More Windows 7 details emerge ahead of PDC

We should be getting a much bigger dose of Windows 7 details on Tuesday when Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference gets underway, but it seems that some tidbits just can't be kept under wraps, and ZDNet's Mary-Jo Foley now has word of a few more features that are apparently in the forthcoming Windows 7 pre-beta. Chief among those is a so-called Device Stage, which promises to let users more easily interact with a whole range of different devices -- assuming those devices are "Device Stage-enabled' devices, that is (yes, really). Other features supposedly in store include an Action Center that promises to help you troubleshoot problems, a new animation framework to allow for custom animations (which should tie in nicely with the rumored GPU acceleration), tighter integration of the Windows taskbar, an expanded use of Microsoft's so-called "ribbon" interface and, of course, plenty of multi-touch and gesture support.

[Via Electronista]

[josh @ Oct 27th 2008 11:57AM]

Custom animation sounds awesome, i could have a lot of fun messing around with that. All the other stuff isnt too exiting, but i'm glad they're focusing on making it an easy to use and responsive OS, with the ability to fix its problems easily. I think that's the right direction.

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 12:21PM]

Ye, couldn't agree more. What would be much nicer though is if they opened up the themes so that peopel could actually make nice themes as opposed to using very minor changes without that stupid, rubbish, bloatware set of apps like stardock suite, windows blinds, styleXP (even though its vista, i know) and such. Im bored of the vista UI now and theres no way for people to make nice skins. I'd love to see a white variation of vista theme done by MS themselves.

[OneLove @ Oct 27th 2008 12:29PM]

Instead of all this new crap all I want is an effective way in diagnose and resolve my vista errors myself.

How about non cryptic error numbers and messages that don't exist? Or somewhere to actually search for a real solution?

(If you are not going to fix it at least help me too.)

Take a look at your vista event viewer and you will see what I mean. Errors and warnings abound.

[Testies, Testies, 1, 2... 3? @ Oct 27th 2008 12:54PM]

Marketing Slogan: "Because It's Not XP..."

[nerdtalker @ Oct 27th 2008 1:16PM]

So multitouch when apple does it is beyond exciting (even if it's just a bunch of hobbled-together gestures), but full, OS-level multitouch with an API for every single app to use it, using the whole screen as a surface, isn't exciting?

I sense a double standard.

[rattyuk @ Oct 27th 2008 1:22PM]

"Custom animation sounds awesome, i could have a lot of fun messing around with that."

Ya - it was pretty good when it was called CORE ANIMATION.

[wrabbit @ Oct 27th 2008 1:51PM]

@nerdtalker: I wasn't that excited about iPhone's multitouch either, but with Vista - how exactly are you planning on making use of this feature? I don't see a lot of multi-touch, or even plain touch, LCDs floating around. Even when these become common place - how often are people going to actually reach out to their monitor to do something when they can use the mouse to do same thing in 10th of the time. I don't see the point of making desktop OS's multi/touch enabled, at least not yet. I'd much rather they spend their time on making Vista faster and less of a pain in the ass.

[Andir3.0 @ Oct 27th 2008 2:11PM]

When my desk is a large multi-touch monitor, I'll care about multi-touch on the desktop. Until then... I'm not interested.

[Vanillacide @ Oct 27th 2008 2:13PM]

Custom animation?

Maybe we'll see the return of Clippy? This time to the OS ... "It looks like you are trying to torrent a file. I cannot allow you to do that Dave."

[shadowarmy75 @ Oct 27th 2008 4:18PM]

The uxtheme hack allows for theme changing without extra software quite well.

[MioTheGreat @ Oct 27th 2008 7:31PM]

"Ya - it was pretty good when it was called CORE ANIMATION."

We already have WPF, which does a considerable amount of what Core Animation does.

Hopefully what this means is a more open DWM API, which would be closer to how Compiz works, not anything on OSX.

[jpeks @ Oct 27th 2008 8:25PM]

Lenovo's ThinkPad X200 Tablet has a multi-touch screen. I'm not sure how useful it would be, but I'd love to play around with it if nothing else.
Now if only I could afford a new laptop...

[loosely_coupled @ Oct 27th 2008 11:56PM]

@nerdtalker

The primary difference is that Apple has consistently shown itself to be a user interface expert that understands how to craft clean, simple, and highly intuitive UI designs, whereas Microsoft has shown over the years that it just doesn't get it. For a great example, look at the latest version of Windows Mobile versus the iPhone OS. Look at how the interface is laid out -- look at the interaction paradigm. How do you launch applications or pull up your contacts or calendar events? How do you change preferences, or edit data? How many steps does it take to accomplish simple tasks? How long would it take a complete novice to understand the system?

Also, with Multi-touch we are not just talking about a new interface, but a whole new paradigm that is going to replace the traditional mouse and fundamentally alter the way we interact with machines. That is a huge undertaking, and they have to get it right the first time, with an easy-to-use system that is well though out --- lest cause a huge headache. Do you really want the team that HIC/UI team that Vista or Windows mobile to be creating the foundation for an entirely new interaction paradigm that will dominate for the next 20 years?
I say let Apple figure it out with their superior UI team and multi-touch system that they are no doubt working on, and then Microsoft should just copy it. Else we may end up with two entirely different, incompatible gesture systems that will just server to confuse the hell out of everybody.

[Kurian @ Oct 28th 2008 4:47AM]

After horrible experiences with trying to get the simplest things done in Vista, I'm sticking to XP x64 until nothing works on it anymore.

The interface to everything has been made so noobish for morons to understand, that its convoluted for advanced users to directly go to a specific setting or option.

[tcc3 @ Oct 28th 2008 11:10AM]

You mean brilliant UI like the too small window size buttons, the identity crisis burdened dock, and the decoupled from window context sensitive menu bar? How about the UI that doesnt scale? I'd kill for some decent window management in the form of a taskbar.

Apple usually does AI and user experience better, but its by no means perfect.

[Mantikos @ Oct 27th 2008 11:59AM]

Finally an article that is not dissing MicroSoft....thank you engadget for atleast pretending not to be in Apple's pockets!

[Patriks7 @ Oct 27th 2008 12:02PM]

Well I can't find anything in this article that could be dissing Microsoft, so Engadget has an excuse this time :P

[Jash Sayani @ Oct 27th 2008 2:23PM]

How come you guys haven't posted about Windows Azure yet..??

[Mantikos @ Oct 27th 2008 3:36PM]

@ Jash
Cause Apple didint launch it, and doesnt have a competing product their marketing can claim is 'cooler'
therefore no ENGADGET coverage!

[JerkfacedFed @ Oct 27th 2008 5:36PM]

I can, very easily, and this article still pissed me off. The overall tone of the blog is so pompous that you can just tell hes typing it from a mac

-"so called ribbon interface" - its been out for 3 years now since office 12 betas were released!
-"rumored gpu acceleration" - give me a freaking break, and they link to an article trying to state that they are copying apple
-"so called device stage / (yea really)" making it seem complicated or cumbersome

DONALD MELANSON. REPORT THE NEWS, NOT YOUR POMPOUS OPINION. YOUR JOKES ARENT FUNNY

[Patriks7 @ Oct 29th 2008 6:36AM]

Main Entry: blog
Pronunciation: \ˈblȯg, ˈbläg\
Function: noun
: a Web site that contains an online personal journal with reflections, comments, and often hyperlinks provided by the writer ;

How can they not state their opinion if its something PERSONAL?

[Atropos @ Oct 27th 2008 12:01PM]

I like Microsoft. I even like my Vista. But man... is this the lamest, least exciting release of Windows ever or what? At least ME had comedic value. This is just so... blah.

[Derry Quinn @ Oct 27th 2008 12:27PM]

+1

Vista gave me a reason to bitch and moan...maybe this will give me a reason to be productive?

Doubt it.

[BB Sting @ Oct 27th 2008 12:02PM]

"and, of course, plenty of multi-touch and gesture support."

Surely you're referring to Snow Leopard right?

[Erb @ Oct 27th 2008 12:06PM]

I'd at least hope you click the link before calling someone out.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/29/microsoft-on-track-to-release-windows-7-multi-touch-sdk-in-octob/

[Boarderwoot @ Oct 27th 2008 12:02PM]

I clicked on the "Make it easier to read what's on your screen" button and it gave me a list of local eye doctors from the phone book.

[EMoShunz @ Oct 27th 2008 2:06PM]

@thors1982:
while i agree with you in theory, i originally bought my xp pro in late 2002 for just under $300 (and i still use it in my fusion install). no oem, no upgrade as i was coming from apple in order to go to school for programming. so 6 years for $300, equals 6 years of $100 bi-annual releases from os x. so saying it is more is not really fair... same price for sure.

now lets look at vista ultimate (leopard has everything, so i am picking the vista with everything) listed as $320, and being replaced an estimated 4 years later, or $200 worth of os x os's.

and sure apple makes money off their hardware, but i bet the margin on a ms mouse and keyboard is way more than the margin on an imac... just a guess, i don't actually know that.

then comes personal opinion, so xp vs leopard, generic hardware vs apple hardware is all subjective. so i'll keep that out, as i am obviously biased to apple.

point is, os x is really not "a bit higher when you have to buy new versions 2-3 times as fast"

[7on @ Oct 27th 2008 12:03PM]

Lets just hope there aren't 5 different versions. MS just needs to sell one version, and they can afford to sell it at $99.

Sell one version of Windows 7 for $99.99. And make the first account in Windows not the admin account.

And forget about compatibility. Pull an Apple and bundle in XP and have it work like Classic did with Apple's OSX transition.

[bjsguess @ Oct 27th 2008 12:18PM]

That's a great idea. Screw compatibility. It's not like that was the biggest issue with Vista's initial release or anything.

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 12:29PM]

Windows Vista Home Premium OEM = £69.99

Pretty close to Leopard don't you think? Also bear in mind that MS aren't making money on the hardware either.

[curtisrutland @ Oct 27th 2008 12:37PM]

See, that's the thing you have to remember. OSX may be $99, but Apple is raking in the money on the hardware they just sold you. MS isn't selling you a computer, just the OS. So no, $99 isn't really feasible, as nice as that would be.

[thors1982 @ Oct 27th 2008 12:45PM]

Microsoft also don't release OS's every 1-2 years like Apple. Hasn't apple released 6 versions since XP was released. That also makes your $99 price a bit higher when you have to buy new versions 2-3 times as fast.

[EMoShunz @ Oct 27th 2008 2:08PM]

@thors1982:

first, forgive my double post, i clicked the wrong reply button.

while i agree with you in theory, i originally bought my xp pro in late 2002 for just under $300 (and i still use it in my fusion install). no oem, no upgrade as i was coming from apple in order to go to school for programming. so 6 years for $300, equals 6 years of $100 bi-annual releases from os x. so saying it is more is not really fair... same price for sure.

now lets look at vista ultimate (leopard has everything, so i am picking the vista with everything) listed as $320, and being replaced an estimated 4 years later, or $200 worth of os x os's.

and sure apple makes money off their hardware, but i bet the margin on a ms mouse and keyboard is way more than the margin on an imac... just a guess, i don't actually know that.

then comes personal opinion, so xp vs leopard, generic hardware vs apple hardware is all subjective. so i'll keep that out, as i am obviously biased to apple.

point is, os x is really not "a bit higher when you have to buy new versions 2-3 times as fast"

[Andir3.0 @ Oct 27th 2008 3:32PM]

@thors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_windows#Timeline_of_releases

Lets go down the list of years here..
- November 1985 - Windows 1.01
2 November 1987 - Windows 2.03
1 March 1989 - Windows 2.11
1 May 1990 - Windows 3.0
2 March 1992 - Windows 3.1x
0 October 1992 - WfW 3.1
0 July 1993 - Windows NT 3.1
0 December 1993 - WfW 3.11
0 January 1994 - Windows 3.2 (Chinese)
0 September 1994 - Windows NT 3.5
0 May 1995 - Windows NT 3.51
0 August 1995 - Windows 95
1 July 1996 - Windows NT
2 June 1998 - Windows 98
0 May 1999 - Windows 98 SE
0 February 2000 - Windows 2000
0 September 2000 - Windows Me
1 October 2001 - Windows XP
1 March 2003 - Windows XP 64-bit Edition 2003
0 April 2003 - Windows Server 2003
2 April 2005 - Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
1 July 2006 - Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs
0 November 2006 - (volume licensing) Vista
0 January 2007 - (retail) Vista
0 July 2007 - Windows Home Server
0 February 2008 - Windows Server 2008

You're absolutely right, Microsoft doesn't release a new OS every 1-2 years. It's more like every 0 - 1 years.

[Paul @ Oct 27th 2008 4:51PM]

@andir, your not being quite fair here saying that releasing the 64bit version is a "New Version" or saying that releasing a new Server operating system counts as a new version.

I can not speak for earlier versions of windows (prior to 95) because I do not know enough about how major / minor the versions where, but in this case I feel the following is a more realistic release schedule:

August 1995 - Windows 95
June 1998 - Windows 98
May 1999 - Windows 98 SEr
February 2000 - Windows 2000
September 2000 - Windows Me (dear god this one should not count)
October 2001 - Windows XP
January 2007 - (retail) Vista

In the same period of time, Apple has released:
7.5
7.6
8
8.1
8.5
9
9.1
9.2
10
10.1
10.2
10.3
10.4
10.5

(as per http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/60046c6c00050988490be73cab244165.png )

All of the above is kinda pointless though because comparing MS Windows releases to Apple's Mac OS releases is like comparing Bananas to Peaches, they are both fruit but that's about all they have in common. Both companies emphasize different aspects of the operating system in their releases and follow completely different schedules.

[Andir3.0 @ Oct 27th 2008 7:13PM]

I'm being 100% completely fair. Sure, you don't have to buy Windows 2003 When it comes out, but you don't HAVE to upgrade OSX either. Both are consumer choices. Minor upgrades to keep the system fresh is a good thing IMHO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have to buy every upgrade. Only the ones that make you say, "Oooh, I want/need that." It's getting fuzzier now because Microsoft's stranglehold on gaming pretty much demands that anyone that wants a new feature is forced to upgrade. What has Apple done recently that made people upgrade?

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 7:57PM]

Andir? Wtf? You're an idiot (thanks to the grammer boys :D)

Windows Server 2003 is what it says on the tin. A SERVER OS. Its not a desktop OS. The replacement is server 2008 which came out to fully support vista in a buisness enviroment, just like 2003 to XP and 2000 to umm.... 2000. It dosen't count, they go hand in hand. Its actually cheating to call it windows, Its a completely different OS (except for 2008 which is a vastly modified version of Vista 64bit). The only similarities they carry are the kernel and a similarish UI (although if you've used it, the organisation of things on server 2003 just screams KDE).

Everything between 3.1x and NT3.5 were essentially service packs.

Windows NT was essentially a buisness orientated version of 95.

Windows 98 SE (second edition FYI) was only a service pack to 98. The only reason it cost anything is because CD's were the most practical distribution system at the time.

So bassically, No, theres only a about 7 desktop OS's there (6 if according to MS but anyway :P).

So essentially, Don't just copy and paste massive chunks from wikipedia. Its not clever, it just makes you look extremely dumb.

[Kelmon @ Oct 28th 2008 10:59AM]

I don't much mind having to choose between a Home and Business version of the OS but that's as far as it should go and, frankly, a single version would make a customer's life much easier. This trend towards selling multiple versions of essentially the same product just confuses new buyers.

[Ike Turner @ Oct 27th 2008 12:04PM]

MS just announced Skynet..errr Windows Azure : http://www.microsoft.com/azure/default.mspx

[What the Frack?! @ Oct 27th 2008 12:06PM]

So basically this is just Vista 1.5?

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 12:10PM]

Bassically, although its good its called windows 7. It will help reclaim the good reputation of windows that vistas bad press (which 90% of was simply hear-say) lost it.

[Alejandro @ Oct 27th 2008 4:02PM]

@What the Frack?!: Shhhhhhhh!!!! We don't say the V-word anymore! Consumers hate it with a passion, so we went back to just plain old Windows (which people love. ha!),

Fixed the bugs (cross fingers) and added some buzzwords to the mix (like multitouch --it will be fun to see MS's version of multitouch, still with radio buttons and other mouse-borne controls), and charging for it all over again!! Fun stuff. Maybe they will be able to stop supporting XP in 2011.

[vvtopkar @ Oct 27th 2008 6:56PM]

@Alejandro,
Dude, seriously, shut up.
I don't know if you've been around here for too long, but we don't quote apple on Engadget. You start to loose the cool factor.

Uncool Looser.

[Vance @ Oct 27th 2008 12:08PM]

I hope Windows 7 performs better than Vista on a laptop. I got tired of the hard disk running for 10 minutes after I booted. Slows everything down.

I know some are happy with Vista, but those are people that have it on a 24/7 desktop and the indexing and other stuff happens when you're not sitting down.

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 12:12PM]

Thats your laptop manufacturers fault for filling it with crap. NOTHING to do with windows. I have a Dell Vostro 1400 (2GHz C2D, 2GB RAM) and i installed vista on it myself so its clean and its perfectly nippy and responsive.

[wuzy @ Oct 27th 2008 5:08PM]

ADD MORE F*CKING RAM!
2x2GB SODIMM DDR2 are dirt cheap (unless you buy it from Apple). NO EXCUSES!

[tim @ Oct 27th 2008 12:08PM]

Yet again we are proven: Windows 7 = Windows Mojave... Just a different name, but still Windows Vista.
Besides the interface tweaks, is Microsoft going to fix the many bugs that plague Vista???

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 12:16PM]

You sir, are incapable of reading or are just posting hearsay (i was going to put fail but i didn't feel it was justified :P )

Microsoft have fixed 90% of the issues with vista and all the major ones. The only so called "issues" now are either so minor its barely worth noting them or are simply things which people don't like (i.e. its opinion of that person, not a truth about vista).

[Skyride @ Oct 27th 2008 12:16PM]

You sir, are incapable of reading or are just posting hearsay (i was going to put fail but i didn't feel it was justified :P )

Microsoft have fixed 90% of the issues with vista and all the major ones. The only so called "issues" now are either so minor its barely worth noting them or are simply things which people don't like (i.e. its opinion of that person, not a truth about vista).

[Justin @ Oct 27th 2008 12:23PM]

What the hell bugs "plague" Vista?