Microsoft's
Robbie Bach feigned an uninterested yawn at
Apple's 6.9 million iPhones figure in an interview with
BusinessWeek the other day. He wasn't particularly insulting of the product, but didn't think the number means too much in the long run. "Apple had a big launch of a new product, and they launched at scale in a lot of new countries with a lot of new [wireless] operators. This quarter, RIM is having its big launch, and at some point we'll have our big launch. We'll have to see where things normalize." While that statement is encouraging for the fact that it semi-implies that
Windows Mobile 7 is supposed to be released at "some point," we're not sure we're picking up what Robbie is putting down -- 6.9 million of a single device seems to imply a bit more than "launch buzz." Things devolved quickly when Bach started spouting about how carriers want a balanced ecosystem. That may be true, but consumers are the ones that buy the phones, and if their RAZR buying habits are any indication, "ecosystem" isn't their top priority.
[Via
Electronista]
posted October 24th 2008 9:08AM
To be honest, I'd prefer to see Microsoft as far away from the iPhone as possible for the simple reason that their usual business practice is to release a hobbled version of an application, then point at it and laugh. Brad Brooks's comments a couple of weeks ago on the Apple Tax is a wonderful demonstration of this since he describes Office:mac as a "stripped-down versions that don't have nearly the amount of features, or the usability like the ribbon on Office". And who makes Office:mac? Nice, Brad, real nice.
I'd much prefer to see companies developing for the iPhone (or any other platform, for that matter) who don't have a conflict of interests.
I will note, since perhaps my last comment doesn't show it, that I have a lot of respect for the Mac Business Unit and the work that they manage to do in a company where their success surely is not desired. Brad made note that the Office:mac version of MS Office is inferior because it doesn't include the Ribbon but oddly neglected to mention that this was done intentionally because no one actually likes the Ribbon and MBU heard this feedback loud and clear. The MBU could, no doubt, produce good software for the iPhone but I suspect that they will be forced to cripple it versus the software available for Windows Mobile.
@Kelmon : Like Apple doesn't cripple iTunes for Windows? I've used iTunes on Windows and OS X, and the Windows version is really horrible, while the OS X version is much more nicer. Safari for Windows first came out with a lot of bugs, and still isn't even a decent desktop browser.
I think you're also stretching it a bit by saying "no one actually likes the Ribbon". I know a LOT of people who love the Ribbon interface. Those that can't except change or even try getting used to a different type of interface are that ones that don't like it. The visual layout, and the placement of commands into tabs make it easy to use. It's so logical, that I find it hard to believe someone would hate it.
There's a world of difference between purposefully crippling an application and simply not making a good version. I do not know what the reason is why iTunes does not work well for Windows but I am 100% certain that it is not on purpose. Certainly you don't hear Apple telling reporters that iTunes for Windows is worse than iTunes for OS X and that people should buy the Mac version for a better experience. Producing bad software for Windows is hardly likely to encourage people to switch to the Mac, is it?
And, no, no one likes the Ribbon. Seriously. The Mac Business Unit had every intention of bringing it over from Office 2007 to Office:mac 2008 but their customers told them not to. It isn't because the couldn't do it but simply because no one wanted it. And the customer is always right. Even the Windows version had to be scaled back for the release but by that time it was too late.
FYI - the principle problem with the Ribbon is simply that the Office interface has remained largely unchanged since I can remember (back with Office for Windows 3.1) and everyone knew where everything they needed was. The Ribbon had laudable goals but it fundamentally changed the interface for existing users. New users will no doubt get on with it but existing users hate it because they can't find where options now reside. Whoever changed the interface completely for Access 2007 needs to be dragged out into the street and shot.
if wm7 to be released in later 2009, I think an atom or even lower power x86 processor made xp capable phone will flood the market...
I personally can't wait to snap up whatever Microsoft is going to launch, whatever it is they are going to launch, whenever they launch it. I, like hundreds of other people, are chomping at the bit to perhaps buy a Zune integrated WinMo7 phone. Hopefully whatever it is will be built by Motorola, further insuring another 2 years of complete and utter hardware/software HELL for me.
I can has WinMo RAZR plz
Hah, I'd buy that just for the novelty!
I single-handedly just saved moto right there.
"Things devolved quickly when Bach started spouting about how carriers want a balanced ecosystem. That may be true, but consumers are the ones that buy the phones, and if their RAZR buying habits are any indication, "ecosystem" isn't their top priority."
Right. So the networks don't buy and then subsidise the handsets to sell on to their customers. Riiiiiiiiight. That'd be why manufacturers build phones with features that are designed to drive additional revenue for the network like cameras for MMS and the like. That'd be why the N81 wasn't offered by networks in the UK when it had links to Nokia's own music store built in, the networks love and demand their ecosystem be supported over here, because they have the data capacity to shift the information to make the sales possible.
Please remember, the USA is not the world, especially not when it comes to mobile phones.
Ike Turner: Get a clue, man. The lack of MMS and copy-and-paste hasn't been a problem so far, because only message board gurus think that the average consumer actually demands those features. Now, go back to your mom's basement and slap around your helium-inflated, anatomically correct "Tina" doll. Then, have a pop tart and run off to school. Cheers.
Not, appropriate.
Just because you haven't had use for it doesn't mean no one uses them.
Copy and paste is the most essential feature you can think of in a smart phone! Friend sends me a message with his address, and I can go to Google maps and find it but oh wait, I cant copy the frigging address!
Someone calls my phone, whose name is not in my address book. Now if I want to add this number in the phone book, I am not going to memorize it, I am going to C&P it!
Shall i go on......
Is there even such a thing as "average consumers" anymore?
the amount of variations in the mobile market is so high that there is a phone out there to suit pretty much anyone....its not like your granny needs push email, but she might need a simple, easy to use candybar for when some hoodies try to steal her walking stick and werthers originals.
you have jimmy mac boy who needs to be in possesion of everything emblazoned with an apple symbol, who just wants to look 1337, but never sends video messages or copy and pastes, hell he probably doesnt even phone people, but its the right phone for him.
you have the business drone, who is sitting on a tube trying to send nine hundred million emails a day, and look important whilst he wants his phone to be easy to use to do that, so he has a blackberry, or a winmo device maybe even with a stylus to look super awesome.
plus many, many more I am sure...
who cares?
its got to be about finding the right phone for however many niches there are out there, so there will never EVER be an outright "winner" in this game its just going to go on and on and on for ever with people on the tinternets constantly saying "omg, my phone is so much better" "no my phone is teh bestest"
I think on the iphone you just click on the address and it opens in Google Maps - no cut and paste required. Same with the phone number example you gave. Apple have thought about how you use the device WITHOUT cut and paste.
Y3K:NikL: I agree "copy-and-paste" should be in the iPhone, but it's not as bad as you paint it: if you get a call from a new number, you have the option to create a new contact or add it to an existing contact, effectively doing what you wanted 'copy and paste' for in that example, and it's the same for addresses in Google Maps - they can be added to contacts or create new ones.
Again, this is not to say the iPhone doesn't need 'copy and paste,' I'm just pointing out that the iPhone accommodates many of the things you would use 'copy and paste' for by providing the feature you would most need it for at that moment you're using the phone. It's not as crippled as you might think citing your examples.
Lack of copy paste on my iPhone didn't bother me for a long time. Then all of the sudden one day I found myself wanting it. It still isn't hugely critical for me, but when I want it it's a major annoyance that I don't have it. Please Apple, copy paste. We want it.
Robbie is forgetting that this is 1 SKU. How many different SKU's does RIM have? Not an apple fanboy, just sayin'......puts some perspective on it.
7 million?
Seriously, that's supposed to be an achievement? A random Nokia model sells that much, and their series only last about 2 years. Call me when the iPhone reaches at least 10% of Nokias best selling model. Which will be in 5 more million units sold.
Nokia's all time best selling model has been 1100 which has sold over 200 million units in 5 years. Almost 12 million iPhones have been sold in about 15 months or so. Considering that 1100 is one of the cheapest cell phone model sold around the globe. This figure is still impressive when you compare it with RAZR (50 million sold in 4 years). So iPhone, which is a smartphone, has sales which are comparable to best selling dumbphones. And considering the fact that for almost a year the phone was just sold in the US and Apple created acute stock shortage for couple of months to boost sales.
BTW, forget 10%, iPhones currently outsells Nokia's "best selling" smart phones and Blackberries. In both US and in Europe.
Listen - Apple are, in revenue terms, the number 3 mobile phone manufacturer in the world after 15 months selling one phone. 3rd in the world behind Nokia and Samsung - this quarter they will likely overtake Samsung. This is not a number of handsets contest but actual revenue - anyone can turn out shit $10 phones and sell them by the boatload - this is 3rd largest selling only 1 phone in the smartphone price range.
That is outstanding.
@Mark M
Oh for heaven's sake get a grasp of supply and demand!
Quoting that a company is the third biggest phone company by revenue in one quarter means nothing because the quarter reflects where that company has had it's product launch. Let's see what the average over the year is before we get out the bunting and ticker tape.
As an iPhone and Apple Powerbook owner, all I have to say is I've noticed some very heavy anti-Microsoft tone in Engadget's posts. Quit being such fanboys. BTW - I also use Vista on my work PC and it's the most stable platform I've ever used. I prefer everything about it over OS X. Fanboy sites completely succeeded in giving Vista a bad rep, for no reason other than some "brand loyalty" mumbo jumbo. I look forward to Windows 7.
No way - Vista is the biggest pile of shit ever since ME. The entire networking stack needs rewriting - have you actually tried to create an adhoc wireless network on Vista - absolutely hopeless. That combined with the overbearing security frameworks, inconsistent UI, resource requirements and API's that are so unbelievably complex and inconsistent.
Microsoft are struggling - Google for the recent discussions on the web about how they have changed the way the internal MS development teams are working together - it's truly an inditement of what a state they are in.
They are fighting competition they can no longer just buy off like they have done in the past - Google, Apple et al are taking huge chunks out of their market - this in combination with the fact that companies have woken up to the OS/Office cycle scam and have stepped off that train and you can only see a decline in their fortunes.
They have one attempt to turn it around with Windows 7 - if they f*ck up like so many of their recent projects they are in huge trouble.
Unix will win out in the end.
@Mark M
I gave you a chance in your previous post because I just assumed you were merely ignorant of economics. Now I see that you're just plain ignorant.
You're an embarrassment to the rest of us who unfortunately share the same forename as you. Please change it to 'moron' or 'fanboy' to rectify this situation.
"Sarig @ Oct 24th 2008 9:23AM
Do you think Apple can sustain these kind of figures?"
They can if they continue to have "exciting" new features in the next model. To me, the 3G wasn't it as it was perhaps the iPhone that should have been in the first place. Still, I stuck with my original iPhone because the 3G wasn't enough to get me to upgrade. What I'm looking for in a real next gen iPhone is a much better screen, better camera perhaps with video and at least 32 GB of storage. It also needs to have better battery life and faster 3G speed while maintaining the same form factor. But it will be hard to maintain that "gotta have it" factor in the face of so many other new "exciting" phones coming out from other manufacturers.
With respect, Robbie's hardly going to be suggesting that the iPhone is going to dominate the market and that Microsoft is doomed. This is a case of "putting on a brave face" and hoping that it will all go away. If you want a good opinion of something or a situation, don't bother asking a competitor.
@LaughingMan
Yeah, because it looks "pretty".
That's the substance, if you can call it that.
Whether or not Microsoft is being harsh on Apple in this instance, this news article certainly is an interesting front-pager for msn.com.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/why-the-ipod-is-doomed.aspx?GT1=33002
First they ignore you..
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win.
-M.K. Gandhi
Microsoft is at the second step...
Did you seriously just compare Mahatma Ghandi to Apple, Inc.?
The sheer arrogance and stupidity has literally left me dumbfounded.
Yes 6.9M units is not a large number on a global scale and Nokia sells boat loads of phones everyday but you guys arent comparing apples with apples (haha, no pun intended). Apple only sells one model of phone and Nokia sells how many and how long have they been selling phones? Apple entered the game less than 2 years ago and doing pretty good (In Larry's voice off of Curb). Single handedly they created change, started a revolution, made other companies switch their style up. I know touchscreen phones have been out for a while but none as finely manufactured as the iPhone. Just like their computers, Apple will never be #1 in the world or even close to it in terms of selling phones BUT they will make the phone that everybody will want to have.
Apple is a parasite company. It preys off of the consumer need for new things and shiny toys. It not only treats you like you are an idiot, but it assumes that you wont notice. As a company they are always just slightly ahead of the curve but none of their stuff is earth shattering. Which is why this guys is totally right to yawn. Apple just assumes you are too caught up in what its doing to notice that there are other people in the world and they are doing innovative things too.
I hope you are not saying that MS is doing anything innovative? If they are, or if they have ever, I want to know.
"One, locked down, over controlled, innovation stomping place to get your iPhone lighter."
LOL, so true.
"Apple will never be #1 in the world or even close to it in terms of selling phones BUT they will make the phone that everybody will want to have."
Unless that is, they don't want one. Can that thing even run two apps at once?
You have to give credit where it is due, for all sides. The iPhone is great at many things (UI being the biggest), mainly from a general consumer perspective. At the same time, other phones have had more functionality for awhile.
All that being said, this is typical corporate robo-drone PR from Bach, vaguely reminiscent of Palm's comments except this is actually AFTER a very successful first year for the iPhone. They have to downplay the competition because that's corporate mentality, even if the comments are somewhat laughable. Yes, it remains to be seen if Apple can maintain its momentum in the long run, but it has done a LOT of things right with the iPhone, and its sales have exceeded almost all expectations.
As others have pointed out, the iPOD's seven year domination is certainly no 'fluke', and while Apple's growth is at 29% Microsoft's is at 2%.
It seems to me that the company that is exciting consumers is Apple. When was the last time MS made something that really got people talking? Unless they were talking about Microsoft's bizzare Gates / Seinfeld commercials or how crappy Vista is, there is little buzz being generated by MS.
Apple wouldn't have sold as many of the newer iphones if it didn't launch at a lower price. The first iphone was very expensive because carriers didn't subsidize the costs. Now, carriers and get a bigger share of the profits, it's a good device, but won't ever get one.
Couple of reasons why i don't like apple is because one they control both hardware and software. and 2 I am Gamer. I actually prefer the blackberry over the iphone simple the fact that you can't do MMS which is lame.
If Microsoft did something that created intrest then consumers would look towards them, for example set up a another company that encourages innovation, Kill the Windows name, etc, etc. Risky but worth taking a chance. They are so large both in size and capital that they have lost their way. Their business pratice towards other companies and international standards hasn't help them either. They have a lot of enemies. Sure they well always make money than anyone else for now but the respect will never be there.
Well at leave windows mobile supposrts MMS Messaging unlike my dumb Iphone! http://iwanttosmackstevejobsintheface.com/
i'm kind of amazed at the levels of ignorance here. people might not like windows mobile because of the interface but you can damn well do everything the iphone does (and more) with it. it's not like the interface is super-tough or all that non-intuitive to work with either.
/very pleased with my unlocked bj-II on t-mobile's $6/mo edge. i can surf youtube (and any other flash site) with skyfire, while scrobbling whatever i'm currently listening to on wmp or pocket player - even have a jog wheel to scroll through my music like an ipod. i've got my gmail and my work email being pushed for free with emoze. full gps with google maps. 16gb of memory with a $50 microsd, and more when they release 32gb versions. (there's really no excuse for apple to be stuck at that amount of internal storage when it can be fit into a thumbnail sized chip - at that price!)
Apple is eating Microsoft's breakfast, lunch and dinner. Microsoft makes idle boasts with nothing to back them up. Where's the next versions of Windows Mobile and the Sidekick?
WinMo will be around for a while simply because there are a lot of smart phone manufacturers (hello, HTC) who simply have no choice but to depend on MS for their software. But considering that they're two years behind, any big splashes from MS software seems unlikely.
They say acceptance of your problem is the first step to recovery.
I left Windows Mobile because I had to reboot my phone five times a day and it didn't sync with all my iTunes movies and songs.
Apple really delivered with their smartphone and Microsoft should pay homage and realize they have some catching up to do.
I do miss Microsoft Voice Command, though.