Zune 30, older iPod classic getting new firmware fun

Apple and Microsoft both issued a slew of updates to the iPod and Zune lineups in the past two days, and it looks like some of the new features will be kicked down to older devices as well. Although it was expected that second-gen Zunes would get all the new Zune 3.0 features, Microsoft says that the older Zune 30 will also receive an update to enable Buy From FM, Channels, and WiFi music store features, and Apple reps at the Let's Rock event told CNET that the iPod classic will eventually get an update to enable the new Genius playlists. That's particularly interesting since Genius is most definitely a new feature, but it doesn't sound like Apple's going to charge for it -- which flies in the face of the company's "we have to charge for new features because of Sarbanes-Oxley accounting requirements" $9.95 iPod touch update price reasoning. We won't complain too loudly about free updates, but that's definitely a little odd -- care to explain, Steve?

Update: We just spoke with Apple, and it appears people are getting all kinds of facts wrong. The iPod classic will not be getting an update with Genius functions. Don't ask us why... it just ain't.

Read - iPod classic getting Genius update
Read - Zunes getting Zune 3.0 firmware update

[Ike Turner @ Sep 10th 2008 5:07PM]

How the fuck cares about this genius crap ? At least MS is adding usefull features.

[Ike Turner @ Sep 10th 2008 5:08PM]

"Who" not "How"

[Varuna @ Sep 10th 2008 10:33PM]

Absolutely.. not mis judging the Genius feature, but there is nothing more to the Classic than just that!
I dont give a damn abt it coming to previous iPods.. The Zune is way more interesting and great update.
The power of software! :D

[absurdio @ Sep 10th 2008 5:34PM]

...also, "useful," not "usefull." I guess you shouldn't worry about "this genius crap" until you get basic literacy down.

[DeoWulf @ Sep 10th 2008 5:40PM]

Considering one of Zune's new features is almost the same as Genius playlists, I think you probably care. I'm not an iPod fan, but I still don't think you should get away with hypocrisy...

[Ray Von Sixx @ Sep 10th 2008 5:56PM]

How now brown cow, how now brown cow.

[tom @ Sep 10th 2008 5:57PM]

Honestly, Genius is all about Apple's year end earnings per share. Why did Jobs have emphasize the amount of credit card tagged to iTunes account. Having this Genius feature, they tell you what other people listens to and encourage you to buy songs, buy shows, buy movies.

That's where the money is.
How much money can Apple make on an iPod? Really?

[adrian @ Oct 7th 2008 6:57PM]

The IPod is why the Zune exists. let's not forget that.

[lt.milo @ Sep 10th 2008 6:31PM]

^And the Rio Karma is the reason the ipod is here. Did you forget that?

[iTunes iPod @ Sep 10th 2008 6:45PM]

@adrian

i second that, ipod revolutioned everything

[Alex @ Sep 10th 2008 7:00PM]

@lt.milo

The Rio Karma is the reason that iPod's exist? "The Rio Karma is a digital audio player originally made by the now defunct Rio. It was released in August of 2003. " and "iPod is a popular brand of portable media players designed and marketed by Apple Inc. and launched on 23 October 2001."

It seems to me that a product released in 2003 couldn't have somehow another product released 2 years previously.

[Alex @ Sep 10th 2008 7:01PM]

It seems to me that a product released in 2003 couldn't have somehow spawned another product released 2 years previously.*

[lt.milo @ Sep 10th 2008 8:09PM]

Excuse me, I meant the "Diamond Multimedia Rio PMP300". That came out far before the ipod, 1998 to be exact.

[Alex @ Sep 10th 2008 9:46PM]

Now that makes a little more sense :P

[Ethan @ Sep 10th 2008 9:14PM]

I don't find it useful, but Genius is not a mis-step, sites like pandora and last.fm have become quite successful, I think it's keeping up with potential competition.

[ill trooper @ Sep 11th 2008 1:19AM]

lt. milo - funny how you actually think a 32meg audio player from Rio actually had anything on the 5gig iPod. Seems that you've forgotten the other parts of the equation - iTunes song and playlist management, and firewire transfer.

True story, I have that 5gig iPod on a shelf of bric-a-brac and if I charge it it still works. I can't say anyone I knew at the time it was released was bothering with those garbage players before it.

[Michael @ Sep 11th 2008 2:26PM]

From the "read link"

Update: A previous version of this article suggested Apple would be making a free update for the original iPod classic that would add Genius functionality. Apple gave us a call, and apparently an Apple representative at the event the other day wasn't as much of an expert as we'd hoped.

Apparently there aren't plans to offer a free Genius-enabling update to the original iPod classic. This was, by the way, the same rep who told us high-definition iTunes downloads would be supported by the new iPod classic -- something that turned out to be only vaguely accurate.

From now on we're only going to believe Apple's event reps if their surnames are Jobs. -Nate Lanxon



My apologies to the OP for this being OT.

[Zinger314 @ Sep 10th 2008 5:08PM]

Who DIDN'T expect that the Zune 30 would also be updated to v3.0? Seriously.

[fieldcar @ Sep 10th 2008 5:19PM]

Exactly...
Also, its good to hear that our apple brethren can enjoy a split-screen-less view (right?). The split screen and slow operation was the killer for me when my old ipod photo 60gb kicked the bucket. So i went Zune 80 baby, and so far I think I made the right choice.

[BlissX @ Sep 10th 2008 5:36PM]

Expected or not, sounds like a subtle attempt to undermine Microsoft's great job of supporting older models.

[Shadow08 @ Sep 11th 2008 12:49PM]

Agreed. If it weren't for Microsoft giving free updates for the Zune, iPod owners would be expected to buy a new iPod Classic just to get the Genius feature. The only firmware improvement from 3G-4G iPod was the "Shuffle Songs" feature on the main menu, and Apple couldn't even provide an update for 3G owners then.

[tpadekar @ Sep 10th 2008 6:50PM]

@ Shadow08:

"couldn't" or "wouldn't"?

[Grant @ Sep 10th 2008 9:09PM]

"The only firmware improvement from 3G-4G iPod was the "Shuffle Songs" feature on the main menu, and Apple couldn't even provide an update for 3G owners then."

Bitter much? that was over 4 years ago, a fairly decent hardware revision by slimming 20 & 40GB ipods and removing the 4 buttons on the front and such a minor software change a firmware update was probably deemed unnecessary for the effort to be put into. Besides, even though firmware updates for DAPs are common place today, not so much back then.

And not to totally rain on Zune owners iPod hate parade, but apple doesn't update firmware with the newest features usually because the newer players usually have beefier hardware to support the new features, and older players just can't handle it. It's great that Zunes ship with enough power to utilized new features in the future, but ipods don't roll that way.

[Ruben @ Sep 10th 2008 10:01PM]

"It's great that Zunes ship with enough power to utilized new features in the future, but ipods don't roll that way."

Seriously? Microsoft has mastered looking ahead 3 years, while Apple can barely look one year ahead? Thats kind of sad, actually, for a company that is known for being so innovative and forward-looking.

[Viaono @ Sep 10th 2008 11:56PM]

@ Ruben

Why would you buy a new iPod if you can just download a new firmware to have same new features?

iPod wouldn't have sold over 160,000,000 - just because ones who own Gen1 would want to use the features on Gen2 Gen3 Gen4 Gen5 Gen5.5 Gen6 and so on....

They would just go to Apple store and buy one,

But for the Zuner out there in the world -
go to Zune software and click "Check for updates"
and would you just say "I love my (new) Zune" without having to afford a cent.

Zune will sell more if they don't care about their "Early Adopters"
But how will the customer going to love it - being left out with the old features.

[Daza @ Sep 11th 2008 9:35AM]

I'm glad that updates for the Zune are standard practise for Microsoft. They keep adding more and more features and the device has really transformed since it launched. Now, if I could use it as a removable drive... it would be perfect.

Rock on, my $79.95 refurbished Brown Zune from woot.com.

[SHadow08 @ Oct 13th 2008 1:57AM]

Grant, that is not true at all. I have a friend who has a FIRST gen iPod (yes, first) running the 4G firmware flawlessly. Also, if there was such a small firmware improvement from 3G to 4G, there's no big reason they couldn't ship out the updated firmware for the 3G iPod.

And yeah, it may have been 4 years ago, but they're still doing it now. Why can't the iPod Video (5G) run the iPod Classic firmware?

[Zeus.:God @ Sep 10th 2008 5:08PM]

I wouldn't consider the old 80GB and 160GB iPod Classics getting the updates of the 120GB Classic anything special... More like something that should be expected.

[panamnyc @ Sep 10th 2008 7:14PM]

the nano interface is nice with the full album art covering the whole screen, it would look amazing on a huge classic screen.

but it seems as though the classic is keeping its old interface

does anyone know for sure?

i mean on the nano to access genius u hit a button while the song is playing and a menu pops up. how would the classic do this?

[Zeus.:God @ Sep 10th 2008 8:21PM]

Looks amazing on my giganto Zune 80 screen as well. :)

I guess you could say Apple is taking a hint from Microsoft?

[telepheedian @ Sep 11th 2008 8:09AM]

The way the menu pops up also kind of rips-off the Zune, except the menu come from the top down on the iPod. Its funny, some parts of the interface look incredibly similar.

[Dave @ Sep 10th 2008 5:09PM]

I suppose the Nano 3g will get this update too? Hopefully.

[Zeus.:God @ Sep 10th 2008 5:12PM]

Probably not would be my guess...The only reason I can see them doing this is because the 120GB iPod Classic is no different from the 80 and 160 other than hard drive space. The new Nano, however, is "completely new" in the sense that it's new hardware, so I think they're either going to make you pay or not offer it at all.

[Josh @ Sep 10th 2008 5:16PM]

yeah, the genius is actually kind of cool for on the fly playlists - i really want to see this option on my nano 3g

[GiF @ Sep 10th 2008 6:33PM]

Ugh the difference is I bought my 80 gig classic for 250 bucks and now theyre selling 120 gigs for the same price!
Next time I'm getting an iPod it will be the nano!

[water.and.sand @ Sep 10th 2008 7:33PM]

@ GiF

"Ugh"? You're disappointed they're making things better without raising the price?
I bought my iPod "Classic" for $300. It's 10 gigs and has no color, but it's still awesome.

The Nanos are starting to look nifty though, aren't they? *shake shake*

[jakem @ Sep 10th 2008 5:12PM]

Wow, I don't care what the fanboys think of this but Apple are really copying Microsoft now. I can understand releasing updates for 1st gen. iPhones because they needed them so badly but when have Apple ever backported an update to a previous iPod version? Perhaps they've seen the potential in the Zunes and are starting to worry.

[Zeus.:God @ Sep 10th 2008 5:14PM]

LOL! As great as that would be, I doubt that's the case. It likely has to do with the fact that the new Classic is nothing new or special, and the only difference between it and the "old" ones is the hard drive.

[chefgon_ign @ Sep 10th 2008 5:25PM]

Apple isn't backporting anything. The "new" iPod Classic is exactly identical to the "old" 80gb iPod Classic, it just has a different capacity hard drive in it. When they say they are eventually bringing Genius support to the Classic, they mean they are eventually bringing it to the CURRENT Classic, as the new 120gb version doesn't have it yet. Since the Current and older classics are running the exact same hardware, that same firmware will work for all models.

While we're on the subject, that's the same thing Microsoft is doing. MS hasn't actually changed the Zune's internal hardware since launch. The new updates are free to users of older Zunes because all Zunes use the same hardware. When the "real" Zune 2.0 comes out with all new hardware in it, you can bet the original models will be abandoned just like older iPods.

[jakem @ Sep 10th 2008 5:52PM]

@chefgon_ign: The only problem with your theory is that Zune 1.0 has now received two software updates despite the fact that it does have different hardware to Zune 2.0.

As for the iPod, historically the only hardware changes have been to HDD capacity and yet they've never released the latest software for the previous hardware before.

This is clearly an attempt by Apple to ensure that Microsoft don't show them up by releasing updates for previous hardware versions. There's nothing wrong with that as it's good for iPod customers - just so long as you know that Apple got the idea from Microsoft.

[happy_penguin @ Sep 10th 2008 6:02PM]

Microsoft copies Apple, Apple copies Microsoft. What's the difference? It's been going on for decades now and it'll continue. That's the way it works.

[Nathan @ Sep 10th 2008 6:06PM]

Yeh but Microsoft (a) have only got 2% market share (b) are not selling overseas (c) have no competitor for the Shuffle or the Touch. Until they solve the last two they are never going to bother Apple too much.

[happy_penguin @ Sep 10th 2008 6:08PM]

You're right, Nathan. Microsoft is in dire straits. I hope that little thing they have called Windows can save them.

[Ruben @ Sep 10th 2008 7:52PM]

...And as long as they keep on making sure our old devices get to ride along the new ones in nearly every way, except in ways that cant be updated via software, that marketshare will remain low.

And i thank them for it every time there is a software update for it. It assures my 80 will last years.

Microsoft will make more money on music/subscription service and movies/TV Shows then they will on hardware. This isnt new, and is why the XBOX even exists.

Microsoft could have made the Zune 3 something that would require an upgrade from an 80, but there was nothing. They, instead, prefer to give all owners of the Zune the same exact features (minus TV out for the 8/16, which is a shame), and its a model that assures no one who gets a Zune leaves the ecosystem (save for a dense tatooed moron who made a stupid mistake switching, and could have really used the Nike+ of the new Touch, but instead has to live with the old one. Welcome to Apple buddy).

[Chris McDowell @ Sep 10th 2008 7:57PM]

For my 2nd gen iPod it got updates for about a two years. new codec support, new features and this stuff went back to 1st gen also. Got new features all through the 3 gen ipods. Once they started to go with the color screens is when I lost the newest features which was pictures and then videos.

[Michael @ Sep 10th 2008 8:51PM]

When Apple released the 5.5G video ipod they some of the new features to 5G ipod users. I know this is because I was delighted to find that my 30GB ipod one day suddenly had the ability to play 640x480 video instead of just 320x240 video. I also got the ability to scroll fast and see letters, play games, limit volume and so on. So no, this isn't the first time Apple has updated previous ipods with new ipod features. But people seem to forget this.

[Ruben @ Sep 10th 2008 10:05PM]

@Michael

People havnt forgotten that the Nano has never in its life received such an update, and the Touch requires a fee. Nor should they forget.

[coffee @ Sep 10th 2008 5:12PM]

As long as the older versions can handle the newer firmware and/or software, they should get the updates free - MS, Apple, whoever.

[telepheedian @ Sep 10th 2008 5:16PM]

This only makes sense, since the hardware is the same, there is no reason to track the different generations of classic firmware, they would have to judge it based on HD size, which would be a tricky proposition, especially if someone switched the hard drive out.

As far as the Zunes go, there actually is some difference in the 30 hardware and the 80/120 hardware, its cool that they test it and fix applicable bugs on both platforms.

[WhoMe @ Sep 10th 2008 7:09PM]

No Nilay Patel and telepheedian, this only makes sense because this is a feature that APPLE MAKES MONEY OFF.

I don't expect random commenters to use their brains, but Nilay Patel you and the rest of Engadget probably have your heads too far up Apple's ass to be able to use your brains. And this ain't Apple bashing, this goes for any company. Maybe nobody told you this, but Apple is a company and companies are in the business of making money.

How's about next time you take a more critical and professional approach when you're writing about stuff like this? But I forget, this is only a "blog", right?

Fuck's sake, almost as bad as the people who believe David Duchovny actually has a sex-addiction.