Ruh roh. Seems that swanky new LCD on Sony's
PSP-3000 could be garnering more complaints than anything else. If you'll recall, the aforesaid system was touted as having a brighter,
better screen than the PSP-2000, but now the PlayStation forums are filling up with irate PSP-3000 buyers who are experiencing unexplained scanlines and totally peculiar interlacing problems. As you can see above, the 3000's screen looks noticeably worse than that of the 2000, and while we always hope that these issues are contained, we have at least one Engadget staffer and a Joystiq comrade who can attest to this being real. SCEA has been contacted and is currently "looking into" the matter -- we won't dare say that r-word just yet, but this doesn't look particularly good on the surface. We'll keep you posted.
[Via
Joystiq]
Update: A Japanese Sony Computer Entertainment representative has informed us that the interlacing-like lines are just "features" of the new LCD, and currently, there are no plans to fix it with a future software update since it is in the hardware.
posted Oct 21st 2008 9:06AM
Rootkit?
gdit you're slow....
RECALL
He was being sarcastic.
"Update: A Japanese Sony Computer Entertainment representative has informed us that the interlacing-like lines are just "features" of the new LCD, and currently, there are no plans to fix it with a future software update since it is in the hardware."
Sony is the new apple claiming that every problem with their systems is a feature.
LOL.
Look who's talking, M$ the failure of all time.. go away fanboy!
Don't kid yourself, Sony has been claiming that mistakes like these are "features" for a while now. Remember when the PSP was a UMD launcher? Feature.
Ya, Next thing you know they will claim that dead pixals are a feature. Its a power savings method, less pixals, less power use.
Yeah they did something like that with one of the button near the screen when they first released the psp! I remember them saying something like: "you should consider yourselfs lucky to have such an amazing product in your hands". As for Apple and Microsoft, they both have a history of finally fixing their mistakes while Sony doesnt!
Or it could be that it's just a bug that certain games (in certain scenarios) expose. The picture kinda looks like a scanline inversion to me, something I have seen in the past in video devices I have worked on. In all cases, it was something that would only occur in the right circumstances and in all cases it was a software bug.
Ok, pre-emptive strike. I meant the lines on the background look like an inversion. The offset ("ghosted") lines around the girl are obviously due to tearing during motion, something you can't avoid with interlacing. But I assumed the backgound was fairly static.
The ever so respectable journalistic engadget and joystiq combo.
""On some occasions, scan lines may appear on scenes where brightness changes drastically, due to the hardware features of the new LCD device on PSP-3000. Installed with this new LCD device, PSP-3000 offers more natural and vibrant colors on its screen, but the scan lines have come out to be more visible as a result of improving response time to alleviate the afterimages on PSP-3000. Since this is due to hardware specification, there are no plans for a system software update concerning this issue."
Doesn't say that the scanlines were a feature, they say they were caused by another feature.
And personally the situation is overblown. Even in the briliant shot of laharl there you would have to move him side to side extremely fast to get that effect. It is generally not noticable in many of the games I have played except for gurumin.
haha. "features" , I'm sure that'll go over well. my old ipod had this "feature" where the battery would just die after a couple hours.
Meh. Bad translation? "Features" as in characteristics of the item, not its star fuctions or customer bonuses. Still an unfortunate answer either way.
That's probably the trade-off for the better contrast and response time. Usually these displays need some way to compensate for improved performance and it seems here they did it through interleaving scanlines. I personally would be interested in seeing one of those comparisons from a real-life perspective. Magnified shots of still images are not exactly lifelike and don't represent the user experience. The people complaining are probably the same one's who started that whole "This is not 720p" discussion a while back. Most users probably won't even notice.
Why is the screen on my Ipod Touch extremely bright, clear, and not a hint of interlacing or blur. Don't tell me that it's necessary, I've seen some beautiful LCD's.
I don't know why this shit comment system again swallowed my first long-ish response comment but as I tried to explain there the iPod costs vastly more than a PSP. The screen on an iPod is much smaller and of different build quality. Someone at Sony made the decision to choose better image saturation and color virbance over refresh time performance. A screen in that size with comparable color performance increase would be significantly more expensive and push the PSP out of the desired price range. That's why they chose a compromise of scanlines and color fidelity over image quality in general.
They made a wrong choice yeah, trying to put one over on their naive fans and getting caught.
Yeah, I've seen this in PSone titles, just baaarely in Patapon (on the main screen changing scenes, but not anywhere else), and not at all in Wipeout Pure (!). Here's my guess: developers used the poor refresh and ghosting of the old hardware to cover up interlacing tricks they used to squeeze extra performance out of the hardware. The games that push the PSP the most are most likely to be doing this trick, so that's why it shows up on a game-by-game basis.
That's a corporate response for you. You point out a problem and they call it a feature!
Anyone gullible enough to believe that... I have a car for you without an engine, its main feature is that it's human powered.
So... you mean it's super environmentally friendly? I'll take two!
*First car to reach [infinity] mpg*
this car runs on fast food, the only fuel emission byproduct is flatulence.
Remember, the difference between a feature and a bug. A feature is documented.
Woo! More undocumented features, lucky us!
Interlacing issues would be the last thing I'd expect, except maybe over video cables. I would have figured the system would have progressive output for everything.
Of course! The reviewer is obviously biased, using lower-quality video cables from their PSPs to the screen on the new PSPs. Such journalistic abandon should be shunned. If they could just crack open their handhelds, replace the cables, and put it all back together, liek any true Sony fan would do, they would see that the lines are in fact sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows.
Uhhh, I just meant the only place I'd expect any interlacing involving a PSP would be when using the video output feature, like to a tv.
But I hope you enjoyed your triple cappuccino.
well, the psp 3000 was touted to be able to send video to a tv through the composite cable, which only supports interlaced content.
whereas the psp 2000 could only do it over component; i.e. progressive.
so i guess it is a "feature" in a sense.
Common guys, this new feature makes your games look a lot cooler!
Common? really? Come on.
if you are on acid, sure!
Ha!, they wanted arcade games experience in a pocket, now you all have it!
* 90's arcade experience!
At least they can game with buttons without having to look where their fingers are going. And at least it has expandable storage.
All that storage will sure come in handy holding saves for the craptastic-looking "this is by design" games.
I hope there are games to learn English
And Nintendo DS (and DSi, eventually) solidifies its lead...
I hope you reached through the phone and slapped that asshole that gave you that excuse. Like Sony would actually recall this. They'll just make another version that isn't fucked up for you to buy. How many broken Playstation 2s are out in the world? In my opinion, the Disc Read Error problem was more widespread than the Red Ring of Death, but only got a small fraction of the attention.
agreed! Disc Read Error was ridiculous
My orignal fat PS2 is like 5 years old now and i've never had an error before...
Try playing something other than a game in it, or try using a blue CD PS 2 game, as opposed to the gold colored DVD games. Report the results back to me.
In Sony's defense here, the Disk Read error affected PS2's like, 5 years into use (mine as an example), RROD happened within a couple maybe 3 years most.
I've played DVD's, gold-backed games, blue-backed games, and the old PS1 black discs on my fat old PS2. I've also played music CD's on it. I can only recall one disc my PS2 won't play, and that's because for some reason the disc isn't held properly by the spindle, so it just flops around.
Maybe i'm just lucky like soulsaber, but the PS2 i had before this one never experienced any issues, either.
Hey, now. I got my PS2 in 2001 and I've successfully played hundreds of different discs on it. I've had a few issues with DVDs skipping when only slightly scratched. I used the system consistently since I purchased it and have had no notable problems.
3D without the glasses
Just wear some of those Kanye West glasses and you wont notice a thing...
http://thelastgasp.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/kanye-west-400a071107.jpg
Oh man, you beat me to it! *high fives Unclejerry*
I didn't know Kanye was making music back in the 80's.
Can I just ask "What the fuck?" regarding those glasses? How are those cool? Why do I keep seeing them? Its like the 7UP glasses from the 80's where you could see through them but people could only see the billboard on your face. HOW IS THIS COOL!?!?!?
Cool is whatever everybody else appears to be doing. So it's quite easy. Taste or aesthetics are something else though.
Low sales figures will likely be a resulting "feature" then.
They did it to increase sales of the 2000 model.
Number 1 rule in game design, anything that crops up that is not suppose to be there immediately becomes a "feature" or "challenge" for the game or system.
i have one of the new psp 3000 and i am happy to report that I dont have those problems about interlacing or "bananas" popping up on my screen. I am a happy camper.
have you tried a few different games? I would assume it doesn't occur on every game.
Yes i have played about 5 different games and movies and havent noticed it. I wonder if this is just a few psp's with this issue? i personally dont see it.
So it’s a "feature" for some and not for others then... doesn't sound like much of a "feature" to me if that’s the case. What a farce.
This isn't the only Sony product to offer great, undocumented features:
* Rootkit security gaps: like a spare house key when you can't remember how to get into your secure system
* laptop batteries catching fire: With the impending world oil crisis, sony was providing an alternative heating source
* ps3 firmware 2.4 bricking console: friendly reminder/PSA to get outside and play
Keep 'em coming Sony!
Just throw bullet for it on the side of the box, i suggest using "eye-popping" in there somewhere.. problem solved...
When more people get the PSP3000 in their hands, we'll know if this is going to be a problem or not.
You also have to remember that not everyone is the same. Back in the heyday of the CRT (oh, the good old days), we'd have varying refresh rates, and 60Hz was the default for many. Some people got headaches from using monitors at 60Hz, while others were unaffected, and it was one of the reasons why people said that LCDs were superior (when really they just needed to adjust their refresh). For LCDs, 60Hz is standard, because LCDs produce images differently, and so do not flicker like a CRT. Some didn't even notice the difference between 60Hz and 100Hz CRTs.
The same could also be true for the PSP brite... some people could be really bothered by the effect, while others might not be (or even like it). I personally am prone to noticing display artifacts (like interlacing and scan rates, I used a 100Hz CRT way back then), so I'm guessing that I'll be affected by it. I was going to buy the PSP3000, but it seems that now I'll have to check out this problem a bit more before making my decision.
this nuff said:
http://www.gamerchip.com/images/psp-2000-vs-psp-30011.jpg
.
how does this have anything to do with scan lines?
This is a problem with *every* laptop with LED-backlit screens that Sony has released as well. It annoys the crap out of a lot of VAIO owners (especially those with sharp vision), and Sony refuses to recognise or promise to fix it because apparently most people aren't bothered by it.
you guys have clearly never played disgaea - that's laharl's special movement technique "shadow phantom" after he acquires demon king status
ok so I wasn't on crack when I saw my PSP-3000 doing that, I ignored it since I didn't think it was a big deal but now that I saw a comparison, I can obviously tell now... At first I thought maybe it's only on UMD movies as I didn't see it much on certain games. Hopefully they fix it through firmware.
Kinda glad I can just cancel my preorder for the Entertainment bundle that's not due out till Nov.
dude, the ghosting, every psp owner has just gotten used to, i realize its supposed to be like that in game... but still, even if it wasnt, theres ghosting and scalene thats 2 problems instead of 1 that weve all come to terms with.
the point is, sony is screwing us all over again by releasing sub-par quality imaging. Most likely just to drive up profit cause of the high piracy rate on the psp.
As if we needed any more ammo to continue buying the Nintendo DS over the PSP. Nice work, Sony!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! ROFL LMFAO AHAHAHAH!!!! WAHHHHHH! MY NEW PSP-3000 is INTERLACING WAHHHH!!! I SHOULDN'T HAVE SOLD MY PSP-2000 ON EBAY WAAHHHHHH!!!! EAT A 8===D Sony!
maybe the new screen is higher res and it's have a problem down scaling to the native PSP res?
Nope, same resolution.
I think the interlacing was always there. It just looks like to me that the screen is a lot finer so you notice it more. Kinda like when people were complaining about how much worse digital tv looked on there new HDTV.
I don't think you kno what you are talking about...
Interlacing shouldn't even exist on an LCD. It was a trick that used to compensate for the slow refresh rate of early CRTs.
Wait, so if this is a feature and anyone has it, then their not giving everyone else their interlaced lines!
I demand compensation!
Once again Sony expects you to deal with the problem rather than fixing it. I like the PSP and all, but this is the second or third time they've done that with this system alone.
okey. PSP3000 is dead.
This is ridiculous 4 of my friends and myself have just bought these 3000 psps. The screen looks great and i dont see a single interlacing problem on any of those screens. Either only some PSPs have this feature or its a completely unnoticable thing, probably started by the same people who said games 'werent 720p'.
Well, it seems like the verdict's pretty much out. There are people bothered by the scanlines (and very bothered, too, enough to return their PSP3000's), and there are those (like above) who don't think it's an issue. So, no, it's not something that doesn't exist. If *you* aren't bothered by it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't bother others. And Sony's confirmed it's a feature of the PSP3000, not on just select ones. It's been admitted by the company itself, people, so it's there.
It probably has something to do with the way the LCD processes the information and updates the screen. Instead of updating the whole screen, it goes back to the old interlacing technique, and updates only even or odd lines (something that LCDs really shouldn't need to do, it was a "feature" on CRTs to display very high res images). Either that, or the system itself was designed like this in the first place, and we can only see it now because of the high refresh rate of this new LCD (the low refresh of the old ones masked the effect, blurring it into motion blur).
Again, some will be bothered by it, some will not. It's an individual thing. However, this means that before buying a PSP3000, you should at least spend some time with a demo or friend's unit, especially playing games/movies with fast action. That way you won't have to buy it just to return it later. Frankly, I think this will become a PR nightmare for Sony, especially with their half-baked response (ha! feature, indeed).
PSP 2000 Vertical pixels compared to the PSP 3000 Horizontal..... main culprit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Psp_subpixels.png
LCDs do refresh. Every TFT subpixel is a transistor-capacitor pair (just like a DRAM bit) that starts to lose charge as soon as it's set, This means a dark pixel starts to fade back to white. Most TFTs refresh the at 60hz, and we all know from CRTs that people can see a 60Hz flicker, so some panels interlace at 120Hz. That way, if there's a flicker, it's on every other line and not so noticeable.
I used to replace laptop screens on a regular basis, and on some panels there is a balance trimpot you have to tweak to eliminate interlace flicker.
Anyway, given the right image and ambient light, I can see interlacing flicker on a lot of smaller, low-power TFTs. The DS has it, so does the iPhone (original is worse than 3G).
If I were to venture a guess, I think the PSP3000 screen is interlacing slower.
Well I bouhgt a 3004 with the FIFA09 and when I started playing, the first thing I saw were that scan lines. I went to the store and i've changed it for a 2000 one...
The color, the response time, the shades it's all true and you can see it but that lines... please tell me that sony guys didn't saw taht ...
Sorry my english...
The screen is better therefore the games have to get rid of the interlacing... downgrading the screen isn't the solution. Upgrading the games, is.
i bought a psp 3000 from circuit city and returned it the same day! reason? interlacing! so i ended up ordering the psp 2000 on amazon. anyone has experienced the same problem on psp 2000 or other problems besides interlacing?
this is bullshit everyone i looked at a psp 3000 i played ratchet and clank it was perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! realy good graphics i could not see the pixels