Oh Apple. Is it that you can't see the things you're doing, or that you simply don't care how they look? If you'll recall, few months ago Jobs and co. kicked up quite a dust storm over a seemingly innocuous application called Podcaster, which allowed you to receive over-the-air updates of new podcasts when they were released. The company
rejected the app based on the grounds that it "duplicates the functionality of the Podcast section of iTunes," a claim that seemed unreasonable at the time, and should now feel downright criminal. According to a German blog which has posted pictures of the latest beta build of firmware 2.2, Apple has included functionality which
allows you to download podcasts over-the-air. The new addition works with both video and audio, and over 3G / EDGE and WiFi, though the size of podcasts is limited to 10MB when using the cell network. Now we don't pretend to assume that Apple
just got this idea after seeing Podcaster in action -- and it's clear that Apple is killing projects which are similar to its own -- but it's still hard to stomach the concept of the company outright refusing an application with nearly the exact same functionality, only to turn around and add it to their installed software. This kind of
veiled violence against developers only serves to chip away at the support Apple has engendered in its community, and drive those hands and eyes to other platforms. C'mon Steve -- we know you can do better than this.
[Via
Mac Rumors]
posted Nov 6th 2008 12:34PM
Man, Apple is getting to be just as bad as Microsoft.
Nah, way worse. Can you imagine the backlash if Microsoft simply made it impossible to install Firefox?
Microsoft has never been as bad as Apple. They recognize the need for developers to suport their platforms and go out of their way to work with them.
If they see something they like they usually try to buy it and rebrand it. At least the creator gets some reward in that case. And if it doesn' t work out the creator might find themselves in competition with MS but the OS isn't going to stop allowing the competing application to be installed and MS isn't going to stop supporing the developer.
And that is even worse case.
If you know anything about software development cycles they most likely had this in the works long before Podcaster had its first line of code written.
Exactly what Matt said.
Apple just keeps confirming that switching to the G1 was the right move...
Thanks Apple, for making the "switch" even easier!
@ Matt: So now devs have to add predicting what Apple may or may not develop in the future, to their bag of tricks to ensure that a perfectly cromulent app doesn't get banned?
Sounds great. ;)
Why are we even talking about the Iphone? They screw developers, they screw the consumer, they should be screwing themselves. When will you fanboys learn>?
@Alan Strangis Unfortunately it seems that way. They definitely need to publish acceptance guidelines (or have a front-line gatekeeper) so developers don't spend resources on a project only to see it banished like Podcaster. I think Podcaster is a bad example because it blatantly tries to alter (improve) existing functionality.
It would have been much worse for all parties involved if Apple had hidden their intentions to improve iPod podcasts. Both developers and consumers don't want to waste time and money on superfluous software.
Apple said they blocked Podcaster because it duplicated functionality in iPod, and it turns out they were right. As of 2.2 Podcaster has no purpose, and it would be wrong for people to waste money on it.
Apple would have a much more serious problem on their hands, both with developers and consumers, if the Podcaster app had actually been released, so it should surprise no one that they blocked it when they did.
But the Engadget peanut gallery is outraged for some reason.
Wow, the Microsoft apologetics by Engadget commenters is getting nauseating these days.
Tell me, brainiacs, does Microsoft allow you to install a bunch of stuff on your Xbox 360 at your whim and pleasure, with no control by Redmond? How about on your Zune? Yeah, please get back to me on that. Or don't.
Apple worse than Microsoft, give me a friggen break.
You people are clowns. With keyboards.
Now, do your duty and vote me down. Darren, the reason the Engadget peanut gallery is enraged is because they are rabid Apple-hating tools without an original thought in their MS-conditioned heads.
Astroturf Different.
@Ordeith If i'm not mistaken, coverflow was a feature that apple bought from a 3rd party developer.
@Quix
Thanks for the ridiculous examples. Try this;
"Tell me, brainiacs, does Microsoft allow you to install a bunch of stuff on your Windows Mobile phone at your whim and pleasure, with no control by Redmond?"
Oh right it does...
-Clown with a keyboard
@ Quix
Yeh, because the iphone realy compares to the xbox 360. How about actually comparing it to a phone like Windows Mobile, then YES microsoft lets you install w/e the hell you want. And just because, yeh I can install anything I want on the zune by a very much microsoft supported program called xna http://creators.xna.com/en-us/zune_development that is a little outdated but it still says the point.
OK braintards, let me break it down for you since you obviously have basic logic deficiencies. The reason I used the Xbox and Zune vs. iPhone example is because ALL THREE ARE HARDWARE + SOFTWARE FROM THE SAME VENDOR!!! They all feature an integrated hardware/software model. Which, of course, Microsoft used to moan about. Until PlaysForSure got kicked to the curb and they jumped on the iPod Train. But no, you don't cry about Microsoft controlling the Xbox and the Zune - you only cry about Apple controlling the iPhone. And you surely won't be crying about the Holy ZunePhone when it makes its debut. Which it surely will. iPhone Train, you know.
The hypocrisy would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Oh, and I can install anything I want on my Mac - but that would hurt your "Apple keeps complete control" argument. Maybe throw in the fact that you can swap the video card in your PC, you know, just like you can in your Windows Mobile phone! Oh wait...
You people are a scourge on intelligent thinking.
Vote me down. Again. Because hitting that red minus button is about all your puny brains can muster.
Quix: You are a retard . Seriously
Wow! Quix is so fucken stupid!
I bet he still pees in his bed! HA!
Quix has this really weird tendency to compare platforms from completely different verticals, then somehow accuse the rest of us for being idiots because we hypothetically said that it was okay for the nonexistant Zunephone to have software lockdown.
Then there's something about installing a new video card into your cell phone.. which was probably an attempt at an intelligent thought.. but hell if I can figure out what that thought was supposed to be. Don't hurt yourself, Quix, we know you're trying really hard.
Maybe his godlike logic is just too much for my puny brain to comprehend. I guess I'll just hit that red minus button instead, that seems to be all I can muster.
I'm still in 1.1.4 waiting for ziPhone to give a jailbreak with 2.1 OS
LOL ^^^
What a noob. zibri isnt doing anything. Just use quickpwn/winpwn/pwnage like everyone else.
If possible you are an even bigger idiot than Quix a few posts above you.
Zibri can die in a fire.
um yeah, excuse me Flashpoint, but 2.1 has been unlocked and jailbroken for quite some time now by the iPhone Dev Team with the Pwnage tool. I've used it perfectly on 2 different first gen iPhones, more that once on each and have had zero trouble. They've even software jailbroken (not unlocked) the 3G iPhone, and you can easily use a sim unlock tool to easy get around that. Not to mention that ZiPhone was one of the buggiest unlocks for 1.4. So what exactly are you waiting for?
Those are nice new features but they should work on fixing core problems with stuff already present.
- The camera takes 30 years to load and image quality worse since like 1.0.2
- Fix text messaging problem: I've looked like a fool so many times because I thought I sent the message to the wrong person but if you hit back right after you send a text message, it'll display in the wrong person's message list
- Get GPS to not be jumpy!
- Fix mixed calls. I've ended up calling people I've never heard of by calling regular people on my contact list
- Wireless sync would be better than wireless podcast!
- Give an option to turn off the accelerometer
... and more basic stuff but MEHHHHHHHHH
Oh and I'd be happy to have picture messaging over copy & paste. Even the free phones can do that!
Cool, the only reason I plug my phone into my computer is to download daily podcasts. Now I'll have to do it only once a week, that is, once this comes out in a few months.
wow what will they think of next
You mean, what will they take that someone else thinks of next.
For those of you who dont know, Live TV is available for the iPhone 3g via the OrbLive app in the appstore. FREAKING AWESOME.
(TV tuner required for home computer, or IR Blaster to DVR with audio/video feed back to video card.)
_they all want c-o-n-t-r-o-l over your device_
What about weatherbug? doesnt that duplicate the functionality of the weather app?
I always wondered that too,hmmm...
I don't think the issue is duplicating functionality, but more like throttling bandwidth. Podcasts limited to 10M? The ones I download, and I can think of about five/six, are 45 minutes long at minimum. Those won't get downloaded, because they're too big. By forcing a limit on the size of a file you can download, it prevents people from pounding the ATT network with traffic constantly. It seems like Apple's control over applications is them yielding to pressure of the AT&T data network as opposed to preventing development. This would explain why Opera hasn't been released. They might work Flash support into Opera, and then you have a widespread bandwidth issue again.
only if on the 3G / EDGE. don't you have access to wifi? That will help.
Sure, it'll break it out on wifi. But if you have access to wifi, you probably have access to a computer. Granted, that's a big presupposition, but I'm willing to guess you'd rather download a podcast with itunes or some other program rather than fumbling on the iphone to do it, given a side-by-side option.
Consumers already know about the built in weather app, therefore it's up to them whether they want to spend money on an app that duplicates the functionality.
Consumers don't know about soon-to-be-released iPod improvements, so it makes complete sense that Apple would try to prevent their customers from wasting money on a feature that's about to be released for free.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple allowed the Podcaster app after OS 2.2 is released, but at that point I don't think the developer bother to continue to develop it, and I doubt any consumers would be interested in buying it.
For the podcasts over 10mb:
1. Jailbreak
2. Download/install voipover3g. Can be located in Cydia.
2. SSH your phone. This requires that you turn SSH on in your Boss Preferences. You will also need to connect your phone to the computer and access it with Cyberduck (Mac) or WinSCP (Windows)...or any other FTP client.
3. Edit the file "VoIPover3G.plist" in "/Library/MobileSubstrate/DynamicLibraries/" then save this:
Code:
Filter = {Bundles = ("com.Fringland.Fring", "com.apple.AppStore", "com.audiofile.Interstate", "INSERT COMLINK FOR PODCASTS HERE", "com.apple.MobileStore");};
you can always take out the "com.Fringland.Fring" and "com.audiofile.Interstate" if you dont use fring or truphone
I do not know what the ex("com.apple.podcast") is, so you will need that to make this work.
This can be done for ANY application that is WIFI only :)
BTW, i take NO CREDIT for my previous post. Found it on the orb forums, to allow streaming live television over 3g instead of just WIFI.
ZZZZZZzzzzz....
And people complained about Microsoft's antitrust activities...
They still do ;)
Why don't they add more useful features like Copy/Paste, video recording, message forwarding, the ability to delete a single SMS instead of the whole conversation, etc.
Amen brother. Apple sucks. They're predatory, give no information worth knowing half the time, and they're elitists in their actions, but hey did make a great phone and we bought it. The problem now is that while we like the product, it's getting harder to stomach the company that made it, because at least Microsoft Acknowledges that the customers opinions should be recognized, but Apple comes across like they just don't give a Damn! Oh, you wanted this feature or that feature, well screw you, you'll get what we give you and we don't care how many times you complain, we run this ship and all we need from you is your hard earned money.
This idea is good but the implementation is evil. :)
This is just a sign of the behavior to come from Apple as it gains market share in the PC business and makes inroads into other markets such as smart phones. I don't mind closed-source applications so much, but when an entire underlying platform, be it Windows, OSX, iPhone, etc, is controlled by a single corporate entity you are asking for abuse of power. What amazes me however is that Apple is getting so abusive so early in the game. If this is how they behave when they have 10% of the PC market and 2% of the phone market, how will they behave when they come to control a much larger slice of the pie?
We saw this coming with Apple's original bricking of 1G iPhones to punish those who were only trying to improve the platform. Steve Jobs is such a control freak and knows that his fanboys are so freakishly loyal that he can pound them in the ass every so often and they'll just keep taking it. This is why I waited for an Android phone even when it meant putting up with an old treo 650 for 2 years more than I had hoped to.
These types of behavior aren't new. Apple has always behaved like this. It's just that they're bigger and more visible now, so it gets noticed more than it ever has in the past.
i'm just waiting for the 'bag of hurt' feature to be added to the iphone.
Blu Ray in the phone? what?
I think he's talking about putting a bag over his head and people hitting him with iPhones!
ahh "bag of hurt" the new over used phrase, joining the likes of "douche bag" and "fail" and "epic fail".
That's Apple for ya! Android FTW!
what i don't understand is why? are they worried podcaster will do it better? no one will want to download podcaster if the iphone does it for free.
I rather thought that was the point - they were protecting consumers from paying for a feature that they probably had on the to-do list for some time. They don't seem to have been desperately concerned about competition for other built-in apps, and why should they be? Makes no difference to them. This anti-competitive fuss smells like bollocks to me. And as a man, I know about bollocks.
I'm sure they don't want to stomp on little guys, it just happens sometimes when you're an 800lb gorilla because you have to put your feet _somewhere_. Like with the guys at Panic, back in the day: http://www.panic.com/extras/audionstory/
Hey how's that new room for rent working out for you?
They sell the Apple "image". The consumer buys the "image". They want to protect the "image" otherwise the consumer gets bored and does not buy the "image".
"Image", guys. Not anti-trust or control freaks.
That's the dumbest thing ever. Must be slobbin' Steve-o's knob, eh iHoppgimpula. You and engaget. Apple's "image"? They could give a crap now. They have everyone drinking their koolaid so they can do what they want. Everyone bought into the hype over the past 5 years and it doesn't matter what Apple does now, the mindless sheep still flock around them and empty their wallets at the feet of the cocky smug Steve Jobs.
It's about control and always has been. That's how Jobs is.
LOL@inguatu : was iHoppipollas slam on Apple to sublte for you?
Well, this is essentially the same "image" that MS got busted for back at the turn of the millennium. And I'd find you more credible if you knew how to correctly type the word "antitrust."
It wasn't a slam.
Y'all need to take some marketing classes. I understand what Apple is doing, overall. I may disagree with the Podcaster issue but the market being what it is. If I disagree with a company, I don't buy their products. Grow up and use that energy for something useful.
I'm sorry. I fail to see the similarities between Apple rejecting an app and MS' issue.
And I will take some english classes to make up for my inability to spell "antitrust"
apple has been worse than microsoft in many ways for years, but at least apple/google have better PR management than microsoft.
and er Microsoft has Ballmer.
Could Apple please stop screwing up applications with this 10MB limit nonsense? This feature for many podcasts will be useless. I actually dont think there is one podcast in my list that would go under 10 MB. Skimming some rss feeds it doesnt look like any of these have an entry under 10mb.
Giant Bombcast (video games)
Buzz Out Loud (tech)
Engadget's own podcast
Is there a reason for it other than going easy on data usage in the interest of the service providers?
If they can't roll out the feature to the point that its useful, please let someone else put an app out there that can.
Someone tried to a few months ago, but Apple wouldn't let him release the thing because it is better than their own upcoming podcast feature. Then they muted further concerns with another NDA.
Apple is so cute when they are insecure ;)
Oh, jesus. Big f'ing deal! If Apple does this themselves, the implementation will be better and more consistent. I don't see the problem. When you buy into the Apple universe this is what you're signing up for. If you don't like it go get an Android G-1.
If you don't see what the issue is here, I don't think you ever will...
Actually no it won't in this case. 10MB cap makes this practically useless. Im not even talking about video, just audio alone are likely to be larger than that.
Confirm that. Latest Buzz Out Loud (probably 30 minutes or so) is over 14MB. And there are lots of longer audio podcasts...
I would much rather have these features integrated into the iPhone's main software rather than download tons of apps that add functionallity. It makes complete sense that apple woul want that too because it imporves the user experience. Now if they'd only integrate a wide keyboard for mail and text...
Apple need to fix one simple problem with the iPhone, and that is a VIDEO recorder. I'm using Cycorder with a jailbroken iPhone and the video quality is epic for a 2MP camera - so Apple can do an even better job. DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!
Does the iPhone's camera hardware actually support video, or is it some kind of hack? If it does, Apple is an idiot for not including it from day one.
The platform is a trap (cue Admiral Ackbar).
If you come up with a good idea or make significant money, Apple will jump in and take your idea and clone it.
The Mac has been like this for a lot of utility apps too (and PC), but those platforms move much more slowly, so at least the developer had a chance to make some money before the biggies stepped in.
But it's far worse on the iPhone because it moves so much more quickly and because Apple can flat out reject your app if they want. It's a closed platform, it has only one master.
I don't entirely agree with you, there are a lot of devs doing well with the platform. Apple has added functionality here that is congruent with iTunes. It should have been there from the onset of the iTunes Store on the phone/touch platform, but it wasn't. Maybe they needed to gauge how much usage mobile users would put on the 3G network before implementing it.
A dev beat them to the punch, but I think it's very likely Apple was always planning support for the very popular 'podcast' concept, one that they have ALWAYS supported and fostered in iTunes, and actually branded with their 'pod' monicker.
What's weird is that apple didn't add download over wifi from day one, through an iphone version of itunes. That was a plain silly decision.
Another silly strategy is to force people to crack their own phones to get functionality that just about every other smartphone on the planet has out of the box.
don't you see that they are all evil? google will be as bad... there is only one good in business: profit.
all the rules, regulations, etc.... they just make the art of deviousness and anticompetitiveness more interesting to watch.
reject all tech and return to the forest, that's what i say...
-a.g.
Grammar Girl looks like Sarah Palin...
Hey, here's an Idea. Instead of crying Apple monopoly how about engaging the part of your brain that uses reason and logic to see that when it comes to apps that use ATT's cell network Apple seems to have to follow ATT's rules. It has been clear from the start that the iPhone was a collaborative effort between ATT and Apple and ATT seems to be very picky about their cell network bandwidth. I bet if you did some investigative journalism you would discover that the Podcaster app does not have a 10MB limit built into it and thus does not play by ATT's rules.
I support ATT's efforts to keep as much cell bandwidth available and am glad someone is looking after the health of the whole network and not just the selfish interests of the app developers who may or may not care about much bandwidth their apps consume.
If you doubt my position try using your iPhone in San Francisco some time.
What is the purpose of offering/paying for a data network if you can't use it for the types of things you do on a daily basis? If AT&T is behind the 10MB limit, they ought to be ashamed of themselves. If their network can't handle 10MB downloads maybe they are in the wrong business.
Firstly your argument is so closed-minded (in the new Obama US) it's unreal. AT&T are the network in the US, they are not the worldwide network and the iPhone at last check was available in quite a few countries worldwide. So no the phone is not a collaboration!
Secondly Podcaster worked over Wifi (and Apple could of stipulated that too), so your argument (apologism) is completely moot.
The 10MB cap on over-the-air downloads makes this feature next to worthless on-the-go. I can't think of a single podcast that has downloads under 10MB. An audio podcast of 30 minutes is roughly 20MB. How many podcasts are there that are worth listening to that are less than 15 minutes long?
Along the same line, I've never understood why I can browse the app store and download an 8+MB app over 3G, but I'm barred from even accessing the music store if I'm connecting with anything other than wifi? Maybe they want to preserve the swift response of a tune preview with the ITMS? Just doesn't seem to make sense.
Who cares if I want to download a 50MB podcast (one or two hours of music) over 3G? As long as I have a cell signal and a data plan that'll accomodate it why can't it be my choice?
-Pete
Couldn't this have more to do with keeping the reins on potentially large data transfers as it relates to their agreement with AT&T?
People need to chill out and get over it.
A PODcaster type application, although a great idea- is not unique. Furthermore, look at the name of the thing: "PODcaster"... Uh, Apple invented the word in relation to this industry. Although the word "POD" is not Apple's, they certainly have a pretty strong case in saying that the idea was already under development when the dev submitted his version of it.
What the developer (and other devs) should be asking for is the right to sell "podcaster" on the app store even though it duplicates (or will duplicate) functionalities. Let users pick. THAT's where I have an issue with it.
lol what?
Nice comment.
Apple neither invented the term 'podcast' or the concept of podcasts, so "lol what?" is a perfectly reasonable respone to an ill-informed post.
funny, I thought the "pod" in "podcast" somehow related to the "pod" in "ipod"....
So, based on your argument, if the Podcaster people called it something like, oh I don't know, "MediaHound" or "GetMyFeeds", Apple wouldn't have any problem in allowing this application to be on the App Store?
The point of this whole article is, why do developers for apps have to guess what Apple's working on and then decide whether or not to dedicate time developing an app which does not conflict with Apple?
I had been waiting for my AT&T contract to expire next week in order to get an IPhone, but taking a hard look at application availability, and Apple's restrictions on application functionality, I've decided to get an AT&T Fuze (HTC Touch Pro). It does everything the IPhone does and more (QWERTY, AD2P, copy&paste, etc.), and there's a whole world of Windows Mobile apps out there. Useful ones for a change. The IPhone is a revolutionary device, but Apple is ruining it with their bonehead policies.
As far as openness and utility goes, I think you might be better off either going with a Symbian OS device on AT&T or waiting for an AT&T Android device. (possibly in the form of one designed for other markets which will work with AT&T's 3G bands) The iPhone sucks, but I think you'll also find that Windows Mobile sucks a lot too.
Another option is to switch to T-Mobile and get a G1. It is awesome.
Steve Jobs is a commie. Way worse than Gates and the boys at mickeysoft... Jobs has made it abundantly clear that we only have his permission to play with his toys. We own nothing.
Ooops, I forgot. If you need to download a podcast bigger than 10MB just swing by a Starbucks... They are everywhere and as an iPhone user you get free wifi.
problem solved.
...or just ditch the iPhone, get a WinMoile phone with WiFi, WMWifiRouter app (turns your phone into a mobile hotspot/router) and an iPod Touch and $15 3G data plan from Sprint (tons more consistent EVDO revA coverage too) and still have lotsa change left over after considering the sale of the iPhone and monthly bill savings.
...'tis what i do.
No need for the immensely stoooooopid habit of looking for a Starbucks just to leech off WiFi.
LOL, @ not w/
It's like the True Apple Supporters like to bend over for their god, and they even bring their own lube.
Hilarious. Why would anyone waste their time developing for the iPhone? Apple is just going to screw you if the idea is good. If I was the dev of the original podcast app for the device I'd lawyer up and roll in with the FTC.
That would imply that Apple hadn't already planned to implement the idea first, which we don't know, and I suspect that already did.
The Engadget article is a bis misleading because it leads you to think that Apple stole the idea, when that may not be the case at all.
I don't care much either way, the iPhone does pretty much all that I need it to, and if it didn't, I have a plethora of other phones to chose from, so does everyone else. No big deal.
"Why would anyone waste their time developing for the iPhone? Apple is just going to screw you if the idea is good. If I was the dev of the original podcast app for the device I'd lawyer up and roll in with the FTC."
But you ain't the dev are you?
In answer to your first question it's because there are big bucks to be made. And people are making them.
This the future. The closed platform means that all information must go through one entity. Apple is doing it with iPhone, MS is doing it, to a lesser extent, with the Xbox 360. Google is trying to give us an truly open cell phone platform, but once everybody else smells the money, everyone will go towards the iPhone business model. Of course the moderate success of Amazon's download service against iTunes gives me hope.
NOTE: Open platform DOES not mean open source. Windows and OSX are open platforms, as you need nobody's approval to develop for them and you can use any way you choose to distribute them.
Not everybody drinks coffee, or likes to be ripped off.
Because I would much rather pay a third party for software when Apple offers it for free.
No one gives a crap except for a few Apple haters.
You actually think the general public that owns 8 million iPhones cares about this.
So 3 or 4 developers got dumped on because they broke the SDK guidelines and NOT for competing with Apple. You make it sound like this is happing to dozens of developers. What a bunch of BS!
There are new applications and developers coming on board every day.
That's not the story. Apple DIDN'T have that function at the time. The guy who developed Podcaster was totally hosed, or are developers supposed to predict what Apple may or may not do in the future before developing something.
Given the outcry, there's more than a few people (RIGHTLY) hatin' on Apple for this. I personally know a few people who have stopped downloading anything but free apps at this point.