buy this but in a year or two when you want more your gonna be spending the same amount of money buying a blu ray player so why not just buy one now.
Most Blu-Ray standalones feature crippled DVD upconversion on purpose and this is why you would want a dedicated DVD Upconverter and Super Upconverter(960p native)
Deadmeat I don't know what Blu-ray players you've seen/used but I work in retail and I can assure you, the blu-ray players from samsung, panasonic and sony all best every upconverting player i've seen for under $200 and are only now bested by the dirt cheap HD-DVD players.
Oddly I don't believe that is true with Samsung Blu-ray players. I recently picked up a refurbished Samsung 1400 on the cheap and before I bought I did some research, AVSForum and other places seem to have Samsung players as being sub-par for scaling DVDs. After hooking it up, it does not looks as good as either the Toshiba A2 or Oppo DV-981HD.
Currently, the chip sets to look for the best DVD scaling are the Reon or Anchor Bay and sometimes Faroudja depending on the chip model.
@Deadmeat... why are you making stuff up? What is this crippled upconversion you speak of? That it only works over HDMI? Standalone DVD players have the same limitation and it's not because of the hardware manufacturers.
Sounds likea good DVD PLayer. And if it can be "adjusted" to Region Free I thiunk they have a winner.
So in short, this is just a DVD player, with a massively cut down Cell chip and some smart algorythm.
How long before the much more capable PS3 does exactly the same thing? Weeks or Months??
The PS3 already has a pretty smart upscaler. I would love to see a side by side comparision of this Toshiba, and the PS3. I suspect the PS3 will be on-par, with of course the ability to play proper HD.
The PS3 costs more than three times what the XDE costs. I don't really think this thing is aimed at the same market as the PS3.
My math is a little off, I was thinking the PS3 was still $500. But the point is unchanged, the XDE is much cheaper and likely aimed at people who haven't already invested in Blu-ray.
I sure as hell won't buy one, but I can definitely understand its intended purpose in the market.
The market is ripe for this. We have a BD player, but we buy and watch mostly DVD's (a lot of children's stuff.) For us, something like this would better bridge the gap until the amount of material on BD is sufficient to make the switch.
DVD is still the standard. Toshiba was wise to stop trying to reinventing the wheel and work on improving upon something everyone already uses instead.
What I really want is Super Upconvert software that will allow me to rip a DVD, upconvert it, and save it as an ISO, all in one step. Then I can play it on demand via my Media PC...
what a waste.. just upconvert in real time with ffdshow - i'm sure the XDE is just using similiar filters.
Then I have to get my fat ass off the couch and put the disc in the tray. No thanks.
As a follow up: I want to be able to watch content in multiple rooms, and i want to be able to put media on my laptop and take it with me, to a friends house. I'd much rather spend $600 or $800 per location (in my house) for a media computer that also allows me to see my security cameras, browse the web, access my music and video library, than I would buying a $400 piece of equipment that does 1 thing.
Hard drives are cheap. 7200RPM SATA 3.0 750 GB drives are about $100. I can store a DVD for about $0.75, and a BRD for less that $5. My entire DVD collection will cost me less than $200 in storage to store uncompressed with all the navigation, etc.
AnyDVD HD is your friend...
hmm DivX certified. I think Toshiba should throw their HD DVD owners a bone and release DivX firmware updates for their HD players or at least let groups develop 3rd party firmware for the players.
According to phanbouy, people want HD tv's but are too poor to buy HD content, Blu-ray is only good for 1080p tv's which all cost over 3k, and you have to rebuy your entire DVD library for $20 more than what you originally paid. You could not be more wrong if you tried.
glad you corrected me with, uhm, your harsh tone of reason
I don't understand why everybody seems to have such a problem with Toshiba refusing to make Blu-ray players. Would Toshiba's theoretical Blu-ray player be any different than Samsung's or Sony's? What exactly is Toshiba withholding from the world by not manufacturing a Blu-ray player? It would be one thing if Universal and Paramount were refusing to switch to Blu-ray because they would be withholding exclusive content, but one hardware manufacturer hardly makes a major difference in your ability to watch Hi-Def movies.
"If you're looking for something to magically make DVDs look like HD, this isn't it, but it bests Toshiba's best upconverter easily, and we'd venture to guess it's probably tops yours as well."
I seriously doubt it tops my OPPO deck. Suck on THAT, Engadget!
Wow. So much continued disinformation. Decent 42" 1080p sets can be had for $900-1000 now. Yeah they might not have 30k contrast and 120hz motion procesing but they are just as good as the $2500 Samsungs from a year and a half ago. Seriously the new 40" Westinghouse 1080p set is really good for $950.
Just because you get a BluRay player doesn't mean that you have to go and rebuy all of your movies like VHS, my god. In fact that is one good reason for buying BluRay, your DVD collection will still work and you can buy new movies in BluRay or even in DVD if it is a movie you don't care about seeing in HD.
The difference between BluRay and DVD is far greater than DVD and VHS. VHS quality really had more to do with your player than the tape. If you had a really good 4 head player with Quasi S-VHS playback and good autotracking, some movies looked as good as DVD. DVD and VHS both displayed at 480 on your TV. It wasn't until progressive capable displays that DVD started to show better quality. People bought DVD because of the ease of use, no rewinding, smaller size, and the discs didn't degrade like VHS tape if you watched the movie 100 times.
Again nomatter what you do you can't make 480 look like 1080 regardless of the alogorithm you use. Even if you had $100k worth of upconverting and video mastering equipment, an upconverted and resampled 480p image still would not look as good as a single 1080 frame capture. Someone running a true 1080 source through a $199 player on a 1080 display would look better than a $3000 player running a 480 upconvert.
Can DVD look good on a HD display, yes it can. Can DVD match BluRay or straight1080 sources, no it can't. As long as you understand that you can make your decision based on what you think you can live with.
actually, I just a 40" Samsung with 120hz processing for under 1100. If you're willing to spend a few months looking for deals, you can make out like a bandit.
This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Blu-Ray! If people wanted Blu-Ray to watch SD DVDs on they would be buying them for that purpose!
This is for people that want to continue to buy and watch SD DVDs, and make them look as good as technically possible today, period. This is one step beyond simple SD Up-conversion. The next step will potentially come next year.
I think that the Blu-Ray worshippers are worried that J6P might see this and think, Wow I really do not have a need for that "Blue-Ray thingie," and it costs too much. And thus they will somehow be limited or that Blu-Ray will be relegated to niche status like LD was!
Anything is possible in the CE arena, we have all seen that! (Some more than others) So I say, just let this all play out, without the "Blu-Ray is the best", sales pitch propaganda please! It's really redundant, at this point! When people are really ready for Blu-Ray (More importantly, when Blu-Ray is really ready for the people), they will go there. Until then, they will go exactly where their wallet tells them too!
Generally, I do agree with most of this! However, The differences between up-converted SD DVD an HDM (BD or HD DVD) are purely subjective! There are many factors that contribute to this. I would choose to leave that up to the person watching the movies to tell what they prefer in a given situation. Many Double Blind studies, have shown that many of the people surveyed, can not tell the difference between the respective video outputs, in the right conditions, so I'll pass on that idea, thank you!
Would be interesting if the XD-E500 played 3xDVD ...
wow...thats all i can say! you've got to see this to believe it. just got one, and my hv-dvd (i have ps3 too blu fans) will definitely go to my garage. sears has it now.
wow...thats all i can say! you've got to see this to believe it. just
got one, and my hv-dvd (i have ps3 too blu fans) will definitely go to
my garage. sears has it now.
You Blu-Ray fanboys need to get a life. The PS3 is still not the best Blu_Ray player. Actually if you want to spend the money on a good Blu-Ray player, pick up the Panasonic 50, or 30. Heck I'd dump $250 on the Wallymart Magnacrox before I would waste my time with the PS3.
As far as Toshiba little player. It's a DVD player. Not a HD DVD player or Blu-Ray killer. Toshiba's decision not to produce a Blu-Ray machine is their choice. But keep in mind, this player has been receiving great reviews, other than this Sony eating website. One more note to take PS3 owners, your double frame feature on board your PS3 is the Cell chip hard at work. Toshiba's Cell chip is in your PS3's! Before you go all over this post, you helped Toshiba release this DVD player by purchasing your PS3's. Such kind Fanboys!
If anything the Toshiba player may have Sony worrying abit. What happens if Toshiba prodcues a Blu-Ray deck, with Cell. Watch out PS3, your about to be squashed...LOL