More Windows 7 details emerge ahead of PDC
By Donald Melanson 
posted October 27th 2008 11:51AM
posted October 27th 2008 11:51AM
We should be getting a much bigger dose of Windows 7 details on Tuesday when Microsoft's Professional Developers Conference gets underway, but it seems that some tidbits just can't be kept under wraps, and ZDNet's Mary-Jo Foley now has word of a few more features that are apparently in the forthcoming Windows 7 pre-beta. Chief among those is a so-called Device Stage, which promises to let users more easily interact with a whole range of different devices -- assuming those devices are "Device Stage-enabled' devices, that is (yes, really). Other features supposedly in store include an Action Center that promises to help you troubleshoot problems, a new animation framework to allow for custom animations (which should tie in nicely with the rumored GPU acceleration), tighter integration of the Windows taskbar, an expanded use of Microsoft's so-called "ribbon" interface and, of course, plenty of multi-touch and gesture support.
[Via Electronista]
[Via Electronista]
Call me daft if you want (glances at 1.6TB of storage through acrylic side panel) but 80GB HDD's are stupid. 500GB HDD's can be had for less than £45 now so to get 80GB is insane. I'd never put anything less than 360GB in a PC i was building these days. I know you say you don't need it now, maybe so, but you are buying this computer to last you some time.
What, no arrogant snide degrading comments about how Microsoft is FAIL and Vista sucks in this post?
I am surprised.
I guess all of you just skipped over the fact that Windows 7 has a completely re-written kernel.
Disregard the fact that the kernel can run on a 100 mhz Pentium class processor, and only needs 25 mb. of RAM.
Yeah, that's pretty meh.
aparently you missed the part where it said it was only a command line interface with ONLY a webserver in that version of the "minwin" kernel
also Linux can boot on devices with less 4mb ram with a graphical interface
Linux supports thousands of logical processors while windows 7 only 64
Linux does not impose software ram limits although i think some distributions do (and that can relealativly easily be fixed)
Linux runs on multiple architectures windows only ARM x86 and x64 and ARM really doesn't even count since you can't run normal apps on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP32 read this ... and yes it does say that the processor clocks from 20-133mhz minwin won't be running on a 20mhz processor
so even in it's most distilled state windows is probably 100x more bloated than the darwin (Mac OS X kernel), Linux or BSD kernels
What do you think a kernel is? Of course it's a command-line window only.
Linux is a whole different animal supported by an open source community. You mean to tell me that millions of coders can write support for additional functionality before Apple or Microsoft can? I'm shocked!
Linux does not natively run on any hardware, either. You have to heavily modify code to run on alternative systems, like a Game Boy, iPod, PS2, etc. This isn't a fair comparison, because at this point it's not so much Linux as it is a custom OS altogether. Just because you can group them in the same family doesn't mean it's the same animal.
Windows 7's kernel, running on a 100mhz CPU with 25 mb. of RAM is damn impressive. The kernel hasn't been that small since Windows 98--and this is a full-fledged, forward looking system.
Exactly, no add-ons isn't thrilling but frankly all my FF add-ons were Fasterfox, NoScript and Cooliris with just the latter being more important.
PDC started this morning (Monday a opposed to Tuesday as listed in the article) I'm in the morning keynote now learning about Windows Azure (Cloud)
I think one too many consumers believe the mac commercials word for word. Just let the product speak for itself instead of the critics.
"Hasn't apple released 6 versions since XP was released."
First OS X was released in 2001 (like XP if I'm not mistaken). We're currently on OS X 5 so no, not 6 versions.
The imminent release of the "revolutionary" snow leopard which will be out before windows 7 makes it 6.
And can I ask you, whats actually CHANGED on those 6 versions? Other than a few new pointless apps and the thickness of the machine it runs on?
I have no idea as I just switched to Mac last year.. but I can't imagine there being much to change except for some visual stuff..
@Skyride
What changed in Linux? What changed in Windows? What changed in any OS during that time? Here's a tip - do some research to answer these questions. It's not like Apple makes this sort of thing a secret as you can read the marketing and technical blurb on their website on each release. Suffice to say that during the releases new frameworks and features were added for developers (10.3 introduced Cocoa Bindings, for example) while end-users got new updated applications and OS services. I can't think of a release that didn't deliver quite a lot, particularly considering the price, but if you are looking for a list then we're going to be here for a while. Suggesting that nothing changed much between 10.2 and 10.6 is a bit like me saying that Vista is XP with a new skin, which we both know is rubbish.
"a new animation framework to allow for custom animations"
Core Animation anyone?
Come one. We can't have a post about MS in which some fanboy doesn't point that out.
Actually, a considerable amount of what Core Animation does is already implemented by Windows Presentation Foundation, which came out before Leopard (It was even being demoed by its codename Avalon before 10.4!)
I'm hoping this means a DWM API, which would be a lot closer to how Compiz Fusion plugins work.
if MS has any sense they will release Windows 7 as a free update to Vista who in thier right mind would pay for Windows 7 on a brand new computer with the nearly brand new vista anyway (brand new in the sense that it is just now gaining some reluctant acceptance) !?
Meanwhile I continue using Linux happily
"a new animation framework to allow for custom animations (which should tie in nicely with the rumored GPU acceleration)"
Rumored GPU acceleration >? Vista runs aero through the GPU as well as Windows Movie Maker why is a feature that exists in Vista a rumor for Windows 7 ?
Look people first of all windows 7 is not vista. Second, if Microsoft tell you every thing that they fix in windows 7 or add it will give apple fuel to add to its on OS. you seen what happen to zune 2.
actually it should be Vista sp3 or something like that... they stand the chance to REALLY lose market share on this one
and how exactly is it not vista... it will mostly look the same to the user AFAIK why should the user care what kernel is running?
As someone who just taught a 46-year-old physical therapist how to cut, copy, and paste - I'm just considering the horror that will be gesture recognition when exposed to the masses. This is something that CGI professionals like, and I'm sure I'd love fairly quickly, but if I were a corporate trainer a larger percentage of my time, I'd be the town drunk within a year of Win7's release.
Go MS. I think that 2009 is going to be a good year for them if they roll out W7 and WM7 and give most of what they promise.
bottom line is performance, if its the same as vista it will still loose. Vista lags even on good hardware compared to xp, or linux.
I seriously cannot believe some of the comments people are making.
How can we call this Vista SP3? Because it looks like Vista? That's a poor basis. Windows 2000 looks a lot like Windows 95, and obviously there is much different going on under the hood. Also, what about OSX? 10.5 looks just like 10.0. This doesn't mean it's the same, only similar.
Microsoft would be smart not to play out all of their cards. Under-hype and over-deliver is the key here, and they certainly don't want to do the reverse like they did with Vista, and leave people disappointed. It's still going to be some time before 7 comes out, don't flush all of your concerns down the drain with the expectation that 7 will not support new features.
The kernel should matter to everyone. This is going to massively speed up Windows, as well as the drop for previous architecture support. 7 will feature a backwards-compatibility engine that starts when you run an legacy app. and closes when that app. ends. Hence, it will not run support for older applications all the time, which is why people complain about Vista being slow. Of course it's slow--Microsoft is supporting your decade-old software via .dll libraries which are constantly being run!
(I personally think it's awesome how 7 will start the compatibility system when needed and shut it down when not needed. This, along with the new kernel, should provide for a massive boost in speed.)
Gestures are going to be great for those of us in the IT world. For those of us who are not tech-inclined, this may be a slight headache. Ladies and Gentlemen, let's not forget that if you're reading this blurb on Engadget, you're probably paying your bills because you support people who don't know what the Task Bar is. Their ignorance is your career, you should revel in this.
Also, GPU-accelerated functionality also seems like a win-win. GPUs move towards parallel-processing while CPUs move independently, and together would provide a massive boost in functionality to the common PC. Nevermind Intel and Larrabee, that's a pipe dream that we've yet to see materialize--and I put little stock in Intel's graphical department. If they were shooting to impress anyone with x4500 or with Poulsbo, they've really fell short.
Windows 7 is going to be a sleek, performance monster even on older hardware, that still supports your legacy applications natively when necessary without any configuration or customization needed. Match that to lighter resource requirements, greater PC control, and tie in GPU-added performance and you've got a winner in my mind.
Justin, Simply can't agree more.
Unfortunatley Im 15 so i am not paying my bills from other peoples ignorance (infact im probably lucky im not paying the bills at all :) ). I grew up on windows right up till windows XP. It was the introduction of XP that initially got me interested in computers so I have microsoft alot to thank for that.
I think we really have to look at how computers are going to progress into the future.Everything is becoming standardised. Which is good, but we will reach a point where it comes bad. I persnally believe this point will be reached when SoC (system on chip) starts to creep into devices other than phones, smartphones and PDA's. That takes away all customisability from a hardware perspective.
Right now the biggest issue is lazy dev's. Developers are the problem. All the hardware designers are pouring vast amounts of time, money and effort into future technologies but the software dev's are too lazy. The most obvious example right now is probably quad core optimisation but its far from the biggest issue.
Nvidia have actually created an entire programming language (CUDA) designed for GPU processing and its get very little take-up from anyone outside the gaming industry. Theres all this exciting stuff happening in the hardware industry, they are ready for a near explosion in new technologies but the fat, lazy dev's atm simply can't be bothered.
So, no live blogging of the PDC? Oh wait, this site is all about h/w and not s/w eh?
Don't worry, there's nothing new at PDC. Don't mind that whole cloud computing thing "Azure" they announced this morning, that they say "will be a core business model for the next 50 years." Nothing important there.
Also, don't worry about tomorrow morning's announcements about Windows 7 and some very surprising announcements.
/at PDC
Yeah, I realized that there was nothing here about Azure. Huh. Strangely MobileMe posts are spread over multiple pages. Fun!
Did they add the up button back to explorer?
Consolidate the control panel? ahem *networking*
Ribbon is cool for people who can actually think, sadly most cannot, are procedure-oriented and fear change. Classic UI option should fall back to XP-like UI and ask the first time a user logs in instead of making them find it. (Same goes for Office)
Blah Blah Blah, Whatever...
I'm a bit of an inbetweener here, not a novice not an expert so bear with me if i make any mistakes.
I have worked with windows vista since it was in beta, and i really like it, On my machines it does run fast, and it is relatively pretty.
I HATE internet explorer with a passion, and windows mail, gallery, 'anytime upgrade', Calendar, UAC, games... etc.
So i use third party apps. like firefox, etc.
Why is there no option to turn these off, like in previous versions of Windows. I'm sure these add some bloat to my system and it would simplify my menus alot to rather than having to search through everything. Is there even a folder I can delete these programs from?
@Bill:
They don't WANT YOU turning these default apps off. God forbid you might have a.... [shudder].... choice!
yeah well, I hope they address this in Windows 7.
I had to reinstall windows live messenger just today and a similiar annoyance occured. the installer asks me on FOUR different occasions if i wanted to set my search to live searh and install the live toolbar. Serve your customers, microsoft don't badger them.
I don't mind bloatware as long as i at least have the option of uninstalling it!
Windows Mail, Photo Gallery, and Calendar aren't going to be installed by default in Windows 7. There's an option to download Windows Live versions of these apps (which are pretty nifty, in Wave 3).
IE8 has been fantastic in Beta 2, and you can still install other browsers, but maybe they'll finally allow you to uninstall IE, as long as there's a web browser on your system (so dumb users don't rid their access to the Internet completely).
You can already disable UAC, and they're making refinements to the UAC in Windows 7 so it will actually be more useful and less annoying.
I don't really understand why so many people hate on Vista for being "buggy" and "slow." When Vista was first released, I would have to agree that it was fairly unstable and would run fairly fairly slow on my hardware (which is by no means great anymore, AMD 64 3700+, 1gb DDR 400, PCI-E 6600gt, very very slow/old primary HDD) but after the first few months of updates, it's been running great. There definitely is no longer as huge of a performance loss switching between XP and Vista as there used to be and many of the new "features" from the updates are actually pretty good. I'm not saying I love Vista, considering I hated how it ran when it was first released, but MS has made it a fairly stable OS with some nice new features.
As a side note, I'm pretty sick of all the comments on every article about Vista/7 that act like MS is just straight copying Apple...Many of the features/developments in Vista and coming in 7 were being worked on years ago and before Apple released it in their OS...which would mean they're late to the show, but acting like MS hadn't come up with some of the ideas on their own is basically just fanboys lying to themselves to feel better about their product.
I enjoy using Apple's latest installment maybe more so than Vista, but I don't see why anyone wouldn't want MS to improve their OS which a vast majority of the computers you may end up using are going to have on them.
@zer06ame:
I partially agree with you. MS has been TALKING about including a lot of these features in their OS for a LONG, LONG time... I remember when Vista was known as "Longhorn"... 5+ years in the making, it was released as Vista with a shorter feature list. Vaporware is NOT an OS. Until anything is released, it does not exist. In the history of the world, it is those who actually achieve something that can take credit. So, we'll see (up for grabs, this one).
As for Windows vs Mac: I absolutely agree with you that there is no reason why anyone should not want Windows to improve, as it is still installed in the vast majority of PC's in the world. Therefore: copy on Microsoft!!! I sure as hell wouldn't mind my office PC OS to resemble OS X in quite a few ways!
Just a thought, but before you accuse Apple of copying Microsoft because Microsoft had Feature X in development for years, how do you know the same is not true of Apple? They don't exactly shout this sort of thing from the rooftops so suggesting that they copied is assumption made on little information.
Ultimately, getting the product to market tends to matter more than who had the idea first. Certainly it matters much more than my comment.
so take the animations of ubuntu beryl, further rival appearance of mac os, and put mac's multi-touch to shame (hopefully). i just want vista to take a bit less of my tasty ram, and maybe make its "classic" interface animatable cuz i have a hunch that youll only be able to animate in the "standard" vista theme. i'm not that big a fan of gpu acceleration, but i hope that this animation customization can make a better method of switching apps than aero, which was pretty "neat" when vista came out but is of absolutely no use to me--- the only thing i envy apple users for is their f9 button... :(
Stunning!!! It looks just like Vista... Way to innovate, Microsoft. 7 looks like Vista SP2 "R2", "OSR2", "Second Edition".
Does anyone know if these updates include software support for .gif images again? Vista sorely lacks in that department, it makes me yearn for Picture and Fax Viewer!
"30% more clicks to get stuff done compared to Office 2003"
For some reason, I find it takes less clicks to do commands compared to Office '03. Can you tell me at least 5 such commands in Office '07 that make it more arduous compared to the older version? I'm interested in what these commands are.
Just finding where the ruddy commands are versus previous versions is what tends to sap the time. It is for this reason that I fear the further introduction of the Ribbon interface into Windows, unless they will provide the option for a Classic interface as normal. The goals of the Ribbon are laudable and I am sure that new users will find it organises things logically, but I don't know any long-time Office users who like the Ribbon since it just completely different organisation compared to all previous versions.
Personally, I'd like to get my hands on the bastard who completely messed up Access in Office 2007.
Hahaha.
First, it was an example and I never said it was a file system.
Second, why does anyone want anything? Maybe we should all just stand still and never make any progress whatsoever. Maybe WinFS didn't make sense in that particular pre-Vista incarnation but should that mean they shouldn't take it in a different direction and build a file system that does make sense. You can't tell me that they can do no better than NTFS.
Third, it's not necessarily about wanting any one particular feature. It's about all the hype that goes into these new products that never pans out in the end. Don't promise me things you have no intention of delivering on. Vista went from this fantastic concept to a huge joke. Now, instead of fixing something they already sold us, let's just talk about the next product and all it's new features we'll never actually see either.
Finally, as Director of IT for a Fortune 1000 company, I do know what I want and what said features would give me. Thanks for questioning, though, Mr. Smart Ass. If you ever want a job, please let me know. I would love the opportunity to fire you for being a know-it-all prick.