CERN's LHC 'First Beam' to be broadcast live on Wednesday
By Thomas Ricker 
posted September 8th 2008 7:54AM
posted September 8th 2008 7:54AM
[Thanks, Rui]
Read -- Webcast starting Wed, Sep10 at 09:00 CEST (calculated globally)
Read -- Satellite broadcast
you guys keep saying nothign like this has ever taken place..... how do you know whats going to happen... a screw could go loss and blow the hole 17 mile long thing up and there goes swiss-french border ...... and i mean you cant be 100% sure it wouldn't create tiny black holes ... no one knows but i am for it .... plus no one knows what is on the other side of a black hole ....
lets party like theres no tommorrow ... and if you wake up alive call off work because you have to big of a hang over :]
learn your physics there is no other side to a black hole
I'd be more worried about the accelerator being unknowingly powered up enough to remove us from the metastable vaccumm we are currently theoretically in and tearing us all to oblivious shreads.
There are only two absolutes in life...Death and Taxes. Everything else is theory. See you all on the other side come October.
/Sarcasm
It's the final countdown....
All I know is that I'm buying a shiny new crowbar tuesday night.
As long as they don't bring back the Event Horizon I'm completely cool with it.
i cant believe it. you actually went there -_-
i cant believe it. you actually went there -_-
Not that you needed any more evidence than the lawsuit against the LHC itself but here are a couple of links associated with the guy filing it (the "expert" that is often quoted and is one of the lead plaintiffs). You can decide for yourself whether his credibility is affected (as noted, the lawsuit itself would be enough for most to write him off).
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20069143,00.html
and still going on 32 years later.
http://donnabader.com/?p=20
i am a freshman in college and from my learnings what would come out of the LHC won't be that bad
what i learned about black holes isnt much and what i am about to say is probably wrong but how else will i learn
essentially a black hole is the opposite of a star. a star is a large condensed mass of many different kinds of energy (matter light etc.)
where as a black hole is a condensed absence of all kinds of energy which is why a supernova many times results in a black hole. its not really a hole but more like an orb that needs to be filled since a large amount of energy was released from that place the missing energy in that void needs to be filled back in but since a star has a large amount of all forms of energy the void needs to fill in most of that missing energy to stop. so the more amount of energy that is released the more void that has to be filled since the LHC is only colliding two particles at a time there wont be very much energy needs to reconcile the void
sorry if i was repetitive this was a difficult thought proccess
You're obviously not a freshman in a physics degree, sorry.
All objects with mass have a gravitational field. The Earth is a good example. The higher the mass, the stronger the gravity. The further you are from the centre of mass (also called the centre of gravity, for a symetrical object like a sphere it's right in the middle) the weaker gravity gets. It gets weaker quite quickly (by the square of the distance). In this way, while Earth is far, far lighter than an object like Saturn, we have a higher surface gravity because we are much closer to the centre of the Earth.
On Earth, if you throw an object up at about seven miles per second, it will just about escape our gravity and head into space. This is called the "escape velocity".
If an object gets more dense - i.e. has a lot of mass in a small area - then the escape velocity from it's surface goes up. If you really, really crush matter to an almost impossibly dense situation, then the escape velocity can go over 186,000 ish miles per second - which is the speed of light. Light is then too slow to escape from the object, so you can't see it - it looks like a "black hole" in space.
In essence, a black hole is basically just a super-dense object. However, once Einstein's work gets thrown in, then all kinds of other wierd effects in slowing time, rotating space and so on come in. Add in some wierd quantum mechanics effects and you get things like Hawking Radiation, where small black holes effectively dissolve faster than big ones.
Energy is always conserved, this means that if the LHC were to create a super-tiny dense mass of particles that could form a black hole, then that black hole can't have any more energy/mass than the energy pumped into the LHC allows. Any black hole created will be incedibly tiny, lighter than the smallest piece of dust. If you're any distance away form it at all - like, say, a thousandth of a millimeter - the you'll feel no more effect from it than you would from that piece of dust. Only if you stray within the tiny area around it where escape velocity is gretaer than that of light would you get "sucked in" - and the gap between the atoms in your body is large compared to that size. Basically, a black hole of this scale could pass straight through your body without you even noticing, though it probably woouldn't last long enough to get out of the test chamber.
Also, remember that space is full of particles at far higher energies than the LHC could ever produce, and that they bombard our planet constantly. If we could build several hundred tons of detector at the edge of the atmosphere it would probably be much better that the LHC! If one of those massively powerful particles hasn't destroyed our planet yet, then I can't see any way the LHC could.
For thos who argue "You can never completely know" and "you can't be totally 100% sure" then I have to say, well, yes - but you can't be sure that the next song composed or painting painted might not produce the exact emotional factors that cause everyone who hears it or sees it to kill themselves and anyone they know. Maybe the next speech made will have the exact resonant frequency in the syllables to break down the walls to some part of space-time scientists have never even imagined and end the universe. Doesn't seem likely, though, and I don't suggest we all stop talking. The probability of the LHC causing the end of the world is about the same as the probability of the next Tom Jones song producing such a strange reaction in the brain as to produce mass involntary murder/suicides. Effectively none.
Ok while you guys and gals (hopefully, cause intellectual women are so sexy) are stewing over this probable situation that may destroy the whole world or in the very least Europe. I will be planning my day as usual. Remember it was these same scientists and media that had us stocking up our pantries and bomb shelters for a Y2k doomsday that never was. So unless I am wrong, it will be business as usual. Mass Effect at 12am, kids at school at 7am and work the rest. Maybe if it does happen I can get some much needed rest.
Gordon Freeman save us...all
Anybody else feeling the scientific excitement?
The last 10 years have been great for mankind (save for the American wars). We've just charted DNA and now we're trying to make sense of the data. Now we're getting an opportunity to study exotic particles - actually conduct experiments on what used to be strictly theoretical physics. We're applying Moore's law on our own scientific knowledge. Man, I really wish I lived 500 years just to see the richness these first few steps lead us to. Gotta figure out a way to download my consciousness into more sustainable hardware ...
BTW, for the ongoing religious discussion. Religion as we see it in todays form is primarily designed to keep a larger human population under civic and moral control.
@ Aaron Wanker
" I do believe in the Big Bang, but that first really dense piece of matter, had to come from somewhere."
are you serious? God and the tooth fairy; give me one shred of evidence for either! ffs man come on... it's impossible for a minuscule piece of matter to come from nothing but an all knowing creator can at a whim throw together everything?
CERN is a great move forward for mankind, God and religion in all it's forms are the one thing holding us back, if we could get rid of religion we would be free as a race to move on and shake off the shackles of the past... roll on Wednesday, if anything gets sucked into a Black Hole I hope it's bibles, bible bashers, and anything religious in any and all contexts
And I was so waiting for the new SOCOM to come out so that i could play with my clan and kick some ass.. Now this may not happen because of the BLACK HOLE? come on, these scientists will end our lives one day prematurely...
Did I hear someone say Cosmic Rays? I call Fantastic Four.
Once again, I see the same dumb argument by scientists in favor of the LHC, and that is that these particle collisions occur in nature everyday. That is far from the truth.
The collisions that occur in nature that the CERN scientists use in defense of their project are based on particles hitting stationary objects at almost the speed of light. Such as x-rays and gamma rays colliding with Earth's atmosphere.
The difference with the collisions that they are attempting at LHC, is two particles will be traveling from opposite directions directly toward each other, with each of them traveling at almost the speed of light. This in effect, is the same as creating a collision of a particle with a stationary object at almost TWICE the speed of light. This DOES NOT occur naturally in the cosmos.
It was once theorized that matter itself was incapable of a velocity faster than the speed of light based on Einstein's equations. Einstein theorized that matter traveling faster than the speed of light would not collide at all, that the two sources of matter would pass right through one another. But Einstein did not have any theories as to what interaction would take place when those two objects of matter passed through one another at above light speed.
Sure, chances are that the Earth, or the universe, will not be gobbled up into a man-made stationary black hole. But they have all stated that it is a possibility however unlikely.
We have reached a 'zero error' point in our sciences, and pursuing the discoveries at CERN that these scientist seek to find is far beyond the 'zero error' scenario, and any errors at this level may be humanity's last.
For more on this subject an an accompanying artwork, please see my article at...
Be Afraid...
http://www.redbubble.com/people/grouchyolhippie/journal/1603909-be-afraid
Hippy, was that LSD you were on when you wrote all that BS?
What excites me the most about Hadron is the possibility that it could be a portal for 'branes' - elsewhere Universes.
It won't be running on full power for at least another year or two. Only then will the greatest show 'off' Earth kick off.
Great changes are ahead folks. Just be prepared is all I have to say.
Regards
Sol
To everybody: Educate yourselves on the Everett-Wheeler many worlds interpretation and quantum immortality. The LHC cannot hurt us.
Ok ok, if we jump back into time I'm soo making out with jennifer at the park, "I love you jennifer!" and if jump forward I'm getting that microwave that makes my meals cause I cant cook worth a lick
@ Grouchy Old Hippy
"The difference with the collisions that they are attempting at LHC, is two particles will be traveling from opposite directions directly toward each other, with each of them traveling at almost the speed of light. This in effect, is the same as creating a collision of a particle with a stationary object at almost TWICE the speed of light. This DOES NOT occur naturally in the cosmos."
If you had taken ANY sort of physics class you would have learned that it is impossible for matter to travel faster than the speed of light. You would have also learned that light travels at the same speed (c) to all observers, no matter their velocity, acceleration, etc. So just because I'm driving along at 100m/s and decide to shoot my fancy laser pointer out the window, the light coming out of the laser pointer isn't going at c+100m/s.
Reading your article... it seems like particle accelerators are something completely new to you. Surprise, scientists have been using them for decades to study quantum physics. This one just happens to be a bit more powerful. You strike me as the type of person that picks the flavor article of the month and rants banalities with a child's level of education.
I'm not even going to dignify your comment about earth being gobbled up by a man-made black hole. Here's a little mental exercise for you: If the moon were replaced with a blackhole of the same mass as the moon, what would happen to the earth? (disregarding any new potential radiation)
you've got me don, what would happen? obviously disregarding any new radiation!
i'm guessing the tides may be disrupted, bats may be confused for a while and Sting may need to re think some lirics but i get the feeling this isn't what you have in mind.
Not going to claim that I know better than The Discovery Channel. I just don't have the time or interest. I was just curious about the laser pointer while driving a car thing. Do you mean that two cars colliding & a car rearending annother car produces the same result? Don't be so grumpy. Not everyone thought every class was equally fascinating.
riddle me this...if a large hadron collider explodes on a small remote planet on the rim of a galaxy can you
hear the people scream or is it just another unexxplained gamma ray burst?
Large Hardon Collider - a different black hole
@Chico: Zeitgeist? You mean that conspiracy movie that also claims that 9/11 was some type of inside job and that the Federal Reserve Bank was somehow behind every war that the United States was involved in just to "sustain conflict"? Your actually suggesting that hack of a film as something to be viewed as a legitimate source of information? Really? Reeeaaallly?
Do I need to break out your tinfoil hat for you? You seem to be teetering on the edge of insanity.
j_g_puff
is a legend.
has to be said.
:-)
to be honest, who would create a machine that would kill theirselves, everyone else AND destroy the planet?
that's a bit, stupid?
they wouldn't have permission to do it otherwise.. :S
people say that the world is gonna end near enough every fricken year.
i don't know why everyone is making so much fuss over it now..
i'm just glad i'm gonna be done with physics this semester...future textbooks will be a b*@#)# if they decide to add on anything they discover...
Tommorow is just a single beam firing so no collisions will happen. And according to cerns schedule the beam wont finish circuit for weeks meaning the aren't sending the beam very fast
expensive toy
@ ME
You Said.
Quote-[THE best example show this are cosmic rays. These are extremely high energy particles that come from outer space. Their energy exceeds that of particles used in the LHC many times. So, when these cosmic rays enter our atmosphere they will collide with atoms in the air and form new particles that will decay into other particles ect... ]
I think some cosmic rays collided with atoms in your head and decayed your brain.
Even the physicists admit that they do not know what will happen, or what will be created, so for you to theorise, is just plain dumb.
However not as dumb as people who conduct experiments that could have serious consequences such as the LHC.
There is already a precident for the creation of black holes->http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4357613.stm, although black holes are not the only conceivable problem that could occur, then there are problems that could occur that are entirely inconceivable
I sucked ass at Physics..
At higher.
So I have NO idea what's going on.
What happens if two of those microscopic balck holes form at the same time? Do they absorb each other? Is that possible? Will one eat the other?
Gah -.-' I want to understand..
They are not colliding particles on the 10th!!! They are just turning it on and calibrating all of the magnets....they will not be colliding protons for at least another month!
petercharters, you said
Quote-> For thos who argue "You can never completely know" and "you can't be totally 100% sure" then I have to say, well, yes - but you can't be sure that the next song composed or painting painted might not produce the exact emotional factors that cause everyone who hears it or sees it to kill themselves and anyone they know. Maybe the next speech made will have the exact resonant frequency in the syllables to break down the walls to some part of space-time scientists have never even imagined and end the universe. Doesn't seem likely, though, and I don't suggest we all stop talking. The probability of the LHC causing the end of the world is about the same as the probability of the next Tom Jones song producing such a strange reaction in the brain as to produce mass involntary murder/suicides. Effectively none. End Quote.
What do you base this comparison on exactly ?
Are you really comparing what will happen at the LHC with a song or a painting ?
You will have to do better than that to convince me.
I'm afraid you may have destroyed your own credibility.
How sad !
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (jk please don't atack me I just had to do it but just in case I'm gonna do all the things I want to do before I die between now and tomorrow better go waste my life savings) (again jk take a joke)
KEWL... Looks like those of us here on the U.S. West Coast will get a few extra seconds to watch the "suckage"
damn... it didn't embed the vid... well here, let's try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzugu39pKM&eurl=http://www.viralvideochart.com/youtube/the_cern_black_hole?id=BXzugu39pKM
I disagree, it'll look more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiSkyEyBczU
Awww crap.... the embeded video didn't work... oh well.. let's give this a try:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzugu39pKM&eurl=http://www.viralvideochart.com/youtube/the_cern_black_hole?id=BXzugu39pKM
i am waiting that black hole creates and they do some action its definatiely interesting
Its like this my dick will go to some hoes asshole like a black hole. HAHAHAHAHHA.
I'm a student at the University of Chicago and I ride my bike past the site of the first controlled nuclear reaction every day. I have to think back to that experiment and recall the fact that many scientists were worried that the nuclear reaction would destroy the world. In fact, some scientists did not want to drop the first atom bomb (Einstein included) because they were worried that there was a chance the explosion would be so big that it would kill everything on the planet, or start a chain reaction that would result in the Earth becoming another asteroid belt. Turns out, they were wrong. It took us a couple more years to be able to do that.
I also did an experiment in grade school where I calculated the speed at which one would have to throw an apple at the ground in order to blow up the entire world. That speed greatly exceeded the speed of light, and it was a whole apple. In short, you'll need to be shooting these particles much faster than the LDS thing can send them. Until then, no worries.
Oh, and the probability that this thing will make black holes is just about 100%. But the chance that any one of those black holes survives is just about 0%. Unless a neutrino hit one and it bumped in mass enough to swallow a neighboring black hole and then those two together got nuclear juice poured on them ninja tutle style and then they both starting kicking some shredder tail and the next thing you know no one wakes up.
I'm guessing we're all going to die. And my particle psychics education comes from some 1980's 1-900 psychic hotlines and an old 1968 National Geographic I found in the attic. So trust me, we're all dead.
anyone had noticed that John TITOR mentioned this event in his "chronicles"?
Concerning religion, Carlin said it best:
"When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in *awe* of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But he loves you. He loves you, and he needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!"
I'm curious to know why anti religous people are being so passionate to "convert". I haven't seen a single preacher yet singing his sermon, only a bunch of people talking about death & partying. Are all these atheist's by any chance part time fascist anti-smoker's too?
Seriously people, why are you arguing these points among each other. I am not saying that I believe the world could be destroyed by these "black holes" created by the lhe but come on. You people argue what would happen and how they would react or dissipate within a specified time frame. Don't pretend to know what hasn't even been discovered yet. Black holes are still a theory, as is a lot of particle physics so answers to how they would react is merely a guess. Don't confuse ability to guess with intelligence. There is nothing wrong with hypothisizing the final results of these tests and possible problems but do not portray yourselves as truly knowledgeable gurus of the profession when your not.
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