It look like Hollywood's won the first round
in court against RealNetworks'
RealDVD DVD-ripping software -- Judge Maralyn Hall Patel (of Napster fame, remember her?) ruled yesterday that a temporary restraining order blocking sales of the software will stay in place indefinitely until she decides whether it violates the DMCA. The central issue is whether or not making a bit-for-bit copy of a DVD constitutes circumventing copy protection: the studios claim the encryption keys must be read off the disk under the terms of the license agreement, and RealNetworks obviously disagrees. There's a lot at play here, including the studios' argument that
fair use doesn't serve as a defense to backing up DVDs, so we'll be tracking this one closely -- it's sadly clear to us that Hollywood's fight here is against consumers having flexibility with their media, since it lost the battle against actual piracy ages ago.
posted Oct 9th 2008 3:51AM
http://snipurl.com/47ei8
Ha, never saw that before. Full version is pretty bomb.
The studios don't seem to understand just who it is that puts money in their pockets so they can feed their families. WE THE CONSUMERS DO!!! Just wait until the rest of the world learns what we the techies already know about fair use and how it legally prevents (not litarally prevents) us from doing what we want with our movies so they can play on whatever devices we feel like. People in time will learn and a backlash toward the studios will be the result but it looks like it's going to take the masses getting screwed by crap like massively big and expensive DRM'd personal libraries not being able to be accessed. It's too bad all of the movie studios and some of the music labels and retailers (yes you Steve Jobs) can't REALLY take a hint from players like Amazon that clearly can see the future.
So just stop buying Hollywood's content. Stick to YouTube user videos and read Engadget for your entertainment. Oh wait, Engadget is owned by Hollywood....darn...well watch some YouTube cause you obviously don't NEED Hollywood's stuff...Q
So sad, this is a practical way for legitimate dvd owners to use their movies on their computer. You would think the companies would embrace this. When it comes to the point where I can't buy a dvd and put it on my computer (even with drm) then I have no problem downloading movies.
Of course they wont embrace this, they want you to buy their movies all over again in a digital format - if you could just copy your DVDs onto your computer for portable viewing they don't get any money, and hence it _must be stopped_!
I agree. If I ever rip DVDs it's because I want the convenience of just playing a file - not faffing about with discs and boxes and so on. We're in the 21st century! The rest of the world has moved on; why can't these studios?
The studios are making a big mistake. There are so many open source and free programs to rip DVDs that they should have trumpeted RealDVD's copy protection solution. The studios are incubating a generation of bittorrent users.
I never thought I'd see the day where I'd side with Real against *anything*.
See what you've gone and done you MPAA b@$t*!ds!
Even though I hate Real, this is still pretty sad. I'd want pretty much any company to win in this scenario. The whole case is like putting someone in jail for buying a gun, whether or not the intend to do something illegal with it or not.
What he said
And next up, DVD drives will no longer be allowed in computers, since we must only want one there in order to pirate movies.
*cough*
Who cares about this? You can never win fighting against Hollywood. People will moan and whine, but fact is they keep going to theaters to watch yet another crappy movie, and keep buying the DVDs that come out later. Don't like the studios, then don't support them. Not that easy huh.
Besides, ripping DVDs is not something new. People who are already ripping their DVDs will still do so.
I do hope this issue will bring back the validity of the DMCA. The DMCA is the real problem, being abused as such.
You answered the question in your first sentence in your final two sentences.
"Not that easy huh."
Thanks to P2P, couldn't be easier.
That last phrase was glorious, let me repeat it...
"it's sadly clear to us that Hollywood's fight here is against consumers having flexibility with their media, since it lost the battle against actual piracy ages ago"
This is how our modern society deals with the dark side of what it has been built. Restraining everybody's freedom is easier than going against freeloaders or criminals directly, and thinking it twice, sometimes it'd better be that way, if laws were enforced by "total control" our lives will be miserable
But I agree, film industry has many commercial ways to fight piracy benefiting customers directly and making piracy less attractive. Till they find it, let's do whatever we want with our "licensed" material (obviously we own nothing as they see it)
If the judge has banned SALES, is there anything to stop Real giving the thing away for free?
(Not that that'll ever happen!)
Sometimes things just get stolen and released on the net. Maybe I'm just vindictive, but I'd want to f*ck with the people who took away my cash cow.
While I agree this software should not be banned, it was hardly going to be a cash-cow. You do realize that it allows you to make a single DVD copy and each additional copy (up to 5) costs you $20? That my friend is $20 extra dollars even though a) you already own the DVD and b) you already own the DVD burning software.
If this isn't the epitome of what is bad with DRM, I don't know what is.
if you already own the dvd - it is much easier to just download a digital version that has already been converted for you :)
So hang on, they have carried out a punishment-pulling the sales, before any guilt has been attributed?
Innocent until proven guilty my arse.
This doesn't change the fact that ripping /any/ optical disc to an .iso image is absolutely trivial....
Yup.. let's see... Hollywood is just stopping Joe Sixpack from copying his DVDs legally. Currently your DVD library + Rip-It-4-Me + DVD Decrypter + DVD Shrink + Virtual CD + Handbrake = solution to playing your media anywhere you want. Sure it takes a few extra minutes to re-code with Handbrake, but hey, it is 100% free with exception of Virtual CD.
This is all theory, of course, because I would never DO this stuff since it removes the disc encryption. *cough*
Um...
I'm just talking about 'dd'.
I regard re-encoding the same way as I regard gentoo. ..a minor contributor to global warming and little else.
The WORST!!!
So it's a license to view the content, not own it. So, if I scratch a DVD it should be replaced by the mpaa? I still own a license to view, but the medium is bad.
>> ruled yesterday that a temporary restraining order blocking sales of the software will stay in place indefinitely until she decides whether it violates the DMCA
So... basically a presumption of guilt while she tries to "decide" (i.e., get some "gifts" from the industry) its innocence or guilt? Give me a break. What a dumb idiot. I hope she gets thrown off the bench.
Um, I happen to be a personal friend of the judge. She doesn't "wait to get gifts" from anyone to base a ruling, asshat. She wants to gather as much information as possible to be sure she rules correctly, like most judges should. I think she would rather rule correctly and reinstate sales afterwards then to let people buy software that could become illegal after the ruling.
And on a side note, I think that we should be able to put digital media we own legally (either by dvd or download) on any other digital format we choose. As long as we are't selling it or giving it away to others it should be ours since we bought it outright.
+1
Victor...here is the thing:
This is really a no-brainer. Real, as much as we hate them, is 100% correct: a bit-for-bit copy does not circumvent CSS.
I mean, The MPAA and the Copy Control boys can whine about every other "but it is baaaaaad" angle they wish to, but the actual reality is that, if Real's software works as they claim it does, and in this case, I really have no doubt of this because it is a Bad Technical Solution Crafted to Comply with a Bad Law...it is really a no-brainer, and the MPAA has o go back and redo this.
As someone pointed out, this method of copying a DVD makes every unix system on earth, and evey Cygwin, hell, every os that can *mount* a DVD a "circumvention device* because CSS *is not in any way copy protection*...and the MPAA, the CSS boys AND their lawyers all know this.
This whole thing is basically about Real having the unmitigated gall to point to the emperor, giggle, and say "heheh..nekkid!"
The fact that they toss another layer of DRM on there to help these clowns is hilarity in and of itself.
Your personal friend's doubt about if or not a bit-for-bit copy of a scrambled disc constitutes a DCMA violation basically tells me that she doesn't understand what "circumvention" is, what a "bit for bit" copy is, and while perhaps it was...untoward...for the previous commentor to suggest she's taking bribes (and really, it wasn't cool) this particular case is just so...cut and dry to ANYONE with more than a cursory understanding of technology, it may be hard for the more...passionate among use to show some restraint.
Really. it is a simple test:
1. Can the copy in question be played without an unscrambling key? If yes, MPAA Wins.
2. Does the source contain ANYTHING that requires verification before it can be copied? If no, case close.
Real DVD doesn't violate the DCMA, because it doesn't circumvent CSS. DVDs do not have copy controls; they have content controls.
That is it. If the MPAA/CSS want to argue the contract, so be it, but this is NOT that case.
I saw the Cnet buzz report about this.... Its about HOLLYWOOD suing Real DVD and then Real DVD suing the HOLLYWOOD......
I knew this would happen..... Getting DRM from old DVDs.....
What we need is the Supreme Court to indefinitely throw the DMCA out on its unconstitutional ass.
Not saying that wouldn't be nice, but that's not a real solution. We need a better-educated Congress to amend the act to help protect consumers and their rights - i.e., removing the parts that disallow people from circumventing copy protection since that, in and of itself, does not necessarily lead to piracy, but at the same time making sure that artists are rightfully compensated for their work.
We also need the industry to completely revamp their business model (any idiot who's never taken a business class can see that it fails due to the huuuuge amount of piracy) - have account based services a la Steam for example.
The judge's name isn't Maralyn, its MARILYN.
I guess I'm one of the people hollywood hates, I have a 1500DVD collection of movies and starting bluray collection now. Between netflix and redbox, I copy any movie I want, Hell I can even rip bluray movies, just waiting on bluray burners to drop in price a little more, then I can start doing direct copies of them. The problem is with 9 Billion people on the planet, they can't create an encryption that can't be hacked, there is always someone smart then the person making it. In the end the only people hollywood is hurting are the ones who honesty can't figure out how to copy, a dvd or convert to avi. They can't stop us techs who understand how to do it.
We don't even need the extra 3 billion people, we're that good.
anyDVD by slysoft all the way!
We need McCarthy to investigate Hollywood again. "I hold in my hand a list of all the weenies in hollywood supporting the DMCA..."
@Nilay: is it just a coincidence that you have the same last name as the judge in this case?
Yes, it's an incredibly common last name.
I was thinking the same thing.
There is one major problem with her ruling: not all DVDs have code blocking you from copying it. I have at least one retail DVD that will let me copy the movie to my computer with absolutely no problems. Of course, if I wouldn't use RealDVD because then it would add more restrictions than the movie actually has.