We thought we had seen all of Sony's
2008 ES lineup, but boy were we distinctly incorrect. Sony Japan has today revealed a trio of newcomers, two of which we've never seen before. The TA-DA5400ES packs a 120-watt x 7 channel internal amplifier, six HDMI inputs (and 2 outputs), six optical audio jacks and three sets of component inputs (among others). As for the STR-DA3400ES, the wattage steps down to 100-watts per channel and the port selection isn't nearly as robust; the
STR-DG820 is already available in the States, making us believe this one's just an overseas re-release. Anywho, feel free to check out the full specifications in the read link below, and you can look for these to land (at least in Japan) this November.
[Via
SonyInsider]
posted Aug 27th 2008 4:20PM
If you are looking at a flagship receiver, you are better off checking out Denon, marantz, Harmon Kardon, Onkyo Integra, Rotel and Anthem over Sony, even their ES line, just to name some of the major ones.
Marantz? A division of Panasonic. I don't see how you hold up a division of Panasonic above a division of Sony.
Harmon Kardon also makes some very pedestrian amps, I can't say I'd automatically recommend a Harmon Kardon over a Sony ES unseen.
I've always loved Onkyo's top-end receivers. Back in the day when Sony receivers were crap, Onkyo was putting out 15 lb. monsters. Obviously Sony's quality has stepped up quite a bit. I, in fact, own a Sony now because I got it open box at CC for about 40% retail (to this day I think it must have been mismarked). But truth be told I'd rather have a TX-SR806. Hot.
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR806&class=Receiver&p=i
I have a Sony STR-DA777ES that is close to going on ten years old and still works perfectly. They even put out a firmware upgrade that allows 7.1 audio.
"Marantz? A division of Panasonic. I don't see how you hold up a division of Panasonic above a division of Sony."
Well, that is where you would be niave of the subject matter. Marantz makes nothing but rock solid simple and clean products. Marantz has always been geared towards the upper-mid to high-end range, this did not change when they were acquired by a larger holding company. Being owned by a larger holding companies is nothing new in the world of high-end stereo and home theater companies. In fact, Marantz and Denon merged to form D&M Holdings, who now also own McIntosh, Boston Acoustics and Snell. Usually these divisions are left along to go about their daily business, they just have access to more resources than before, it has also helped kept some high-end company alive.
Marantz has been known for many years for the quality of their amps, this is still the case. I would take a marantz amp over a Sony amp any day. Especially since marantz (this also includes companies like Denon, HK and Onkyo) doesn't need to use marketing tactics to make their amps look more powerful or better.
When compared to what else is out there for the same price, Sony receivers just look and sound mediocre.
I used to consider and usually buy Marantz first, but these days they don't even bother offering to sell their products in Vancouver any longer. As such they don't seem to be a player worth considering up north, unfortunately (if they don't want to SELL, God forbid you need to get it repaired). I ended up buying new Yamaha 6180 in the end. Sony ES is full of features but overpriced and very hard to get discounts on, not to mention ES model selection in Canada is limited. Onkyo and Denon both have too many issues in their $1.5-$2k range receivers to be worth the money, too. And other smaller players are lagging behind in features (specifically HDMI 1.3 related stuff).
Marantz doesn't use marketing? Harmon Kardon doesn't use marketing? Haha. That's pretty funny.
It's really amazing the justifications people use to back up their preferences.
Go buy some $100 attenuator knobs.
If you had actually take the time to read you would have noticed that I never said other companies don't use marketing, just that they don't need to use marketing to make their amps (notice I specifically said amps, you know, the electronic part of a receiver that takes the audio source and "amplifies" it to power the speakers) look more powerful.
Sony is notorious for using a peak rating system so they can claim that their amps really put out more watts that what they really do under normal usage. The quality major players when it comes to receivers and amps do not do this, they do not have to rely on that to make their amps looks more powerful.
If you are really concerned why I prefer marantz amps over other amps, not only is it because their watt rating is true when compare to Sony, but their output quality is better. Marantz amps produce a high quality, low distortion, full, rich and powerful sound that has an amazing sound stage. When it was paired with my Paradigm Studio series speakers, they sounded amazing, producing true sound whether it is my rock/metal music or watching movies in full surround sound. I am also a huge fun of marantz simplistic design, there is no need for a bunch of worthless DSPs or bells a whistles.
I have been through a few receivers and demoed many more. Marantz currently just happens to be my favorite receiver line, though I would also consider Denon, H/K, Onkyo Integra and maybe Yamaha depending on the speakers it was paired with. I feel that Sony has put forth nothing but medicore receivers in the past 10+ years that I have been a stereo and home theater enthusiast. Currently I am using some Anthem MCA 20's in my main setup for my amp needs, but I have dreams of upgrading to Bryston down the road. I am currently using my Marantz receiver as my pre/pro, but am looking at the new marantz AV8003 pre/pro to finally go to a true dedicated separate system.
I will pass on the attenuator knobs, but do you happen to have any coat hanger cables?
I use Paradigms too, on my Sony ES amp.
Your comments about the amp "peak" ratings are several years old. You might as well break out "All Your Base Are Belong to Us". Sony has changed their amp technology completely since people started that meme. And although the new amp technology hasn't been perfect either (witness the problems with the DA5000ES), the new technology has completely different characteristics than the old one. Using the old arguments to rip on new equipment just makes it look like you're starting from the conclusion and grabbing any at hand argument to bolster it.
And you know what? You are.
I have had many Sony amps (including the DA5000ES mentioned above), and I have had several Denon amps (I still use a Denon non-A/V receiver at work as my amp) and my roommate had a Denon amp right after college.
They all have their hits and misses. My work Denon amp sounds great. But it didn't sound as good as my Sony STR-DA90ESG amp (receiver). My new Sony amp (5300) sounds great, as good as my work Denon amp to my ear, but again, not as good as my DA90ESG. Meanwhile, my DA5000ES sounded awful. It had serious noise floor problems (as reported widely on the internet), and didn't even sound particularly good when it wasn't having noise floor problems. And although I generally hold Denon in high regard, my roommate's Denon receiver (one of their first to use a DSP to decode Dolby Pro Logic) was a complete piece of crap, producing a ridiculously high noise floor and distortion unless the processing circuits were bypassed.
Finally, if you're gonna use the Sony meme, it isn't that Sony uses peak ratings, no one uses peak ratings for receivers (they do for combo systems), Sony uses RMS ratings. It's that Sony doesn't drive all channels when making their ratings. So, if you had a source has constant signal on in all 7 (on some amps 5) channels, the power supply will overload and the power output to the channels will be reduced.
However, this is borderline ridiculous. No movie soundtrack hits peak levels in all channels at once. Most don't ever hit peak levels in the surround channels at all. Unless you have your amp up to borderline distortion, you are using less than half (likely far less than half) of the rated power anyway.
I've seen a lot of amps in my day. Yamahas, Marantz (back in the 70s, when they WERE top end), Sony, Denon, Onkyo, Harmon Kardon, etc. All of them have their highs and lows to put forth one brand as across the board better at a given price point is pretty naive. That doesn't mean a Rotel isn't almost always better than a Sony, but then again, you don't pay the same amount for them.
I have yet to hear or read that Sony is not still up to its wiley ways with wattage rating on their amps. Peak may not have been the best word, but the fact remains that they still use a rating system that skews their results in their favor. Other companies (Denon, marantz, HK, Pioneer, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc...) have since ditched this tatic and use a system for rating their amps more condusive to real world conditions. From results I have seen, Denon, marantz and HK seem to be pretty spot on with their rating with what stereo and home theather mags or sites like to use.
I try to keep up with the technology just because it is something I enjoy, my wife doesn't get it, but I also don't get her obsession with all her purses that look the same. Either way, I enjoy visiting my local high end audio shop just to shot the breeze with the guys and play with the gear. I can honestly say, compare to what is out there, Sony just hasn't done anything to impress me, their amps do not sound as good as others. I find better value from companies like Denon, marantz, Onkyo and HK and actually Pioneer as of lately, they have been putting forth a lot of bang for your buck.
I will agree with you that each manufacture has its hits and misses, but I think overall, Denon, marantz and HK currently are very dependable and always a good choice. Due to this fact, I feel that it is hard to go wrong with choicing any one of those companies, that you are going to get a lot for your money. These companies have proven that their amps are good, which one is better is more of a personal choice due to their sound signature. Which is why I am confident in saying that almost any receiver that you buy from these companies will be a excellent choice and get you a great sounding amp.
This is where Sony falls short, as they have been putting our medicore recievers and amps from many years now compared to what is out there. Sony right now only carries a brand name, which still lures people into buying their receivers.
zargon:
You miss most of the point.
Driving all 7 channels at full power is not real-world conditions. You say other companies are testing under real world conditions? If so, then Sony is too.
Yes, driving all 7 channels at full power at the same instant is tougher than how Sony tests their equipment. But it isn't usually necessary, you're paying for something you will never use.
I just looked up the Denon AVR-2308CI. It is rated at 100W x 7, or 700W continuous output.
It is rated at 5.5A @ 120V or 660W power input. I assure you you cannot produce 700W of continuous power output from only 660W of power input. With efficiency losses, it isn't even all that close. And with 120W rated to the switched outlets, you're really down on power left over for the amp.
You really need to reinvestigate what you "know" about receivers and how different companies rate them.
No, I am not missing the point, you are the one that is missing the point. I did not say that other companies methods of measuring are perfect, nor did I say that it is identical to real world conditions, lets get that straight right now. I merely stated that other companies, unlike Sony, use test that are MORE CONDUCIVE to real world conditions. I also went on to say that these other companies rating systems are pretty much spot on with what the industry, reviewers, have chosen to use as a way to measure amp power rating.
You have done nothing but try to twist words and when confronted with it, back peddle, but I digress. The fact of the matter still remains that Sony uses methods for rating their amps that skews the results in their favor. That other companies do not use these methods and in fact, use methods the majority of the industry uses and are more conducive to real world conditions. Due to this and other factors, like amp quality, I stand firm by my claim that you can do better for the money with other companies like Denon, marantz, HK, Onkyo, etc... for your amping needs and also that Sony has not put out a impressive receiver for some time now.
Harmon Kardon ftw.
Yeah, if you like units that haven't been tested thoroughly enough to know if they'll accept LPCM signals via HDMI WITHOUT POPPING ALL THE FREAKING TIME.
I traded in my AVR-347 for a Pioneer Elite 91TXH and couldn't be happier. The HK had issues with LPCM signals from a PS3, a Panny 10, 30 and my Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray. It even did it with different speakers and some research showed I wasn't the only person having problems.
I wouldn't buy an HK again. Ever.
you mean Harman Kardon.. a connaiseur, i recon
In other news, five kids' heads were crushed in unfortunate installation accidents.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/06/26/sony-is-adding-three-es-receivers-to-its-2008-line-up/
kind of old guys...
Denon is the best bang for the buck IMO.
WTF Sony? Why didn't you include a tape deck??? This is BULLSHIT.
joke referring to...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/27/sony-debuts-1-500-sacd-player-with-hdmi-output/
My media gets pumped through a mid-90'd Aiwa shelf system in glorious analog stereo.
Better take out a insurance policy ! ; )
Sorry I don't feel like spending $799 on a reciever that can process HDMI audio signals. Harmon has a great line of cheaper recievers but they all require a seperate audio connection. I did find a Harmon that could process the signal for $599 on sale but that is still too rich for me.
When Sony offers a $299 reciever that can process HDMI audio I find it incredibly short sided for Yamaha and others to not offer the same.
100 geek points to the person who can name six devices they would like to have HDMI'd in at the same time.
Computer, HD Tivo (OTA), DirecTV, HD DVD player, Xbox360, PS3.
XBox 360
PS3
BD Player
DVD Player
TiVo
HTPC
That's 6... but I only have 1 of those, so I'll take my 2 HDMI inputs.
coffee grinder
lawn chair
grapes
your mom
apple IIC
wild parrots of telegraph hill
My mom , in 6 different inputs
TA-DA!
I just read through the comments looking for that one.. that was the first thing that came to mind when I read the article.
The release date on that read link was 11/10/06... wtf? For receivers I like McIntosh, Pioneer, and Denon.
The release date from the read link was 11/20/06... thats kinda awhile ago isn't it?
Anyways.. for receivers I like McIntosh, Pioneer, Onkyo
The loss of an AM/FM tuner is bizarre.
I am told from other sources this amp can upconvert and overlay over HDMI input sources, supposedly even over those that use HDCP. This, if true, is a big advantage over the 5300.
That must be an error on Sony's site (its not uncommon for them to have errors in their date tables), because these two receivers are brand new and have very little coverage on the Internet. If they were from c. 2006 there would be far more information on the Internet regarding these products. The features and so forth also confirm that.
So does 2 HDMI outputs mean that it could output two different devices to two different TVs at the same time?
For instance, I have two TVs sitting right next to each other. Could I plug all my devices (360, cable box, PS3, computer) into this receiver, and then run say, the 360 video to the first TV at the same time I'm running the cable box to the second TV? And then switch that around however I want just by switching inputs?
I don't know about the same time, I have seen some devices that will and some that will only do one or the other.
The dual output feature is mainly for multi-room setups or people who have a TV and a projector.
ironically this particular model could...
it has a mutiroom out which allows you to watch two separate video sources in two separate "rooms" using your main 7.1 and a secondary stereo system (presumably the tv in the kids room or whatnot)
so if you wanted to play 360 on the 23 in monitor while watching a blu-ray on your plasma, you could do that with this model
and the remote features 736 buttons labeled in size 1pt font for your convenience.
62.
im surprised sony didnt jack up this remote and give make it bluetooth as well.
I owned a sony 30es and it was a very nice receiver. i updated to a 333es and it was terrible. Im an onkyo guy now
Apple TV
Xbox 360
PS3
DirecTV HD DVR
TiVo Series3
HTPC
I have yet to hear or read that Sony is not still up to its wiley ways with wattage rating on their amps. Peak may not have been the best word, but the fact remains that they still use a rating system that skews their results in their favor. Other companies (Denon, marantz, HK, Pioneer, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc...) have since ditched this tatic and use a system for rating their amps more condusive to real world conditions. From results I have seen, Denon, marantz and HK seem to be pretty spot on with their rating with what stereo and home theather mags or sites like to use.
I try to keep up with the technology just because it is something I enjoy, my wife doesn't get it, but I also don't get her obsession with all her purses that look the same. Either way, I enjoy visiting my local high end audio shop just to shot the breeze with the guys and play with the gear. I can honestly say, compare to what is out there, Sony just hasn't done anything to impress me, their amps do not sound as good as others. I find better value from companies like Denon, marantz, Onkyo and HK and actually Pioneer as of lately, they have been putting forth a lot of bang for your buck.
I will agree with you that each manufacture has its hits and misses, but I think overall, Denon, marantz and HK currently are very dependable and always a good choice. Due to this fact, I feel that it is hard to go wrong with choicing any one of those companies, that you are going to get a lot for your money. These companies have proven that their amps are good, which one is better is more of a personal choice due to their sound signature. Which is why I am confident in saying that almost any receiver that you buy from these companies will be a excellent choice and get you a great sounding amp.
This is where Sony falls short, as they have been putting our medicore recievers and amps from many years now compared to what is out there. Sony right now only carries a brand name, which still lures people into buying their receivers.