Japan planning its own damn space ladder

If the third time is the charm, yet you botch that attempt just like the earlier two, then what? That's the problem facing NASA and its Space Elevator Challenge, which has for three successive years failed to live up to the vision of Arthur C. Clarke. Japan isn't waiting for a fourth, announcing plans to spend $7.3 billion on its own lift to whisk passengers (and cargo) 22,000 miles aloft on composite cables. It's the cables that are the problem, as they need to be 180 times stronger than steel and obviously much, much lighter. The Japanese are focusing on carbon nanotubes, and while they will need to be engineered four times stronger than current stock before they're up to the task, their highly conductive nature means they can not only support the lift vehicle but also power it. Useful, that, because the ride up could take a couple of days or even weeks, and astronauts will need some way to recharge their PMPs.

[Artie Lange @ Sep 24th 2008 10:30AM]

The Knight Sabers will not like this.

[Jon @ Sep 24th 2008 10:03AM]

Are we seeing the beginning of the outsourcing of NASA?

[Jon Acheson @ Sep 24th 2008 10:14AM]

No, that began years ago. Both with designing the ISS for Soyuz, and with American private sector space initiatives like the X-Prize and COTS.

[LondonConsultant @ Sep 24th 2008 10:17AM]

Well, it's more likely to be sponsored by Yo! Sushi than McDonalds...

[joshladella005 @ Sep 24th 2008 11:24AM]

no, we are seeing a new theme park

[gavinovz @ Sep 24th 2008 11:50AM]

NASA is full of curptions and bad programs. It needs to be turned over to private hands.

[KarlW @ Sep 24th 2008 12:44PM]

Wow, Americans are actually voting down a post suggesting privatising something.

Thanks - now we have to go through the riders of the apocalypse and the end of days.

[no_one @ Sep 24th 2008 2:07PM]

Are we seeing....

no, what we are seeing is this:

"stairway to heaven"

[Samboini @ Sep 24th 2008 2:51PM]

$7.3 billion is a fucking drop in the ocean for what this is going to cost. I am involved in constructing a new terminal at the UK's biggest airport, and without any of the specialist engineering and research that this thing will warrant, it is going to cost the best part of £3b.

Who ever came up with that figure is a fucking moron.

[Joshua @ Sep 24th 2008 10:03AM]

I may be stupid, but I don't think the cables are the ONLY problem. What's to stop satellites from crashing into this?

[JC @ Sep 24th 2008 10:06AM]

The fact that satellites have a set orbit path, and so does this space ladder?

[broli @ Sep 24th 2008 10:10AM]

Wow, your question is quite the paradox. You proved that humans are indeed stupid by proving your stupidity thus proving me wrong....

[Some Guy @ Sep 24th 2008 10:13AM]

Not all satellites have a fixed orbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellites#Mobile_Satellite_Systems

[Jon Acheson @ Sep 24th 2008 10:17AM]

You are correct, this is a major issue. Particularly for satellites in polar orbits.

And it's not only satellites: space elevators are also vulnerable to orbital debris and micrometeorites.

[--------- @ Sep 24th 2008 10:44AM]

There is more than just space junk to worry about, little things like weather and tides could bring the contraption crashing down. That is, if they could ever actually get it up...

I've said it before... how about a proof of concept? Someone should try and suspend a small object on a length of super strong kite string before anyone moves forward with a space elevator plan.

[ahdok @ Sep 24th 2008 11:47AM]

One of the most sensible ways to deal with a space elevator is to actually attach it to a boat (no, really.) - this because you need it to be equatorial, and a boat-mounted elevator is actually more secure, and hey, you can put it in international waters and not have it be so much of a political statement.

If you do this, then you can just sail it out of the way of satellites :)

[BigD145 @ Sep 24th 2008 12:14PM]

There's also quite a bit of floating debris in orbit. You'll need to clean much of that up as it eddies and drifts with the pull of the sun and moon..

[Matt @ Sep 24th 2008 12:32PM]

You're probably right, I mean it's common to sink millions or billions of dollars into a project without considering possible pitfalls that a 3rd grader could point out, right?

[liv @ Sep 24th 2008 1:39PM]

ever heard of geo-stationary satellites? Also there is also something called WEIGHT... how the fuck are they going to put it on a boat, Einstein? And I agree with Matt, I think this is more than just a simple project since they are willing to invest billions of dollars in it... If the elevator/ladder/thingy does shifts, it could be redressed using micro-propulsion... contra-balancing the structure...

[solu @ Sep 24th 2008 2:52PM]

@ LIV
the space elevator's cable is in tension, you say "what about weight, EINSTEIN" like you are an intelligent person mocking him, when in fact you are an idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about. A floating platform on the equator IS the best option for a space elevator. you can pump water in and out of a hull to control balast, and you have the maximum spin of the earth at the equator, which reduces the length required of the space elevators cable. I take it from your post though that you think this is actually a tower and not a tether, in which case you probably can't comprehend what im telling you.

[schmitty338 @ Sep 24th 2008 2:52PM]

@liv aka: EINSTEIN

...your comment about the boat shows your ignorance on the matter. You really think this is going to be a structure, likea building, that will have a foundation that supports the weight of the entire 22000mile elevator? No....no it is not. It will likely be positioned and weighted in such a way that the centripetal force from the spinning of the earth will keep it taught and likely the part attached to somewhere on earth will actually pull away from the ground, and not press down on it.

[Dreamtwister @ Sep 24th 2008 10:04AM]

(sings) "Where were you, when they build the ladder to heaven..."

[High Ranks make you sterile @ Sep 24th 2008 10:40AM]

This is a Nobunaga Hiroichi reporting rive from hayben. The great a-nation of Japan reached a-hayben today about eight o'crock Pacific Standard Time-eh. Therefore hayben is now a-decrared an official part of Japan, because we got a-here first. And now for the weather in heaben, let's go to Natsako Semu.

Todeh weather in hebon, partry croudy.

[kal326 @ Sep 24th 2008 11:14AM]

"Did it make you feel like crying?
Or did you think it was kinda gay?
Well I for one believe in the Ladder to Heaven
Ooh yeah yeah yeah, 9-11
I said 9-11 9-11 9-11 9, 9-11"

[qwert @ Sep 24th 2008 11:26AM]

I cant believe that it took so long for a southpark reference to come up!
"southpark?" was the first thing i thought when i read the title of the article

[Knives_Out @ Sep 24th 2008 2:34PM]

Baby you're all that I want ... when you're lying here in my arms
I'm finding it hard to believe ... we're in heaven

[IndiaTech @ Sep 24th 2008 6:53PM]

I hope they find Kenny...

[Chris Anderson @ Sep 24th 2008 10:03AM]

won't this be continually bombarded by space junk and particles? I know certain regions at different orbit heights contain much more garbage than others....will it perhaps not be extending that high?

[ry @ Sep 24th 2008 10:33AM]

Correct.
In fact the radiation in the upper atmosphere (Van Allen belt) would kill any passengers on board unless they put a ridiculous amount of shielding on the cable-car-thingy. It'd be great for shifting cargo, but the humans on board would have a rough time of it until they get that bit sorted out.
See: http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10520-space-elevators-first-floor-deadly-radiation.html

[1234321 @ Sep 24th 2008 3:02PM]

that's why they are using carbon nanotubes, its as strong are diamond (or close to it)

[Dan @ Sep 24th 2008 10:46PM]

Diamonds are hard, not strong, two different material properties.

[mabhatter @ Sep 25th 2008 12:41AM]

you're all missing that this is 250 MILES long.. that means it would be several hundred yards accross. That's more than big enough to handle all but the largest objects. If that doesn't work, it's big enough to mount frickin' lasers on!

[bob sakamano @ Sep 24th 2008 10:03AM]

so if something hits the cables... these people just float away into space? or at least are floating around in space tethered to some space station?

[John Giotta @ Sep 24th 2008 10:32AM]

Below geosync, you would fall to Earth. After, of course, float out into space. There tons of threats; weather, space debris, ionized atmosphere, days to get into orbit, then also that Earth is trying to throw off the counterweight.

[zac @ Sep 27th 2008 5:42PM]

This was my primary concern, we (humans) don't seem to have the best experience when it comes to predicting our enviornment. Are we really sure this counterbalance tethered to Earth wont affect it? In the end, even a feather could send a house of cards toppling down...

[fh @ Sep 24th 2008 10:06AM]

Where were you... when they built the ladder to heaven?

[cesium @ Sep 24th 2008 11:41AM]

I was there, but you were 2 minutes late

[Ron Smith @ Sep 24th 2008 10:10AM]

The Elevator challenge is not to reach for a specific goal with applications. This is not a DARPA Urban Challenge. The goal is to grow the industry and the knowledge base to create a tether which will take a long time. We are at least 100 years away from a space elevator right now.

[maveric101 @ Sep 24th 2008 12:13PM]

about 100 years ago we were just learning to fly. and with the accelerating advancement of technology, we can't even comprehend what we will be capable of in another 100 years.

[Mycroft @ Sep 24th 2008 10:11AM]

From a strategic standpoint, the U.S. must construct their own space elevator. They should siphon off a the money from the defense budget, since it is a matter of national defense.. Technical challenges remain, of course, and until those are resolved, it is anybody's guess if an elevator will even be made. But the U.S. can ill afford to lose its strategic foot hold in space.

[revreddy @ Sep 24th 2008 10:25AM]

I'm not really sure how this will bolster our defense. However, I fully agree that we need to build our own space elevator, which will be very costly considering producing the 64,000 miles of carbon nanotubes to tether its upper station to a floating platform at sea. More importantly, we can spend less on these expensive and time-consuming space shuttle missions just to do send up some supplies or do maintenance on a satellite/telescope.

[DT @ Sep 24th 2008 1:11PM]

We cannot allow a mineshaf...er, space elevator gap!

[tim marshall @ Sep 24th 2008 10:13AM]

Wouldnt it be easy for someone to i dont know... destroy the ladder... like by crashing a plane into it...

[Mycroft @ Sep 24th 2008 10:20AM]

So to follow you logic, we should not build a space elevator because someone could destroy it?

I'm not sure why I get out of bed in the morning if that is the case.

[bob sakamano @ Sep 24th 2008 10:18AM]

yeah i thought the same... but seeing how the cables are going to be 180 times stronger than steel it would probably slice up that plane like a meat slicer and a pound of pastrami

[TJ @ Sep 24th 2008 10:36AM]

Hey its Japan, you don't have to worry. They have Gundams protecting that thing.

[Grey Acumen @ Sep 24th 2008 11:40AM]

Take this! My love, my sorrow, and all of my anger!

SHINIIIIIIINNNNNGGG FINGEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

[Vcize @ Sep 24th 2008 11:50AM]

"So to follow you logic, we should not build a space elevator because someone could destroy it?"

He has a point. If someone were to take out the base or a chunk of the middle, what exactly happens when 22,000 miles of something 180 times the strength of steel come crashing down?

A building is one thing. If this thing fell over it would crash onto half the planet.

[bureX @ Sep 24th 2008 12:23PM]

"If this thing fell over it would crash onto half the planet."
I'm assuming that one part would mostly crash into the ocean, while the other one would (partially, or completely) burn up in the atmosphere. However, if the construction material is really, and I mean really strong, then it could resist the re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere and create one neat line on the face of the planet - kind of like a whip scar, making us feel stupid in the eyes and tentacles of intelligent beings in outer space... The shame...

Personally, I would attach a few billboards on that thing near the surface to raise the overall construction budget :)

[Vcize @ Sep 24th 2008 1:34PM]

Nevermind, you were talking about the pieces at the top, not the cables.