We've heard this about this dream so many times before, DRM that will make digital media as easy to use and as consumer friendly as a physical medium like DVD. We'd normally be quick to disregard this as yet another DRM "ecosystem" for digital media, but the list of players backing the Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem (or DECE) has us taking notice. As impossible as this seems, if anyone could make it happen, it'd be a group composed of: Best Buy, Cisco, Comcast, Fox, HP, Intel, Lions Gate, Microsoft, NBC Universal, Paramount Pictures, Philips, Sony, Toshiba, VeriSign, and Warner Bros -- yes, we also find it hard to believe that all these companies are working together. We'll have to wait until January at CES for the ins and outs of how this would actually work, but we do know it'll be based around a "rights locker" which will amount to a website where digital purchases will be stored -- we assume this is where VeriSign fits in. Oh, and Apple is noticeably absent from the list
posted Sep 13th 2008 6:11PM
Nooooo! All forms of DRM are EVIL!
you stole my coment - like word for word. cept i hadnt written it yet
Steam is a form of DRM and it is great.
its great if you want to actually pay for the games... piracy is great because its free... and we all know that free is better
:)
NO WAI. My carbon footprint is WAI bigger than yours. And you know what they say about big carbon feet-prints.
...
"Damn, he must have some big carbon feet-print socks."
Kill DRM. Kill it with fire.
Funny how when it came out Steam was almost universally criticized, whereas now it is always held up as the shining example of digital distribution/DRM done right.
We should fight back with PRM! Privacy Rights Management.
Then they pay us to consume their content!
We get $1.99 to watch an episode of 24.
BOOOOOOOOOOH!!
They'd have to pay me more than that to watch just one episode of 24.
I like this idea, you buy a movie and it's in your collection forever. You can't sell it or back it up, but you don't need to. Because you can just download it some other time. It also can't be stolen, it's yours.
"We've heard this about this dream so many times before, DRM that will make digital media as easy to use and as consumer friendly as a physical medium like DVD."
The only way to make digital media consumer-friendly is to kill DRM.
Is every consumer with me? Down with the DRM!
Amen! I don't care how many support it, I will NEVER buy ANYTHING with DRM. And you all should do the same!
The best DRM is a dead DRM.
DRM sucks! Fuck DRM, fuck DRM's mother, fuck DRM's dad, and fuck DRM's mother's pimp for pimping her out to him.
Simply print out the image from this blog post and carry it with you. That way you know exactly what companies to boycott. Thank you Engadget for compiling my boycott list for me!
Not quite. Steam rocks, and subscription music is dirt cheap and pretty effective.
Damn Right, Man.
well anything that makes it easier for the consumer!
o yea and can we PLEASE get the returning comment tab to WORK
works for me
If they put content providers image on top. it likely a try-to kill apple and sale more than $1 a song.
Not. iPod. Compatible.
NOoooooo!!!!
Apple's fault, no one else's.
The best way to solve this problem is to not buy an iPod
Apple has no reason to join. if this thing takes off it will most likely put a damper on Apple's stock.
NBC is back on iTunes though, so I'm good.
@ lawyer bird
1) Most people don't get TV for "free." My outrageous monthly cable bill proves my point. And not only am I already *paying* to get these shows (via my cable bill), but I'm *also* being forced to watch commercials. Double whammy.
2) Watching shows on one's computer sucks. I didn't buy a nice sofa and a home theater system to sit in my office chair and watch shows in a small window on my too-high-resolution computer monitor. Website-based TV viewing (Hulu, etc.) is an idea doomed to extinction.
3) TiVo isn't free either. My monthly TiVo subscription bill proves my point.
Man, apple is so 1337, they dont even play with these noob drms
@ Quix
1) One of the best high definition sources available is ATSC broadcast, completely free.
2) If you spent money on a home theater system and don't have a computer connected you wasted money somewhere. Hulu, Netflix's Watch Instantly, and sites like comedycentral.com all have decent quality content with low amounts of commercials for free.
3) If you are using a HTPC, a cable/sat provided DVR, or most non-Tivo DVR's you pay close to nothing for the actual DVR service.
If your going to do a three point response to a one line message make sure they are actually good points.
ppl are still going to choose the easiest form of obtaining content... torrents
ScT FTW
HDBits FTW
BitMeTV FTW
private trackers FTW
I think the point of this DRM is to be a wallled garden, and hardware based. Meaning that once you download that torrent, you wont have a device to play it on. Queue surge of DRM-free chinese knockoff appliances.
..speaking of, does OSX come with a torrent client like Transmission or does a person have to actually know what a torrent client is to download stuff with torrent files?
@Ethana2 That's a pretty dumb question. Or a smart question & your just dumb.
@zenstyle
Hard to call someone dumb when you can't fucking spell.
wow, another engadgeter that uses private trackers... I thought this day would never come. For those of you that don't know, private torrent trackers like TorrentLeech and TorrentBytes (use google if you've never herd of them) give you access to the fastest and most reliable pirated content available. The sites that Bob listed are the best trackers out there, but there are other trackers (like TorrentLeech and TorrentBytes) that will get you connected to some great piracy networks and are much easier to get into (you will need to work your way up to those amazing trackers that Bob listed).
Leave kazaa, limewire, and isohunt behind! Get into the private tracker world! :)
@Serial 8-Ball Mouse
My spelling skills are fine. I just have bad grammar skills :)
Who's the man now, dog!?
Easy for dorks like us perhaps.
The shiny disc is dead. Sony thinks they won the HD disc war but it was merely a diversion while less clueless players get their act togehter for the online side of things.
And it is a FACT that before we get awesome 1080p/24 goodies online legally it will need to be protected. The content providers need to trust the systems their content goes to. This issue of trust is the main reason you see all sorts of cool HD stuff on the xbox 360 but not Windows Media Center. Content providers just don't trust the PC. So this development is not surprising.
Now, for my boilerplate piracy spiel directed at nobody in particular:
1- Yes, 1337 hax0r d00d, I know "all movies are crap." That fails to explain why you spend bandwidth downloading 1080p MKVs of all this alledged crap. Be a man, admit you're just a thief too cheap to buy your movies.
2- "OMG! DVDs are SOO EXPENSIVE. So I steal them." STFU retard. I can't afford a Ferrari but have yet to jack one. Which leads me to:
3- "It's just bits MAN! Bit's don't cost anything! The bits want to be free, MAN!" Ok. Put down the bong, hippie and don't mind me while I clean all the bits out of your bank account. After all, they;re "just bits" and they want to be free.
I think that jsut about covers it. And yes, I torrent stuff occasionally. And I know it's wrong. Sure, I have excuses. But that's beside the point.
@ zenstylejunglist
YOU have the bad grammar, my friend. Try substituting "your" with "you're" then criticize someone on their English.
nice to see steve is still sticking to the no DRM pollicy wish other companys would follow suit
The only reason Steve isn't a DRM fan is because he has nothing to lose. iTunes makes pennies from songs,etc. So Apple doesn't care much about piracy and can afford to take the popular-with-consumers, anti-DRM approach, and end up looking like the good guys. If they were actually were content providers, it'd be a whole different story...
no DRM policy? HA!
Want to put that music you bought from itunes on a player that isn't an iPod? No wait, you can't because of DRM!
Steve's iPod empire was built on a foundation of stolen music. If Napster never existed, the iPod never would have taken off.
What made you think Apple is anti DRM? Was it their store of which 99%+ of it's offerings are protected by DRM? It's innovative features for keeping people locked into iPod hardware for fear of losing that DRM laden collection? Or the fact that even though noname companies like 7digital have managed to sign up most major music companies under DRM free deals, that Apple continue to offer their DRM versions? (7digital also undercuts Apple on most songs btw)
@Juxtah Actually, with the iTunes + songs, you can put them on another player. Steve is anti-DRM, but only because he can afford it.
Juxtah: that would be Steve Job's public letter asking for record companies to remove DRM from music. EMI obliged and their music, and some smaller labels, is DRM-free on iTunes. The other large record companies continue to force Apple to use DRM on iTunes whilst promoting DRM-free on the likes of Amazon because they are obviously using DRM as leverage against iTunes.
This group has some serious clout.
- Philips Research is one of the best R&D departments in the world. They've been making breakthroughs in everything from particle physics and energy efficiency, to badass LED lightbulbs and air humidifiers.
- Warner and Sony represent a significant amount of digital media content. I'd guess at least 75%.
- Microsoft has an overwhelming market share in desktop OSes, have a significant majority in server OSes, have a significant R&D department, and have been making advances in digital content for ages (WMA, WMV, VC-1...etc). Oh, and Windows Media Centre and the 360 mean they also have control over living room media.
- Sony have significant market share in games consoles, TVs, HiFis, phones...etc. All the devices you'd like your digital media to work with.
- VeriSign have been leading in data encryption and integrity for years.
- Cisco have significant R&D in data security. Why couldn't the technologies which protect this DRM share it's security features or engineering design with corporate networks? They're both about limited access, there's bound to be a lot of overlap for technologies to cross sides. They've also got a lot of experience for creating the back-end servers to make sure it's hard to crack.
I don't know why Best Buy are in there. Apart from them, it's pretty much the who's-who of data security and digital media corporations. Apple is a notable absentee. I think they'll join, though - those studios could put pressure on Apple to support it. It's hardly a secret that the content providers aren't comfortable with Apple's dominance in digital media.
DRM = suck my balls
DRM = Doesn't Really Matter
Torrents FTW!!!
You are Right.
DRM causes global warming.
Actually, I blame gentoo portage for that.
..but DRM does eat babies.
DRM killed Jesus.......
Damn Roman Men
It's true, all that extra CPU power required to en/decrypt the media means your devices generate more heat. Multiply that by a few million and wham, global warming.
(Yes, I'm joking.)
Crack for DECE just released.
Why is Sony's logo placed higher than Microsoft?? Huh?
HUH?
Because SONY is grouped with the content PROVIDERS?
SONY and Toshiba, sitting in a tree?
Sony and Toshiba co-developed the Cell, it's not as if they've never collaborated before.
I know that...but now they are collaborating SINCE the BD/HD DVD wars. Warms my cockles that does.
Why cisco and comcast are in the MOB? Since streets belong to them?
Waiting for more info, a system like this could be overtly protective, annoying and slow that punishes the honest consumer and drives more to piracy (highly likely). Or it could be a nice, simple system that is effective simply because of its apparent lack of overt protective features like Steam (highly unlikely).
couldnt said it better myself. I was an honest consumer until i tried making a back up of a disc. now im not.
Perhaps it'll 'update' your system automatically and you can see ads all over your desktop forever afterwards, just like steam does with games.
And when you hack them away you are no longer 'in good standing' and your system gets screwed.
TPB is NOT on the consortium? That's crazy. Who would trust these companies?
FIOS, where are you?
That's why I buy CDs. I choose the quality of the audio files and they're DRM-free.
You must like paying for your rootkits.
Rootkits? No one does that anymore. ...that I know of..
Rootkits? Yeah, that might've been funny... three years ago!
Yeah Audio Cd's come with rootkits. You guys are geniuses.
As long as I can wrap it in RealDVD and make a copy I'm gold.
First everyone who says DRM sucks should really be saying DRM that doesn't work sucks. Which is all DRM to date.
If this system really does work and I can switch my media from my Sony Player to my Toshiba Player to my Xbox and my PC then it's good. Hopefully with that sort of backing it can become an industry standard.
Oh and by the way entertainment industry people, welcome to 1995!
This, like most other DRM still phones home for permission to run. When those who manage your Digital Rights decide they don't want to run the server anymore - no music for you.
DRM - another word for "You DON'T own it."
In the end, the pirates always win.
DRM takes mere minutes to crack. Hell, Spore was cracked before it was released.
However, now that monopolizing companies have taken in (Microsoft, for example) hardware and hard-coded restrictions will be put in.
Thank goodness I know how to install Linux (I've played with a few flavors), have Mac OS X, and actually have a brain (unlike most other Americans...)
I like how the corner of the WB logo is covering up part of the Paramount logo. Nice photoshop guys! Ha ha.
WTF are you talking about?
Jerks fixed it. And I made 'em. ;-)
As much as I hate DRM, I think this is better than the separate islands of DRM we have now. If this cannot fail like PlaysForSure, it could become an all-encompassing DRM system that so much media lives under, it'll be like there was no DRM.
I doubt this system will be stricter than systems we have in place with things like the iTMS, Zune Marketplace and so many others. With so many companies, we just might be able to legally buy shit and move it around to whatever I want. Zune to my Sony Ericson phone to my HP PC and so on.
If there has to be a DRM in the future, a form of it that encompasses every device I have would be the way I would have it.
Apple's noticeably absent from the list precisely BECAUSE this group has formed to "combat Apple's dominance". I've been part of several studio meetings in the formation of Open Market, and it's primary purpose (though not public position) is to break Apple's perceived control of the retail channel.
This is SO doomed to fail, not because of Apple (love 'em or hate 'em), but because the basic motivating principle behind this is;
- not unity
- not (honestly) a better customer experience
- not increased revenues for the artists
It's just basic vengeance. Business plans built on that rarely succeed.
Unless you happen to be Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer. Then they always work, because if you can't change the market response, noone says you can't change the rules behind Capitalism itself.
Oh yeah Samuel...right on target there. So many people neglect to notice what a huge success the Zune is against the iPod, how copying Mac and Linux OS features has helped Vista so much. Yep - barnstorming success those boys have had.
more DRM? Be afraid... be very afraid.....
I will not use drm.
if I get something with it, I will remove it. NO one should be able to control media which device media I pay for gets played on. why can't I have my stuff on my: laptop, desktop, tablet, pda, backup pda, mp3 player, and cellphone? I do use all of them.. and it isn't like the music would be shared.. I don't just hand out my tech gear.
if it can be played it can be cracked. DRM will continue to fall to those with too much free time and skill.
Yes.
Can we begin coordinating a boycott of all of these companies now? Haven't they learned that the public won't support DRM?
The 'public' will do anything they think they have to.
As for me, I get all my music from jamendo.com, 192Kbps vorbis over bittorent, and there's no frigging thing they can do about it.
Sure they are willing to work together - to rape customers.
It would be called:
Corporate Gangbang 7
DRM IS global warming.
all these billion dollar companies are putting this super secure drm into place, spending millions of dollars....... and then 5 unpaid hackers crack it in 3 days
@Juxtah:
If you have read Steve Jobs open letter you should know Apples stance towards DRM http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/
Apple doesn't own or control any music in their store, the music companies does. It's not their choice to use DRM, either they use DRM or the music companies wont sell their music through iTMS.
And the fact that noname companies manages to sign up for DRM free music while Apple don't is because the music companies are afraid of giving Apple and iTunes too much power. About a year ago Universal announced that they would start selling DRM free music through Best Buy, Walmart and Amazon, but not iTunes... http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/08/universal-hates.html
In the letter three of the main points are true for all kinds of DRM today:
- DRM has never and will never be perfect. Hackers will always find a method to break DRM.
- DRM restrictions only hurt people using music legally. Illegal users aren't affected by DRM.
- The restrictions of DRM encourage users to obtain unrestricted music which is usually only possible via illegal methods.
Well this didn't get posted where it was supposed to...
I think Im starting to understand why everyone complains about the comment system.
Apple didn't become anti-DRM until they felt DRM was no longer working for them. They continued to use DRM after some labels no longer demanded it, and lied by saying they had no choice.
@Andune
- Apple is one of the forefathers of DRM, let's not give them a free pass here.
you buy a book, you can read it when you want
you buy a DVD, you can play it when you want
hell, even when you buy an mp3 you can play it when you want
..... relying/trusting on Warner Bro's or NBC to play nice with something you don't actually physically own has to be the biggest arse backwards idea they've ever had
this is such an Epic Failure in the making that I'm surprised that they're even thinking about it
They're just wasting their money and time.
You made it, we killed it.
You make a new one? We'll kill that too.
DRM simply will never take off unless everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) converts to using commercial hardware and software. Honestly, I'll pay for my DRM'd music when I can FTP it to XBMC running on my recycled original Xbox (or any other open-source software running on a non-commercialized system) without extra time for verification and what not.
While not impossible by any means, it simply won't happen. For the software/hardware to conform to the DRM's standards the developers must know how it works, and good luck finding any large cooperation willing to hand that information out to people who make no profit and are unwilling to sign contractual agreements regarding the DRM.
Unless the DRM is as simple to play as and MP3 or even OGG I'm not interested. I want to be able to load up my most recent linux distro of choice, install the basic media support and codec pack, and freely play my music and video without so much as having to connect to the internet.
I have no idea how that could be pulled off, but that's what I need before I even start to consider a DRM format.
Another easy one. Each of the signatories thus far has something to gain with DECE. The studios gain because they're convinced that piracy is destroying profits. Tech companies win because their own attempts at offering iTunes competition have failed, and as things currently stand, Apple wins, and they lose. Since Apple is doing so well, there's absolutely zero incentive to change course at this point, unlike the signatories, each of whom would be better off if Apple joined the DECE. So why exactly should Apple (or any company) sacrifice itself for the benefit of other corps?
It's usually at about this point that we get the "for the good of the consumer" argument. First of all, what's good for consumers often doesn't help a corp's share price, and thus such altruistic sacrifices are not well received by shareholders, many of which will sue at the first reasonable opportunity. Second, what's "good" for the consumer isn't always clear. If Apple were to join, then the monopoly claims roll in when the group decides that all songs should be $3 and movies $30. At that point, the same people complaining now would complain that they were being gouged by the DECE, and many of you would find a way to blame Apple since you have this irrational hatred for the company (not to say you have to like it; I'm not a huge fan of MS, but I don't hate it either. I just don't care. It's called being an adult, and generally requires that you move out of your mom's basement, which is very difficult for many of you).
I know each of you thinks you know what Apple or other companies should do, but if you did, you'd be 1) rich, and 2) doing something other than reading this. Remember, people like you thought that the keyboard made the mouse unnecessary, that no audio player that sold for $399 could ever be a hit, and that the Xbox 360 and the PS3 would blow away the Wii. In other words, not only do you know far less than you think; you know so little as to be virtually useless to any corporation in any role other than worker bee. Let's face it. . .many of your post here because sites like this are the only place you can get people to even be aware of your opinions, much less care about them. Cheers.
/stands /applauds
Excellent!
Life is the dancer, and you are the dance!
The extent of the ego's inability to recognize itself and see what it is doing is staggering and unbelievable. It will do exactly what it condemns others for and not see it. When it is pointed out, it will use angry denial, clever arguments, and self-justifications to distort the facts. People do it, corporations do it, governments do it. When all else fails, the ego will resort to shouting or even to physical violence.
Pay no mind but pay attention!
TG