How would you change OpenMoko's Neo FreeRunner?
By Darren Murph 
posted September 19th 2008 6:46PM
posted September 19th 2008 6:46PM
posted September 19th 2008 6:46PM
powered by gdgt
A look back on popular stories from today in a specific year.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
A sliding keyboard would be awesome. I cannot stress how great a sliding keyboard would be. That is probably the one hardware feature that I would most want added.
I would make it more useful. GPS, Wi-fi, touchscreen, Full linux.
Keyboard.
It seems to me many individuals bought one or thought of buying one just because it was new or had linux running on it. The main feature of the phone is that it is an open hardware/software platform (for the most part). If you don't like the looks then design a case. If you don't want to go to the command line to start wifi then write up a gui for it. So basically if you are not able to do any of the previous items you should not buy it. The window environment can be anything you like from their own GUI Openmoko based on Foss to Google's Android. Now for me the only issue I have with the device is the lack of 3G radio. My data use is intense and going back 4 years in that technology isn't acceptable. I know that in many other countries GSM data charges can be steep but it is a necessity. Wifi is nice but not everyone has a free or pay per use wifi hotspot available in every corner. Anyhow great hacking platform.
3G and EDGE are a must. A larger screen would be nice. Also, multitouch would rock. A bit slimmer couldn't hurt, but is not too important.
an important thing that this needs is better connectivity. The interface can change into something better(Somehow i have a feeling that the UI was designed using INKSCAPE) & more space & i am totally with the Wi-Fi, Accelerometer, 100 % foss software built in
The usability would have very little to do with the use of Inkscape vs. Illustrator vs. whatever. The appearance can hardly be blamed on the use of Inkscape, and more on the designers. The same goes for interface design.
Judging from the others' commnets, you're spot on with the connectivity issues. After they get the engine of the best running 100%, it'd be due time for perfecting its appearance/GUI.... which could be done professionally using Inkscape.... :D
admittedly, it's a pain in the ass to own one. but it's a hacker's dream phone.
the real definition of this device is more accurately "an arm9 micro-computer with a gsm modem"
when you look at it like this, as opposed to it being a phone, all the little software quirks become much more tolerable. the hardware itself is usually quite stable. the ONLY reason that phone calls are problematic is because the people providing the gsm radio never released the software interface for it; the device interfaces with it thru a serial port.
the only "problems" that the phone really has is it's incomplete bluetooth drivers, meaning no bluetooth headset support, and minimal ftp; and it's suspend problems, which are mostly software related. personally, i like the idea of being able to run a full LAMP server on my phone, or air-crack a wifi hotspot, or download a map of the entire world. phone-internet is basically dial-up anyway, and costs this little thing called MONEY that plenty of those people interested in this device don't have much of.
and remember, it's cheaper than an iphone, its just not subsidized.
(i woudln't mind a graphics chip of some sort...it would really be nice)
Yes Linux knowledge is required for this phone, & yes it may seem primitve. At the same time there is alot more options, software is being updated everyday, all of it is free. No 2 yr. contracts all the way unlocked. I myself don't worry about edge, 3G to make calls gprs is just fine for that, data is seperate issue. Neo is my favorite phone i every had. Way open software & hardware. The best way i could describe this computer/phone right now in two words is Future Primitive
oh yeah, of course i got Touches 1 & 2. Looking forward to Gigabyte M528!
Faster processor, more internal memory, full size USB port, sleeker stylus + storage space for it, consumer ready software, 3.5G, shippable quantities.
1. Absolutely must change the screen. Something like the iPhone screen would be superb.
2. 3G would be nice.
3. Faster processor
er, what? the screen on this is higher res with much greater dpi than the iphone. Sure, it doesn't have multitouch but it's fine to use without it.
And yes, I own a freerunner.
I would make it run a faster and less bloated OS, like Inferno http://code.google.com/p/inferno-ds/
You can now run Inferno on top of Linux kernel (using framebuffer or X11): http://code.google.com/p/inferno-openmoko/
You are welcome to write some phone stuff for it, like dialer and gps moving map.
and of course to help run native Inferno on Openmoko.
I think that the OS needs some new things for make better the interface. It needs a connection manager like network manager, and better support for some programs.
In hardware it needs a better GPU and CPU, HDSPA, wifi N, and if its possible, use a multitouch finger screen, because it gives a better performance for usability.
Better documentation.
I understand it's a work in progress.
I understand some love and patience is going to be necessary to help foster the truly impressive open-source mobile environment they're hoping to create.
But the fact of the matter is there's a large community of "intro-superusers" who would love to contribute code and experience to the project but don't have the kernel hacking/hardware knowledge required to get one of these working well, and the documentation (at least imho) isn't anywhere near where it needs to be to get the ball rolling.
Buggy emulation, incomplete hardware support, and mediocre site design won't cut it when the OpenMoko project is pitted against the more locked-down but more accessible Android-enabled phones.
...Also a camera would be kinda neat.
1. change design (Bigger display maybe wide display, smaller & slimmer)
2. faster booting. FreeRunner using 400 MHz already. but for now it's so slow to boot.
3. New phone book Integrate IM, VOIP (make wifi & IM = free call to MSN, AOL, Yahoo, G-Talk wifi & VOIP = low cost talk)
i'd make a cdma version, change the 2.5mm headset jack to 3.5mm, give it a better camera, and offer it in several colors, mainly red. i liiike red
Note: I actually own one of these
- As mentioned above include a place to put a stylus or stop using UI elements where you need one
- Although the resolution on this this is amazing, a larger screen area would be nice
- camera
- Either different hardware versions to include support for 3g, edge, perhaps even CDMA (very unlikely) or a new version altogether
(why no CDMA? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CDMA )
Software-wise it released prematurely, and looking at current alpha/beta projects things are going to get a whole lot better.
Sadly this might still be a while away
Maybe turn it into a hacking platform like this company did? http://www.neopwn.com
Keyboard has got to be changed.
Capacitance screen instead of pressure.
EDGE/3G and/or EVDO/HSDPA.
Better hardware/software integration on the device itself (no user should ever have to touch the command line).
Better syncing with all OSes, not just Linux.
Honestly, I know the Freerunner is still a developer preview, but it's simply not ready for anyone but developers yet. Give it another year or two, especially after Android is out, and I'm sure it will be an option if not a competitor.
I tracked this device a while ago and forgot about it. Like one user said, I've used it in an emulator and it seems like a great little platform. Does this support the Verizon network?
In such an innovative device, it would be nice if in the final product there was more innovative hardware:
people already said a better CPU and Touch screen. I do not own this device and will take their word for it that these are inadequate.
but just because the phone is round, that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't have a larger touch screen. wasn't there a lot of progress in shaped lcd's this year? (like the sort of pointless heart shaped screen)
just saying, a round phone with a full touch screen would look sick.
also, i'd make sure it had a really good battery, even if it made the phone thicker. I have a feeling that people interested in this wouldn't mind if it were twice as thick as an iphone if it lasted 3 times as long as long as it was comparable in utility and usability.
I have faith in the linux community to make this device shine. also, i'm not sure i like android because it discourages amateur devs by being more difficult to code for.
all in all, I'm keeping an eye on OM, they have the potential to rock the market with a well executed final product.
The design of the phone is subpar, what's up with that huge ring at the bottom? They need to make it a lot thinner, like the iPhone and it's many look-alikes. If you've ever seen the comparison that's even linked to on the OpenMoko wiki, you'll see what I mean (the phone is a beast when compared next to an iPhone).
Other than that, I haven't really tried out the operating system yet, but judging by the screenshots on the wiki, a nicer interface would be nice, the icons looked really bad.
I can't really ever see myself with this phone, I'd rather go with one of the nice, pre unlocked Google Android devices that'll start cropping up soon.
I've had one since july when they released the gta02. I've had some major issues (but expected) when using this phone. Such as the 2008.08 release mishap, where users were expecting a stable OS, but really it was a few steps backwards.
however, much has improved since july, to note, the 2008.09 release is pretty stable, and I've been using it as a phone for a couple months without issues.
One thing I would like to see changed, is the developers community, more so, the way bugs are/have been handled. I've seen posts on the mailing list and bug tracker, where reports have been closed with a "works for me" reason. I also would like to see input from the community of users testing the device actually be taken into consideration.
2 issues have been raised and have been cause for much heated debate, 1 being the keyboard included in the OM stack, is pretty awful, and a great comprimise was given with a great keyboard that contained the best of both ideas (finger friendly, predictive, and qwerty), but was seemingly sluffed off by the heads of the group.
the second issue being the configuration program was stripped down because they felt they didn't want that sort of customization in the distro.
The lack of a Terminal program from the get go is pretty lame too, for a developer aimed device, the first thing needed is installing one, so why not just put it on there to begin with?
Lacking hardware of the current generation of cell phones I think is rather unimportant. I say this because I think the group felt it was best not to bite off more than they could chew. It would also mean having to reverse engineer the code needed for things like 3G (which from my memory isn't availible to any open source community).
I think that the project is going where it was intended, and despite the bad press, or lack of "features", the aim isn't to be a state of the art, iphone killer, blackberry qwerty typing machine. Its an initiative to provide an open alternative to such a closed technology market, where you have to trust and have faith in huge corporate machines that want money.
I paid the $400 for the phone, knowing it wasn't going to work right out of the box (though it actually made calls no problem from first try). I thought of it as a donation to the opensource community, and a chance to test something that hasn't been tried before.
and to its credit, it was thought up, released, and usable before android (which can run on it). I think people need to stop thinking its stable and ready for use, because it isn't, and they've made that clear.
-3g
-bigger screen or lower price.
or both.
Yeah, don't forget to add 2G to that list. It's not like it has even EDGE let alone 3G. GPRS = sad late-90s technology. I'm sure it's hard to implement these newfangled things because of IP laws, but unfortunately I won't buy something 10 years behind in tech just to make a statement.
I've had one for a couple of months now. I am happily running Qtopia on it, and periodically flash the official Openmoko distribution to see if phone calls are stable enough yet to start using that.
The software has been improving steadily since I started using the phone, and I don't doubt that we'll have a REALLY usable software stack in a few months. I don't worry too much about the software — even though there do remain some serious stability and usability issues, I think they'll all be worked out over time, and won't go into them in too much detail.
Hardware-wise, the one thing that I think is a really big, huge, horrible problem that should be at the top or near the top of things that need to be changed, is that currently the phone will not draw more than 100mA from USB or its AC charger (which plugs into the USB jack) until the OS is up and running and can detect that it is plugged into its AC adapter (which has a resistor between the ID pin and GND, so that the phone can recognize it) or that it has been enumerated by a USB host and is allotted 500mA. The idea is to be fully USB-compliant and never draw more current than allowed by a USB host.
Unfortunately, if the battery runs down completely (something that happens often, since the power management software is still incomplete) the phone won't be able to boot, since it needs more than 100mA to boot. It also doesn't charge the battery unless it's on, so if your battery is down, and you don't have another one, or some other suitable DC power source you can use to jump-start the phone (it must be attached directly to the battery contacts) then you're stuck. I've had to jump-start my phone probably four or five times, and I'm lucky that I have a Nokia phone sitting around to do that. (The battery is mechanically and electrically compatible with standard Nokia batteries; however the smart charge circuits are not compatible.)
Anyway, things like a sleeker form factor, faser data speeds, etc., would all be NICE things to have, but being able to boot or even charge the phone without a charged battery is ESSENTIAL if it is to be truly usable as a mobile device.
ITS THE DISTRO STUPID!!
First of all let me just say that I've been a Freerunner/NEO1973 user since day one .. still got 'em ticking away on the desk in front of me. But as a developer, I'm focusing almost entirely on iPhone3G and Android targets right now. Why is this?
Because the DISTRIBUTION POLITICS of Freerunner means that the only way to truly develop a customer-friendly app for the Freerunner is to build a full distribution oneself, and ship it to them on a MicroSD card. There are too many moving targets, and not enough focus on actually getting a developer-friendly OS out there and installed as a user base.
So, lets just wait until Round Three for the OpenMoko guys. I'll keep tracking the releases on my existing hardware, but developer-wise, the Freerunner is an all-or-nothing-hack-it-yourself platform more than it is ready for 3rd-party development economics..
Isn't it funny that the Open Moko Project has been around for a couple years now...
and that some other major company has picked up it's same business plan, but decided not to make a phone and just a mobile phone operatings system (dropped the G-Phone) and add all the millions of dollars that this company has, disregarding the original Open Source Phone,
Everyone wants an android phone.. ? Wow!
Kinda reminds me of what the iphone did with touch phones, it wasn't the first...
I need to take someone's great idea, get some venture capitalists to back me, and make a fortune!
The Radio for the Neorunner needs tobe 3G. In a market where the Iphone sucks unless your a fan boy, Android is coming out with basic bluetooth functions MISSING...the Open Moko could have been the phone the raise the bar beyond what the other two offer. None the less the FIC hardware is no better than the 50 millions iphone clones on ebay all running tri band GSM..straight out of 2000.
I makes so sense why this phone is not 3g...Cost? Not at 399....Availability of network space? Firmware....
Sad..simply sad..the reality is that if G1 takes off the Open Moko project will die..simply put..dead..two Linux platforms where one sucks (due to lack of innovation in the supporting hardware) and one doesn't....not very hard to see the answer there.
I know this may not be the time or the place, but can someone tell me how it functions on AT&T or a major cellular carrier? (I am about to switch to that AT&T, so I am really interested in this phone). I am curious Linux user, and I have read their wiki about compatability with certain SIM cards. Besides that, can anyone say if it is or is not reliable in the most basic of functionality (calls and SMS) with a national carrier on the eastern shoreboard 75% or 80% of the time? (I am in DC, so the more local the responses, obvious the better.)
C'm on, let's be honest!
This thing is undefendible.
If it wanted to be a toy for programmers it failed, coz the hardware sucks.
If it should have been a smartphone alternative it is designed and projected wrongly from the very start.
But if it was meant to be the ultimate rip off for geek/hipster wannabe, it has undoubtly been a roaring success.
I'm convinced that with off the shelf (or the net) components, a welder and some time on my hands I could come out with something better and cheaper than this thing.
THEN DO IT.
That is the attitude of the developers for this thing. If there's something we don't like about it, we code a better alternative. That is the natural evolution of software. Try doing that with your friggin' iPhone.
(Yes I have a freerunner and have been using it as my primary phone.)
For the most part it has been great. Though I am looking forward to the inevitable progression of the software stack and applications for this device now that more developers have climbed aboard. Just look at how far Ubuntu has come over the past 6 months, let alone the past year! I mean, hell, Dell sells it preloaded now!
I don't own it, nor I would buy one at this moment, but these are my thoughts.
First, the original question was "how would you change it?". Saying "hey, you miss the point, it is good because it's open" is not answering the question. And saying "yes it's ugly but you can design a case" is not answering the question. I already know the advantages and disadvantages of open, as no doubt the majority of buyers of this thing know. If I criticize the design, it's not intented as a bashing, or a complaint, but as a honest answer to the original question. I don't expect people to retaliate, because there's no attack. And I certainly need no one to get all worked up pointing the device's advantages to me.
Now, for the answers. If I had to settle on three things this is what I would change:
* Only GPRS for data in 2008 is, well, garbage. There's no way to make that look good or to be mild about it. Of course they will improve that, but right now, it is in the "glaring omissions" list. And by the way, the fact that the device supports 3G doesn't mean you "have to pay for that ridiculous data plan". This is about potential. A high end open system nowadays has to support 3G. Then you do as you wish and pay for whatever you think it's worth it, and use it where and when you want, or use it as a doorstopper, it's all up to you.
* For a device where you may have to use the command line every now and then, even expected to do so, it has no real keyboard and the screen is physically too small. The resolution is adequate, though.
* It IS ugly, guys! Look at it! Yes, better designs will be made eventually, and cases may help disguise it, and some people will like it the way it is now, but I think most of us can agree that it is ugly right now! Yes, that is something I would change.
On a side note, I hate the name Openmoko, but that's not the Freerunner's fault. Knowing that moco in Spanish means mucus does not help a bit.