Engadget Cares: The state of Palm - checking in a year later
Outgoing Engadget editor-in-chief Ryan Block contributes Engadget Cares, a friendly advice column for the people who make your technology.
Hard to believe, but it's been a year and a day since Peter, Josh, and I published our intervention letter to Palm, wherein we rattled off a number of (admittedly unsolicited) suggestions on how we thought they might best turn things around at a time when Microsoft, RIM, and Apple were really eating into their slice of the smartphone pie.
Palm CEO Ed Colligan took the time to publicly reply, letting everyone know that he "forwarded [our letter] to [Palm's] entire executive staff and many others at Palm have read it. ...We are attacking almost every challenge [Engadget] noted, so stay tuned." When the dust settled, we were cautiously optimistic, if not a little hopeful.
In some ways that letter inspired Engadget Cares. And since it's my last day here at Engadget as editor-in-chief and all, it seems only appropriate to check in on things and see whether Palm really did "attack every challenge" from a year ago. Read on.
So Palm, I'm going to go over each point from last year's letter, awarding a Treo 600 for every bit you've gotten right, and a Foleo for any (continued) misdeeds. At the end I'll add it up and see how you've been doing.
A Treo 600 represents +1, while
a Foleo represents -1
Hardware
Get thin - I thought we might have to start off on a sour note, because prior to the Pro's launch earlier this week, Treos were pretty much the same place we were last year when it comes to girth. Some newer devices, like the Centro, are down from the usual 0.8-inches thick to 0.73-inches. Meanwhile, the iPhone 3G actually got thicker, and STILL manages to be significantly thinner at 0.48-inches; RIM's Curve is at 0.6-inches, and the upcoming Blackberry Bold sexpot is a scant 0.5-inches thick. But you managed to make the Pro 0.53-inches, and by all accounts that's the thinnest Palm smartphone yet. Just don't stop there, okay? You can always make it a little thinner.
Bigger, higher resolution displays - Same deal. In fact, Palm fans took a huge step back on the Centro, which brought us down to an eye-straining ~2.2-inches. You know it too, Palm, because you totally downplay the Centro's screen size. Sure, you could argue that it's got more pixel density, and that's a good thing when your UI scales. Palm OS 5 does not, so bundle it with some bifocals. We're glad the Pro's screen is no longer recessed (we hear it ain't easy to do a flush resistive touchscreen), but it's still the same display, you know?
Don't mess with the keyboard - I definitely like the mild, incremental improvements made on newer Palm devices, but the Centro keyboard is, as predicted last year, "impossible to type on" (unless you've got a four year old's thumbs), and the new Treo Pro is actually a step back for the flagship line's fuller-sized pad. It's closer to the 800w-style size, but you've managed to actually make it harder to type on, congrats. And don't even get me started on the fact that you don't seem to be an inch closer to a sliding QWERTY. Really, why not do one?
Make it look nice - The Centro seems more toy than smartphone, the 800w kind of reminds us of a smiling clown in makeup, and the Pro ironically shares the same keyboard and design cues as the lowest-end device in the lineup. Hell, even RIM, long-time purveyor of some of the world's ugliest phones, has totally gotten with the program in the last year.
Add WiFi - The 800w and Pro have it, and that's definitely a step in the right direction for devices of this class. Don't stop there, though!
Think about adding some storage - 60MB (in the 755p) and 170MB (in the 800w) of available user memory doesn't do a smartphone a whole lot of good anymore. Even HTC's Touch Diamond stepped to the game with 4GB, 25x your capacity.
Put the kibosh on the Centro / Gandolf / Treo 800p - Turns out the Treo Centro is one of your best selling phones of all time. Congrats! But I do think that has more to do with the aggressive price point, and less to do the device itself. And as of July, $100 for a Centro (with EDGE) became a whole lot harder for consumers to justify in the face of a $200 iPhone (with 3G). You may have to make this one free if you want to continue fending off Cupertino.
You also just announced the Pro, which you're selling unlocked for $550 -- which means you couldn't get AT&T on board to sell it alongside the iPhone at $200 subsidized, or something like that. I don't remember the last time you launched a new flagship product in the US that didn't have a carrier launch partner, so we have to wonder a bit why AT&T got cold feet.
The real point here is to say I still don't really think Palm's on the right track with these devices. They feel just as out of touch with where the market's gone. On the flip side, at least you're trying SOMETHING new, which is a departure from the last few years of Palm products. Plus, a couple million Centros don't lie, nor does NPD's stats which peg Palm's share of US smartphone sales in 1H08 gaining 3% to 12% (over 1H07's 9%). So we'll give you the 600. This time.
Software suggestions
Completely overhaul the OS - In the time you've tried and failed with Cobalt / OS 6, tried again (and failed again) with that next-gen Linux OS (later sold to ACCESS), and have been working on the next-next-gen Linux platform: RIM's totally overhauled their entire user experience and sold a gazillion devices, Microsoft has shipped nearly a half dozen versions of Windows Mobile, Apple's shipped two versions of their mobile platform, and Android was announced and is just about ready to ship.
Meanwhile your target for 2007 turned into end of 2008, then early 2009, and now the first half of 2009 (according to a recent NYT profile) -- but the fact that there's no official (or leaked) alpha shots, no public or private SDK, or really nothing else to go by at this point leaves us skeptical, to say the least. But hey, in the midst of Helio's unraveling you did pick up the dude behind the SideKick's interface, and if there's one thing Android doesn't have going for it so far, it seems to be UI savvy.
The rest (be open, add true multi-tasking, embrace developers, add a better browser, offer great Mac support, beef up the multimedia, and get with Google) - These are a little harder to directly gauge, because they presumed you'd have actually shipped (or at least begun to detail) the new platform by now. But you haven't. And almost all the points we made are still as valid today as they were last year, with only a small amount of forward motion coming from only the most tenacious 3rd party developers still trying to plug the holes.
Fortunately, you still have an advantageous position, especially in light of Apple's false-openness with the iPhone. You need to really let devs and users get their hands dirty with your platform and devices. Trust us, people are getting sick of the iPhone App Store gulag, and Android's radical openness is going to help shift things in the other direction. Bank on differentiation, you might not have any other choice. Since we're not any better off today, though, you get a Foleo. Just one though, not all seven.
Other Stuff
Stop wasting money on the Foleo - Sure, the whole netbook market really started to take off around the time you were killing the Foleo, but I stand by that recommendation big time. What some people didn't see in hindsight was that the Foleo was a totally different concept than netbooks, and was poorly positioned from the start. Expecting users to fork out $600 for a giant "companion" device in order to make up for the long list of shortcomings in your own mobile platform is no way to sell either product.
And unfortunately for the Foleo, it couldn't have lived as a netbook, either; Eee PCs still would have outpaced it because they provide a proper laptop-like experience, be it with Windows XP or just having Firefox in Linux. The Foleo didn't just shirk the experience we appreciate in a good netbook, it also depended heavily on having a cellphone and syncing services between devices. (For example, it couldn't do email by itself -- it required a phone to sync email with and send through.)
In fact, as you may recall, I got to spend some time with a late-model Foleo. Everything about it was underwhelming, and the one thing the Foleo needed to nail -- the browsing -- was a complete failure. (Think: no tabs, no Flash, couldn't even load Gmail, and LOTS of crashing.) Plus, going up against Asus's Eee would have eventually turned out to be a major distraction for an already distracted company, as well as an uphill battle due to the Foleo's fundamentally flawed premise. Trust me when I say that the idea won't be vidicated, and that the smartest thing Palm ever did with the Foleo was to kill it.
Make better ads - "It's a Palm thing" That's really the best you guys could do? These are some of the worst technology ads I've ever seen. And what's worse, they don't even tell you anything about the devices (like, say, why it would be a better choice than a BlackBerry or the iPhone). If I were you, I'd drop Young and Rubicam and run for the hills. Maybe pick up TBWA \ Chiat \ Day -- the people that make the iPhone ads should know better than anyone how to counter them.
Stop keeping us in the dark - Again, nothing much has changed here. No clear timelines have been set for the next-gen OS in spite of developers flocking in droves to Apple's platform. If devs were on the fence before, they've jumped it by now. Would it really hurt to tell people how things are going? Palm has a blog, yet we rarely see it used for anything but the usual company line-toeing.
In fact, I might say things are even more closed off than they were before, and Ed Colligan still won't sit down with Engadget to talk about what's going on with Palm. To be fair, when we last saw him out at an event, Ed expressed interest in an interview with Engadget. But for whatever reason, try though we might, the people at Palm won't seem to let us drop by for a sit-down. Go figure.
So let's see where we stand!
That's four Treo 600s!
And eight Foleos.
Ouch, that's a total score of -4. Or, if you want to look at it glass-half-full, that's four things that have been tangibly improved over this time last year.
Without sounding like too much of a broken record, are we really better off with today's Palm products? Devices take 12-18+ months from start to ship, but I think a lot of us believed that after Elevation's recapitalization and the installation of former iPod executive Jon Rubinstein to lead your product-development, we might see some short term results. In a sense, we have -- you've managed to win over some new Palm converts selling a lot of budget-priced Centros -- but it's hardly a satisfying return to the high-flying glory days.
I'd also wager that kind of gain won't be long term. RIM and Apple know that business devices have to get personal, and vice-versa; your current (and from what we can tell, future) offerings don't seem to address the need for a single, versatile, do everything device. (Say, doesn't that sound a little like the original Treo mission statement?) We're in the same Palm stasis we've been in for about a half a decade now, waiting for the new software as the launch timetables slip quarter after quarter, year after year.
Picking up the Android mantle still seems like a great short-term move, but it seems like once again you'd rather go to bat with Linux alone. That's understandable to a certain extent, but why not at least build a few Android devices alongside your forthcoming Nova / Palm OS II, Windows Mobile, and legacy Garnet-based handsets? It'd show you're still interested in staying relevant and competitive as an important new mobile platform emerges, or at very least that you're humble enough to recognize there hasn't been a major Palm OS update since 2002. No, we aren't expecting Ed to give us another public response, just for Palm to make good on its heritage of innovation -- however you want to define the word.
Ryan Block is the editor-at-large of Engadget, and is currently at work on a new gadget-related content startup.
If you know a company or technology in need of a little advice (especially one too afraid to ask for it), hit him up at engadgetcaresATengadgetDOTcom.
Palm CEO Ed Colligan took the time to publicly reply, letting everyone know that he "forwarded [our letter] to [Palm's] entire executive staff and many others at Palm have read it. ...We are attacking almost every challenge [Engadget] noted, so stay tuned." When the dust settled, we were cautiously optimistic, if not a little hopeful.
In some ways that letter inspired Engadget Cares. And since it's my last day here at Engadget as editor-in-chief and all, it seems only appropriate to check in on things and see whether Palm really did "attack every challenge" from a year ago. Read on.
So Palm, I'm going to go over each point from last year's letter, awarding a Treo 600 for every bit you've gotten right, and a Foleo for any (continued) misdeeds. At the end I'll add it up and see how you've been doing.
A Treo 600 represents +1, whilea Foleo represents -1Hardware
Get thin - I thought we might have to start off on a sour note, because prior to the Pro's launch earlier this week, Treos were pretty much the same place we were last year when it comes to girth. Some newer devices, like the Centro, are down from the usual 0.8-inches thick to 0.73-inches. Meanwhile, the iPhone 3G actually got thicker, and STILL manages to be significantly thinner at 0.48-inches; RIM's Curve is at 0.6-inches, and the upcoming Blackberry Bold sexpot is a scant 0.5-inches thick. But you managed to make the Pro 0.53-inches, and by all accounts that's the thinnest Palm smartphone yet. Just don't stop there, okay? You can always make it a little thinner.
Bigger, higher resolution displays - Same deal. In fact, Palm fans took a huge step back on the Centro, which brought us down to an eye-straining ~2.2-inches. You know it too, Palm, because you totally downplay the Centro's screen size. Sure, you could argue that it's got more pixel density, and that's a good thing when your UI scales. Palm OS 5 does not, so bundle it with some bifocals. We're glad the Pro's screen is no longer recessed (we hear it ain't easy to do a flush resistive touchscreen), but it's still the same display, you know?
Don't mess with the keyboard - I definitely like the mild, incremental improvements made on newer Palm devices, but the Centro keyboard is, as predicted last year, "impossible to type on" (unless you've got a four year old's thumbs), and the new Treo Pro is actually a step back for the flagship line's fuller-sized pad. It's closer to the 800w-style size, but you've managed to actually make it harder to type on, congrats. And don't even get me started on the fact that you don't seem to be an inch closer to a sliding QWERTY. Really, why not do one?
Make it look nice - The Centro seems more toy than smartphone, the 800w kind of reminds us of a smiling clown in makeup, and the Pro ironically shares the same keyboard and design cues as the lowest-end device in the lineup. Hell, even RIM, long-time purveyor of some of the world's ugliest phones, has totally gotten with the program in the last year.
Add WiFi - The 800w and Pro have it, and that's definitely a step in the right direction for devices of this class. Don't stop there, though!
Think about adding some storage - 60MB (in the 755p) and 170MB (in the 800w) of available user memory doesn't do a smartphone a whole lot of good anymore. Even HTC's Touch Diamond stepped to the game with 4GB, 25x your capacity.
Put the kibosh on the Centro / Gandolf / Treo 800p - Turns out the Treo Centro is one of your best selling phones of all time. Congrats! But I do think that has more to do with the aggressive price point, and less to do the device itself. And as of July, $100 for a Centro (with EDGE) became a whole lot harder for consumers to justify in the face of a $200 iPhone (with 3G). You may have to make this one free if you want to continue fending off Cupertino.
You also just announced the Pro, which you're selling unlocked for $550 -- which means you couldn't get AT&T on board to sell it alongside the iPhone at $200 subsidized, or something like that. I don't remember the last time you launched a new flagship product in the US that didn't have a carrier launch partner, so we have to wonder a bit why AT&T got cold feet.
The real point here is to say I still don't really think Palm's on the right track with these devices. They feel just as out of touch with where the market's gone. On the flip side, at least you're trying SOMETHING new, which is a departure from the last few years of Palm products. Plus, a couple million Centros don't lie, nor does NPD's stats which peg Palm's share of US smartphone sales in 1H08 gaining 3% to 12% (over 1H07's 9%). So we'll give you the 600. This time.
Software suggestions
Completely overhaul the OS - In the time you've tried and failed with Cobalt / OS 6, tried again (and failed again) with that next-gen Linux OS (later sold to ACCESS), and have been working on the next-next-gen Linux platform: RIM's totally overhauled their entire user experience and sold a gazillion devices, Microsoft has shipped nearly a half dozen versions of Windows Mobile, Apple's shipped two versions of their mobile platform, and Android was announced and is just about ready to ship.
Meanwhile your target for 2007 turned into end of 2008, then early 2009, and now the first half of 2009 (according to a recent NYT profile) -- but the fact that there's no official (or leaked) alpha shots, no public or private SDK, or really nothing else to go by at this point leaves us skeptical, to say the least. But hey, in the midst of Helio's unraveling you did pick up the dude behind the SideKick's interface, and if there's one thing Android doesn't have going for it so far, it seems to be UI savvy.
The rest (be open, add true multi-tasking, embrace developers, add a better browser, offer great Mac support, beef up the multimedia, and get with Google) - These are a little harder to directly gauge, because they presumed you'd have actually shipped (or at least begun to detail) the new platform by now. But you haven't. And almost all the points we made are still as valid today as they were last year, with only a small amount of forward motion coming from only the most tenacious 3rd party developers still trying to plug the holes.
Fortunately, you still have an advantageous position, especially in light of Apple's false-openness with the iPhone. You need to really let devs and users get their hands dirty with your platform and devices. Trust us, people are getting sick of the iPhone App Store gulag, and Android's radical openness is going to help shift things in the other direction. Bank on differentiation, you might not have any other choice. Since we're not any better off today, though, you get a Foleo. Just one though, not all seven.
Other Stuff
Stop wasting money on the Foleo - Sure, the whole netbook market really started to take off around the time you were killing the Foleo, but I stand by that recommendation big time. What some people didn't see in hindsight was that the Foleo was a totally different concept than netbooks, and was poorly positioned from the start. Expecting users to fork out $600 for a giant "companion" device in order to make up for the long list of shortcomings in your own mobile platform is no way to sell either product.
And unfortunately for the Foleo, it couldn't have lived as a netbook, either; Eee PCs still would have outpaced it because they provide a proper laptop-like experience, be it with Windows XP or just having Firefox in Linux. The Foleo didn't just shirk the experience we appreciate in a good netbook, it also depended heavily on having a cellphone and syncing services between devices. (For example, it couldn't do email by itself -- it required a phone to sync email with and send through.)
In fact, as you may recall, I got to spend some time with a late-model Foleo. Everything about it was underwhelming, and the one thing the Foleo needed to nail -- the browsing -- was a complete failure. (Think: no tabs, no Flash, couldn't even load Gmail, and LOTS of crashing.) Plus, going up against Asus's Eee would have eventually turned out to be a major distraction for an already distracted company, as well as an uphill battle due to the Foleo's fundamentally flawed premise. Trust me when I say that the idea won't be vidicated, and that the smartest thing Palm ever did with the Foleo was to kill it.
Make better ads - "It's a Palm thing" That's really the best you guys could do? These are some of the worst technology ads I've ever seen. And what's worse, they don't even tell you anything about the devices (like, say, why it would be a better choice than a BlackBerry or the iPhone). If I were you, I'd drop Young and Rubicam and run for the hills. Maybe pick up TBWA \ Chiat \ Day -- the people that make the iPhone ads should know better than anyone how to counter them.
Stop keeping us in the dark - Again, nothing much has changed here. No clear timelines have been set for the next-gen OS in spite of developers flocking in droves to Apple's platform. If devs were on the fence before, they've jumped it by now. Would it really hurt to tell people how things are going? Palm has a blog, yet we rarely see it used for anything but the usual company line-toeing.
In fact, I might say things are even more closed off than they were before, and Ed Colligan still won't sit down with Engadget to talk about what's going on with Palm. To be fair, when we last saw him out at an event, Ed expressed interest in an interview with Engadget. But for whatever reason, try though we might, the people at Palm won't seem to let us drop by for a sit-down. Go figure.
So let's see where we stand!
That's four Treo 600s!
And eight Foleos.
Ouch, that's a total score of -4. Or, if you want to look at it glass-half-full, that's four things that have been tangibly improved over this time last year.
Without sounding like too much of a broken record, are we really better off with today's Palm products? Devices take 12-18+ months from start to ship, but I think a lot of us believed that after Elevation's recapitalization and the installation of former iPod executive Jon Rubinstein to lead your product-development, we might see some short term results. In a sense, we have -- you've managed to win over some new Palm converts selling a lot of budget-priced Centros -- but it's hardly a satisfying return to the high-flying glory days.
I'd also wager that kind of gain won't be long term. RIM and Apple know that business devices have to get personal, and vice-versa; your current (and from what we can tell, future) offerings don't seem to address the need for a single, versatile, do everything device. (Say, doesn't that sound a little like the original Treo mission statement?) We're in the same Palm stasis we've been in for about a half a decade now, waiting for the new software as the launch timetables slip quarter after quarter, year after year.
Picking up the Android mantle still seems like a great short-term move, but it seems like once again you'd rather go to bat with Linux alone. That's understandable to a certain extent, but why not at least build a few Android devices alongside your forthcoming Nova / Palm OS II, Windows Mobile, and legacy Garnet-based handsets? It'd show you're still interested in staying relevant and competitive as an important new mobile platform emerges, or at very least that you're humble enough to recognize there hasn't been a major Palm OS update since 2002. No, we aren't expecting Ed to give us another public response, just for Palm to make good on its heritage of innovation -- however you want to define the word.
Ryan Block is the editor-at-large of Engadget, and is currently at work on a new gadget-related content startup.
If you know a company or technology in need of a little advice (especially one too afraid to ask for it), hit him up at engadgetcaresATengadgetDOTcom.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
waiownsyou @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:33PM
The Congress? WHY?!
Hush @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:55PM
Don't let the door hit you on the way out Block!
Haha. j/k. Thanks for Engadget douchebag....
Seriously, go F yourself...
LOL, just messin with ya.
blakepro @ Aug 22nd 2008 7:54PM
And why dont we have Vista 64 bit USB drivers yet?!!?? It makes no sense! It cant be that hard! I cant even sync my palm because I have a new computer. If/when I buy a new PDA, it wont be a Palm. Its worthless to me at this point without usb drivers.
Hung @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:37PM
Ryan Block's last day at Engadget? :,(
Good luck wherever you go and we'll definitely miss the great articles. You'll always be in RSS feeds (for those of us who never clean them out)!
Hung @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:39PM
... in OUR RSS feeds...
Hey, as a last-day-no-fear-of-tomorrow-action, you want to enable post editing?
Ryan Block @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:51PM
Would have done so years ago if I could! Unfortunately we don't have direct control over the software that powers the site, it's developed by a different group within our company.
DBrim @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:29PM
I think this company needs an "engadget cares".
Seminole @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:32PM
Ryan,
Then go punch everyone in that developing group in the face for us. Its your last day, not like they can fire you, so go out with a bang!
Ryan Block @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:52PM
Ha!
phanbouy @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:55PM
Bureaucracy's a bitch.
Benson @ Aug 22nd 2008 3:41PM
Yeah Ryan! As in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzr4nA1thsQ
alexmueller @ Aug 22nd 2008 3:53PM
Hey Ryan how about the results to the Wii fit test, or did i miss that?
Dan Halen @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:37PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/08/treo-600-icon.jpg
Jeremy K. @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:37PM
Can't say they didn't tr.. well, wait...
Mam00th @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:38PM
For some reason I though four treos would mean +4
Hung @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:40PM
Yeah, I thought 8 foleos would mean -8. Guess we were both wrong. Whodathunkit?
edogawaconan @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:43PM
in engadget, 3 = 4 :)
Ryan Block @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:44PM
Yeah, woops! Wrote this before the Pro was official, and some edits this morning resulted in a few numbers off. Should be good now though.
Oinquer @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:45PM
ryan probably already commemorating with everyone else lol
Justin @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:41PM
What's Ryan moving on to? What's his new gadget-related start-up, as referenced at the end of the State of Palm Follow-Up article?
Leggi @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:43PM
No need in beating the dead horse. Palm is dead.
Randavance @ Aug 22nd 2008 4:42PM
I still love em. Always have, always will. If all goes well I'll be sporting a treo pro running the new os on verizon by late 2009. But that might be a little too optimistic.
Richard Lai @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:45PM
Ryan, I thought you had already left!
tyler @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:52PM
Nope.
http://www.engadget.com/bloggers/ryan-block/
Richard Lai @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:06PM
Oh dear... I never paid attention to the names!
Taylor @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:47PM
Yeah, my friend worked at Palm, got a Foleo, the thing was freaking horrible. All i wanted it for was the web and it choked even on that. I tried to use google maps and found myself pulling out my phone to map it instead. The Foleo was supposed to be used INSTEAD of a phone when you had space for something larger! It failed miserably.
And the EE would have destroyed it!
-Taylor
phanbouy @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:57PM
hey, you're Taylor, right?
Serial 8-Ball Mouse @ Aug 22nd 2008 4:25PM
Is an EE like an Eee... but worse?
Wait, two capitals... better?
...
I lost my train of thought.
digitallysick @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:52PM
I think the newest palm device is excellent. It has style, i hope they stay on that track. If palm could slap a 5 megapixel cam, bluetooth stereo , 3g, MMS, and expandable memory we would be set. Also palm, i hate windows mobile, can we polish up the palm os or go with android?
Randavance @ Aug 22nd 2008 4:57PM
What you just described sounds really good. I hope Palm takes the time to consider some of these comments as well as the article. I love Palm, especially since I found a gameboy emulator that runs on their OS and lets me play Pokemon, but even a 3 mega pixle camera would be pretty rocking.
I disagree a little though, if you're going to have a buetooth headphones hooked up to the thing, have at least 8 gigs storage and throw in a sexy music playing UI.
PS: Palm, if you're reading this, and are considering a sexy music player on your future phones (and you had better), please MAKE IT OPEN TO OTHER FORMATS OF MUSIC! So many of us who love .ogg and .flac have been left out in the cold. It's not hard, it's all open code. And then make it recognizable as a mass storage device. Hell, with little effort you would be the only company to do a good sexy phone/pmp that's completely cross platform and linux compatible. Adding just that to the treo pro would make me drop verizon and buy one today.
Geoff @ Aug 25th 2008 11:22AM
I've got the 680 and an 8G card and Softick's software to do bluetooth. The device does everything and has been great for me. Obviously the Pro features are great - I'd love wi-fi, gps, thinner, etc. ... but can't put up with windows mobile - not to mention I'd have to re-buy all of my software.
sjmilacci @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:54PM
Couldn't have said it better my self Ryan. Since my first Treo I have always clung to the dream of Palm doing something actually innovative, but after Three Palm devices I had to switch to WinMo. I really don't even like WM6 that much, but it just has so much more capabilities. Well, it seems like I won't be getting a new Palm phone for a while.
wireless.nemo @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:57PM
Ahhhh.... Palm...
I have a Treo 755p, and can't stand it. It does a few things moderately well - but the rest is just.... ugh. This entire article (as well as the original), completely echos my sentiments.
I think the 755p is a very well designed device, aesthetically. While it could be a touch lighter, I like the size, the way it fits my hand, and don't mind the thickness. I like how the buttons are squeezed together -- I hate wasted real estate (like the Centro, 800w, and Pro). If Palm could keep a similar design, with a larger (and better) screen -- with a completely overhauled OS, I think it could save them. It's the OS that's killing them, me thinks.
I will most likely be going to the HTC Touch Pro when it is released. I'm not giving up my Sprint SERO plan until they pry it from my cold, dead, hands. :)
OnlyShawn @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:34PM
htc touch pro for me, as well...coming off my 700p. BUT...I will miss chatteremail. AFAIK, there's no way to get personal (as in, w/o exchange) email pushed to your phone on a winmo device. But, I'll deal with it, because that phone is so swissarmyknifeawesome.
Edward @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:58PM
Nicely done piece, although not as Earth-shattering as last year's. Then again, Palm hasn't done anything Earth-shattering since last year -- the low profit margin Centro, mildly interesting Treo 800w, and a why-isn't-it-subsidized Treo Pro. In any industry, you can take the high road of innovative, high-quality, premium-priced offering or commoditized, decent quality, low-priced offering. If you're stuck in the middle, game over.
Palm, please do something. Let us know what you're doing. The skeptics will call it vaporware, but the faithful (Palm Economy/PalmOS fanboys) will stay on for a little bit longer. At this point, you don't have anything to lose by showing a roadmap. It's not as if Apple or HTC is going to steal your ideas. Besides, enterprises like roadmaps.
Adam @ Aug 22nd 2008 1:59PM
Ryan,
You're the greatest.
WarMouse @ Aug 22nd 2008 3:15PM
I second that motion.
Graham @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:00PM
Well said, leaving with a bang. I love my centro but yes, i have to agree, there is so much its lacking that I feel slighted and the fact that Im getting no updates or anything, the only really cool game being bejewled, etc. I hope they can revive themselves in time.
We will miss you Ryan.
Carl Vitullo @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:17PM
No, by far the BEST game for Palm devices is Bike or Die.
Little physics based biking game, and it is a lot of fun.
http://bike.toyspring.com/forum.php?th=28380
Mam00th @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:00PM
All right, now my comment doesn't make any senses... Thanks Ryan...
konshuss @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:06PM
"it's a palm thing" gives off the impression that if you don't have one, you're not part of the club - you're on the outside looking in - you don't "get it" ... and i for one am perfectly okay with that.
Victor Agreda Jr @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:07PM
Meh, I've completely written off Palm, and I was a very early adopter of the platform (even going so far as whittling a block of wood in the shape of a Palm to illustrate what the creator did). But years of decay and the incomprehensible selling off the OS has only made this like some crazy, ugly death spiral.
I hope everyone working on the day-to-day stuff at Palm lands on their feet.
Johan S @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:09PM
Ryan, it's going to suck without you. What's your next gig?
You really made engadget awesome, and we appreciate that you actually read and respond to comments on here (unlike most other blogs out there).
Doug Hays @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:10PM
Not to get picky about math, but wouldn't that be a glass one-third full (4 things right out of 12)?
Jason @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:10PM
See ya Ryan :wavey:
phanbouy @ Aug 22nd 2008 3:01PM
thou shalt not wavey
Markyb86 @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:17PM
As a centro user for the past 6 months.. they should have gotten the 7 foleos instead of the 1. My fiance and I are moving towards some HTC products next month!
trumpton @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:19PM
Can't say I agree with much of the above. I've had no problem with the Centro's keyboard and it's way better than a crapola sliding keyboard (try using one of them with one hand, Ryan).
The Centro's design is attractive to most people's eyes (if only the 2 million people who've bought one) and the Pro is a great looking phone.
Love the way you're rewriting your own history with the Foleo: I can remember Engadget laughing out loud saying that no one would want a low powered laptop with limited functionality and then - whoops! - along comes the massively successful low powered laptop with limited functionality Eee etc etc.
Still, if you're going does this mean they're might be a little less Apple ass-sucking? At times it's been painful to watch.
NDPTAL85 @ Aug 22nd 2008 3:50PM
Ryan was right about small laptops. The fact that a lot of companies are jumping on the EEE bandwagon does not mean they'll be a success. Dell and HP have held back from actually manufacturing the things en masse because there doesn't seem to be a huge market of people who will pay $500 for a 8" laptop.
You also conveniently leave out the fact that the Foleo was even less powered than those EEE laptops. Damn thing couldn't even surf the web without being connected to a cell phone.
Ben @ Aug 22nd 2008 2:22PM
I don't know -- I would have changed three of those Foleos to Treos ... I happen to love the Centro's looks, screen, and keyboard. Maybe I have three year old thumbs, but I don't really notice any reduction in efficiency from the Treo 650 or even my old Blackberry 7230.