The Apple / Microsoft ad war keeps escalating -- while Apple continues to insist that John Hodgman is the human representation of all PCs, Microsoft is taking its populist approach to the streets. Very specific streets, actually -- it's placing "I'm a PC" recording booths outside of Apple stores, like the one pictured here in Birmingham, England. The booth is staffed with three 'Softies who'll try to sell you on the latest in Windows tech while making nyah-nyah faces at Apple store patrons, and guests are invited to make a short video explaining why they, too, are PCs. Not to be outdone, Apple has pledged to send Justin Long to your house to charmingly condescend to you about his various abilities while still pretending to be your best friend.
posted Oct 31st 2008 1:29PM
Location Location Location...DOH!
Hmm, which will gather more attention... trendy/hipster Apple store, or meaningless corporate sign.
Do these sorts of ads actually sway anyone?
Are you suggesting that Apple isn't "corporate"?
oGMo,
I agree, this just seems like a lot of money trying to say, "hey look at us". I just want my computer to work, thank you very much and I'd rather not pay a fortune for them to just dump it back into advertising. I'll choose not to go with either and just vote independent.
Doesn't the fact that Macs can run Windows natively make this display kind of silly?
I mean, if you go into an Apple Store and ask to see Boot Camp, they will reboot a designated Mac and show you how it works. Now Windows won't actually work on the Mac, since they've allowed the activation period to lapse, at least at the store I went into, but they will show you without any trouble.
So once again, another example of Microsoft wasting money when they should be making Windows better.
Last time I checked, if a Windows can load on a PC, then OS X can certainly be loaded on a PC and for a lot cheaper than Apple hardware, albeit with some extra effort.
As for your point about Microsoft wasting money on advertising, the same could easily be said about Apple. The fact that they make over a billion dollars of profit a month makes me think that they've pretty much maxed out their advertising and r&d budgets already and that any flaws in Windows isn't because of lack of funds, but rather because of poor implementations of generally good ideas, and the difficulty of creating and operating system that works on such a myriad of hardware. It's certainly not an enviable task, or maybe it is....
>So once again, another example of Microsoft wasting money when they should be making Windows better.
Microsoft IS making Windows better. Haven't you been paying attention to the 7 news? Improved UI schemes, better performance, etc.
You can only throw so much money at software development before you hit the point where it actually makes things worse due to cluttering up your development team. The ad campaign in no way prevents them from doing better on the software front.
Well, Eddie W, I guess that explains the penguin.
"skant @ Oct 31st 2008 2:29PM
Last time I checked, if a Windows can load on a PC, then OS X can certainly be loaded on a PC"
But technically OSX can't be loaded on a PC. It's against Apple's EULA.
"Doesn't the fact that Macs can run Windows natively make this display kind of silly?...So once again, another example of Microsoft wasting money when they should be making Windows better."
How do you figure ? I assert this is actually one of the few logical places for MS to place such advertising. Virtually any other place you migh buy a computer it will come with Windows PRE-INSTALLED...they will have already sold it to you, so why would they advertise there ? Even if you just buy parts and build a machine, the overwhelming likelihood is that you will run Windows on it. Not so at the Apple store. When apple switched to x86 they opened up a whole new market for Microsoft to tap (sort of...if people needed windows only apps in the PPC days they would just buy a second machine, though MS of course wouldn't care about the extra hardware).
Aside from OSX and hubris, all Macs are these days are white boxed PCs...ripe targets for Ballmers plans for (PC)world dommination...
@happy_penguin:
It's not so much the EULA that's the issue. Apple have emailed people in the past saying that they won't sue you for it but they won't support it. The problem comes because the vast majority are pirate versions, and the OS has to have hacks applied to it for it to work on a normal system.
If you're going to say you can run windows on a mac, you can also say that the modern macs with their intel chipsets are actually PC's aren't they?
I am a mac user and as much as I love my new MacBook, I hate how Apple tries so hard to be 'hip and cool' with those PC vs Mac ads. Honestly, if there was no 'crappy' windows, OSX wouldn't have proper competitor, and it wouldn't be where it is right now.
I don't like Windows, particularly Vista, but I do completely agree with MS's new campaign. Every normal person uses Windows, including myself, regardless of whether they own a mac or not. Using a mac doesn't make me, or anyone else, special.
@happy_penguin
technically it can, as in its technically feasible.
legally that's a different matter...
I'm in a bad mood today! lol!
You see, this is my problem with Microsoft. Why do they have to advertise? They are a generic brand, like a can of cashews sold at Albertsons or Safeway. You can't avoid Windows. 90 percent of the computers out there have Windows. You go to work, more than likely you will have to use Windows and Office. So my problem with their advertising is that it just makes Microsoft looked like they're scared of Apple.
Microsoft sells to computer companies, not to regular people. If computer companies like HP and Dell were migrating to another platform, then perhaps they would have something to worry about, but they AREN'T. Of course, the only real time that HP and Dell have flirted with Linux, is when Vista didn't meet high expectations. So it would seem that Microsoft would do better just making sure Windows 7 doesn't suck, then wasting their time competing with Apple's commercials.
They're giving Apple more exposure and making them relevant with their lame ad campaign.
"Josh @ Oct 31st 2008 2:42PM
@happy_penguin:
It's not so much the EULA that's the issue. Apple have emailed people in the past saying that they won't sue you for it but they won't support it. The problem comes because the vast majority are pirate versions, and the OS has to have hacks applied to it for it to work on a normal system."
So what's the point? Apple won't support OS X on anything but their own hardware and you aren't going to install OS X on just any PC without some serious work. So technically you can't install OSX on a PC.
"andrew @ Oct 31st 2008 2:45PM
@happy_penguin
technically it can, as in its technically feasible.
legally that's a different matter...
I'm in a bad mood today! lol!"
Over analytical.
@ Danny - Very well said. Although I like Apple's products, I seem to use Windows on a more daily basis than anything else.
Apple does try too hard to be hip and cool, but with the cost of their laptops, which are nice, are way too costly when we can get something like this on the cheap:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/30/emachines-intro-the-emd620-5777-bargain-laptop-curved-keyboard/
My best friend has a Mac and let me tell you, there are things he does on his Mac that fill me with envy. When I see him using Expose and Spaces, I am annoyed when I have to go back and use XP and shuffle through a hundred Windows in my task bar. Thank God for tabs in Firefox. I also am annoyed when my AV software pops up when I'm in the middle of a multi-player game and I have to reboot and get my sound back.
My Mac friend also DOESN'T call me ten times a day, asking me why his computer is running slow, because he downloaded some crappy software during a porn session. You know, it's nice that so many geeks love how customizable Windows is, but let me tell you, it's NO fun when you are in a family of casual Windows users. I would much rather they have Macs, so they stop annoying me.
But taken altogether, I think the fact that people go to great lengths to say that Macs AREN'T special, is what gives their ad campaign such relevance. Microsoft is actually HELPING Apple by pointing out that so many people use Windows. They are turning Windows into a generic brand.
It's like that scene in The Incredibles (ironically from Pixar, a company founded by Steve Jobs) where Helen Par tells her son that "everybody's special," to which Dash responds, "Which is another way of saying NO one is."
So the "I'm a PC" ad campaign does the same thing, that is, by saying EVERYONE is special for using Windows, they're really reinforcing the idea that no one is, and Justin Long is standing in the background laughing at us. Microsoft has fallen into Apple's trap.
@ Paul Chapel:
"I also am annoyed when my AV software pops up when I'm in the middle of a multi-player game and I have to reboot and get my sound back."
Why not just tell your AV software to not do that? 0_o
"My Mac friend also DOESN'T call me ten times a day, asking me why his computer is running slow, because he downloaded some crappy software during a porn session."
You just haven't trained your Windows-using friends and family how to not break their computers. Yeah, 10 years ago, as the Internet was seriously hitting the mainstream, I was a busy little bee, running around fixing everyone's shit. Now? I have them all trained to not be morons. I only get calls when something phsyically breaks (Apple products are not immune from this), or they need help with something *I* did to make their setup better (i.e. adding a new system to their wireless that I secured for them).
"So the "I'm a PC" ad campaign does the same thing, that is, by saying EVERYONE is special for using Windows, they're really reinforcing the idea that no one is, and Justin Long is standing in the background laughing at us. Microsoft has fallen into Apple's trap."
I think you're missing the point of MS's ads. It's a bunch of normal people being proud to be Windows users, so you don't need to feel like a chump because you either haven't taken a sip of Apple's Kool-Aid, or you can't afford to. It also shows successful people and not-so-successful people alike being Windows users, highlighting that average Joes can use Windows, but so can successul folks; you don't need Apple products to be successful.
It's not about being special for using Windows; it's about not feeling bad about yourself for not using Apple products.
@Paul
Sure, MS should just sit back and let Apple continue to basically lie about them.
That makes marketing sense.
Or not.
@Paul
ad agencies make ads, software companies make software (and music players evidently), it doesn't get much more complicated than that
@EricC
So, in other words, the purpose of Microsoft's ads is to boost the self esteem of PC users? If your self esteem is connected to what kind of computer you use, then you REALLY have issues.
I might envy what's on my friend's Mac, but it has nothing to do with my self worth.
And besides, self esteem issues used to be just a problem for Mac users. I remember back in the day when John Dvorak could guarantee clicks by bashing Macs. Nowadays, it seems that Mac users just ignore people like John Dvorak. Now it's PC users who easily get offended and sites like Gizmodo and Engadget are laughing all the way to the bank. Look at any of these articles on Engadget about Apple. If there is one slight dig against Microsoft, you will see a wave of PC fanboys, who claim they aren't fanboys, but end up nonetheless being in EVERY topic about Apple or Microsoft, bashing Apple in some way and blaming Engadget for bias.
And if there isn't a mention of Apple, they will make a snide comparison. So you got PC users acting like Mac users USED to act. That really worries me.
It's not just the EULA.
Intel Macs use a TPM chip to validate the computer. Apple's private key is held in there in private store. You can get around it by removing certain kexts - but everytime Apple does an update, it gets put back in - so no automatic updating. Apple's already working on code injection, which will allow them to insert the key test all over the place, which will make it vastly harder to block their OS DRM.
And no, just putting a TPM on a PC won't do it - you need Apple's private key, which you can't get from an existing TPM.
That leaves drivers. Fortunately, a lot of pretty talented people have come up with drivers for a lot of PC setups - but it's hardly the same as having real support from the actual manufacturers (Atheros WiFi anyone? :) Installing Kalyway, iDeneb or iATKOS on any given PC is both a crapshoot and requires a certain amount of fiddling around to get everything right. And some systems just will not run it no matter what you do.
I'm not against people running MacOS X on their PCs... but to imply that it's as easy as installing Windows or Linux is being highly disingenuous. And if you're prepared to put the effort in, it actually works surprisingly well - although *always* with a few gotcha (like no WiFi, exploding when try to sleep the laptop, etc...)
On the other hand, just for the record, there's no technical reason you can't run MacOS on non-Apple hardware. It's an intentional action on Apple's part (the OS DRM) and a bigger lack of interest (on the peripheral maker's part) that prevent it - not some magical difference that makes Macs superiour to PCs in this area.
@ Paul Chapel:
Yes, they are trying to boost the self-esteem of Windows users, but not ALL Windows users. Just the ones that would be susceptible to Apple's ads.
I agree that if your self-esteem is based of off ANY material goods you own or use, you have issues, but that's the demographic Apple targets, and it's the demographic MS is trying to win back or keep. Apple, MS and every other company care not about your personal mommy/daddy issues; they only care about how much money you're spending on their products.
Low Ranked for saying PC users have self esteem issues, thereby proving my point. LOL.
@Paul
Actually, you're low ranked because you're a bit of a cock.
Hope that clears thing sup.
Insulted for saying PC users have self esteem issues, thereby proving my point. Again. LOL.
Paul, they advertise because if people think Windows is crappy, they won't buy a computer with it.
Jeff,
"Intel Macs use a TPM chip to validate the computer. Apple's private key is held in there in private store. You can get around it by removing certain kexts - but everytime Apple does an update, it gets put back in - so no automatic updating."
Apple doesn't use the TPM chip and since 2006, hasn't been shipping Macs with TPM chips.
See:
http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter7/tpmdrmmyth/
Actually Paul, I low ranked you because you keep ending posts in LOL.
Paul, you seem to care a lot about your rank, having self esteem issues?
@Danny
...I love you...you are the first Mac user to not be a pretentious jerk who pretends to be better based solely on the fact of his operating system...not saying Windows is better, because I'm still on XP, but you are the coolest non-snob ever...
by the way, I'm a PC, and I'm not a snob.
Like trying to sell an Oldsmobile outside a Bentley dealership.
More like trying to sell a Toyota at a Bentley dealership. There is no Oldsmobile anymore.
Why is there always the incessant need to "own" the last reply and further your own ideas? I have seen a lot of good information and opinions throughout this thread, but I could do so only by sifting through the alpha-male garbage. I like both OSs, for different things.
LOL
Wow....I mean Microsoft seriously just looks so desperate while very defensive and nervous about Apple. Its like they are always trying so hard to keep up with them and they so badly wish they were Apple. They're like the nerds at school that so desperately wish they were popular, so they always try to tag along and force themselves in with popular kids.
I'm not defending Apple, thats just how Microsoft has always acted. Hell even Bill Gates before Microsoft became big was like a psychopath towards Steve Jobs, really being resentful of Jobs and wanting what Jobs and Apple had so desperately. Everyone should watch the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley, its a really good movie about what Steve Jobs and Bill Gates did creating the tech revolution. Its not a documentary its a hollywood film portrayed by actors, but Woz has said himself that everything in the movie is accurate and happened that way, adding bits of drama to make the movie interesting, but still accurate.
I reckon there's a chance Jobs wants Microsoft's user base.
I'm a PC and... I have performed and illegal operation and must be shut down.
wow that is so hilarious
Hmm....I wonder if the someone (ie Mac Genius) will do some graffiti on the booth anytime??
In your Face, biatch!
FYI: John Hodgman is a Mac user in real life. Just saying.
Everyone loves a good fight :)
Advertising is divided into two kinds, IMO.
One says "Here I am, this is what I do and how I want you to feel about me"
The other says "Look at him, he's terrible and here are the reasons, this is what we want you to feel about him"
I prefer the former when making decisions about products (and politicians). I don't care for smears, FUD, attack ads and straw man arguments.
I hope that fear based tactics will eventually be so frowned upon that it is no longer in a corporations interest to slime their competitors. In the meantime, the FUD will be reframed as "education".
Wow, MS has brass balls to set up shop like that in Apple's backyard. I'm curious to see how this plays out and it will happen stateside...
iStans are going to riot, that booth will be on its top next to a burning doll of Bill Gates within a week.
Backyard?
By the looks of the picture they've set up shop right on their front lawn!
Looks like the front yard to me... Which would appear as even more of an insult.
Apple has no say in the matter. They don't own the mall's corridors. The mall does.
Microsoft should be thrilled that John Hodgman is the PC... he's hilarious. You should definitely check out his books.
yea .. Hodgman is cool.
FYI: John Hodgman is a Mac user in real life. Just saying.
I assumed he was a Mac user, since in his second book (More Information Than You Require), he claims that he can get free computers, and that he will not get one for you. He calls it one of the perks of being a minor television personality. Again, check them out.
Actually, John Hodgman said in an interview that he forced his dad to buy him an Apple II when he was a kid. He's been an Apple user since the eighties.
I know that stuff about him getting free Mac stuff makes you feel better about it, but the truth is the truth.
@Paul Chapel
You are a douchebag! Would you shut the @#$! up for a minute. You been commenting and all you been doing is cry and cry because you don't have a Mac. If you want one so bad then get one and stop crying about how sorry your pc life is, most of us don't love our PC's. I mean apple is a gorgeous babe but it ain't all that.
They probably shouldn't have "life without walls" written on the outside of an enclosed, windowless booth.
hahahhaha i thought the same thing! so much for no walls...
I laughed so hard that I just peed a little...
Then I looked around at my window-less cubicle and cried a little.
Now I'm a urine and tear soaked mess, real nice.
where is the big penguin.
Where it should be... coding.
He's down in his basement for the month because his "God damn wireless card" (as he likes to call it) has no Linux drivers and so he has to write them from scratch. He said to tell everyone it's not big deal though, it's totally worth the days of coding because when he gets done, he'll know he's nobodies bitch.
Good penguin.
Also, best Halloween costume ever. Too bad people think I'm just a penguin... not THE penguin.
......and I'm a retard
I agree!
(...sorry, that was too easy to pass off)
we don't blame you, you are special
Mac is a PC
A MAC is not a PC. Buy a mac and you join the flock of the Shepperd Steve Jobs. You are no longer a person. You are a sheep. You are one with the herd.
The only real difference between Mac and PC is the EFI. And with Vista SP1 supporting EFI, mobo manufacturers are starting to ship EFI capable motherboards to system builders.
Boarderwoot, what brands of clothing are you wearing right now?
Exactly right! The Mac is a PC (personal computer). It's the operating system and the quality of Apple's PC hardware that makes it different from Windows PCs.
This Microsoft booth outside an Apple store is just pitiful, and shows just how desperate Microsoft has become!
What's really funny is that Microsoft doesn't even make PCs, and yet it's advertising personal computers… which includes all Windows, Mac, & Linux personal computers.
Has anyone questioned why Microsoft's booth (and advertising) doesn't promote Vista, a product that it actually DOES make?
No? I thought not ;-)
I'm a PC. Er, I mean I use a PC. Er, I mean I use a Mac. Isn't that a PC. I'm confused. What were we talking about here?
"Boarderwoot @ Oct 31st 2008 1:52PM
A MAC is not a PC. Buy a mac and you join the flock of the Shepperd Steve Jobs. You are no longer a person. You are a sheep. You are one with the herd."
As opposed to using Windows like 90+ percent of the world does?
@happypenguin - how can you make such a generalization that anyone who buys a mac is no longer a person but a sheep?! its disgusting how people get so worked up about mac vs. pc. its become worse than when someone insults someone elses favourite sports team. why dont you just grow up?!
I fully agree that the MAC is a PC from a hardware perspective, gone are the days where there using 68000 , or RISC Power PC CPU's.
I guess the "I'm a PC" thing is easer than , " I'm Windows" and lets be honest if you know the difference you properly don't care a
great deal.
@Boarder
Yeah, I agree! If I happen to prefer one OS to another then I am not a person! Also, I'm pretty sure more people STILL use Windows. Come on guys.
"Jsc @ Oct 31st 2008 6:18PM
@happypenguin - how can you make such a generalization that anyone who buys a mac is no longer a person but a sheep?! its disgusting how people get so worked up about mac vs. pc. its become worse than when someone insults someone elses favourite sports team. why dont you just grow up?!"
If you look at how I quoted, just as I have quoted you here you will realize that it was not me that said that. I was quoting it and answering it.
"A MAC is not a PC. Buy a mac and you join the flock of the Shepperd Steve Jobs. You are no longer a person. You are a sheep. You are one with the herd."
hmmm.. Generally, the pejorative "sheep" and "herd mentality" are terms used to describe the "masses" of individuals don't use critical thinking to objectively evaluate a given situation and the choices at hand and instead just blindly accept the status quo no matter if it actually represents the best solution available. Given the fact that the vast majority of PC users generally purchase new windows PCs without consideration that a Mac model may be the superior option, I'd say you have the situation backwards.
Now if you are referring to the behavior whereby overzealous apple fans do not question Apple's decisions and support every decision they make regardless of it's merits, that is another issue.. Although I don't think the proper characterization is "herd" behavior...
Actually Mac is Unix/BSD running on Intel hardware (PC) to be exact. Yep I am a Linux user in control of my PC, Steve or Bill!
I'm a PC, and I can't afford a Mac.
Certainly these two aren't correlated.
I'm a PC BECAUSE I can't afford a Mac?
FAIL
Please press your username now. Twice.
I haven't seen ctrl alt del x2 shut down a machine since windows 95. I'm pretty sure that doesn't work anymore.
Ctrl+Alt+Delx2 rebooted the machine as late as Windows 98 from what I remember, and I'm almost positive it did for ME and 2000
@ freehunter: It's the thought that counts ;)
freehunter, are you aware that jokes don't need to be technically accurate? I'm surprised you aren't complaining that he can't actually press his username.
I would like to know if pc users (microsoft) are more obese compared to mac users ? Just curious?
Considering PC users can fit in a compact booth, while Mac users need a giant bulbous store, then I think Mac people are fatter.
::ducks::
PC users spend more time fixing, may "modding," their computers than Mac users. This lets Mac users to go outside and not be as sedentary. However, I'm not one to stereotype.
I'm a PC and I have an eating disorder.
That was hella random (not that there's anything wrong with that). Anyway, I wont try and guess at that answer for Britain, but for the US (and Canada too actually) it doesn't matter the operating system, Windows, Linux, Mac, we're all pretty much fat. However I should say that we also have the geek-on-5,000 calorie a day-diet-who-still-looks-like-an-albino-dying- of-malnutrition types too
"I became...bulimic"
*GASP* "You can read minds?!?!"
/zoolander'd
Very true, because Mac users are pro-ana so they can fit into their trendy, skinny girl jeans
I'd be surprised if Apple's lease agreements don't contain clauses to keep displays like this a certain distance from their store.
Malls are private property. Apple just leases retail space. I'd seriously doubt any landlord would bend over backwards like that.
They do. That's why the booth is OUTSIDE the store.
In related news, I HATE malls with kiosks. Well, malls are a clusterfuck anyway because they take the world's worst drivers, and then have them walk aimlessly with no regard for others. But kiosks make them worse. Having a Microsoft kiosk is a breath of fresh air; at least I won't have someone trying to get me to buy nail polish for my girlfriend, or sell me a faceplate for a Nokia 8210 or something.
Would you like to try our new Micro-Exfoliating Ultimate Edition?
Comes complete with toning UAC lotion and Dual Layer Application Disc.
I'm reminded of when Miller Light decided they'd try and beat Budweiser at their own game - by running the "President of Beer" ads in 2004 (picking on the "King of Beers".)
Well, if you remember, the "President of Beer" ads were modestly funny, and ran for about a month. Then, Bud came out with their response.
They laid the smack down. "Since Miller is owned by a South African co-op, they're not eligible to run for President in the US" Bud's beloved donkey said.
The "President of Beer" ads immediately disappeared. Miller tucked their tails and ran, and Bud won the day.
I feel like that's what happened here - Microsoft slapped back against Apple's Mac/PC ads (way too late), and now Apple is going to unleage the rage and fury of a better oiled, hipper, media machine. Watch out Microsoft!
/PC user.
I feel like that's what happened here - Microsoft slapped back against Apple's Mac/PC ads (way too late), and now Apple is going to unleage the rage and fury of a better oiled, hipper, media machine.
Apple is going to unleage the rage and fury of a better oiled, hipper, media machine.
better oiled, hipper, media machine
hipper
Macintosh is hip.