RED Scarlet pulled: "We have a new vision"

Looks like the HD video-capable Canon 5D Mark II and Nikon D90 had quite an impact at RED headquarters -- company president Jim Jannard just posted a note saying that the upcoming Scarlet 3K camera is "all different now" because "the market has changed." That's particularly interesting because Jannard's also mentioned that RED's working on a video-capable DSLR and recently pointed out that the D90's CMOS sensor tech leads to "jelly movement" when shooting video -- a problem RED solved long ago with the RED ONE's proprietary CMOS sensor, so we're guessing a few of these threads are coming together. We'll see when we see -- if RED produces anything within the price spectrum of the D90 and 5D Mark II, it'll shake things up pretty significantly.

Read - "Wipe your minds of the past announced Scarlet"
Read - Jannard points out the D90's "jelly" video

[required @ Sep 22nd 2008 7:51PM]

Their PR machine is set on rinse.

[Billy Fiul @ Sep 22nd 2008 7:54PM]

The problem with the 5D Mark II is that it captures a maximum of 4GB per video clip. In the highest quality, this is only about 12 minutes. This limitation makes the video feature more of a novelty than anything and may be a deal breaker for anyone wanting to cover live events.

[Michael Scrip @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:10PM]

If Canon was interested in long form recording, they would have a hard drive add-on. Or people could just use them as DSLRs and just take the occasional video clip.

Some hard drive capture devices such as the FireStore FS-4 have a clip length of 2GB, due to a FAT 32 file system. But, the clips automatically spill over to another clip so you can record until you fill up the drive... 40GB to 100GB.

[required @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:27PM]

Just throwing this out there but scenes rarely breach 12 minutes.

[Reader @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:54PM]

Was going to say the same thing as required. Really, filming for 12 minutes straight would be pretty long anyway, though the ability to go over that would be nice.

[kadajawi @ Sep 23rd 2008 4:14AM]

Film reels are usually 11 minutes long, and they shoot feature films with that. So it's quite similar to shooting on film.

[trilobite @ Sep 23rd 2008 5:00AM]

You obviously never shot a movie.
Nobody needs more than 4 minutes for one shot. A 35mm roll has about 4min. So with 12min its really great. Even on the RedONE you have to change the HDD (and more often the battery)...

[Billy Fiul @ Sep 28th 2008 4:11PM]

You jackasses must have missed the part where I said "live events." Most conferences, concerts, and sporting events last longer than 12 minutes, and you would want to shoot continuously. Of course 12 minutes is long enough for a movie.

Learn to read, retards.

[Hex Trope @ Sep 22nd 2008 7:55PM]

Looking at the RED forums it would appear that the RED ONE also suffers from the rolling shutter problem. I was under the impression that this is just the product using a CMOS image sensor which reads out sequentially over the exposure time.

[Ryan Valle @ Sep 22nd 2008 10:37PM]

The issue RED is addressing is more of the jelly affects you see with CMOS sensors. Rolling shutters is somethign they havent solved, but hopefully, its something they would do in the near future.

[tekdroid @ Sep 22nd 2008 7:56PM]

That jelly vid... interesting.
Obviously some work to be done with CMOS sensors.

Still, Nikon has product and red doesn't. So it's all talk until they release.

[Mike V @ Sep 22nd 2008 7:59PM]

Seems a bit rich RED calling Nikon out for CMOS global shutter artifacts when this is a problem that the RED One has.

[Skyride @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:04PM]

Argh, RED annoy me to no end with this. They are all talk. Given that the one good camera they have released (pun intended) is VERY good, thats still only one product. The One is an awesome piece of kit. Although I need a 2k cam myself (3k would be fine, just downscale on final export) and this looks awesome.

[Emu @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:11PM]

1) Scarlet is being redesigned.

2) The name will remain the same (Scarlet).

3) An announcement of new specs will come at some point prior to NAB.

4) RED is aiming to have working models of Scarlet at NAB.

5) RED is aiming to ship Scarlet sometime after NAB.

6) RED is aiming to fulfill initial orders before FALL of 2009.

http://www.scarletuser.com/showthread.php?t=1054

[Sharone @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:20PM]

Jannard is such a scam artist. Until recently you couldn't even edit the files from his camera on PC, and he never mentions that fact on the main page. So buyers don't know when they make this purchase.You'll find that information hidden in some thread on his fan forum.

And the image quality has only become barely acceptable with build 16.

And their sensor tech is nowhere near Canon's.

I still give him credit for doing what Canon should have done half a decade ago. He'll force Canon and Sony to evolve quicker. But his Red products are not worth buying, if you must use them rent them.

[why not the LS2LS7? @ Sep 22nd 2008 8:48PM]

He's lying when he says RED ONE doesn't have rolling shutter artifacts. It originally brought the issue to the fore.

http://www.freshdv.com/2007/12/reds-rolling-shutter-and-flash-strobes.html

I do agree with Jannard that eliminating rolling shutter artifacts is the next frontier. The company that can do it (and perhaps Canon already did) will score big in the pro market and also the consumer market (all consumer HD camcorders have rolling shutter issues).

[Aaron @ Sep 22nd 2008 9:14PM]

I am getting a 5D mark II but let me tell you, video was not a selling point. I will NEVER use it; if i want video I'll use my HVX-200 or XL2 not my DSLR I am really disappointed in this new development with DSLR's It's nice on the little point and shoot cameras but not my SLR.

[why not the LS2LS7? @ Sep 22nd 2008 10:29PM]

If what we've seen so far is correct, you'd do better to use the 5D2 instead of the HVX-200, as the HVX-200 has big rolling shutter artifacts, the 5D2 doesn't seem to. The XL-2 would be a good choice, since it uses a CCD, it doesn't have any rolling shutter artifacts at all.

[ledhed @ Sep 23rd 2008 1:44AM]

@ LS2

The HVX has a CCD... Possibly thinking of the EX-1?

[monkey @ Sep 23rd 2008 5:03AM]

@aaron

disappointed about DSLRs shooting video? It doesn't impact the stills side of the cameras in any way (witness the glowing reports about the D90 image quality), but the technology is (almost) here that allows for that exact same image quality, full sensor and interchangable lenses, all to be applied to video.

My worry is nikon/canon investing too much time in codecs and storage, all they need to do is provide a raw HDMI feed and leave it to someone else to solve. There's existing solutions for capturing lossless HDMI, and companies like cineform are promising to get that into a small form factor. Its a tricky problem, one I think suited to specialist companies. Camera manufacturers should stick to what they do best, developing better sensors and lenses.

[Justin O'Neill @ Sep 22nd 2008 9:55PM]

@Sharone

You could not edit footage from a Panasonic HVX200 when it first came out either. Apple has just done an amazing job at supporting the newest cameras.

[solmar @ Sep 23rd 2008 1:22AM]

Convergence is what's happening to everything, like it or not. Being a purist in the modern world is going to make you among the minority, and will make your choice of products very limited indeed. Convergence doesn't mean that what something does originally will suffer, it just means it will be able to do more. Having video capability doesn't mean the stills will suffer... in fact, by all indications, the stills have improved quite a bit. What it does mean is that for people who will use the video function (and that's a lot of people), they won't have to bring along another very expensive camcorder. Also, from the user experience posted, the 5DII has *vastly* superior low light performance compared to the pro camcorders mentioned.
About storage capacity, many pro camcorders can't record more than 20-30 minutes on a single standard medium (flash/tape). That's normal, since most single shoots don't take more time than that. Normally only amateurs will record hour-long continuous static shots. Not only that, CF cards are getting up to 100GB sizes, so if you want to do several shoots, it's still possible.

[Rick @ Sep 23rd 2008 6:52AM]

To quote jessica simpson - i dont know what it is, BUT I WANT IT!

[Scott @ Sep 23rd 2008 6:56AM]

LOL. This is classic. I guess 'All Talk' Jannard is having a bit of trouble actually producing a real product - what a surprise. I guess that ULTRAMAN EXTREME...IUM...ISH SENSOID SENSORIUM SENSOR!111!!...at REAL MAN 24P, not that baby 30P camera is a little behind schedule. First Nikon, now Canon, came out with something better first. Back to the drawing board...errr...marketing spiel board again.

Yesh, Red is a joke. They have one product that was talked about and talked about and when finally released had problems that weren't fixed until the 16th firmware update (and in a sense still haven't been totally fixed). Jim disparages any poster who actually questions wtf they are doing, puts down Canon and Nikon for actually having (heaven forbid) a real product out. Good work there Jim and Red! Meh, wake me up in 2011 when they actually have a product out, and even then it will probably be too little too late.

[Sharone @ Sep 23rd 2008 1:15PM]

Jannard became rich selling Oakley sunglasses (and then the Oakley company itself).

So RED's practices and general attitude should not come as a surprise.

[davec @ Sep 23rd 2008 8:14AM]

The shutter skew (jelly effect) on the Red used to be pretty bad but a firmware update (13 or 14 I think) quite a long time ago managed to successfully minimize it. In comparison the D90's skew is atrocious. 95% of the posts about Red on this site are completely innaccurate, made by people with no direct experience of the camera.

[Sebastien @ Sep 23rd 2008 4:08PM]

to me, RED looks like vaporware...

[josephhutson @ Oct 31st 2008 10:35AM]

Since when can youa ctually see vaporware?

[Tom Dewitt @ Sep 26th 2008 5:25PM]

I think this would be really cool. This guy proposes adding HDR capture to Scarlet.

The Future of Scarlet

I'm sure the RED Posse will pull off something cool.

[josephhutson @ Oct 31st 2008 10:37AM]

Just wait til November 13th. Then you guys will see. But then, you will REALLY think Jim's a scam artist.