Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge electric vehicle prototypes get outed
By Darren Murph 
posted September 24th 2008 7:27AM
posted September 24th 2008 7:27AM
posted September 24th 2008 7:27AM
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The Volt isn't ugly. It's just so freaking vanilla that it's practically invisible.
The Volt is designed to be very aerodynamic, something important for a vehicle designed for max efficiency. Look at the Prius, the things is ugly as sin, but it gets great MPG.
I can't look at the Prius. It hurts my eyes.
Yeah, say what you want about the Volt (I think it's handsome), but "ugly as sin"? Really? Ugly would actually have to be actively offensive, and I don't see how it's design can offend anyone, honestly. At the worst, I would think that it's what Bill said, completely plain and vanilla.
the Prius looks like a japanese potatoe
those are rsx lights
Hello there Lotus Europa
Apparently:
http://www.sweetauto.net/gallery/files/1/2007-Lotus-Europa-FA-1024x768.jpg
The body of that Dodge looks familiar - Lotus Europa?
Answered and asked?
At least it doesn't look like all the crap being shoveled out currently as "electric" or "efficient". If I have to drive an electric car and get rid of the sound of that tuned exhaust and all the fun bits their are to driving, I'd rather drive something that looks like it belongs on the track instead of a square parking spot. I absolutely HATE the Prius and these small "stand up" cars. I saw one on the street the other day. Essentially, you take a straight back chair, put tiny wheels on it and wrap it in metal and glass and a small engine. They are tall, top heavy, and definitely not made to take a corner.
*duplicate comment? (I really hate this blog software)
I wonder how much of a discount Canadians and Americans will receive on these cars?
I assume we will get a discount considering our tax-payers have bailed-out... I mean donated so much money to the industry to catch up with foreign companies.
Way back when... Chrysler was loaned money by the Federal Government. As far as I'm aware, it was all paid back.
If you weren't expecting something extraordinary, you would think the Volt is a pretty nice looking car (because it is).
he's pandering to the haters
/me goes to dictionary.com
*types champing
*hits enter
Yup, definitely chomping...
Well dammit, if I can't depend on dictionary.com, what CAN I depend on??
my bad...
@ FreeRange...
I am glad someone out there is kind enough to help the rest of us lazy people out by actually looking something up and giving us the results. :) Thank you kind sir! I salute you!
competition ftw!
Chrysler.. Cerebus. How amusing you are, in your "me too!" mindset..
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/between-the-lines-chryslers-electric-vehicle-announcement/
Sing it with me: Every party needs a pooper, that's why we invited you...
C'mon. People find anything to complain about. Who cares if the design is derivative? It's NOT ugly, and that's the important part... or are you happy enough with the ugly Prius and the plain Volt? Not every one wants a boring-looking car like those.
Chrysler shows us that electric vehicles can look like everyday vehicles. The minivan doesn't look like some melted blob of plastic -- it looks like their regular minivan. The Jeep doesn't look like a Chinese knockoff -- it looks like a Jeep.
There are obvious design cues in the yellow Dodge EV but who cares? Chrysler has the foresight enough to make a good-looking EV. That in and of itself is reason to celebrate.
I don't think any of the chry-co's concepts here looks that bad. I particularly like the styling of the lotu..er, "dodge ev". Good looking concept. Not as sleek as the Tesla, but still nice. The jeep's "electric motors in the wheels" idea is intriguing, but not practical in an off-roader. At least, not for anyone serious about off-roading. Dry land only, maybe. The jeep still looks like a jeep. Good job. The minivan is still a minivan.
As far as the volt and the prius, I think the volt definitely has the upper hand styling-wise. We have yet to see how it will perform (on road and in the marketplace), however. It certainly isn't enough to save General Motors, let alone the world. It's a hype machine, a marketing tool, the same as these three chry-co concepts (only one of which is even considered for production at all). The prius *is* ugly. Hideous. Not to mention it doesn't actually perform that well, real world. Many small clean diesels do far better, in mileage and performance.
The prius and the volt are hybrids, if somewhat different than each other in execution. These chry-co concepts are (for all intents and purposes) electric drive only. Where's the battery technology to make them viable? I mean truly viable? Not "40 miles on a charge" viable. I mean "charge it once every two weeks / every 500 miles" viable. It dosn't exist yet.
This is vapor ware.
Perhaps you should notice the fact that the Minivan and the Jeep are currently produced models that have been modified to work with the electric drive systems. I think that's part of the big point is that they're going to be easier and cheaper to produce because they're both already mass market vehicles. I hardly think it's vapor ware either, considering they have been working on electric stuff for a while and they're working with GE and have a plan to have some in the field for testing in '09. Of course, it could all end up like the turbine car, but I think electric vehicle technology is almost mature enough for mass marketing, at least as it's been done here.
Elloh, if you're too blind to see that the Dodge EV is just a mule for the technology, then there is no hope for you.
There is a difference between Lotus cars and Lotus engineering and many vehicles have been designed around lotus platforms as mule concepts for drivetrain components or other features. Is it Chrysler's fault that Lotus built such a formidible platform? They aren't taking anything from Tesla- not even hints. The production car (if there ever is one) will, guaranteed, look different, and be on their own platform.
Well, sure. Isn't that all we've got right now, including the volt and the prius? Just "mules" for testing technology. As far as electric vehicle technology goes, we are still in our infancy. We're crawling around in the dark without a zippo, much less a floodlight. You can have all the tech mules you want, but without a proper infrastructure in place to support their eventual rise to the mainstream, they mean nothing in and of themselves. I'm glad we're trying, I really am. I just don't see this tech going anywhere until the grid can support it, and until we have a major leap in energy storage technology.
Diesel may be part of a short term solution but it is not going to help much in conserving oil or reducing dependency on foreign oil, which is the real problem. Diesel requires more oil to produce than gasoline does. Electric cars have energy storage problems for sure. But developing the powertrains now may help speed battery development for the near future. With electric cars and nuclear energy we could sooner rather than later eliminate our need for foreign oil until hydrogen powered cars become viable. And when hydrogen becomes available for cars the auto companies can bolt it in to existing electric cars.
No, electric cars aren't the best solution today but they are part of the solution today and likely the ultimate solution tomorrow.
So what exactly is your argument, Elloh?
Another crossfire, I wish.....
Whoa, great idea, an electric Jeep! Because what we want is to short out our engine every time we drive through a puddle that's deeper than the wheels. Hybrid, yes, Toyota have managed it with their new Landcruisers, but not full-electric.
Mind you though, people who buy this are probably never going to take this off road, or indeed anywhere beyond a city limits. Which begs the question; Why hasn't Hummer got in on this pointless electic engines in their new H2?
Please read any number of articles about electric cars shorting out before posting.
Nevermind, you're right. It's just a bunch of uninsulated connections snaking underneath the car - and they can't be used in the rain, either.
Yes, because we all know hosing down our engine bay results in death. 12 volts DC FTW
You fail to understand, I have a 4WD, and I off-road often, thankfully it has never happened to me, l but I have had freinds who have lost their cars because of water getting into their batteries, and even into their electronics like power windows and CD players. I've lost a head unit, and several speakers.
Jeeps, espeically the more barebones cars like the Wrangler, have always been low on electrical devices, because of the implications of rolling your car in two feet of mud. Or going through a puddle that's nearly as deep as your roof.
And as you say, electric cars can drive in the rain, and are insulated. But murky, stagnant water has a horrible way of getting into places that it shouldn't be in. As for rain, it tends to fall DOWN, on to the car. Driving through a small lake is slightly different, it tends to be EVERYWHERE, including inside. It's even worse when it's saltwater. And believe me, I bet a lot of people who buy something like this are going to be spending most of their time 4WDriving on the beach.
I won't even get started on low-range gearboxes, transfer cases, and the impliclations therein. They're hard enough to implement on a petrol or diesel engine, let alone an electric.
The fact is, a completely electric system does not have the ruggedness to wistand the utter destruction that all but the lightest off-roading does to a 4WD. Not yet, anyway. Hybrid, same problems, but less so, because you can still rely somewhat on the petrol engine. Hydrogen, sign me up! I'm not a complete nutter, hell-bent on destroying the environment, I just have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen if you took a bunch of batteries and immersed them in water, then mud, then both at the same time. As for your arguement Chris, yes, you can hose down the engine bay. But you don't then drive your car into a pool and leave it there for an hour while you wait for help and a winch to arrive.
Okay, look, I definitely over-exaggerated when I said short out, but all my other arguments stand. I do NOT want to have to go and replace my entire interior when all my instuments become clogged with mud, or short circuted because my door seal didn't work as well as it should have (and it's happened before, believe me)
Sorry to do it like this, it's just easier
"l but I have had friends who have lost their cars because of water getting into their batteries, and even into their electronics like power windows and CD players. I've lost a head unit, and several speakers."
The problem here isn't the water in the batteries and shouldn't (but may) be the power windows. It's the more likely the CD players and speakers. Often the CD player is run straight off the ignition with out a fuse. So if the CD play get's water in it and short's, then so dose the battery. Unless your speakers are marine grade they will get destroyed in many ways by water. Even marine grade can normally only take quick splashes. Fuse your head deck properly and you should still be able to drive once you get it back on it's wheels.
"Jeeps, especially the more barebones cars like the Wrangler, have always been low on electrical devices, because of the implications of rolling your car in two feet of mud. Or going through a puddle that's nearly as deep as your roof."
No, it's cost of providing something heavy duty and the added weight it provides. Marine audio equipment rated only as splash proof with no warranty for marine environments normally has a premium price tag. Then there is the military grade wiring and heat shrink wrap for the complete loom. The main implication of rolling in two feet of mud is mud in the snorkel. The old Wranglers where mainly petrol. That means a 12 or 24 volt battery. Like you said, their fine for a deep water cruse.
"And as you say, electric cars can drive in the rain, and are insulated. But murky, stagnant water has a horrible way of getting into places that it shouldn't be in. As for rain, it tends to fall DOWN, on to the car. Driving through a small lake is slightly different, it tends to be EVERYWHERE, including inside. It's even worse when it's saltwater. And believe me, I bet a lot of people who buy something like this are going to be spending most of their time 4WDriving on the beach."
Look at the Mars Rover's. They are fully electric. Their solar powered with back up batteries. They both survived a huge dust storm that lasted about a fortnight and where able to drive afterward. All modern cruse ships use electric motors for thrust.
"I won't even get started on low-range gearboxes, transfer cases, and the implications therein. They're hard enough to implement on a petrol or diesel engine, let alone an electric."
Electric motors, when designed for 4WDing, won't need low range gear boxes. How about four wheel individual drive instead of a transfer case? And if the designer is feeling lasy, they can always bolt it up to a conventional set up. Tesla's gear box problem was to do with their OED and not the concept.
About your door seal. Is it actually sealed at the bottom? I know mine aren't. This is getting off topic. PM me if you wanna discuss more. I have uni in 6 hours so I have to hit the hay.
I think a big reason why this concept doesn't have the 4 wheel motors is because they're looking at things that are more current production ready. It's easier to put an electric motor into the current drive train then to develop the 4 wheel motor system, which will take longer. There's also the fact that an motor in each wheel increases unsprung mass, which would probably need some hefty suspension redesigning.
Don't feel bad, honestly, I actually enjoy the fact that we are having a proper discussion using point/counterpoint on Engadget, rather than the usual 'I'm right, you're wrong because I say so' fanboyism that usually is attached to articles. But I digress, my rebuttle:
"The problem here isn't the water in the batteries and shouldn't (but may) be the power windows. It's the more likely the CD players and speakers. Often the CD player is run straight off the ignition with out a fuse. So if the CD play get's water in it and short's, then so dose the battery. Unless your speakers are marine grade they will get destroyed in many ways by water. Even marine grade can normally only take quick splashes. Fuse your head deck properly and you should still be able to drive once you get it back on it's wheels."
This is true, and my head units I'm proud to say are all properly fused and as a result, I haven't actually lost car funtionality because of a short circut, plenty of scares though.
"Look at the Mars Rover's. They are fully electric. Their solar powered with back up batteries. They both survived a huge dust storm that lasted about a fortnight and where able to drive afterward. All modern cruse ships use electric motors for thrust."
Again, I fully understand, and even agree with you up to a point on this. But there is a glaring factor that you forgot to take into account; Price. Like in your previous paragraph, you said that high-end equipment is exactly that: High end. The mars rover, and indeed all specialised vehicles, cost often in the hundreds of thousands, and in the case of that particular rover, in the hundreds of millions to develop and build. Now, I dunno about some people, but I'm sporting a two-door, four-cylinder Suzuki Vitara, nearly 13 years old at this point. Don't get me wrong, it's a great car, and the best little Fourby you could hope to have, but even after all the modifications that I have (and will at some point) put on, it's still probably only worth about ten to fifteen grand AUD. That's not a lot, even by car standards. A decent condition two-door Wrangler, around the same age and condition, is still only going to set you back perhaps ten, to twelve thousand AUD. Even if you don't want second hand, a brand new Wrangler unlimited, fully specced, will only set you back just under fourty-six thousand AUD (Keep in mind, I'm using the Wrangler as my example car for several reasons 1) It's probably the most rugged Jeep in existance, and 2) It appears to be a Wrangler Unlimited that is the EV concept car) .
"Electric motors, when designed for 4WDing, won't need low range gear boxes. How about four wheel individual drive instead of a transfer case? And if the designer is feeling lasy, they can always bolt it up to a conventional set up. Tesla's gear box problem was to do with their OED and not the concept."
Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point, but you also have to keep in mind that Chrysler are probably not going to develop a specially designed motor for off-roading, espeically since, and I made this point in my first post, most people who buy this are not going to use it for off-roading, so what it's going to be is that electric van, in Jeep's clothing. Which is why I pointed out that it would be less than ideal for off-roading in the first place.
Again, your idea about 4-wheel indiviual drive is not a bad one, but expensive to impliment, and very hard to use in certain situations. I assume that this Jeep EV is going to have ESP, rather than locking differentials, like in the current Jeep lineups. If this is the case, than independantly turning wheels would almost ruin whatever traction it gains from the ESP, the main problem is, it's hard to create a mechanical system to deliver power seperately to all four wheels while keeping tourqe and power in check. The only real mechanical solution is a locking differential, and if it had one of those, than individual power going to each wheel is all but useless.
As for my door seal, they are sealed at the bottom, but even the best seals fail, depressingly regularly
Feel free to re-reply, when you have the chance, After all, this 'forum' isn't exactly in real-time, and I recieve an Email everytime you reply regardless.
It's 3 day's old now so it's practically private now.
A properly fused head deck, in your case, would require both the yellow and the red wire to be fused (ignition and source [battery] wires). Normally installers just rely on the head decks fuses. I don't know if you did your own wiring.
As for the rest of your argument, I said marine audio equipment and military spec wiring with wire protection systems are expensive, which is the audio equipment you should be using in a serious four wheel drive if you really must have a more than a CB. I then stated that is why the wrangler is bare, as it is cost and weight restrictive.
The prohibitive costs for electric motors are non-recoverable engineering and re-tooling. The auto giants are not going to build new a factory (unless they hate their company and want to see it fail), they are going to change the layout of their machines, a few tools (not the robots) and reprogram them to build electric motors rather than combustion engines. Car makers have to retool for every new model. The cost to retool to an electric motor should be cheaper as it would require less tools. The main cost is designing a new system to build the engine, or licensing a system for an industrial electric motor (both expensive).
The motors should cost about the same to build at first. Many electric motors only have one moving part which gives them a higher tolerances to faults. They should be initially over engineered, meaning they would use a lot of material. They would probably use copper (expensive) as it is easy to machine. So, to make my self clear, they are cheaper to shape, but may cost more in raw material.
Batteries, depending on the technology, would either keep the total build price at current production costs or add a hefty premium.
Electric car's are a new tech. They are going to be expensive for the first five years. It's the "must have" tax. Early adopters subsidise the general public. In ten years time algae oil should be starting to gain market share, which is a good thing if managed properly. That is when the electric car is going to drop in price. By that time batteries should have advanced enough to make electric car's king.
What about the rest of the car? I skipped this deliberately because redesigning the car at this stage is a waste of money. Get the product out, then optimise the design. Put a few new mounts in and she'll be right mate!
Finally, four wheel drive applications. Why on earth wouldn't the military want a silent, long range, reliable four wheel drive? Doesn't the USA have DAPRA? in 15 years you'll have your fourbie, in 28 years you can upgrade! Don't worry, my car is older. Changing an electric motor's power from flat four to V8 is not as hard as you would think
I'll check in a few days time.
I haven't taken offense to anything you have said. It is the my honor to help you understand these concepts.
Sorry to double post.
ehisforadam, for four engine drive you could use short drive shafts like that of a front wheel drive and standard suspension or have the engines cores inside the wheel and tire around it on a rubber mount and roller bearings, like an inverted induction motor. Just ideas.
I am glad to see that Chrysler is focusing on cars that 99% of the consumers won't buy because a) too pricey 2)the infrastructure is just not there yet 3)limited miles....I would take the Bimmer :)
while companies like Honda are making smaller, more efficients cars and drving the MPG higher.
Electrical outlets don't exist? My house must be special.
Ah, but when you're travelling cross-country, can you stop somewhere for twelve hours to 'juice up'?
meh...I think more American car companies need to focus on clean-burning diesel. The technology is here, available now, without battery costs and headaches down the ownership road and the MPG is pretty fantastic (as in upwards of 50-60 MPG). If Volkswagen can do this, why can't GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc?
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/04/coming-soon-to.html
Why try to catch up when you can innovate? That's where the money is. Electric power systems have a lot of potential. Two years is a lot of time. Look at the video card industry, a new processor every year. Effective electric power systems can be far simpler to design and retro fitted to existing models.
I agree with AR about clean burning diesel, and indeed manufacturers are working on that heavily, but as every American brand gets its diesel engines for their trucks from an outside manufacturer (Dodge -> Cummins, Ford -> International, GM -> Duramax) they are relying on them to work on that aspect. For my knowledge of Cummins, they will be coming out with smaller Diesels which will be going in SUVs and smaller pickups (though not limited to Chrysler).
Still I think there is a market for purely electric cars. I disagree with Darth Lord about the fact that not everyone wants a Honda. Smaller cars aren't for everyone. Families with 3 or more kids, people who constantly are carrying around things that can't fit in a trunk of a Civic, and those who don't like small cars for the safety aspect (i.e. the number of Semi is increasing each year).
I think this is good to bring these vehicles to market. Granted the Dodge is a sports coupe (which looks sweet by the way) but it could compete with the Volt, where the Town and Country and the Wrangler can be for the family, hauling class of Americans.
I agree with AR about clean burning diesel, and indeed manufacturers
are working on that heavily, but as every American brand gets its
diesel engines for their trucks from an outside manufacturer (Dodge
-> Cummins, Ford -> International, GM -> Duramax) they are relying on
them to work on that aspect. For my knowledge of Cummins, they will
be coming out with smaller Diesels which will be going in SUVs and
smaller pickups (though not limited to Chrysler).
Still I think there is a market for purely electric cars. I disagree
with Darth Lord about the fact that not everyone wants a Honda.
Smaller cars aren't for everyone. Families with 3 or more kids,
people who constantly are carrying around things that can't fit in a
trunk of a Civic, and those who don't like small cars for the safety
aspect (i.e. the number of Semi is increasing each year).
I think this is good to bring these vehicles to market. Granted the
Dodge is a sports coupe (which looks sweet by the way) but it could
compete with the Volt, where the Town and Country and the Wrangler
can be for the family, hauling class of Americans.
Personally I love the idea of all three vehicles, and if I had the means, I'd buy all three. I'm already seriously considering the Chrysler T&C as a replacement for my Wife's Durango, and the EV Version just moved up to the top of the list. If they can get it to market on time and in a reasonable price range, I see no reason why I shouldn't get it. The T&C (and it still makes me feel weird to say this - I hate mini vans) is an EXCELLENT vehicle. The options and comfort are top-shelf. Add in the ability for our family to use it gas free 90% of the time we're on the road day-to-day and you have a buyer here.
Its a Lotus cross a Dodge Viper ;)
Apparently CJ hasn't noticed that electric motors work fine under water...
Head of a Viper, and ass of a Corvette?
I'd say Lotus Europa, but we already covered that.
oooo oooooooo!
That is the MOST BEAUTIFUL Car I have ever seen in my life.
Also, I love everyone here. Seriously, I love you.
This is a bubble burster for diesel dreamers. If you really want new
technology forget diesel. Do a couple of Google searches on the
effectiveness of the "new" diesels with Particle Filters on the
exhausts. You will soon learn that they only remove the larger
particles from the exhaust stream, leaving the so-called fine
particles which do the real lung and health damage. In Europe where
diesel growth has been dramatic over the last decade, cancer rates
are much higher in urban areas along the polluted thruways. Sickness
among children in schools along thruways and elderly people living
near thruways, is also far higher. European governments are now
slowly trying to reverse the trend of cheaper diesel fuel. Diesel tax
rates at the pump were lower than gasoline but the prices are now
about the same for both diesel and gasoline. Also diesel engine
maintenance is far more costly because of the need for more frequent
oil changes and injection system repair costs. Diesel engines are
hard to keep in their original supposedly lower CO2 output. Their
high wear-out rate is mainly due to the extremely high compression
ratio, at least twice that of gasoline engines. Yes, diesel
technology has improved but these basic flaws remain. The only
solution readily available is first, the reliance on public
transportation in metropolitain areas, and second, to using more
environmently friendly "fuels" such as electricity (commuters
recharging their batteries at home), onboard generated hydrogen, or
at least LPG/CNG, which is a perfectly clean burning, albeit fossil
fuel. Unfortunately this won't help keep our present oil tycoon
lobbyists afloat and they will fight change however they can.
Their greed and addiction to oil revenues is going to
sink our ship if we cannot cut them off. There is hope because people
are finally starting to realize that the oversized SUV must go the way
of the dinosaur. Unfortunately the changes are brutal. We have let the
auto industry send us speeding towards a brick wall. It's up to us to
find the brakes and hope we can stop in time. For those who want a
"fun" to drive car, I suggest you drive an electric-powered car just
once. You just may be amazed at the acceleration. The rest is all an
engineering tradeoff. Peace to all !