Microsoft survey hints at Instant On OS concept
By Darren Murph 
posted October 15th 2008 8:06AM
posted October 15th 2008 8:06AM
[Thanks, Anonymous]
posted October 15th 2008 8:06AM
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How about just getting the damned thing to work? That may be a new concept for Microsoft to explore...
Survey this, Survey that. Microsoft, Just do the job properly this time and make sure the software is cheap as well.
Lord Jobs doesn't even do a survey. He just 'instantly' rapes you and your wallet.
Insta-Crash, Ahuh.
My Vista Ultimate already crash more than 3 times a day.
cut back on the pr0n man....
There really are Mac Fanboys who still stick with Windows.
Then either you're an idiot.. there's something wrong with your install, your hardware or all three. I'm inclined to think you're an idiot.
This sounds like a very, very bad idea - an overengineered solution that will lead to more, not less, user confusion. How many times do you think your grandma is going to call you because her computer won't do X, Y, and Z, and you'll have to explain the difference between "sort of on" and "really on"? Users who read Engadget could probably make better use of a feature like this, but typical consumers will be baffled. If Microsoft is truly incapable of operating within the universally understood on/off paradigm, they really should just give up on the consumer market and cede the whole thing to Apple. If somebody at Apple suggested something like this, they would be taken out back and you-know-what.
Nah, they could just turn it of and people who know what it is and want to use it can turn it on and use it.
"If somebody at Apple suggested something like this, they would be taken out back and you-know-what."
Applauded for innovation? Apple has never been worried about experiences where something expected isn't available - i.e. floppy disc drives, optical disc drives, now firewire. Why wouldn't the Mac community appreciate a 8 second limited load time?
What I would like to see is an "Instant On OS" that loads the full operating system in the background while I have access to those limited programs. I don't know about others, but the first thing I do is open a browser when I start my computer. So, if I could access that immediately while the "rest" of the OS loads in the background, even if that part took an extra 5 minutes, I would be ok with it.
Race to the patent office?
The only instant one i want is from the motherboard , which would hopefully help if you crashed your hard drive or had etc problems.
That's what bootable CDRoms and USB disks are for ..
I know this is a dumb question, but why do computers have to boot at all? Why can't the Operating environment just be written onto flash memory or something. Other than when you install new memory resident software, what ever changes from each boot to the next? Couldn't booting p be similar to coming out of sleep mode?
I think the whole "boot up" process is an antiquated idea that really needs to be revisited.
I think that's what the "hibernate" functionality was for
Of course they're giving it some thought. Duh. Seeing as how the current "instant on" OSes are Linux/Open Source based, for Redmond to ignore it gives an "in" to the competition. They need to close any such gaps to retain control of your PC.
That's not strictly true. Although Dell and others have used Linux, HTC has used Windows Mobile and Samsung used XP Embedded to perform the same function.
Personally, this feels like Microsoft may be giving up on SideShow (hardly surprising as it never seemed to get off the ground despite being a great idea with loads of potential) and I'd prefer that they put more effort into improving Sleep/Hibernate performance (their other instant-on solution) than work on a whole new way of doing things. I use sleep all the time (and it generally works very well) and I wouldn't switch to a cut-down instant-on OS.
Fuck this. We all know Microsoft. It's going to be Windows Slideshow 2.0 but you can use it on the primary screen. Wow.
I'm all for options! How many of us have booted up our computer for 10 seconds to check our email then shut it back down?!?!
Why would you need "instant-on" when we already have it from sleep mode? IMHO it would make more sense to try to reduce power consumption during sleep and then tend to leave the computer in sleep for most of the time.
Exactly. I already do this. My Vista desktop sits in S3 sleep when I'm not using it, and it's usable in 3-5 seconds from button press. (Especially since I don't have to go through the BIOS and etc.) There's no reason nowadays to continue to shut down your computer every time you're done with it. Especially since if you leave it in S3, it will be able to wake up and do its maintenance operations in the middle of the night instead of having to do them while you're trying to work on it.
My 3yr old 1ghz laptop can resume from hibernate to XP in 15 seconds, and it's loaded with junk. A modern laptop could do it way faster, and there's no reason for a desktop to be slower.
wait a sec: slide one: ability to browse the web, do IM watch DVDs and listen to music..... This means you would not have access to your files. .... instant on scnario: web browsing, media playback and IM
think, think, how the hell are you going to play your media if you cant reach it on your hard drive, on a freak'n USB stick!? am i the idiot here?
yes you are,
I am pretty sure it means web content media playback. loaded into ram specifically.
I am guessing that they don't want to load Explorer.exe or sata.sys or big drivers or library files like that.
Gee I am wondering if this hinting of an instant on OS is really the next release of Windows CE, which has always been an instant on OS
That would make a certain amount of sense (though for the record, in typical MS naming fiasco fashion, it is now Windows embedded consumer edition or some such). It is a small, lightweight embedded OS that could even sit onboard on firmware. The next version is having significant effort put forward to make it consumer friendly, and it has a port of pretty much every application an instant on OS needs- a media player, messenger, browser (which is finally being upgraded), pocket word (which is pretty much wordpad), pocket mail (which is a really stripped down email client).
The catch, though, is driver support. WinCE has a really crappy driver model for this sort of thing, because it is designed to run on fixed, immutable systems where the OEM tailors it for a particular hardware profile. For *some* motherboards where everything is on board this would probably be fine, but for desktops where the user could have an expansion video card, sound card, etc, this driver model just won't work.
What they need is a new type of instant-on. One that boots into a minimalist stage very quickly, then loads the rest of the OS in the background. That way, if you only need to do some quick web browsing, you can, and if you later need to use photoshop you can.
My guess is that it is marketing ... the instant on os will be a version of Windows CE or mobile ... and just be renamed with a suitable new name to impress general users and to tick the box on the spec charts for instant on facilities.
Microsoft need to do something to answer the SpashTop versions of Linux because as this feature becomes popular general users will be asking why they need to even have a Microsoft operating system if the linux version does what they need.
I need an optimized for gaming PC(not gaming pc) architecture plus an OS just for gaming... like xo in your pc box, up in a few seconds, ready for gaming.
So let me get this right - MS is considering an 'Instant-On' OS that gives you limited capabilities and boots in a mere 8 seconds? I would guess that whatever this OS is, it's probably not going to be Win32 compatible (it'd probably be a CE derivative) so you're going to need a whole second set of apps. Seeing as it has already been shown (as in can be done now) that a full-blown Linux distro with a statically built kernel and optimized init scripts can boot to completion (as in completely done loading) in 5 seconds, what the hell is the purpose? Windows main hold on the world is it's software compatibility - take that away and there are plenty of better solutions already out there.
Oh, and I'd really like to see these XP machines that boot in under a minute because I've never seen such a thing. Sure, they can boot to the desktop in under 30 seconds, but they're still churning away loading all the various processes for a few minutes and everything is the suck until it's done. You're not done booting until the machine is in an idle state and ready to go.
Why do you jump to the conclusion that the "new concept" is one they are working on? Maybe they are trying to figure out what SplashTop is really doing without being able to say - "Hey people, what do you think of this big cool competitive offering??" I mean, MS has shown they can't react very quickly to stuff like this...They are never going to get the big fat blob of Windows into something that competes with the thin and fast of Linux... I'll still with my Ubuntu box...
Remember the new "micro kernel" and the new modular approach?
My guess here is that by using it they will load just the bare essentials. What takes too much time on boot time is the initial load of Windows (albeit, most power users to sysadmins know how to make the system available in less time than "the usual"). If you have a lot of crap going, definitively is not Windows fault if it takes time to load (or any OS, the more services you run the more loading you will need).
But if you stick to the basics (say, a PE environment) and load what's needed for file access, networking and media playing... I mean they can easily shave some time from boot by not loading advanced features like bluetooth, PnP, printing spools, SmartCard stuff, etc. Let's take a look, for example, at the AppleTV. It's basically the same OSX but with several options conveniently turned off. If you take the same software and use it on a faster machine (one where you could compare loading times with full blown OSX) you would be able to see what i'm talking about. The same happens with Linux, take the Linpus Lite for a ride and it will load really fast.
This could very well fit into the whole Windows Strata deal, by tying all the stuff together.
As of today, all OSes (sorry fanboys, this is true) are mature enough, all need some work under the hood to get some bugs squatted, yes, but all of them are mature enough and the new battle will be in loading times. Most of the time, though, a faster boot mean that you will end up with less options.
There has been a lot of work on beta testing of Windows Embedded, so what's to keep them from, you know, embedding Windows in your everyday motherboard?
And for those who say that their XP is so fast... You should always remember that your gaming rigs and massive setups are not the norm, mainly because Microsoft works on a global market and not everyone in the world has the money to buy an expensive rig. (Meaning yes, you can have a faster PC if you are willing or able to spend some serious dough on it).
i dont personally care much about boot times since i rarely turn off my pc
i guess they are talking about laptops and other mobile devices. Agreed...i dont care much about boot times on my pc. I restart my pc may be once in a month or 2 to install the critical updates...
I have a pc that sports a 1GHz old generation Via C3 with 512MB of memory that boots into XP in less than 2 seconds. The start logo just blips not even a second until it brings up the GUI background screen.
Care to know how this is possible?
A little secret known as Windows XP Embedded installed on a CF card used for the c drive, using the VIA IDE Accelerator miniport driver, and using EWF, also quite possibly the mini-itx based Thin Client PC hardware might play into part of the speed factor.
The unit is crazy fast and it loads up WMP 10 in less than a few seconds, even though I highly prefer J. River Media center, which loads even faster.
@ fuzio fuzo... LOL. 7 Seconds to load XP! Funniest thing I have read all week!
I would think hackers would use this to hack systems much easier and faster. From what I've read, this would open up a limited amount of programs before W7 loads. These programs would have to receive regular updates and kept clean of any holes, hooks, or exploits.
If you give a hacker any amount of segway (such as giving them access to some programs before or after the boot screen/password input), they can use that to find exploits in some or all of the programs which could potentially give them access to the whole computer.
I could just be paranoid, but giving anyone quick access to anything on your computer has potential to be disastrous, imo.
How do you guys get 30sec XP boot times? Your installations must have nothing on them! By the time I have installed all the programs I need for a fully functioning PC, my XP installation takes 5 minutes to boot. The twin boot up evils on my machine are Zonealarm Internet Security Suite and SQL Server... OMG are they slow. Do you not run any security? I am going to create a dual boot XP (work programs) and XP (leisure programs) machine as 5 minute boots are very painful.
Resuming from hibernation in windows vista is preferential to this for most people I think.
Edit: I don't see this being of any use on standard laptops and desktop, standby and hibernation is sufficient.
as much as i hate vista, i'm actually looking forward to windows 7 :) can't wait til 2010
@wyson the Windows firewall is sufficient for the vast majority of people. Of course if the user is ignorant of basic security practices.. that's not a firewall problem.
Meh. I rarely turn my computer off.
Well, if they can make return from standby something that happens in less than 15 seconds again (thanks Vista) I might believe they actually have something that would start from cold "instantly". Also Firefox + Outlook are my two votes for applications that should work in this mode.
Splashtop is nice, but I can't browse my hard drive for files - truely annoying, practically useless in my mind.
Oh, look I can surf - big deal. Make it so I can fix my machine....
So the idea of a "splashtop" style windows -> Ya, I am interested and ya, it would probably influence my mb purchasing choices. Heck, I would even be willing to pay 10$ to upgrade my current motherboard's splashtop ssd to something windows based.
This is a waste of time. Optimizing the normal boot process would be a better use of resources. The eventual switch to SSDs will take care of the rest.
I don't understand why it should take 2 minutes or more to boot, login, and load background tasks and services on modern hardware. My 1.6GHz computer from gateway can do all that in 90 seconds. Disk speed will probably end up being the limiting factor, but it's more likely that the services just aren't loading efficiently.
Maybe we are all getting a bit too impatient? My Windows Mobile phone takes 21 seconds to turn off, and 1:30 to boot to a point I can make a phone call, then another full minute until windows can tell me when my next appointment is.
My digital picture frame takes 13 seconds to "boot-up", my Avaya office telephone takes several minutes to reboot and my set-top-box takes about 15 minutes before I can watch TV after a cold-start, even my energy-saving CFL light bulbs take several minutes to "warm-up" and produce their full output. My oven takes 10-15 minutes to "pre-heat" before I can cook my dinner and my garden takes several months before it produces any vegetables.
I think of my PC as just another oven that needs to be "pre-heated" before I can use it. Relax and enjoy the wait, what's the big hurry?
I think they should make an entirely new, basic OS that does just that.
They should really just find a third party that has a mature instant-on OS and buy them out.
Look at Visio, for example - probably one of the most intuitive professional MS apps out (but developed by a third party).
MS has a big problem with 'everything for everyone all the time;' they need to start growing their business through acquisitions (like Google).