No flash or java, but it's still a major improvement compared to what lot of mobiles phones had which showed a 'mobile' version of a website. I will take the Safari version :-).
Fanboy, how can you call no flash or java a major improvement? Are you still trying to justify your iphone purchase? Jeez!
How is it that cut and paste, java and flash are still a conundrum to a big innovative company like apple? (I suspect they have a real reason but are not telling)
well, the iPhone seems to show "iPhone formatted" web pages... The phone clearly cant handle the full web. I've had safari crash a lot when loading big pages.
@OneLove - the major improvement is how well you can browse full web pages on the iPhone vs on a Palm, Black Berry or WinMo cell. Go out and try each phone and then come back and tell us which one is the best for browsing. Yeah flash and java are missing from the iPhone but who cares - those pages suck on any smartphone.
@ian - yes some pages are formatted for the iPhone by the site creator to add iPhone specific features but you dont have to use those pages. You can go to their standard page and navigate it just fine on the iPhone.
Are there any normal webpage you can go to that don't require flash or java? NoScript in Firefox makes it seem like almost every page has some sort of flash or java script...that would make it quite difficult to browse the internet on it then.
ian: Christ, the stupidity still amazes me. Did you know web sites can detect which browser you're using and redirect to a specially formatted page for your browser? A lot of sites do that for the iPhone now. It does NOT mean that Safari on the iPhone can't handle normal web sites. I mean... the sheer idiocy of that statement is pretty going beyond normal stupid. It's megastupid.
Hey OneLove, how about not having the performance hit/battery drain; annoying ads, and ability to fry an egg on my phone I'll get with the flash support. Quantity of content on flash doesn't equal quality/quality of content on flash.
And you do know that other devices allow you to configure your browser so that it treats your device as a desktop not some piss poor purpose built compromise?
But this isn't about iPhone vs. Whatever. Apple lied by saying that the iPhone gives you the whole Internet. Whether you like Flash content or not, it's part of the Internet. Also, Internet != web. Where's my FTP client, Apple? ;)
"How is it that cut and paste, java and flash are still a conundrum to a big innovative company like apple?"
They aren't, you're just not thinking straight. In case no-one noticed, Apple are incredibly smart at marketing. The features you mentioned will come in the iPhone 3G Flash whereby, like the iPhone 3G, several-year old technologies that should have been on the phone in the first place are put on there, with El Jobso standing on stage with essentially the same phone as the last two, announcing that these commonplace technologies are now present on the iPhone. When questioned on why cut and paste, java and flash were not present on the preceeding phones, Apple will create some story about reduced battery life, reduced performance or some crap and all the fanboys will say "OMG LEIK THAT IS SOOO TRUE LOL!!!1!11!!"; all the while N95 users sitting there comfortably playing Newgrounds games and viewing videos on websites other than YouTube.
Of course when those technologies emerge on the iPhone, Apple will no doubt incorporate code that helps 'user security'. Features such as requiring Apple to approve all videos on any website just in case the iPhone is left vulnerable, and only being able to copy and paste less than 100 characters in case of virus replication.
P.S. For all the iPhone fanboys that become enraged at my statement, I'll leave you alone as I maybe use my 2-year-old Samsung D900 to transfer some files to my friends with Bluetooth, install some Java applications - and maybe if it crashes I'll just take the battery out and put it back in again, and then maybe check an MS Office document or a PDF - just to make sure it's okay. Don't worry, I'll take some pictures with my 3MP camera too.
Mark - More name calling? Really? That's pretty sad, but not unexpected. And why would Safari need to be redirected? It passed the exact same tests Opera did. What exactly is the part of that whole thing that you're having trouble with? Was it the 100% part? Was it the "doesn't need to be redirected" part?
What other excuses can you make up? I want to see how far you can go with the excuses and backpedaling. I'm laughing at the whole "redirected" thing too, where did that come from? I mean you have obviously never actually used Safari on the iPhone or we wouldn't be having this delightful conversation. Haha, needs to be redirected. That's hilarious.
You forgot to tell them you'll have a video of your adventures too! :-D Maybe from a basic S40 device from Nokia (you know... the kinda ones you can get for $50) or any other phone that has a camera!
I call no Flash and no Java a HUGE improvement. In the last few months I've simply been avoiding sites that render in Flash. There are plenty of alternative sites out there. If I Google something and I hit a site that uses flash for navigation I hit the back button, and not just on my iPhone. For the rest there is Adblock Plus.
Flash is the last refuge if the incompetent Web developer. Look at Apple's web site, for example. Lots of interactive stuff, looks really good, no flash.
@Zak Apple claimed that the iPhone has the "whole Internet".
The Acid3 test does not indicate whether a device or browser can show the whole Internet. It only provides compliance testing for SOME web technologies.
Mobile OSX's Safari obviously scores 0% on the Flash compliance test. Whether you like it or not, Flash is used through-out the Internet.
hey i just bought the iCar. the iLighter doesn't work and it only hs 3 iWheels but i'm told i can use the in-car system(an iPhone) to get the 4th from the online store in a few months. oh but by the way, they're redesigning the shape of the wheels so you'll have to buy all 4. and also a new iCar to fit them on.
This is not the first time the brit advertising standards agency has come down on Apple. They got trashed for the G5 Power Mac "world's most powerful PC" ads because, as the agency claimed, it was not the fastest computer available at all tasks under all circumstances.
As for this one? Seems like they're being awfully nitpicky. I think the iPhone browser fits the description, relative to other mobile browsers, even if you can't see flash and javascript.
In fact, judging by your low rankings, it seems about 100% of Engadget thinks you're a total cock. Still never mind, there's always that photo of Steve for you to pleasure yourself over.
I hadn't thought of that; mind you, with all of those other really, really, really battery draining tasks going on - well, I'd better get my Nokia 6230 from 2003 to video instead.
Even my V220 had video. That's a relief! We all thought that the iPhone not having video was bad! Can you imagine if people like Motorola or Nokia started putting it on their entry-level phones? Can you imagine?
When that day comes, Apple should really start feeling embarrassed...
To the guys above me, who the hell uses Java applets in a web browser anymore? This is NOT 1996 for god sakes. While Flash is nice, Adobe's OSX port is incredibly inefficient! It literally will cause a new macbook pro's fans to go to max RPM, while the CPU utilization will be pegged at 100%. I can only imagine if they used the desktop version on the iPhone without extensive optimization work.
Regardless, every other "smartphone" besides the iPhone that I've used to browse the web has been so deplorable, that it wouldn't matter if you had Flash or Java support! The iPhone is WAY AHEAD of every other device on the market.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
No flash or java, but it's still a major improvement compared to what lot of mobiles phones had which showed a 'mobile' version of a website. I will take the Safari version :-).
Fanboy, how can you call no flash or java a major improvement? Are you still trying to justify your iphone purchase? Jeez!
How is it that cut and paste, java and flash are still a conundrum to a big innovative company like apple? (I suspect they have a real reason but are not telling)
FYI Skyfire Beta has Java Flash and can play youtube videos in the browser. Oh and its faster than Safari mobile, Opera mobile, IE mobile....
The PSP from four years ago has flash http://www.psponme.com/list_psp.asp?cat=Arcade why the I-phone does not I do not understand.
well, the iPhone seems to show "iPhone formatted" web pages... The phone clearly cant handle the full web. I've had safari crash a lot when loading big pages.
@OneLove - the major improvement is how well you can browse full web pages on the iPhone vs on a Palm, Black Berry or WinMo cell. Go out and try each phone and then come back and tell us which one is the best for browsing. Yeah flash and java are missing from the iPhone but who cares - those pages suck on any smartphone.
@ian - yes some pages are formatted for the iPhone by the site creator to add iPhone specific features but you dont have to use those pages. You can go to their standard page and navigate it just fine on the iPhone.
Are there any normal webpage you can go to that don't require flash or java? NoScript in Firefox makes it seem like almost every page has some sort of flash or java script...that would make it quite difficult to browse the internet on it then.
ian: Christ, the stupidity still amazes me. Did you know web sites can detect which browser you're using and redirect to a specially formatted page for your browser? A lot of sites do that for the iPhone now. It does NOT mean that Safari on the iPhone can't handle normal web sites. I mean... the sheer idiocy of that statement is pretty going beyond normal stupid. It's megastupid.
Hey OneLove, how about not having the performance hit/battery drain; annoying ads, and ability to fry an egg on my phone I'll get with the flash support. Quantity of content on flash doesn't equal quality/quality of content on flash.
@cockboy
And you do know that other devices allow you to configure your browser so that it treats your device as a desktop not some piss poor purpose built compromise?
S60's webkit browser has Flash/Java.
But this isn't about iPhone vs. Whatever. Apple lied by saying that the iPhone gives you the whole Internet. Whether you like Flash content or not, it's part of the Internet. Also, Internet != web. Where's my FTP client, Apple? ;)
Mark: So a web browser (Safari) that scores 100/100 on the Acid3 test is a "piss poor compromise" in your opinion?
Wow, you're dumber than I thought. And that's really saying something.
Yeah, not being able to play flash was a major issue I had iTouch (iPhone)...that and a lot of other thigs are the major reasons I returned it!
@cockboy
So what? It scores 100% on *gasp* pages it's directed to! Whoopee!
Meanwhile, in other news, Opera 9.5 scores 100% and doesn't need redirected.
Hey, ever wonder why all your posts are low ranked? I'll not keep you in suspense - it's because you're a fuckmuppet.
@ JMMGoalster
For future reference, Java and JavaScript are two different things. iPhone supports JavaScript.
@ OneLove
"How is it that cut and paste, java and flash are still a conundrum to a big innovative company like apple?"
They aren't, you're just not thinking straight. In case no-one noticed, Apple are incredibly smart at marketing. The features you mentioned will come in the iPhone 3G Flash whereby, like the iPhone 3G, several-year old technologies that should have been on the phone in the first place are put on there, with El Jobso standing on stage with essentially the same phone as the last two, announcing that these commonplace technologies are now present on the iPhone. When questioned on why cut and paste, java and flash were not present on the preceeding phones, Apple will create some story about reduced battery life, reduced performance or some crap and all the fanboys will say "OMG LEIK THAT IS SOOO TRUE LOL!!!1!11!!"; all the while N95 users sitting there comfortably playing Newgrounds games and viewing videos on websites other than YouTube.
Of course when those technologies emerge on the iPhone, Apple will no doubt incorporate code that helps 'user security'. Features such as requiring Apple to approve all videos on any website just in case the iPhone is left vulnerable, and only being able to copy and paste less than 100 characters in case of virus replication.
P.S. For all the iPhone fanboys that become enraged at my statement, I'll leave you alone as I maybe use my 2-year-old Samsung D900 to transfer some files to my friends with Bluetooth, install some Java applications - and maybe if it crashes I'll just take the battery out and put it back in again, and then maybe check an MS Office document or a PDF - just to make sure it's okay. Don't worry, I'll take some pictures with my 3MP camera too.
Mark - More name calling? Really? That's pretty sad, but not unexpected. And why would Safari need to be redirected? It passed the exact same tests Opera did. What exactly is the part of that whole thing that you're having trouble with? Was it the 100% part? Was it the "doesn't need to be redirected" part?
What other excuses can you make up? I want to see how far you can go with the excuses and backpedaling. I'm laughing at the whole "redirected" thing too, where did that come from? I mean you have obviously never actually used Safari on the iPhone or we wouldn't be having this delightful conversation. Haha, needs to be redirected. That's hilarious.
@monkfishbandana:
You forgot to tell them you'll have a video of your adventures too! :-D Maybe from a basic S40 device from Nokia (you know... the kinda ones you can get for $50) or any other phone that has a camera!
I call no Flash and no Java a HUGE improvement. In the last few months I've simply been avoiding sites that render in Flash. There are plenty of alternative sites out there. If I Google something and I hit a site that uses flash for navigation I hit the back button, and not just on my iPhone. For the rest there is Adblock Plus.
Flash is the last refuge if the incompetent Web developer. Look at Apple's web site, for example. Lots of interactive stuff, looks really good, no flash.
@Zak
Apple claimed that the iPhone has the "whole Internet".
The Acid3 test does not indicate whether a device or browser can show the whole Internet. It only provides compliance testing for SOME web technologies.
Mobile OSX's Safari obviously scores 0% on the Flash compliance test. Whether you like it or not, Flash is used through-out the Internet.
@CraigJ
you're not fooling anyone.
hey i just bought the iCar. the iLighter doesn't work and it only hs 3 iWheels but i'm told i can use the in-car system(an iPhone) to get the 4th from the online store in a few months. oh but by the way, they're redesigning the shape of the wheels so you'll have to buy all 4. and also a new iCar to fit them on.
this getting through?
This is not the first time the brit advertising standards agency has come down on Apple. They got trashed for the G5 Power Mac "world's most powerful PC" ads because, as the agency claimed, it was not the fastest computer available at all tasks under all circumstances.
As for this one? Seems like they're being awfully nitpicky. I think the iPhone browser fits the description, relative to other mobile browsers, even if you can't see flash and javascript.
@cockboy
Rich has pointed out why you're a clueless clown.
In fact, judging by your low rankings, it seems about 100% of Engadget thinks you're a total cock. Still never mind, there's always that photo of Steve for you to pleasure yourself over.
@ tpadekar
I hadn't thought of that; mind you, with all of those other really, really, really battery draining tasks going on - well, I'd better get my Nokia 6230 from 2003 to video instead.
Even my V220 had video. That's a relief! We all thought that the iPhone not having video was bad! Can you imagine if people like Motorola or Nokia started putting it on their entry-level phones? Can you imagine?
When that day comes, Apple should really start feeling embarrassed...
To the guys above me, who the hell uses Java applets in a web browser anymore? This is NOT 1996 for god sakes.
While Flash is nice, Adobe's OSX port is incredibly inefficient! It literally will cause a new macbook pro's fans to go to max RPM, while the CPU utilization will be pegged at 100%. I can only imagine if they used the desktop version on the iPhone without extensive optimization work.
Regardless, every other "smartphone" besides the iPhone that I've used to browse the web has been so deplorable, that it wouldn't matter if you had Flash or Java support! The iPhone is WAY AHEAD of every other device on the market.
Top-end Nokias have been able to view Flash for a long time, thanks to Adobe.
who the hell is "cockboy"?