Is it
Photokina time, or what? Joining the
host of
other camera manufacturers with sparkly fresh
announcements this week is none other than Leica, which just announced a
trio of new cams a few days back. This introduction, however, stands alone, and Leica's making some
pretty remarkably bold statements about its new S-system. The first device to take advantage is the 37-frickin'-megapixel S2, which sits between Canon's EOS 5D and EOS 1Ds MkIII in terms of body size. The company designed the camera to provide "the quality of medium format and the handling and flexibility of 35mm," and the outfit also has nine S-system lenses on tap. As for expectations? Leica says it'll perform "twice as fast as
Hasselblad H-series cameras," and if that wasn't straight-up enough, the firm's David Bell proclaimed that "[Leica] thinks it has the best professional camera system in the world with this."
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
posted Sep 22nd 2008 9:52AM
Yours for only half a mil.
It can't possibly be that much. They're comparing it in size to a pair of high-end Canon bodies and in function to a Hasselblad. My guess is $30K for the body.
The dual shutter system which includes the oft forgotten leaf system intrigues and delights me. Cool stuff!
the leaf-shutter isn't used today because of its flaws(slow, heavy, and cumbersome). Its really only good for studio-work since it allows for fast flash-sync speeds.
Theoretically, since the leaf-shutter mechanism is built into the lens and not the body, dSLR makers could make a leaf-shutter lens compatible with the modern dSLRs if they would support it. The real reason they probably don't is that modern electronic-shutters could do the same flash-sync speeds as leaf-shutters (the Nikon D70 being an example). The reason they don't implement a speed flash mode in their Live-view mode I don't understand.
This reply is to temple.
Almost all digital point and shoots use hybrid-leaf shutter. Look down the barrel of one and fire with a slow-ish shutter speed.
Good luck using it without that arm and leg that it'll cost you! Looking at it's still free, though, right?
They'll probably require a portion of your soul to touch it, though.
I wonder if they do trade in. I will give you my left nut for one =D.
" I will give you my left nut for one"
Why would anyone want your left nut?
whoever took this picture of the camera obviously wasn't using this camera because the resolution was too small to get the whole thing in frame
The Mark3 is a 21 megapixel camera. 31MP is a *much* larger file size.
They're referring to the physical size of the camera. It's between the 5D and the 1Ds Mark III in size. Not megapixels, which is 37. For a camera this size, that's remarkable.
Now, if Nikon were to come out with the rumored medium format rangefinder (rumored to be revealed Feb 9, 2009) then the photo world will have indeed been turned on its head with that and this camera.
Depending on price, I might just have to get one. I used Leicas for about 20 years. Nothing can touch them when it comes to lens design.
They were referring to the physical size of the camera, not the number of pixels in the sensor.
@ eric. good name. The only thing is that it's really not practical or even possible for studio photographers to use rangefinders, so the Leica is ideal.
Too bad it is hideous, and looks uncomfortable as all get out. I wouldn't shoot with that thing if it accepted every lens made since the start of time... I'm getting carpal tunnel just looking at it...
Would you like it better if they made it in colors for you?
Since there's no way you can afford it, not to worry.
Actually, that's pretty close to the shape of the Leica R8 and R9. I used an R8 for several years, and though it's a homely beast, it fells very nice in the hand. Easy to hold on to for sure.
But then I have rather large hands. And Leicas are heavy. No doubt about that. The R8 with motor drive and the 70-180 2.8 APO Elmarit R was one heavy outfit!
I wouldn't go quite THAT far but my first reaction too was: "this looks way too plain and cheap (as in crappy plastic cheap)". It's not a simple understated design which you'd expect to find in an ultraexpensive classy product. It looks like its outsides were designed by an engineer, not a designer. They can't afford to hire one, or what?
Ever held a Leica? You'd change your mind if you did.
Admittedly the pictures don't do them justice, but they're quite exquisite to hold.
Are you kidding?? This thing is beautiful!!
Is it the Kodak senor?
yeah KODAK!
Probably Dalsa CCD being that they are using their sensor in the M8 and they have a closer relationship. Also, being twice as fast as a medium-format means its still pretty damn slow compared to a modern dSLR. Both the Dalsa and Kodak CCDs can only go to ISO800 boosted (50-400ISO natively) and produce poor quality compared to the modern CMOS in terms of noise for anything about 200ISO.
But this Leica S2 is half the megapixels as the 75mp S1 they released in 1996.
Temple,
The S1 system is not 75MP. It produces images that are 5140 pixels x 5140 pixels. That's about 26.5 megapixels.
Maybe the files size on the S1 is 75MB, and that's where you're confused?
Sensor is by Fujitsu.
"which sits between Canon's EOS 5D and EOS 1Ds MkIII in terms of size"
how do you come up with that? Leica is 37MP, 1DSMKIII is 21.1MP. Leica sensor is 45x30, 1DSMKIII is 36x24.
This camera sounds awesome. Leica (sorry, had to do it) digital equivalent of my old Pentax 67 in terms of handling. I might just have to give up my P30 for this baby!
AH! you took that quote straight from the article! You should have been a little more clear about the size of "what".
They mean BODY size.
I wonder if the devil will do a chash exchange for my soul?
That there's fightin' talk, sonny. And we kinda like it.
I've been around Leicas the early 60's when I would 'sneak out' my father's Leicas when my parents would be out to dinner. It has a been a satisfying and at times very frustrating 30 plus years of watching them stumble, change hands, and leave great designs on the drawing boards. Oh, but what nice optics!
This literally is a re-birth of the company, not just a new camera. Yes, it will cost a left k'nutsen, but they also will be doing some major things with the R system. So for the photo industry this is good news - and hopefully more new creative ideas will be born from others as well. It's a great day for Leica.
Leica is very lucky to have Dr. Kaufman as the owner. He's in it for the long term. The company could lose money for years and survive.
Leica invented 35mm photography and the profession of photojournalism in the process.
It would be amazing if they reinvent the high-end DSLR market. At the very least, Nikon and Canon will have to take notice and stay ahead. (Except in terms of optics where they can't possibly outdo the Wizards of Wetzlar.)
I'm not nit-picking, but the MicroFourThirds tag is confusing me. are you saying that this isn't a DSLR, but a rangefinder?
I thought MFT always removed the mirror so you were left with a rangefinder or composing through the LCD.
I've got an old Leica R8, and its possibly one of the best SLR's I've ever used.
This beasty sounds awesome.
But will it blend?
Any bets on price? I know that this is one of those "if you have to ask you can't afford it" type pieces but I am just curious if they will even come down on this side of the PhaseOne. My bet is no. $50K+
The only price I've seen so far is 25,000 to 30,000 euros.
Hn..it would be really awesome if leica did trickle the R-series SLR down [it mentions in the article the R system isnt dead yet, so im guessing there will be a R dSLR] price wise to a point where you could really afford it [Although, I think the body wasnt expensive, just those ^%&^$ing lenses...which yeh, I know, THEYRE WORTH IT just REALLY expensive]
Always wanted a leica, always will...I'll get one some day I know that...just not sure how I'm gonna pay for it!
Great camera for sure from Leica and had they realized that you buy into a system not a body they could come to the their senses.
The article keeps talking that they want to go into cameras used for location shooting (where Nikon and Canon are the main players).
They need to realize that if you are a Canon user you already have a boat load of $$$ EF L glass, 2 5Ds and 2 5DMKIIs on the books soon to be ordered.
With Canon releasing the 5DMII with 21MP @ $2,700 and most photogs having a nice collection of L glass the choice is easy.
12MP on the original 5D was more than enough for people (and if you wanted more Genuine Fractals was your friend).
21MP on the 5DMKII @ $2700 is going to make it extremely hard for any other company to shift users from Canon.
The 5DMKII is also much more versatile cameara with much better response at super high ISO.
Going to Leica would mean paying a significant premium for the body and having to get a new Leica lens lineup.
If you are running a business simply running the numbers and figuring out how long it will take for this S2 Leica to get amortized should be enough to scare anyone with a business head on their shoulders.
For the camera collectors and other people (with money to burn) that just want to say they have one I'd say go right ahead and buy at least 4 S2 bodies per user!!!
As stated before, it seems Kaufman is in for the long haul. Old guys might keep their Nikon and Canon systems, but new, young photographers are being born and starting every day.
This is fantastic news. The more manufacturers get onboard and competitive, the better. Competition is a good thing. I hope Mamiya releases a similiar product, as they are my personal favorite in the high-end realm. I would love to see a "clash of the titans" so to speak.
Does it also make chili and fries?
Side note, it's going to be about 43.4k
Is there an engadget feed without cameras?
Yeah, and I want to know if there's an Engadet feed without a sense of humor?
I'll decide what's funny, not some editor in New York thank you very much.
The new 5D Mark II will change what people buy, even the pros.
You think? I was hoping for something incredibly groundbreaking with the 5D Mk2 as I've been waiting for a 5D successor for ages... but I'm feeling pretty unimpressed.
Yes, HD video is handy...
Full frameness is lovely...
etc
But nothing truly groundbreaking.
The new Canon 5D Mark II will in 2 years be obsolete - not the best Canon has to offer - and not in the same league with the S2.
TF -
Have you seen the sample shots from the mkII? Have you seen the noiseless images at ISO 1600 & ISO 3200? What about the "acceptable" amounts of noise in ISO 6400?
What were you expecting? A bj?
i have a friend who is selling his Canon 1D Mark III to get a 5D Mark II.
Well we know who's going to be included in the Engadget Fugly Awards.
I only hope they keep coming out with ridiculous cameras like this...
with the technology allowing such significant improvements on such a regular basis, it'll put the price of less powerful but still supremely PRACTICAL digital SLRs so low that even I'll be able to afford to be a pro
That is an outrageously ugly looking camera. Probably pretty cool. I'm hoping it isn't overhyped. It would be nice to see Leica do something amazing/revolutionary again, rather than resting on the success they had 70 years ago.
32MP is not even close to medium format, even 645 let alone 6x7 Nice marketing mumbojumbo though. Can't they just hold their breath for 3-5 more years until the sensors actually *do* reach MF ability? Its no shame to be kicking the can down the road... not going to get there in one leap.
32mp (and therefore 37mp) easily beats 645 film and should match 6x7, based on my experience with a Mamiya ZD camera which is "only" 22mp and whichbhas served as a worthy MF film replacement. Its also not only about pure resolving power, but other issues like dynamic range, versatility, convenience, all good reasons why you'd use an S2 or other MF digital solution ahead of film.
My only issue with the S2 at this stage is the possible price, given it will have to compete with established digital backs / camera combos.
My only issue with highly expensive toys is that I'd be too scared to take them out, do anything out-of-the-ordinary with them, and in general kill all creativity while babying them constantly.
So this product is obviously not for me.
That's a description of a typical Leica owner. :P
I remember adding a Hasselblad system to my use. Not even a D700 can top the giddy feeling I had about the system and the quality. This may not be groundbreaking, but sure has a place. Check the wedbsite, pretty informative. And yes, looks like it will be comfortable to handle.
As for the price, there are plenty of fashion/design who would be happy to move to this.
I own 2 pairs of Leica binoculars and one APO Spotting Scope. The new Leica Scopes 65mm & 85mm--due out soon-- will be $3100 and $4100 respectively-- This is about $1,000 more per scope than anyone else!
My humble opinion is that they will price themselves out of the market. Swarovski and Zeiss have awesome optics, too, and are much less expensive.
If this new Leica camera is being priced in like manner, which it sounds like it is----Leica may be in for a rude awakening as to its market acceptability.
By the way, my cameras are Nikon D200 &300 with 200-400mm AFS VR, 500mm AFS VR
70-200 AFS VR, 105 micro VR, 200mm micro nikkor & 12-24 f4, so I am not a cheapskate
Well, I will test it for free;)... Technical data (to the date) sounds untrue and however, I think it is unlogical to Leica AG to produce something which will (once again) be not compatible with the previous models.
...but who knows- this is the "last time" to change and show what the company really is capable to produce (in co-operation with phase one)...DMR/R9 was not a bestseller ...so we will see...
One piece of news that helps all of us that have Canon EOS is that....Finally Zeiss will be selling lens for canon DSLR's. Not Leica, but a bir closer....
What a beautiful camera.
For all you Canon and Nikon shooters who take gleeful pride in snidely bashing Leica and who cling with sweaty, desperate fingers to the notion that the 1Ds MK III and the D3 are the pinnacle of digital imaging....
I'm going to say something now and it's going to hurt you. I realize that I'm stabbing a knife right into your chewy, gooey heart with this, but it's for your own good.
Ready?
There are in this world photographers, photographic situations, and photographic clients who demand image quality better than anything anyone can produce using any product made by Canon or Nikon.
Period.
I know you don't want to hear that there's an entire echelon of gear above yours for image quality, but your defensive bleatings have started to make my hair hurt, so just remember that you earned this little spanking.
I know you like to remain curled in your bubble of rationalization, thinking "my gear is just as good. Really it is." You think that if you keep saying it often enough, you'll be able to convince yourself, but I'm sorry to tell you that you're not convincing anyone who really knows. You merely sound like the hick who brags in an overly-loud voice to anyone who will listen -- and many who won't -- that his Pontiac Fiero really is every bit as good as a Lamborghini.
Yes, the Leica is expensive, as are the digital medium format systems. The best of the best always costs a premium. A Lamborghini is a better car than a Chevy Camaro. Is it six times as good, as simplistic pricing logic would indicate? No, of course. But that also doesn't change the fact that it IS better.
Right about now, you're probably thinking that I'm a Leica owner or Hasselblad shooter just looking to rub it in. I'm not. I shoot Canon glass on a Kodak slr/c. Why? Because it's the best that I can afford right now, too.
Still, I don't have that juvenile need to defend my ego by pretending that what I can afford is the best there is. I'm not going to dismiss the awesome image quality that results from the products of Leica (and Hasselblad, and Mamiya,...) just to make myself feel better any more than I'm going to nervously insist that Payless shoes are as good as Asics, Schrade knives as good as Benchmade, Colt .45s as good as Kimber.
Whether or not I can ever afford gear that's the best of the best, I'm glad it exists and I'm glad that some companies fight the trend toward making all-purpose tools that are OKAY for any job and instead focus on making tools that are the BEST for specific jobs. Quality over cost. Quality over affordability even. But Quality over everything else.
Chris,
You hit the nail exactly on the head! This camera is a breakthrough; imagine bringing medium format quality into the field in a compact sized waterproof body. This camera system leapfrogs anything available from Canon, Nikon and everyone else. These ridiculous comments about it being ugly are shallow and stupid and just miss the point of this system. It’s a professional tool for a professional photographer, it’s free of gimmicks (live view, movie recording etc) and anything else that does not contribute to capturing the ultimate quality images. Leica is making a bold move with the S2 system; a very impressive landmark design.
.....
"Nobody Special @ Sep 22nd 2008 3:02PM
The new Canon 5D Mark II will in 2 years be obsolete - not the best Canon has to offer - and not in the same league with the S2."
---
The 5D won't be obsolete in two years so I dont know how you worked that out.
- This Camera Does seem sumptuous, but I doubt I will ever be able to justify buying one.
recommendedreading.blacktechnicolor.
It's a marketing game, the same one used for any technology...each year industries release a product slightly more advanced, maybe "groundbreaking" for that era. It happens with computers (I got a 10 MHz, 12 MHz,...now a quad-4 2.4GHz), each one a must-have to keep up with the competition. Memory systems, same thing...from 256K at $80 a pop to 4 Gigs for less than a hundred. It's a money-making game for the technology industry, and professionals can pay the highest prices to stay competitive. I'm sticking with Canon, I own their lenses...THUD!!! I would switch to Leica's S system, but I don't know what it'll do better in 2 years when Canon's next "groundbreaking"-lens compatible 100 Mp, dslr debuts. OK, I'm kidding about 100 Mp, but in two years the $30K S2 will be a dinosaur compared to the latest Canon. (Maybe I'm a prophet & 100 Mp is the late 2010 announcement).
So...can someone convince me the S2 is worth the investment? Any Leica reps want to try?
Price?
This is what I found posted on blog.wired.com
"The price? Seriously, don't ask. You're sure? OK. €30,000 for the body, which translates to $45,000."
Good timing announcing this new Leica S2 as the world economy is on the skids.
Maybe this whee some of the $7 billion "recovery" money will go.
So I should upgrade from my Canon AE-1?
According to Leica the S2 is the flagship of a new series of cameras, Leica intends to use the technology it developed for the S2 to produce other Pro and semi-pro cameras, so more affordable, and flexible digital Leicas seem likely within the following two years, lets hope this Camera is a success, and does for Leica what the D3 and D300 did for Nikon.
"The new Canon 5D Mark II will in 2 years be obsolete - not the best Canon has to offer - and not in the same league with the S2."
You really can't compare a 5D MII with an S2 they are utterly different cameras intended for different purposes. People claiming the 5D MII is a better choice, or that Leica is have both missed the point and sound rather foolish to me. A Plague on both your houses!
The original 5D is not outdated, have a look on flikr, you will a range of 5D images from dull to amazing. It goes to show you either have an eye for photography or you don't-a 5D in the right hands has the ability to wow-just I'm sure like the D700.