We've seen iriver's
SPINN (above between the HTC Touch Dual and iPhone 3G) floating around Korea in pics and video for a few weeks now. But damn if this little 3.3-inch DAP doesn't make a distinct impression in person. Of course, you've heard the term "iPod killer" tossed around for years with obvious effect. But this, this little SPINN with brilliant OLED display and up to 16GB of storage looks to be device-for-device superior to the bigger iPod touch. The SPINN navigation is very well implemented and allows for natural and precise one-handed operation with heavy tactile control -- touchscreen too if that's your preference. Of course, making an iPod killer is about more than just the device -- it's the ecosystem of PC software, third party accessories, and daunting global distribution and retail model which faces any upstart vendor. On sale now in Korea, iriver hopes to address the latter piece of the puzzle as they prepare for a global (US, UK, and Europe) launch in September or October -- assuming they can sort out the necessary distribution / retail channels this week at IFA. Remember, it's already got
FCC's nod of approval.
posted Aug 29th 2008 4:27AM
Video is private.
I'm currently making an ass of myself in the office recreating the motions that that guy has to go through with his hands to get the scroll wheel working. The finger motions to scroll, followed by the reach-around you have to do to press the button is tough to do. Imagine doing that when you have 500+ artists to go through on your phone. Also, the guy that mentioned being left handed has a valid point: you can only use this with your right hand. Using your left hand would require you to use the side of your thumb to scroll. Again, not fun when you have a huge music library.
The design is nice, and I think iriver is onto something with changing up the UI paradigm, but this doesn't quite cut it.
since it's a touch screen hopefully they will have scrolling by abc selection like the itouch or something of the sort
if i get the touchpro and it has bad video quality I will most likely pick this up when it makes it to cally in the u.s
i and killer in the same sentence...is this from the Engadget Htrae team?
^ i[thing]
looks quite laggy on this video,
Another day, another "iPod Killer".
Apple has revolutionized the phones with the iPhone. Everyone is trying to make an "iPhone killer" which itself makes Apple think that companies are trying to get to the Apple's great standard.
And even after a year, there is no phone as good as the iPhone. I love the iPhone. :)
Bullshit. 1) this isn't even about the iPhone. 2) It's not makers that call things that but biased journalists. 3) That's complete rubbish, there are many far better devices around, depending on what you want to do. The iPhone is just a music-centric touchscreen featurephone with enhanced browsing, it's not a smartphone.
Slight correction; there were better phones than the iPhone before and after it's launch.
Jash = troll.
How exactly is the iPhone not a smartphone? "it doesn't have a keyboard" is not a valid point.
I think the spin interface is a nice touch. Classy and sort of retro at the same time. iRiver has come a long way since the days of the T10. But if I can't get subscription music this unit doesn't get added to my collection.
Is it an ipod killer or an iphone killer? You called it an ipod killer and then showed it next to two phones...
Yeah, it does appear to be a bit strange but I just figured those were all they had for size comparison at the time. It makes sense, since they're both phones and people tend to bring those with them anyway.
I think my iRiver iHP-120 has found a replacement at last.
Amen to that, I'm still using mine. It's 4.5 years old and the joystick's been resoldered on twice, but with Rockbox it still runs perfectly. But this.... this looks good.
Where is the web browser? Does it have support for apps or user generated content?
This is no ipod killer, but its pretty swanky though.
It does have flash (lite?) support, so you can play some games on it for free, though the review I read said they tried a dozen files and only got one to work. But if the platform takes off, I'm sure people will target it--though charging for their content could be a problem!
I like the true 16:9 screen and spinn control too. If my 2G iPod finally dies, at least I'll have a choice!
One thing that people seem to not pay attention to is the audio quality of the iPod. It has a great UI and web browser etc. but the audio quality is simply horrible! This is the only reason why my iPhone has completely no music on it. Plus the whole iTunes thing doesn't help either. Not many mp3 players have come even close to the quality of music that I can get out of my Iriver Clix 2 or any older models. If it's a music player, music quality should be the first thing that gets reviewed.. but I haven't seen a thing mentioned about quality in years!
this looks really nice. Well designed. When are they bringing out the phone version? I'm not seeing anything about this being a wifi device. It does seem to be a better PMP than the touch, but the touch is a PMP/PIM device. Having said that, the UI work to get this device to work well with one handed operation is very very nice and whoever did it certainly deserves kudos.
That's a very positive SPINN!
I see what you did there!
What?!?! The iPod is almost never cheaper then it's competitors, the only good value ipod in the entire range is the 80/160gb classic. It does have the biggest back catalog but the players themselves are NOT value for money. I can buy a Cowon D2 4GB for £100, which is a premium product with some of the best sound quality around, an SD card slot, a big touchscreen that looks great and is easy to use, an fm radio, drag n drop flash games, a calculator, a picture/text reader and more. For the same money an iPod nano is slightly smaller but offers a smaller screen, lower capacity, average sound quality, no fm radio and a battery that lasts half as long as the Cowon.
And if you just want a 4GB player you can get 1 from iRiver or Sansa or even archos for around £60. Walk into a shop and look at the mp3 players, more then likely there will be a huge iPod display and there might be a few boxes of other bad mp3 players sitting beside the display. The iPod is not value for money if you shop around for even 1 minute. They got on top because they beat the competition, they've stayed there because they actually have a marketing campaign unlike almost every other player on the market, and because of over zealous brand loyalty.
bah clicked wrong reply button :P
It looks awesome, but the reason why no one has touched the iKingdom is largely due to marketing. Apple markets the hell out of their products (and does so very well), whereas most competitors don't. There are and have been lots of PMPs that are better than iPods, but the distributors just launch them, put out a couple of print ads and let the devices sit on the shelves... so no one knows about them or buys them.
In terms of marketing, I'd say Zune is the only device that is starting to rival iPods in marketing, though they obviously have the cash cow of Microsoft behind them. (And I'm not bringing up a Zune vs. iPod comparison to start a fan war; I'm just making a point about marketing.) Zunes obviously need far more marketing, but at least I've seen LOTS of print ads and television spots about them. And what has that gotten Zune? Well, they recently out-sold Creative's PMPs (which are released worldwide), despite Zunes only being available in the U.S. at the time.
I'm shocked that companies that make incredible devices, such as iRiver, don't take this to heart. Maybe they're not really that interested in the U.S. market or maybe they just don't have the money to market their products. Regardless, it's a shame that the SPINN looks so awesome, yet a year after it's been released stateside, I guarantee most of my "non-techie" friends won't have heard of it (even the ones that don't own PMPs yet); and I bet I'll have a wicked tough time locating one to play with :(
very very well stated. I would have posted basically the same thing if you hadn't beat me to it. +1
The success could be of course for the great quality, ease of use, ui, software and infrastructure.
And no matter which iPod, or iPhone you buy: they all work the same. they all work with iTunes, and iTunes, as the whole iLife software does, provides it's contents to all other media devices and software in the Apple infrastructur.
The new iRiver might be nice, has a nive spec sheet:
But despite you talking about the all mighty power of the Apple marketing it is much simpler:
nobody has ever provided such an easy to to use player and well working and, again, easy to use infrastructure.
Beating the iPod / iPhone is not only building good hardware, but it's also matching that.
And it's not enough to be as good, or nearly as good: you have to be better than the iPod + infrastructure.
That means you must be better than iTunes, as well. Nobody is.
Now don't start the freedom of choice stuff.
iTunes is great and Apple doesn't lock you in.
And buying from iTunes is not a disadvantage, but because of it's great implemantation and ease it is good for the casual user.
I gladly pay to Apple for the comfort.
TMM, maybe some companies don't rival the compatibility of itunes and such, but the fact remains that iTunes as a media player is a pretty bad piece of software, it's bloated, slow and even though the store is a nice touch the fact is that it doesn't get by because it's the best it's a distinctly average piece of software that gets by because it's packaged in.
Also loads of players match the ease of use, the iRiver Clix 2, the Cowon D2 are both incredibly simple to use even without a media player on your computer. Apple mp3 players are average, OK sound quality and easy to use. But there's so much out there that easily beats the Ipods sound quality and ease of use for less money then an iPod. iPod's may have gotten on top because they were a good product but they've been overtaken countless times and remain on top only because of brand loyalty and an advertising campaign that 95%+ of other mp3 players lack.
It COULD be marketing but more sensibly it is that the iPod is simply the more compelling product. It is often the same or cheaper than its competitors yet it has: the biggest and best online store, a diverse range of accessories, is supported in 75+ car types, better industrial design, far superior integration between store, software and player and for iPod Touch customers a better interface, unmatched feature set and the ability to run your own applications.
I mean I love this new device but until a company actually puts its nuts on the table and commits to a product I'm not switching. And by commitment I mean lots of accessories, working with car companies, better software integration and a built in store.
@TMM
I totally disagree, I own an iPod but I consider iTunes to be the single worst aspect of being an iPod user. As PMP management software, it's horrible. The software is designed from the ground up to manage a music collection on your computer, iPod syncing is just a feature added on top of that. I don't want the music on my computer to be managed. I do not use iTunes to play music on my computer. Being forced to import everything into iTunes before it can be on my iPod is a huge pain, it vastly overcomplicates the process of loading music.
I can get music onto my phone, which has all the same features as the iPod, by doing some simple Windows drag-and-drop. It's totally simple and it "just works." iPod's lack of support for this feature which has been largely standard on graphical operating systems for 20 years just makes it unnecessarily complicated.
What?!?! The iPod is almost never cheaper then it's competitors, the only good value ipod in the entire range is the 80/160gb classic. It does have the biggest back catalog but the players themselves are NOT value for money. I can buy a Cowon D2 4GB for £100, which is a premium product with some of the best sound quality around, an SD card slot, a big touchscreen that looks great and is easy to use, an fm radio, drag n drop flash games, a calculator, a picture/text reader and more. For the same money an iPod nano is slightly smaller but offers a smaller screen, lower capacity, average sound quality, no fm radio and a battery that lasts half as long as the Cowon.
And if you just want a 4GB player you can get 1 from iRiver or Sansa or even archos for around £60. Walk into a shop and look at the mp3 players, more then likely there will be a huge iPod display and there might be a few boxes of other bad mp3 players sitting beside the display. The iPod is not value for money if you shop around for even 1 minute. They got on top because they beat the competition, they've stayed there because they actually have a marketing campaign unlike almost every other player on the market, and because of over zealous brand loyalty.
First, iTunes sucks big style. I mean it is awful. So you have 20 tracks you want to rename? Well you better get comfortable with that mouse, because you can't just [Tab] between fields/files (although this may have changed, I haven't used iTunes for a few years because, guess what, WMP let me do that at the time). Personally, for media playback on the PC I use JetAudio, because I can just right-click on ANY folder and play all the media files in it instantly. Plus it has a handy translucent bar at the top that tells me the next track when it changes assuming I'm not using a full-screen program that hasn't been set to windowed mode.
Second, iPods are not cheap. For example, last Christmas I wanted to buy my girlfriend a new PMP to replace her ageing Sony. I looked at the Apple range, and for £100 I could buy the shuffle. So I bought her the new Sony, which had 8Gb of flash, video playback, and greater codec support. For the same price. And about the same size as a nano. With a bigger screen. Personally I have a first-gen iRiver Clix for when I'm just going out for a short while, or an Archos 605 WiFi for when I'll be gone for a long period. Both have better functionality than their respective iPod. And cost less. With bigger screens.
Half of the accessories are cases (if they weren't so scratchable you wouldn't need a case), then the iPod needs half of the rest to provide the functionality that all the other DAPs have built in (e.g FM radio) or speaker docks that practically nobody gets. Then you finally get to the useful accessories of which are a small portion of the full accessory range.
Nathan,
Maybe it's just me, but arguing that the iPod is superior based on the vast support network built around it and the fact that the user experience is consistent is kindof flawed. In fact, those happen to be the two biggest reasons that Windows is still the most widely used operating system in the world...
Marketing made the iPod big, the accessories and software followed. Same reason that Justin Timberlake is bigger than that wicked indie band that plays to 50 people on a tuesday night in your local club.
huh? why was I low ranked for agreeing with the man? Also, I don't see how people can honestly make the argument that the iPod isn't currently in its dominating position because of marketing (or lack thereof by its competitors).
TMM... quality? Yikes! I work at a store that sells iPod's, and I get to spend some time in the returns area (I hate it... but sometimes I have to do it). I see SOOOoooooooooo many iPods coming back... tons and tons of them. Lock ups, batteries that don't hold a charge after a week of use. It is probably one of the most commonly returned electronic items we sell (granted too we sell a lot... so I'm sure there are still some percentages to play with).
I personally owned one a few years back (a 30G model), and mine wouldn't hold much of a charge, and the thing would lock up if I broke into a any sort of a bouncing brisk jog/walk... all in all it was the worst quality machine I'd ever bought.
Looks and ease of use... yes... quality construction... no WAY.
I've had a Creative Zen Touch ever since I ditched the iPod (many many years ago now).... the thing still can hold a 24 hour playback charge... has never locked up from bouncing... I've had a Rio Chiba 256MB thats been solid, and I now own a Samsung P2 (love the P2)... all solid with no problems.
Apple would have to bring out something pretty ground breaking for me to switch to one of their products... I'm a little more substance over flash in my choices.
I skipped almost all the replies, so forgive me if someone else already noted this, but:
Anyone who honestly believes the iPod is dominant in the market primarily because of marketing is either being obtuse or is incredibly naive.
Marketing helped it get off the ground, as can goose sales a bit, as good marketing always should. But trying to reduce the success of a product down to marketing is incredibly insulting to the designers, programmers, UI experts, infrastructure engineers, and literally hundreds of other people who worked their asses off making the #1 product.
It's not all due to marketing just because you *think* it is. - and just because a company has decent marketing doesn't necessarily mean it has even had a significant impact on sales, or that it works at all.
Saying that Apple's iPod is dominant primarily because of marketing is the same as doing that for ANY other product:
- MS Window's dominance is primarily due to marketing. (Let's just ignore the whole history of the product.)
- Toyota's market dominance is primarily due to marketing. (It has nothing to do with quality of product, reputation of reliability, or knowing how to effectively and competitively price their products)
- AT&T is the largest carrier in the US primarily due to marketing (it's not that #3 bought #2 or anything.)
- USB is more common than Firewire, primarily due to marketing.
...see how just saying it doesn't make it so?
TMM, Nathan and Jeff:
I think you may be reading only on the surface of what I said. Never did I say that the iPod is a success ONLY due to marketing (although the fact that it is marketed as the "cool" device certainly helps). What I said in the very first sentence is that other devices - that are equally as good, if not better - are not as successful because they DON'T market their products. This is a wag of the finger to Creative, iRiver, etc... not Apple.
The iPod may have come to dominance because of its UI, ease-of-use and integration with iTunes, however, users wouldn't have known about such tight integration unless the marketing team informed the public of those aspects in the first place. through great marketing.
Other players have UIs that are just as nice and are easier to use, but they don't tell the average consumer about it, so the average consumer skips past their devices.
maybe it should be called iKiller.
UK is Europe too, you know? ;-)
What a shiny surface - probably completly unusable in the summer - also with the thin white font on black.
I bought my IPod-Killer 3 years ago. A 20gb (now upgraded to 30gb) Gmini400: Supports real avi-mpeg4 (then just the photo-version of the ipod arrived), ordinary mass-storage and builds the media-libary on the device without the need of something like itunes. Not to forget the CF-Slot for Picture-Transfer for Digital Cameras. Very usefull back then...
I bought my iPod killer four years ago - rio Karma
want!
...MOAR PIX!
I'm left handed, this would be utterly pointless
You'd just have to hold it a little different. I don't think it would make it much harder to use, actually.
I fail to understand why you wouldnt be able to use this with your left hand...
What are you doing with your right hand? ;-P
Those who are questioning is obviously not left handed. Its not that hard to figure out considering the alignment of buttons is on ONE SIDE.
the first true ipod killer? so, a radio and tactile controls do that? in that case the creative zen was an ipod touch killer several years ago. huh, i would have thought it would take more than that. smaller screen, lower capacity, no browser, clearly no graphics acceleration from what we were seeing, no keyboard, no mention of multitouch. they only thing that could possibly make it an ipod killer in my speculation is if it were $10. does engadget just get excited when its "their" story maybe?
Well, having now watched the video I can't quite see how this can be an iPod Touch killer. I mean, the addition of the scroller and click action surely makes it slower to use than the iPod Touch where you can just press the icon that you want on the screen rather than having to scroll through the options. Am I missing something here?
I think the real iPod killer is the Cowon Q5W. Now THAT is a truly awesome piece of technology.
I think we need to wait until whatever announcement Apple is due to make in September has happened. Seems rather silly to proclaim this device as an iPod Touch-killer if the Touch is going to be overhauled in a few days time.
Let's be honest, even if this device is superior to the iPod Touch after the September announcement then it's still unlikely to "kill the iPod". It will take much than a single device to do that and many years, although at least it would be a start.
Put another way, if the SPINN does kill the iPod Touch and the new iPod Touch announced in September is better then perhaps the Touch should be renamed to the iPod Lazarus.
Without True Multi-Touch like the iPhone, all 'iPhone Killers' are just Palm M105s without a stylus. I don't care how much spin you put on it.
Hehehe, I made an O'Reily reference and a funny all at the same time... I kill me.
So multi-touch is now the most important feature of phone?
Here, in CIS, particularly in Russia, iriver (forget about "iRiver" at least!) still has lots of fans. But, of course, that iMania does let know about itself. Nevertheless, I think that SPINN has all chances to become popular product.
Why are Apple and Microsoft the only companies out there making new high-capacity players? It seems like every other day on Engadget I see a new PMP that looks seriously cool, then it's followed up by "this 4gb player" or "up to 16gb of storage" which just makes it absolutely worthless to me. Is there really so little demand for large capacity in a portable device?
Probably because most people are comfortable with 8 or 16 gig of music on their players at a time, and flash is safer than a hard drive. Think about it this way: if you sold mp3 players, would you rather offer a 1- , 2-, or 3- year warranty on a portable device with a very delicate hard drive inside? I've personally lost two players to hard drive failure (one ipod, one zen micro) and after that, i accepted that mid-capacity flash was the way to go...even if i can't carry all my music on it.
You're kidding... of all the devices you pick one with mechanical controls? How very steam-punk. (Gimme touch-screen any day).
If you'd RTFA, you'd know that it HAS a touchscreen.
But nevermind, I know it's challenging...
Did you actually read the article?
So it has touch-screen. Then why the Scroll-Wheel? Gimmicky... silly... not worthy of the term "iPod Killer". Sorry.
I don't care about iPod-killers and getting sick of hearing the term. Yes, I am a happy Zune 80 owner, but really, I don't every want to see a competitor's product die. I want to see products competing, I want to see innovation, I want to see something come somewhere close to market parity with the iPod because I think that is best for innovation and the market, I want to see small upstarts continually seeking to put the smack down on the iPOD. AGAIN, I AM TIRED OF ALL THIS iPOD KILLER TALK!
The menu looks like it could have been handled under DOS. Couldn't they have at least given us some pretty icons representing the different functions? Positively boring!
It looks to be an awesome player, and quite sexy to boot. It will please a lot of iRiver users, and perhaps draw in more people to their brand. However, it cannot, by definition, be an iPod "killer" (what a stupid moniker, anyway -- like someone said above, it's gotten tiring) unless it addresses the iPod's strengths -- which are the reasons people buy them -- and better them. The SPINN fails to do so in the following areas:
(1) Screen size
(2) Multi-touch (I'm assuming)
(3) Integration with iCal/Address Book/Entourage, iTunes and iTunes Music Store (one of the most important)
(4) E-mail and web browsing (WiFi)
(5) Price -- pretty much the same as the iPod (touch) GB for GB
There are those geek-pleasing factors, which are intriguing; WMV, Xvid, OGG, FLAC and APE support, OLED. But then, stupid shortcomings like no AAC (WTF?). When you have CNET say things like "We'd love to see the Spinn with the Clix's D-Click system instead of the wheel" you know that the wheel, while perhaps novel, is little more than a gimmick. And finally, the single thing that really makes the iPod stand out now is
(6) The App Store
Unless you can top that, you can't "kill" the iPod.
And don't call me no fanboy; I don't even own an iPod touch (still chugging along with my 3rd Gen iPod 40GB).
nothing can kill the ipod interface...it's what makes it better. so really there is no ipod killer. windows mobile sucks bawls and this one seems like dookie too. if we could toss the iphone os with jailbreak on that bitch then we can talk business, or even on the ericsson x1.
hi, my name is spinn and i am not a phone
That is a BRILLIANT navigation scroll wheel. I mean seeing ideas like that makes me wonder why many respected companies are throwing away their brains in favor for a "touchscreen only a la Apple" PMP. This is proof that thinking outside the Apple box could actually generate a lot better ideas....
When you think of it, operating an iPhone/iPod with only one hand is really NOT comfortable. BRAVO iRiver...oh hold on.
Awkward looking one-handed operation. I'm guessing it requires a stylus for the touchscreen operation. Apple hit a home run with the click-wheel.
I'm guessing your not very smart.
It's a decent player. There's no need to tar it with the ipod killer label.
There really isn't any point in making an "iPod Killer" anymore, as the whole dedicated MP3 player market is already starting it's inevitable decline.
Seriously... why would most people want to buy a separate portable device just to play music and movies when most new cell phones now have that capability built in? The smaller flash based players are already useless if you have something like an iPhone, and the larger hard drive based players are in danger as well as cell phone storage capacity increases. I know that I've already retired my old iPod Photo and my Zune when I got my new phone, and I'll imagine that many other people will as well.
iRiver should really make their next "killer" product an iPhone killer or Samsung Instinct killer if they want to stay in business.
"Seriously... why would most people want to buy a separate portable device just to play music and movies when most new cell phones now have that capability built in?"
One word my friend: batteries. In the world of iPod/iPhone where you can't replace your batteries, you hold onto your charge like it's your last will to live.
"Seriously... why would most people want to buy a separate portable device just to play music and movies when most new cell phones now have that capability built in?"
In addition to battery life above, how about sound quality?
As mentioned earlier, is nobody actually interested in how their audio sounds any more? Given the dominance of the iPod I can only assume this is the case.
They should call it the iBox since that thing is so boxy. Are these guys afraid of curves? The boxy look is so 1980s. Get with the times, iriver. Somebody's gonna get hurt on all of those pointy edges.
So.... making an iPod killer is more than just making the device. Granted. But iRiver has not demonstrated any of the other ecosystem stuff, so I would hold off on the claims of iPod killer. The Zune is the only device I've seen with PC interface software that comes close (actually better than) iTunes.
Where's the 160Gb version? Why doesn't anyone produce a 160Gb Classic competitor?
"Of course, making an iPod killer is about more than just the device -- it's the ecosystem of PC software, third party accessories, and daunting global distribution and retail model which faces any upstart vendor."
No it's not. If a device is better than another, it is because it is. Not because of how the company can handle international distribution etc. You just gave them a compliment and then said "But none of this really matters since they are only a small startup company." I agree with the part about software interaction with your computer (Apple's isn't very good), but not the rest of that BS.
By your logic, nobody would ever likely produce an iPod/iPhone killer because Apple dominates making their products popular, not necassarily making them better. In this sense, if the Sprint Instinct sold more than iPhone, you'd say it was an iPhone killer, when it's clearly not.
In what way does this rival an ipod touch? ipod classic? This doesn't seem to rival either. It does about the same things as ipod classic but with better form factor and WAY less memory. It does WAY less than the ipod touch (like email, apps, im, internet browsing), but has the same form factor and memory. I don't get it. How is this better? Don't just make claims, give us examples!
This is hardly an "iPod Killer" when this misses one key spec that the Touch has, WiFi and a full html browser. I hate when "iPod Killer" is thrown around when a device in the same form factor is introduced but lacks something major as WiFi and the browser, throw in third party apps as well.
Just purchased an 8gb spinn for incheon airport in korea and I have to say this is a very sweet player. I have held back buying another player since my ipod died a year ago and was about to purchase the 120 gb zune when it came out. Other than capacity which is very small this is a great device.
Sexy, intuitive, with a great screen. I am playing around with it at the moment and I really hope that more people take a serious look at this device.
how does one change from landscape to portrait views?
Yeah, that's WAY better than just flicking and selecting with your finger. NOT!
Epic fail and the reviewer is a tool.
The ipod has been killed a hundred times over as a media player. Let's face it, it's one of the worst dedicated media players around. Let's think, for a minute, about the many ways its is exceed by *virtually every other player on the market*:
1) No hard drive mode (at least not for the touch). You are forced to use itunes to sync your music. Itunes is one of the biggest/worst pieces of bloatware in software history. It's god awful.
2) Movies require transcoding -- adding insult to injury, Apple does not supply the software to do this. Either but your content from itunes, or suck a lemon. In short, Apples players support fewer codecs than anyone else out there. Same thing goes for music.
3) The Touch lacks any sort of tactile feedback. Operating it while driving/jogging/etc is nearly impossible or, at minimum, unsafe. You have to look at the damn thing to do anything with it.
4) Expensive. You get players that beat Any apple player, feature for feature, for half the price or less.
5) No FM tuners -- a feature virtually every other player in the world has.
In short, Apple makes TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE media players. Ipods are just plain bad at being media players.
But you know what? They are masters are marketing and branding. Your grandmother will buy an ipod because she doesn't know an MP3 from a Potato but she's heard of an ipod. Trendy douchebags will buy an ipod because it's the most expensive player out there and it because they think it'll make them cool.
And, on top of that, the ipod touch, while being a bad media player, is a god-damned *amazing* internet device and a very good PDA. Throw in the App Store and you've got yourself a fine product, actually worth its high cost.
But is it a good media player? No. It's not. If you just want something to watch movies or listen to music with -- and nothing else, you'd be stupid to buy an Ipod (especially an Ipod Touch).
Nice manicure.
not an ipod killer, not a zune killer, just a gimmicky pmp. you spin me right round baby right round