There's some hysterical outrage out there right now over the New Xbox Experience's HD Netflix HDCP restrictions -- apparently it only works with HDCP-compliant digital displays, which is prompting a lot of hand-wringing about copyright restrictions and whether older 360s will get "locked out." Well, we're here to make it all better -- that's our NXE-equipped 360 connected over component, happily playing back HD Netflix at 1080i. See? Works fine. The problem is that some older LCD monitors don't support HDCP over DVI, so if you're in the minority of people using an HDMI to DVI adapter to drive an older display that doesn't do HDCP, HD Netflix won't work, since it can't authenticate. That's not the best situation, but DVI isn't a default supported 360 output, so we wouldn't expect 100 percent compatibility -- and besides, you can
always run VGA. We're waiting on official confirmation from Microsoft of all this -- we want to get things absolutely right -- but in the meantime you can console yourself with another shot of HD
Heroes over component after the break.
Update: Yes, it works with movies too -- we just tried it with
The Orphanage (above), and it looked great.
posted Oct 30th 2008 12:37PM
good to know........I'm gonna hook my 360 up via component since my 2 HDMI slots on my TV have my PS3 & Cable box in them.......
debunk:
HDCP is not exclusive to HDMI. There are many DVI ports in this world that support HDCP.
Also, these restrictions are enforced by the movie studios. So Heroes isn't a good test, as it isn't a movie. It's the same as the thing where people bitched that on the PS3 you can't redownload your HD movies, but on the 360 movie store you can. Except the 360 doesn't sell HD movies, it sells other (TV-based) HD content, so again these restrictions, which come from the studios, don't apply.
The big thing to remember is the same rules apply to everyone who streams/sells/rents HD movies, since the studios make the rules. That means if (for example) AppleTV can do it, the Netflix client on the 360 can do it. And last I checked, AppleTV allows you to rent HD movies over component out in HD resolution.
Netflix movie streaming lineup just still isn't worth mentioning. I can see Heroes for free in several other places, what I want is movies, and Netflix selection of movies to stream is old, old, old. And again, this comes from the studios, it's the same reason AppleTV mostly has catalog titles too.
Some devices, like the Vudo however, require HDMI for HD. WHen they made their deal with the studios, Vudo didn't have enough pull to say no to HDMI.
Your argument makes no sense. It's not like the reason for requiring HDCP goes away if you're renting an HD movie versus buying an HD movie.
No, his/her argument makes no sense because he/she is forgetting that every content distributor (Apple, Netflix, etc) is free to negotiate their own agreements with the studio. Whether Apple iTunes can do something has no bearing whatsoever on whether Netflix can do it...maybe Apple negotiated an "better" (different) agreement with the studios.
If the studios just made the rules and that was it, you'd have every content provider in the world offering the same exact thing at the same exact price and we all know that isn't what happens.
The studios may make the rules, but the rules are different for everyone EXCEPT the studios.
Have you checked the netflix watch instantly library lately??? They recently made a deal with Starz to get all the StarzPlay movies...
So by "old, old, old" you must be talking about movies like:
Ratatouille
Superbad
Walk Hard
Enchanted
No Country for Old Men
All 3 Pirates of the Caribbean movies
The Illusionist
Grindhouse: Planet Terror and Death Proof
Those are just the ones in the top 50...
That being said, there is definite room for improvement... most brand new release titles aren't available to watch instantly, but for a free service on top of DVDs in the mail, I'd say Netflix's catalog is pretty impressive.
johnzilla:
No they're not free to get their own agreements. The studios work together (probably illegally, frankly) and license out the same titles for the same prices to everyone on the same terms. There's really very little negotiating at all about it. I suppose they could negotiate for worse terms if they wanted. Negotiating for better terms would be difficult as you have no leverage.
We do have all the companies offering the same things, and at similar prices. The prices aren't the same, as the companies have different business models and profit margins.
Basically, it works like this. The studios rank the places they sell/place their content by how important and how much revenue they will get from them. First-run theaters are at the top, oddly, showing on airplanes seems to be second, then "first-run" DVDs, then movie channels, then catalog DVDs, then catalog internet streaming and TV showings (not sure which order those two come in).
As the bottom end, where they feel they've gotten about as much high-quality dough from their movies as they can, they start selling them for pretty low cost. They just offer their catalogs and you license one or all of them. The studios don't expect a ton of revenue, and so they don't spend a lot of time negotiating deals for such miniscule dollars.
They did experiment with newer movies for Apple TV (remember Pirates of the Caribbean?), surely Steve Jobs as CEO talked them into it. But that didn't get them much money and they seem to have soured on it and aren't apparently doing such deals now.
Erwos:
Try not to apply logic to the studios. They make decisions and enforce them. They don't necessarily make sense.
That having been said, I have no idea where you read in a difference between renting/buying/streaming in terms of HDCP. There is none. All I said was that if you buy an HD movie from a major studio for download, no matter what the service it is on, you can only download it once. Sony enforces this restriction and looks bad for it. MS avoids the whole issue by not selling HD movies from major studios.
Agreed the rules are different for everyone except the major studios. A lot of good that does you, as the major studios have the content people generally want the most.
Bill:
Pirates 3 is available. Pirates 2 and 1 aren't. Spiderman 3 is available, 2 and 1 isn't. Batman is available: the 1966 TV move. None of the rest.
Pick a movie at random, go look and see if it is available. Repeat. Realize that almost nothing is available. Be sad.
Netflix' catalog is the same as everyone else's, the studios don't make most stuff available. And it's not impressive.
Maybe if things keep going the way the Starz deal does, things will be a bit better. Instead of months after the DVD/BluRay, you can get it the same day. Time will tell.
oops:
by "none of the rest", I didn't mean none of the rest in your list are availalbe. I meant no other Batman movies are available.
"Also, these restrictions are enforced by the movie studios. So Heroes isn't a good test, "
That makes NO sense. Who distributes Heroes? NBC Universal. What is "Universal"? A movie studio. Do you seriously think they go "oh hey, we made that for TV, so you don't need to protect it?"
Ian:
Yes, that's what they do. Again, don't try to apply logic to the studios. It rarely produces fruitful results.
question
i just transferred to school in pa. parents still live in va they recently started netflix getting 1 disc at a time. i should be able to use their account with my 360 right? i have gold of course but is there a certain netflix package you must have or can they authenticate my location or something
Depends on which 1 Disc plan they have.........
Unlimited.....
1 at-a-time (Unlimited) for $8.99
Unlimited rentals - up to 1 movie out at a time with unlimited time to watch instantly for a flat monthly fee of $8.99.
Netflix limited plan....
1 at-a-time (2 a month) for $4.99
Up to 2 rentals a month - up to 1 movie out at a time with 2 hours of time to watch instantly for a flat monthly fee of $4.99. Learn More.
Starz Plan and the live Starz TV channel are not available with this plan.
A Netflix ready device cannot be used with this plan. To stream movies & TV episodes to your TV instantly via a Netflix ready device,
Please choose a plan that includes unlimited rentals.
Man, I just picked up the LG BD300 and cant stop streaming Netflix! Any clues to HD Netflix support for other netflix aware devices?
november 19th all devices will work with hd netflix except for pc and mac for the time being. it was reported on cnet.com
I love the fact you guys are running on an Olevia, after you review top end models such as the KUROS. I guess thats still better than a Vizio or Insignia.
Assuming they follow the same protocol as other review sites, they are only given review units that they must send back, so as not to be bribed by them or some such.
And Olevia is pretty decent for a value brand. The panels are only made by a few companies anyway....offbrand TVs will in many cases have the same panels as the basic/standard lines from big names.
OLEVIA BETTER THAN VIZIO!?!?!?!
Yes, Olevia is the best "value" HDTV. I just sold my Olevia 532H and upgraded to a Samsung LN40A650. :)
well damn.........here I am thinking Vizios were better.......lol
I haven't seen Vegeta get that worked up since he first met Goku.
"IT'S OVER 9,000!!!!!"
They can't keep the TVs they review.
What's the "episode available on disc only" thing? why would some eps be streamable and others not? Is this a regular issue with netflix streaming or just in the HD version?
In my experience, it typically means that there is an extra promotional episode from a different series on the disc. The example that I can think of is some Sliders Disc have a show from Cleopatra 2323 on them, which show up the same way. Unfortunately netflix isn't good about telling you its from a different series.
See my posts above. The studios don't license all their content out to streaming. They likely delay streaming episodes until they've realized all the revenue they can from other sources (Hulu, domestic airings, foreign airings, disc sales). They'll make it available at a later date surely.
If you want to use Netflix streaming for anything, you really need to develop some patience. Some movies make it quickly, most don't.
For example, you can stream Pirates of the Caribbean 3 (2007) right now, but you can't stream Pirates 2 (2006) or Pirates 1 (2003).
So is anyone else here thinking that Blu-Ray won a war for a hill that no one cares about? I see a strong possibility for a lot of people to skip from DVD straight to HD streaming like this.
No.... because this is USA only and Bluray is available worldwide. The death of DVD and Bluray is a very long way off. There are many factors why discs will be around a long time not lease of which is DRM, Net Speeds and Compatibility.
I think online distribution will eventually be the way things work, but I'm not going to buy into it until they get their bitrates up. I know, I know, it requires more internet/network bandwidth; I'm cool with letting it buffer for a while if it means I get a better picture. ATSC bitrate for 1080i images is up to 19 Mbps... and even at that rate, some picture details are smudgy. The 27 Mbps of HD-DVD is, I'd say, a minimum for a truly HD picture. (I know, HD-DVD's VC-1 codec is more bandwidth-efficient than ATSC's MPEG-2.) Call me a snob/elitist, but I did not plunk down that kind of money for a very nice HDTV, just to watch low-bitrate content with a picture so lacking in detail that it looks finger-painted.
They battled up a long lonely hill that is about to get a nuclear bomb dropped on it. Unless they find a better reason than MGS4 to buy a PS3 N'er shall a Blu-Ray enter my house. I just think with the way On Demand and Streaming Netflix is gaining ground that Blu-Ray just seems like a more expensive way to recieve HD content.
I know 1080i streaming blah. blah. blah. Blu-Ray 1080p blah. blah. blah. I don't really care they are all so much more amazing than SD I don't care what it is 720p, 1080i, or 1080p as long as it isn't 480 anything I don't sit so close enough to my television that my eyes start bleeding because I have to be able to see the mole on someones thigh.
Again, check the Netflix streaming catalog for you say such things.
The major studios do not make recent movies available for streaming, only catalog titles.
You can get a movie on DVD/BluRay months before it comes out on HBO, it doesn't come out for streaming until months after it comes out on HBO.
You mean like VOD killed the DVD?
Oh wait, that never happened. The selection will never be as good or as permanent as owing your disc. the quality isnt comparable either.
Streaming is good for rental, not for ownership.
I didn't mean the Netflix streaming specifically, or right now, I just meant that I think HD streaming will become mainstream sooner rather than later, and greatly impact the overall successfulness of Blu-Ray.
You kinda have to stop thinking like the geek that you are and look at the average consumer. We lazy, fat, Americans are all about convenience. And streaming to your TV is far more convenient than going and picking up a physical disk. And the average Joe six pack has enough trouble telling the difference between HD and SD TV....you think most of them will really take notice of compressed 1080i vs 1080p?
Yes, the studios will definately be resistant to this, and not offer the content until after disk release. But they aren't all working together...they are in competition. Look at the record labels and DRM-free music...all it took was one major label to crack and they all came crashing down. The movie studios will probably be even easier...some of the old HD DVD diehard studios would probably love to spite their former Blu-Ray rivals.
My guess is there will be a compromise...the new releases won't be included in the Netflix subscription, it will probably be more like AppleTV where you pay to rent it for 24 hours, and eventually maybe just 'buy' it outright...which would be the ultimate form of DRM...where you don't even get to save the content you pay for. Which would suck...but average consumers looking for convenience won't care, just like the millions with iPods with billions of DRMed iTunes songs on them.
And then there is the factor that Blu-Ray STILL hasn't taken off....disc sales are much lower than DVDs, and it will likely still be a couple years before we see the numbers overtake DVD....remember, most people aren't geeks...lots of people still don't even have HDTVs yet, much less Blu-Ray players. When they finally get around to it, what will be more popular?
It's pretty fucked up that things have come to this.
Unable to watch the content you pay for because you don't have certain security devices installed in your damn-expensive viewing-device.
Pretty sick, world!
What part of "you can always run VGA" didn't you understand?
That VGA thing comes from AACS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Access_Content_System
These streaming sources don't use AACS. They have different (often overlapping) restrictions. I'm not saying you can't use VGA, as no one has tried it and posted the results that I know. But you cannot assume you can use VGA just because AACS allows VGA.
I use a VGA cable from my Xbox 360 to my Samsung monitor and it has never denied me access to any kind of content nor has it ever lowered my resolution down or anything like that. Granted, I have not tried Netflix via Xbox yet, obviously, but I'd be willing to bet it is allowed. After all, VGA [is] a supported format of the Xbox360 and it'd be stupid of Netflix to allow 1080i over component and not VGA.
It'd be stupid of Sony to allow you to redownload some content but not movies from their services. But yet it is true, because the studios enforce it on their licensees.
So, stupid or not, until someone tries showing some actual Netflix HD movies over VGA, we won't know for sure. I suspect it will work, but since we don't have any actual info to base it on (unlike the component and HDMI output of AppleTV), we don't know for sure.
Where can I find a list of HD that Netflix streams?
Do these movies download to your XBOX 360 hard drive? What happens if you are watching these movies and your internet connection drops, power goes out, router/wireless chokes up, ect? Have you paid for your "view" and would need to pay again?
You're playing netflix a monthly fee, and its streaming so anything that wasn't downloaded when your internet goes out, you won't be watching. And I'm sure you'll need to stream it again if you shut your xbox off or the power went out.
Color looks terrible using the XBox VGA cable. Everything is washed out. I bought an Elite because I couldn't stand to poor picture quality I was getting.
Are you using a 3rd party VGA cable? I had horrible results with a Mad Catz cable but I got the microsoft branded one and everything is great. It looked better than component on my TV.
Something tells me you didn't adjust the settings correctly. I'm currently using a VGA cable connected to a 22" Samsung 226BW monitor and there are none of the smudges you described. Go into the settings and make sure the correct output resolution is selected.
People still watch Heroes?
That movie creeped me out enough in standard definition...
The Orphanage was a good movie, just cant wait to watch it on my Xbox through Netflix even though i have it here somewhere in this mess of DVDs
^^Great creepy movie^^
Yeah, but the subtitles were terrible. It was hard to stay involved with the film when I couldn't figure out wtf they were saying.
Sweeeet... adding another xbox360 to my collection.
Downrank me I dont care
Now I am truly finally jealous of a 360 feature.
Yours truly,
PS3 owner
P.S. the blacks on your olivia set are horrible, should probably get you a calibration disc and check that out.
Calibration discs?? those are a waste. Get an ISF calibration, or get a better TV.
ISF would be nice if they were easily attainable everywhere and didn't often charge per input. I looked into it once and found it to be too outrageous to consider. Since I couldn't find any local calibrator I would have had to pay for travel plus the ludicrously large fees. I would have been paying enough to have simply bought another TV. At least with a calibration video you can get your display looking far better than they typically come from the store and at a miniscule fraction of the cost of paying an ISF calibrator. No, it won't be as good, but it's better than nothing and you hit dimishing returns going with a professional calibration anyway.
just a question: why my regular roku box does not support Subtitles. i see in the posted pic that it has subtitles for Orphanage movie. is it xbox360 feature? hd movie only feature?
1080i? Are you joking? That's just a micro-step above 480p (highest resolution available from a standard DVD). That's not even close to 720p, which isn't even full HD (1080p). People sure are drinking the Kool-aid when it comes to High Definition and what that term actually constitutes.
1080i is high-def fucktard...i mean frickard.
There is nearly zero difference between 1080i and 1080p on a 1080p set when you are talking about 24fps sourced material assuming your display has proper pulldown detection. Now, if you were talking about 1080p60 vs 1080i60 you would have a point, but there are currently no sources that utilize it.
wow 720p, 1080i are MUCH better than 480p. You gotta be kiddin' me, if it is only a micro step why would you bother getting an HD cable box if most HD channels are only in 720p and 1080i? Why would it even take the TV networks so long to change from 480p??
720p is much better than 480p, never said it wasn't. 480p is equivalent to 960i, which means that 1080i isn't that much of an improvement (where as 720p is equivalent to 1440i). 1080i is considered high definition, I never said that it wasn't kempcross, learn to read more efficiently and maybe someday you'll be able to use words other than "fucktard" to back your point.
Your reasoning is faulty.
480p is not the same as 960i, you are completely wrong on that. Any 960i/p format would be 960 lines of resolution on a display, double that of 480p. 960i would transmit 480 per each refresh cycle of the connection, but the end result would still be twice the resolution as 480p provided there is sufficient bandwidth to transmit all the frames of the source material.
And that's where you hit the base problem of your understanding. Film material and most TV material is shot at 24fps or 30fps. 1080i60 output (what we are talking about here) has enough bandwidth for a 1080p24 source material (and 1080p30 source material). The frames may be sent in sequences of 540 lines interleaved, but since the source material is only 24fps, you don't lose any information and a 1080p display can reconstruct the frame sequence properly giving you a result that's pretty much identical from the source.
The math is a little goofy to understand for 24fps material since 3:2 pulldown is involved, but 30fps material makes it dead simple. The source only has 30fps. Those 30fps are being sent to a progressive display at a rate of 60fps, only half resolution. The progressive display simply buffers the first set of 540lines and then reassembles the full 1080p picture after it gets the second set of lines. No mess, no degradation in picture quality, full 1080p image.
Things in my Netflix instant queue right now:
Heroes
CSI
30 Rock
Of course, I don't have cable/satellite service at all, so I'm sure I get more bang for my buck than most. But it's pretty awesome having a backlog of a CRAZY amount of TV (a lot of it pretty decent) for only $9 a month ($10 for me since I chose the Blu-ray option too). Can't wait to start streaming it to my TV instead of viewing it on my PC. $60 for a year of Xbox Gold means I'm paying only ~$14 a month for my TV viewing. Assuming that's all I was doing (which I'm not) since it's actually just a bonus when I don't have a Blu-ray movie sitting around to watch.
For movies? I happen to like that I can grab an old classic or someting off the wall on a whim. For movies I've got:
Steamboy
A Clockwork Orange
The Omega Man
Rushmore
None of those I'd buy, but now I don't have to. :)
No, you don't have to buy them, unless you want to actually be able to watch them when you want.
Pirates of the Caribbean 2 was available for streaming/renting online at one time. It is not now available. This is one of the problems with streaming, assuming just because something is available today means you can watch it any time you want is often incorrect.
Oh definitely, I don't think that Netflix is a replacement for owning copies of movies you love and want access to 24/7, ad infinitum (see: Ironman, The Big Lebowski, Star Wars: A New Hope for examples for me). But at less than the cost of one DVD per month, I get a huge amount of content as a compliment to my existing library. Obviously someone else's mileage on how useful that is might vary.
Nope used genuine Microsoft VGA cable for xbox360 on Sony XBR2. I noticed right away when I turned it on using the VGA cable. The Orange background looked really washed out and the games and HD-DVD (what a waste that add on was) looked even worse. I could not manipulate the TV screen settings when using that cable, the Sony TV was very limited when it came to using the VGA interface, there was no way to tell if you were getting actual 1080p, on the other inputs it tells you what the current resolution is but not on VGA. So I bought an Elite with Falcon motherboard since the other one kept breaking anyway and was thrilled with the HDMI pic quality. In my case the component looked better than the VGA on my original XBox360.
re: iee
No, you adjust the settings on the Xbox360, under the [what is now] System Tab. I suspect your Xbox was not set up correctly to output via RGb (VGA).
I only consider 720p and 1080p HD. I hate 1080i.
We loves 1080i, but we hates hobbitses.
I'm interested to see how these types of services are going to affect Blu-ray. there's no question that it's biggest competitor in the future is going to be digital downloads and while this streaming hd isn't anywhere near blu-ray's level in terms of A/V quality, it's a great start. I've actually been working with Warner Home Video on some blu-ray projects and they're following the progression of downloadable HD content closely.
Down with DRM!
Bilbo, 1080i is, by NTSC and ATSC standards, High Definition.
Just watch some Discovery HD and tell me that's not HD. DiscHD is displayed in 1080i.
i have found that the 360 can run 1080p through component wires. now before you guys bash me let me explain.... i have a first run 360 and last summer i picked up a new samsung 61" dlp. i dont remember the model number but it was the best one at the time. so naturally i wanted a 1080p signal for my new toy.
i went out and bought the vga cable immediately and hooked it up. worked like a charm. well after a couple months i wanted to hook my pc up to the tv so i went back to the component wires for the 360.
well when i was in back of the tv making the connections i realized i never switched the 360 back to 1080i/720p. well i took a peek anyways and it was still coming up ! I checked the 360 and tv and they were both at 1080p.I have heard one tv that could run 1080p through component but it was a HP brand. and a damn expensive one at that. in my experience the vga and components were identical in every way. damn shame too, the cable was 80 beans !
I have just tried to watch content that is shown to be in HD, but my 360 doesn't get that quality. I have one of the original 360 boxes (I bought it around the time it first came out), and so I have it connected to my TV (a 37" Sony plasma from about 3 years ago) via component. I thought that I would be able to get it in HD. Is this actually stopping it from getting the HD quality?