Next version of Windows Home Server promises Time Machine-like UI
By Donald Melanson 
posted Sep 8th 2008 11:43AM
posted Sep 8th 2008 11:43AM
As we've seen, Microsoft's job postings can often be one of the best places to get early word of potential new products, and it looks like the company's recruiters have done it again, with a new ad offering a glimpse of what might be in store for the next version of Windows Home Server. Most interestingly, the posting includes the little tidbit that Microsoft is looking for someone to help it create a "Time Machine compete UI for backup and restore," as well as a Windows Media Center integration UI, and a Live Mesh integration UI. According to Microsoft, that will help it position Home Server as "THE backup and Media Server within the home" by the time this next release rolls around which, considering that they're still looking for people to help build it, likely won't be anytime soon.[Via istartedsomething, thanks Anand]
MS is laughable, really.
For providing features to its customers?
Yeah, that's hilarious.
laughable because they are going to add a apple time-machine-like gui to their already exist shadow copy?
Shadow Copy is not Time Machine like. Read more please.
Shadow copy only saves previous versions of a document, on the same drive. If your laptop is stolen, and you want to restore all your apps/data from your last 'shadow copy backup,' onto a replacement laptop, you are SOL.
If MS wants to take a bite into Apple, they need to make this feature compatible with remote backup and restore of an entire disk (like a personal Mozy + Ghost, or Apple's time Machine on Steroids.)
The only difference is that time-machine has "slick ui", while shadow copy has lame ui.
"MS is laughable, really."
Indeed. For the person that believes Shadow Copy is just like Time Machine, a little more research is required for this individual. It probably will not make a difference, from my experience with these users, reading and comprehension seems to be broken for them.
@THJ
why does windows need to? Maxtor....Western Digital....Seagate
they already have this software for PC...and it works fine
its not as nice looking as time machine...but GUIs just need to be functional, not pretty.
I'd agree that Microsoft don't get it. They've lost the plot.
Apple releases Time Machine. It's great because it makes backups really accessible for the first time. No instruction manuals needed, no options to dig through - just click the "on" button and you're set. Need a file? Click an icon in the dock, find your file, and click restore. An infant could figure it out.
That's why 'mac fanboys' exist. Because Apple don't invent things, they reinvent them. They take a great technology like automatic backups, and make it easy to use. Shadow Copies not only doesn't perform the same function (in any capacity. Lost a file? tough. HDD crashed? hard luck.), you need to know it's there and exactly how to use it before you can use it.
Apple make great consumer products by leaving out the options and making things automatic. I don't want to care that my car is adjusting the suspension to make the ride smoother - I expect it to do that. Microsoft make great business and pro products by making everything an option - are you a home user? a premium home user? how about a business user? do you want an ultimate version of the product? do you have a 64-bit processor? Apple users don't need to care about any of that.
Shadow copy is for servers to "invisibly" make backups at the file level to cover for user mistakes. It has nothing to do with BACKUP software.
Time machine makes incremental backups to an external disk. The fact it backs up is not original, that is incremental is slightly novel in that they use a neat structure to save disk space from duplicated files. The killer feature is that it is plug-n-play. Plug in a disk, get a backup.. plug in the backup to a new computer restore EVERYTHING. With very little hassle. I've used it after wiping my macbook to troubleshoot the software and it restored perfectly... network, wireless, printers, scanners, cookies and passwords, SOFTWARE... Microsoft is incapable of making such an easy to use product without "owning" the process.. and windows software is too crappy to play nice with such software.
Windows Home Server has nothing to do with Shadow Copy.
@Mabhatter: Unfortuantely Microsoft is more than capable of providing the sort of backup you referred to and it's called Windows Home Server. Perhaps you should do some research because WHS does everything you just mentioned and a whole lot more.
let the floodgates of mac assholes be cast open!
Milk, came out of my nose.
... but it's so much more fun to bash Apple without knowing anything about its products!
o0o0oo0 unix just bashed all you apple haters :D
props bro
(:
Just because they have a better OS than microsoft doesn't mean they're justified in being such control freaks.
Control is NOT a prerequisite of Just Works.
@Unix
But it is so much easier to bash Microsoft without knowing the products.
First, Windows Home Server was released, with backup services, on July 16, 2007. Leopard, with Time Machine, was released October 26, 2007. So it could be said that Time Machine is a copy of WHS backup (not that backup is anything new in either WHS or Time Machine). I have not used Time Machine with my Mac, so I don't have much experience with it (my mac does not get enough use nor does it contain any important docs to warrant a backup). But looking over Apple's web site, there is a checkbox to allow you to disable backing up specific directories - just like WHS (which was released first). Time Machine will do a daily backup - just like WHS (which was released first). Time Machine lets you restore your entire computer to a previous state - just like WHS (which was released first).
Oh, and support for Time Machine was going to be added to WHS, but Apple removed support because of problems on their side: http://www.christopherprice.net/windows-home-server-time-machine-fall-apart-63.html
This article is just about making a UI that competes with Time Machine. Oh, the horror! Making something easier to use (Time Machine does look like it would be a bit easier to use) and, gasp COMPETING! We don't want competition with Apple products, the only competition we want is with Microsoft products, Apple should have the market all to themselves when they release something.
(Note, Unix, this went a little bit further than your argument, so not all of it was specifically directed at you)
ya, after using various backup software for my PC, after getting my macbook for school, i realized that Time Machine is the best backup software that has ever existed.
@Level 5
LOL
Yep and PC/M$ users are the greatest things on Earth. PC Pricks would be more accurate than M$ fanbois. I could never understand how anyone can be a M$ fan. Using it sure, but a fan of the Great Satan? I don't get it.
And I have 4 PC's, 1 Mac and WHS, they are all fun to use, until the spyware and malware hits.
@nohone
I understand what you are saying but Windows Home Server was definitely not the first server to provide backup services since they've been used in the enterprise for donkeys years. The important difference here is that Time Machine does not require you to have a server - just an external disk. It's also incredibly efficient with none of the usual application of a full backup and a sequence of incremental updates.
I don't think that anyone is claiming that Time Machine was the first backup solution, just that it is probably the easiest solution for the home user.
Still, if Microsoft wants to provide a backup solution for home Windows users then that's fine by me, although one without Windows Home Server is likely to be more popular.
@Kelmon
In what I wrote that there were other solutions before it TM or WHS. And having Time Machine work with an external drive rather than going through a server is a great idea. WHS and TM are very different products that perform somewhat similar functions. Some people here (not you, your comment was not attacking) are trying to compare the two, when there really is no comparison - much like some say that Apple TV and Media Center are in the same class, they are not and serve very different functions with some overlapping. I was just saying that if others want to compare them, then let's compare them.
I don't see the point of bashing over this. If Apple has a good idea then Microsoft will try to copy it and vice versa. I want to see good Windows features on my Mac and good Mac features on my Linux/Windows PC. That's progress.
Wait... I thought Microsoft was the biggest innovator in software in the world! Why would they be looking to hire someone to do it for them? Oh wait... that's how all their "innovations" started: buyout.
Because they suck at ui.
like Coverflow, and multi-touch, and GPS, and 3G, and the HD Mp3 player?
Mac didn't invent any of those things you idiot fanboi
they just bought the technologies and made pretty GUIs for them
@dan2600
Amen. But, pretty? Mac GUIs look like Fisher Price designed them. But I guess the hordes need their hands held as much as possible.
because Microsoft is a company that hires programers to make their products? This is a job ad, not a buyout.
"Mac GUIs look like Fisher Price" ?? Whoat?? No they don't. Mac GUI's (OS X) have very professional zen-grey colour. Windows XP on the other hand LOOKS LIKE FISHER PRICE due to their flashy BLUE, GREEN, SILVER themes. C'mon, XP's blue is more fisher price-like than OS X's grey. Asshole!
@Dan2600
You think "Mac" is a company and then call someone ELSE an idiot??
Oh, and by the way, where else did you see coverflow before Apple brought it to the masses? I've been using computers for 20 years and never saw mp3's displayed that slickly before coverflow. So go ahead--enlighten us. Further, they did not buy coverflow, they wrote it in house. The only major technology Apple (yes, that's right, the company is named "Apple", not "Mac" you Windows fanboi) has bought lately is multitouch that's used on the iPhone. Gee, it must be tough trying to support MS in the face of facts, eh?
@Serial 8-Ball Mouse: So that's why the XP UI (and in the same line Vista (OS X 0.5)) are refered to as Teletubbie UI...
"C'mon, XP's blue is more fisher price-like than OS X's grey. Asshole!"
Teenage fanboy rage is really something.
Kurt Tappe: "Oh, and by the way, where else did you see coverflow before Apple brought it to the masses? ... Further, they did not buy coverflow, they wrote it in house."
Wikipedia: CoverFlow was invented by artist Andrew Coulter Enright[1], and originally implemented by an independent Macintosh developer, Jonathan del Strother.
CoverFlow was purchased by Apple Inc. in 2006, and its technology was integrated into its jukebox application, iTunes 7.0, which was released September 12, 2006.[2] The name was also changed to “Cover Flow”. The last release of Steel Skies’ stand-alone application, version RC1.2, was released the day prior, September 11, 2006. It was freely distributed for that day only, but remains available for download from MacUpdate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverflow
Anything else you'd like to make up?
MS copying Apple.
Nothing new.
Why do you say that? Mojave already has this feature.
WHS was released almost 2 years before Time Machine. Pot have you met kettle?
@vypergts
Why bother with that bit of trivia?
These guys have an chance to flash their retard Apple fan badges, and nothing is going to put a damper on that.
"WHS was released almost 2 years before Time Machine. Pot have you met kettle?"
Time Machine isn't a copy of WHS. In fact, the two are completely different. WHS is about to copy Apple by including functionality similar to Time Machine with a similar UI.
So no, the pot and the kettle haven't met. Get your facts straight.
Sometimes Apple does something right-- copying them is generally one way to move forward.
@ everyone ranking Federico down
Nobody else caught the sarcasm?
If it was a time machine, can't they go back before WHS was created and release it then?
well well, the biggest me too company is now copying apple once again. surprised? im not, i just get used to it
anybody loving the new mac ads engadget is hosting on their pages? :D
Thanks clak for yet another bit of rank stupidity.
yes im stupid because MS copies apple. what do you enjoy more, commenting me off subject, or continuing to deny my post? hmmm? :)
That super, clak.
Totally rad.
Try to remember Apple copy M$, M$ copy Apple it's a little thing called "Market forces"
Apple is supposed to be original yet.....
Dashboard = Ripped from Konfabulator (poor guys couldn't afford the patent but sold out to Yahoo! for their payday)
iPod & UI = Ripped from Creative (who they paid to license it recently)
Visual Voicemail = What that revolutionary feature of the iPhone ? Yes they paid out licensing fees for that too
Multi Touch = Basically THE main feature of the iPhone, where did that come from ? Perceptive Pixel an MIT spinoff
Most fan boys try to give Apple the mouse and common OS UI, which was actually Xerox (in the 70s)
Also the dock which also happened to appear in Unix and OS/2 (Stardock made one for OS/2 long before Apple)
So we're really just left with white plastic, which isn't really a new idea is it ? My macbook is white, and while I am a fan of SOME Apple products I find that their irritating under informed foam-at-the-mouth fans are the most off putting thing about macs.
I also think time machine sucks and have it turned off by default if you want a good backup solution for mac try SuperDuper!
I know Steve Jobs hasn't rubbed himself all over it but that makes it more attractive for some of us.
@Major4play:
remember neXt (notice the X): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT
So whom copying whom
@Major4Play
yet the iphone and imac are the best products out there? there goes your argument, iphone & mac FTW!!
Major difference:
Apple either buys out out a company or licenses its technology.
Microsoft tries to "recreate" the technology in order to bypass licensing/giving credit where it's due.
Example:
Company Q finds out that 2 + 2 = 4 and patents it.
Apple buys Company Q and its patents.
Microsoft, realizing the usefulness of such an equation, comes up with its own competing equation.
Result: 2+1-(1*1)+2 = 4
Result: Apple has a superior, streamlined product directly from the source of innovation, while Microsoft has a less-efficient version that cost them less to produce.
@Major4Play
This is total true and sometimes the companies will actually come clean about it. For example, Steve Jobs honestly stated that Fast User Switching when it was announced for OS X 10.3 was done first in Windows XP. It would be nice if this honesty happened consistently.
Originality starts at Microsoft.
WHS + WMC + CableCard = HUGE WIN
Seriously, for that, I'd switch back to WMC and sell my stupid TiVo.
Agreed - the home server-tuner farm with extenders is my ideal home media distribution. Now if MS could just get VOB streaming to extenders official...PLEASE!!
Coverflow : I hate it
Time Machine : I hate it
WTF makes people think those UI are good? I keep both turned off by default on my Mac.
@brandon, what makes you think your opinion is in the majority? Just because you don't happen to like the UI doesn't make it bad.
I happen to agree with you for the most part. I rarely use coverflow, and I keep time machine turned off most of the time. Apple needs to provide a way to manage the backup times. For me, hourly backups don't make sense. I would love the security of an hourly backup, but the impact on my network and my computer annoys me too much.
However, using time machine to recover a file is just beautiful. It would be nice to have some sort of merge tool to compare the history, but its way better than anything else I've seen.
Time Machine does not have a nice UI, but it has a good UI and it's a real relief to know that I now can simply switch on my HD to start a backup, which is a principle function of Time Machine. the second function (restore previous versions) is not easily accessible in the normal UI, so Apple created a more user-friendly UI. This UI didn't go down that well in terms of looks, but it is effective.
But Cover Flow? Are you kidding? Absolute genius (not Apple's, I know) - especially on the iPods.
Ok guys, the article already says it; hell, the job application pretty much says it: Apple's Time Machine UI has inspired Microsoft to work on a good UI... Now a lot of you may be thinking "This is just another example of how Microsoft is copying Apple..." You wanna know how I know that you're thinking this? Half the fucking comments say the exact same thing! Please come up with something new and insightful if you're going to comment; otherwise, it's just a waste of everyone's precious bandwidth.
im just kidding haha
microsoft pretty much stole this right from Apple, as usual. looks like theyre going to steal winmo 7 from them as well *sigh*
Apple has to do all the work.
Well, that's pretty annoying, but if you click on the names, you'll see that the account numbers are different. I wonder if there's anything Engadget can do to show that two similar-looking accounts are actually different...
you have different avatars. problem solved.
Yeah, but he can easily change his avatar to mine. It once was the same and I tried to change mine; for some reason it didn't work and he decided to change his. He is still trying to impersonate me... =/
@zomg0t
Don't worry about it. I don't think he can change his profile name to match yours, so once we click on the profile links we'll know who's who.
@Apple Rep.
You are one pathetic FAT emo. Do something useful for once, join the army already and die for you country. For someone with such a low IQ and utter uselessness, honorable death is your only chance at redemption from idiocy.
First they need to lower the price of entry on homeserver. Time machine is a wonderful product given how much it costs
How good of them to play catch up... again... again.
At least those stuck in the Windows world will get an adaptation of this essential tool (saved me many times :P) Shame its gonna be stuck on Windows Home Server (why?) which i really can't see catching on anytime soon :)
How many WHS gamers do we have here?
Ah yes, that was Windows Server 2008 I was thinking of, never mind..
I still don't get why they don't put all their features in one OS though. ..perhaps it pertains to their lack of ability to even cobble together a single base system coherently. *shrugs*
Apple has two as well though-- but it seems to me that ZFS would be quite the time machine replacement......
I think a time capsule is still cheaper than a whole computer dedicated to backups
FACT
windows market share still retains >90%
/Thread
keep up on the news bud, it fell a few more percentages, and will continue to fall :)
"it fell a few more percentages"
lol. You are a fucking idiot.
hahahaha aww cant face the facts? ;)
Wooosh
Honestly, who cares about shadow copy. You can browse each file from your backups and restore by backup, so its fine.
What's most important about this is the MCE integration. Having MCE running on the server with all the tuners on it, with just extenders around the house, that's the future of MCE/ WHS.
I care about Shadow Copy.
We have it installed by group policy for all the fucktards that press delete and go "Eh? Where'd it go?" then come sobbing about it to us.
'Us' being the ICT Team.
ha! I love how Microsoft can admit to copying Apple's GUI ideas (even if their implementations miss the point), and yet people STILL insist MS doesn't do that.
However, the Apple fan boys don't help. Think about it like this: if an MS job posting clearly stating their intentions to copy Apple's Time Machine implementation isn't blatant enough, there's nothing you can say here on these forums that will convince people otherwise.
If you read the job posting you'd realize that they are NOT looking to COPY time machine. They just realize that apple came up with a good UI for a back up utilty and they're looking for someone that can come up with a UI to COMPETE for their own back up utility.
For all of the MS haters in here, let me drop a little knowledge bomb on you:
MS implemented their 'shadow copy' form of incremental backups of separate file versions in Server 2003 in April of 2003. It was implemented in all of their operating systems since then, including Vista & Home Server. Shadow copy is different from system restore, as you can pick the frequency of the incremental backup checks. At my workplace we make a shadow copy at 9am and at 2pm on a daily basis to both a separate bank of drives and LTO tapes; with our storage space, we have a working 'history' of all of our files for 4 months at a time.
This feature is nearly identical, if not entirely identical to Apple's much touted 'Time Machine,' except for the fact MS released it over 5 years ago - and included it in Vista from the launch. Apple has a slick UI, that's the only difference I can find, and it sounds like that's all they're attempting to do with their home server product it make the UI less utilitarian.
Saying they're copying features from Apple, in this case, is laughable.
/Thread
Steve is right, everyone else is wrong. MS implemented shadow copy before time machine and it can be stored not only locally but on any backup medium even over the internet across the world. A little better than time machine. Apple made the "list" of backups make it seem like youre flying through time which is cool, MS just has a vertical list with dates/time stamps. the MS version is pretty much better, however the apple one is easier to use because of the UI and now MS is trying to remedy that too.
/thread indeed....i don't even feel like trolling anymore
Mac OS X = PC Operating System.
Windows Server 2003 = Server Operating System.
It was much touted because it was the first major implementation of this sort of thing for PCs.
@KA
Shadow copy has been implemented in Vista since day one, and if I recall correctly, Vista has been around longer than Leopard.
So can Shadow Copy and/or WHS restore all apps/documents to a replacement PC? It is my understanding that it can restore docs, but not apps, am I wrong?
Yeah! Steveeee!
I think reading these comments has made my brain shrivel.
So what if they want a time-machineish GUI? It looks functional. Although at the end of the day, the whole concept of WHS is flawed because a server that you cannot hook a monitor up to is useless.
At least for me anyway (I run websites, torrents, auto backups on mine). I'll stick to XP Pro for mines cheers ;)
Haven't you heard of remote desktop? It is this revolutionary new technology that allows you to connect to a machine remotely like you were sitting right there.
Come on man, the whole point of a server is to operate headless.
Besides the point that if you want to hook up a monitor to it, there is absolutely nothing software-wise stopping you. Maybe the HP ones don't have a monitor output or something, I've got no idea, but you're better off building yourself anyway, in a larger case for more storage. In fact, you need to hook up a monitor for the initial OS install.
Do you think every server in a data center is hooked up to a monitor? Or even a KVM switch? Not a chance! We have racks full of servers, the only connections to them is power cord and network. All maintenance is done by remote PC.
If you think a monitor is necessary, then I have a question for you: How did you configure your internet router? I bet you configured it through your internet browser. That's all a server needs. At home I run a small Linux box as my home server, and I do all the configuration over HTML and SSH, including everything from formatting the drive to downloading files by bittorrent, without any sort of monitor or keyboard attached to the box.
Absolutley, and through Remote Desktop, i can work on my business computer from home. Better.
finally there implementing MC into a server!
Take a look at www.rebit.com--TMFW with bare metal recovery!!
Hell, MS should just buy rebit (assuming it works as advertised). I bet they could make a ton of money selling this to small businesses and home users.
I HOPE that this means that MS is going to be enhancing WHS by building Media Center into the server and allowing PCs and extenders to run media center remotely against the server... I love media center, it has the best UI (IMHO) of any PVR I've used (Tivo, UltimateTV, my Cox Cable DVR, etc.). My two complaints against media center is that I can't successfully run it on a laptop since when I take my laptop with me it isn't able to record shows.
By putting the guts of media center on a server along with my backed up data it fits my ideal vision of what a home server should be... I hope they do this... along with getting DirecTV support in media center.
@k2001
Shadow Copy is similar to Time Machine in their approach but there's a bit more of a difference than simply a GUI. Time Machine is particularly wizzy due to its low overhead because the OS records when files are updated in a log file and Time Machine uses that to determine what has changed rather than searching the disk. The combination of this and the use of UNIX hard links enables Time Machine to very quickly produce what appears to be a total backup of the disk each hour. Add to this an application context that enables you to restore, for example, photographs from within iPhoto rather than just image files in the file system and you have a very simple and efficient backup solution.
Still, it's nice to hear that Shadow Copy will be making backups on non-local disks. That's going to be really useful for home users.
Damn you, comments system!
@ard
So the dock, that's all you got ? I really don't need wikipedia to educate me about neXt thank you and yes I did notice the X =P
@ Apple Rep
That's called "YOUR OPINION" and sadly your lack of factual back up makes it completely pointless.
Is the iPhone the worlds best selling phone ? No Is the iMac the worlds best selling desktop computer ? No
(I own a new one and the wifi bug was very annoying when it managed not to reboot on it own, yes both design bugs as told to me by an Apple employee when he failed to fix it, a later update did.)
@John
Has apple been advertising the involvement of Konfabulator in Dashboard or Perceptive Pixel in multi touch ? No in fact big Steve claimed he'd patented Apple's multi touch tec, no Steve you licensed !
I own a lot of Apple products (new iMac, old iMac, macbook and several PCs) but I don't worship one product I pick what works best.
But then the rankings speak for themselves.
Sigh.... did I sigh loud enough? SIGH!!! You Apple zealots just have to get the jab in don't you?
VMS has been doing something similar for longer than I can actually remember. In fact, that's where I first heard of "shadow copies" anyhow. We're talking at least 20 years here. Most of you weren't a twinkle in your father's eye when it first came out, based on the comments I'm readying.
There is almost nothing new in computers, just "better."