Microsoft disses Hybrid SLI and CrossFire, won't support them in Windows 7
By Samuel Axon 
posted Nov 6th 2008 1:21PM
posted Nov 6th 2008 1:21PM
We're expecting a ton of new laptops to support hybrid graphics thanks to chipsets like NVIDIA's soon-to-be-ubiquitous GeForce 9400M, but Microsoft isn't as enamored with hybrid graphics as most everyone else seems to be -- it says it won't be natively supporting them in Windows 7. In a just-released document titled Guidelines for Graphics in Windows 7, the company discourages manufacturers from shipping systems with hybrid graphics like ATI's CrossFire and NVIDIA's Hybrid SLI, claiming they're "unstable and provide a poor user experience." Oh, snap. One less reason to install Windows 7 on your MacBook Pro, eh wot?
Well that's poopy heiney :(
Wow, this tears it. I was waiting to see what Microsoft was going to do with Windows 7 and games support was my biggest concern, especially after losing 25 to 30 percent of my prior video game performance with Vista. I was already going to buy a MacBook Pro this holiday, but it looks like XP will be installed with Boot Camp.
Thanks, Microsoft, for making this choice easy for me. You better hope Apple doesn't make a gaming division and buy out a company like Valve. Then you'll be REALLY screwed.
Don't worry. The switching will be handle by Nvidia's driver, and will be more seamless than on the new Macs. On the Mac, you have to log out. In Windows 7, you won't have to. There are already Windows systems that can switch graphics modes on the fly, and Windows 7 isn't even out yet.
The idea of VALVe being owned by Apple is just... EUGH!!!!!
Nothing against Apple, but the way they work just doesn't work with VALVe
Why? Drivers for this should be provided by NVIDIA or ATI and not by MS. I don't know why everyone is up in arms here. This is normal. When you buy a computer with two video cards, MS didn't write the drivers to support that SLI, so why should they support Hybrid SLI?
@paul....
XP doesn't have Native SLI or Crossfire support either.
Seriously.....you can't be bothered to install a CD to make your gaming rig work?
All this means is that nVidia and ATI can't depend on Microsoft to do their jobs for them.
@Mike Cerm, who said: "Don't worry. The switching will be handle by Nvidia's driver, and will be more seamless than on the new Macs..."
Dude, you're talking about Leopard. I'm looking to the future, to Snow Leopard, which is obviously going to come out before Windows 7. Do you really think that Nvidia won't make drivers that switch on the fly with Snow Leopard, which is going to feature OpenCL and Grand Central, among many other things?
Microsoft abandoned PC gaming to focus on the Xbox and now Nvidia is obviously in Apple's pocket, in view of the changes with the new MacBooks, and Apple is rushing ahead to take advantage of Microsoft's distraction with Sony and Google.
I'm just waiting for that other shoe to drop, when Apple announces some kind of gaming division. They already snared a bunch of my friends by developing Boot Camp and now they've taken the lead in video processing. It's over. Microsoft is done.
@Paul Chapel
Thanks for confirming you're a liar and a shill.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2303830,00.asp
25% drop my arse.
Now GTFO.
@Mark Anderson
To get the kind of performance that article cites, you gotta have a Vista computer that's BETTER than your XP set-up. Crysis is a prime example. The specs for Crysis is a 2.8 GHz processor for XP, but a freaking 3.2 GHz processor for Vista!
It's 1 GB of RAM for XP and 1.5 GB for Vista! Those are the MINIMUM requirements!
That sucks! Microsoft keeps backing me into a corner. There's no reason for me to use Vista, because the video game performance is so choppy. I was waiting eagerly for Windows 7, hoping for something more than that multi-touch crap and now I find out SLI isn't going to be supported. Yeah, maybe XP doesn't support it natively, but what will Windows 7 have that I can't get with XP? What? The dock? Well, golly gee, OS X already has that.
I guess I'm just getting frustrated with all the cool stuff coming out for Macs. I was at my best friend's house and he's playing around with iChat. He does this screen sharing function and it literally takes two clicks to make it work. He opens Firefox on his cousin's Mac and takes him to a web site instead of telling over the iSight mic and logs out without so much as a sneeze.
Now I've used remote sharing with XP Pro, but it's painful to set it up. Apple has made this crap look easy and it's seamless, right out the box. Now that has me thinking, yeah, Microsoft is probably going to have a lot of cool things, but who's implementation is going to be better? Right now, Apple is winning that war hands down, so if someone is telling me they will support SLI, I'm going to have to go with Apple. It's as simple as that.
mike,
windows 7 is years away, the only reason the latest macbook pro requires log-out is purely of software nature, presumably apple and nvidia are still working together to make sure everything gets sorted before shipping the software upgrade. by all means by the time windows 7 ships, apple should've introduced snow leopard a couple of months ahead, with grand arcade. microsoft is just struggling so hard just to keep up with apple these years, not to mention for it to be "innovative". get a macbook pro now and start using the existing latest technology immediately and install a software upgrade patch in a few month to allow on-to-go switching, and upgrade to snow leopard when it comes out to unleash the full gpu power, or be stuck with microsoft build and wait forever for the windows 7, it's all your call...
Mark Anderson, just look at Paul Chapel's post history; you can tell he's been a fanboy and liar since his arrival. He's of no use and offers nothing intelligent to the discussion at hand.
Trolling Paul is trolling.
You guys keep falling for Microsoft's Hope game. I'm not falling for that crap anymore. I waited patiently as Microsoft over promised and under delivered on Vista for six years and I'm not waiting for them to catch up with what Apple had years ago, eight years too late. I'm not doing it. Low Rank me if you must, but Steve Ballmer is killing this company. I might be optimistic if Bill was still in charge, but he isn't.
I'm buying a MacBook Pro for Christmas and I'll boot XP to play some Valve games, but once Call of Duty 4 comes out for OS X, I'm leaving the Microsoft farm forever. Like Luke Skywalker, I'm joining the rebellion.
@ Paul Chapel
If you are going to cry and whine, throwing around statistics about how bad Microsoft is and how great Apple is, but you won't do a quick google search to see if Call of Duty 4 is already out for OS X. Here is a link DIRECT to Apple's product page:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TR102LL/A?cid=OAS-US-KWG-CPUAccessories-US
I don't know which is worse, the fact that you tried to come off like you knew you're shit, or that you're just a Mac Fan-Boy spreading hype.
@Peppie, who said: "Call of Duty 4 is already out for OS X."
Dude, I don't have a Mac, so why would I know that? But thanks, that makes me even more excited. MacBook Pro, here I come.
Mr. Chapel, you have time and time again shoved your foot in your mouth and then your head in your, as they say, arse. If you read the article - which you obviously did not - you would note that all tests were performed on identical machines. The same machine, in fact. Operating systems were installed on separate hard drives that were physically swapped by changing the cabling. That is identical as a test scenario can be.
Mac OSX Snow Leopard will almost certainly not support hybrid SLI or crossfire natively. I realize that now that I have said that you will claim that I am incorrect without reading further, but I shall go on for the benefit of people who are not you. By "native", I mean at the OS level. There is no reason for them to do so, and it would only hurt their stranglehold on their operating system/machine lockdown. The Mac universe of hardware is so woefully small that they can simply write the drivers. True native OS level support would play into the people who put OSX on non-Macs and I don't think anyone believes that Apple wants that.
Introducing, Haterade!
Paul Chapel took it, and if you want to end up like a complete jackass like him, you should too!
@John
Well, Mr. John, I read that article when it originally came out and the tests concluded that XP SP3 was still faster than Vista SP1, but XP Service Pack 2 was faster than both. That's the point here, Mr. John. SERVICE PACK 3. Any N00b worth his salt knows that SERVICE PACK 3 actually decreased video game performance with XP. I personally believe that Microsoft did this to make Vista look better, but since I have no absolutely proof of that, let's stick to the facts, MR. JOHN.
My version of Windows, XP Pro, Service Pack 2, runs faster than Vista SP1 and that's on the same hardware, Mr. John. Every game I buy has higher hardware requirements for Vista. It's in the realm of 25 to 30 percent if you take in account FPS and RAM allocation, which is what ultimately matters to most gamers, Mr. John, John, sir.
Paul,
Those of us without XP aren't required to know what SP3 does to XP.
I went on Apple's site and read up some more about Snow Leopard. Man, I feel scared for Microsoft. This is a quote from the site:
OpenCL
"Another powerful Snow Leopard technology, OpenCL (Open Computing Language), makes it possible for developers to efficiently tap the vast gigaflops of computing power currently locked up in the graphics processing unit (GPU). With GPUs approaching processing speeds of a trillion operations per second, they’re capable of considerably more than just drawing pictures. OpenCL takes that power and redirects it for general-purpose computing."
Multicore
“Grand Central,” a new set of technologies built into Snow Leopard, brings unrivaled support for multicore systems to Mac OS X. More cores, not faster clock speeds, drive performance increases in today’s processors. Grand Central takes full advantage by making all of Mac OS X multicore aware and optimizing it for allocating tasks across multiple cores and processors. Grand Central also makes it much easier for developers to create programs that squeeze every last drop of power from multicore systems."
Come on, Microsoft, don't stick your head in the sand. And if you don't think Apple can get further ahead, just remember what they did with the iPhone. Get rid of Ballmer before it's too late!
Paul,
It is better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.
(for the record, I'm a long-time linux user and couldn't care less about windows or OSX, so you can read the above without suspecting fanboyism)
There is one word that describes people who continue to argue their position despite the overwhelming amounts of evidence stacked up against them: fanboy. I don't think there's any point in arguing with Paul - it's feeding the troll at its worst, really.
Let him live in his own fantasy world in which those benchmark results were fabricated by Microsoft.
@ Paul:
You keep bitching and moaning about how you need so much better hardware to run vista and that XP runs so much faster. you know that if xp is that fast, I bet windows 98 will be blazing fast on that setup of yours. OH WAIT, it wont support modern hardware that you have become so accustomed to. WIndows XP is getting to that point. Operating systems get bigger over time. Whether it be windows, OSX, or whatever, thats just the nature of the beast.
There is only so far that an OS can take us, and XP has reached that limit. I havent had any problems with vista since SP1, but i agree that they need to stray away from the vista name just to rejuvenate their product line. I dont know if you have read any of the articles posted about windows 7, but it runs extremely well on low power machines, but at the same time provides support for the latest technology. Once windows 7 is released, XP needs to die, and people need to stop being so stubborn an upgrade. I cannot begin to tell you how many times someone has told me "oh i dont want vista because my friend told me it sucked." its not bad, people are just idiots
@jorvay, who said: "It is better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt."
As a linux user, you no doubt understand this better than most.
@ coolbho3000, who said: "There is one word that describes people who continue to argue their position despite the overwhelming amounts of evidence stacked up against them."
What is this evidence that you speak of? I haven't seen anyone presenting evidence. All I've seen is people calling me a fanboy (a fanboy of what? XP? Guilty as charged) and linking to articles that support what I originally said: Vista is slower than XP. So, okay, thanks for all that great evidence, which is actually proving my original point.
Look, don't hate on me just because you guys can't handle the truth. For the past few years, Apple has been getting to everything first. They created a successful MP3 download market before Microsoft. They got multi-touch before Microsoft. They got EFI before Microsoft. They had the thinnest laptop and the smallest processor from Intel, before Microsoft. This is not what I believe, this is what has been happening. Calling me a fanboy is not going to change the facts.
I was a loyal PC user for years, but Microsoft hasn't put out a good operating system since I was in Junior High. I have to move on if they aren't willing to step up to the plate. It's nothing personal, just business, guys.
But go ahead, flame me and Low Rank me if it makes you feel better. Microsoft will still suck tomorrow.
Paul Chapel, you just said,
"... Microsoft will still suck tomorrow."
Just the other day you said,
"...I'm a diehard PC guy."
I take it you have split personalities.
No, Paul, you didn't read the article, because you claimed that they ran Vista on a 3.2GHz processor and XP on a 2.8GHz processor, and additionally, XP SP2 did not outperform Vista SP1 and XP SP3. It did outperform vanilla Vista (Vista no service pack) but not SP1. You did not read the article, now or when it came out, and it would behoove you to cut your losses and stop pretending to be a pariah.
@John
What are you talking about, Mr. John? I bought up the 2.8 and 3.2 GHz processors because I was talking about Crysis. It's an example of what you need to run Crysis on MINIMUM with Vista. That's a travesty. These aren't numbers I pulled out of thin air. They're right on Crytek and EA's web site.
Look, this crap with Vista and now Windows 7, hurts me more than anyone. I used to make fun of my best friend because of my prejudice against Macs and their "inferior" hardware. I used to brag about SLi and all the great things I thought were coming out for Windows 7. Microsoft has completely ignored the gamers and has made me look like a fool. In fact, with the new dock and multi-touch crap, it's pretty obvious to me that they're copying Apple. Now my best friend mocks me, and there's nothing I can say to defend them.
Microsoft has turned a former Apple hater into a guy who's on the verge of buying a MacBook Pro. It's not Apple's fault. It's Microsoft.
wow 4 lowest ranked's and 3 low ranked's. Paul is a champ.
ok Paul. buy a MPB. Microsoft really couldn't care less.
@maveric101, who said: "wow 4 lowest ranked's and 3 low ranked's."
And yet, people like you continue to read what I write. Who gives a crap if they Low Rank me. Microsoft is not going to get better until people stop drinking their Kool-Aid and actually start to challenge them as a company to do better.
if you don't care what people think then why do you keep coming back here to defend yourself?
also,
"It took about a year and a half, but the performance gap between Vista and its forerunner has finally evaporated."
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302527,00.asp
and gaming results:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302500,00.asp
Vista SP1 ties or beats XP SP3 and even your precious XP SP2 on every test. you are so wrong. and apparently even your "best friend" makes fun of you now. shit, you're worse than iEye.
and before you bring back the 2.8GHz/3.2GHz thing, that was referring to the single-core P4's, and even so that difference obviously doesn't exist anymore since Vista SP1 and the better drivers came out.
P.S. Jason, sorry for everyone raping your inbox.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302499,00.asp
I love how people cherry pick their data. The CPU and Memory speeds of XP SP2 AND SP3 were both higher than Vista SP1. And the results still don't change what's on every box of every new game, which is higher hardware requirements for Vista.
And the conclusion of the article ISN'T that Vista is better. The conclusion of the article is that Microsoft has CLOSED THE GAP between Vista and XP. I'm sorry, but I'm not upgrading because Vista is almost as good. I only upgrade when I can get BETTER performance.
Microsoft had six years and the best they could do is ALMOST AS GOOD? Give me a break.
lets compromise and say XP and Vista tied in performance. keep in mind that vista is also using DX10.
do you just need a hug?
@Paul Chapel
Please stop talking. You're embarrassing humanity.
You guys don't have to read what I write, you just have to agree with me. And anyway, why are we talking about Vista? This article is about Windows 7 and par for course Microsoft is making it suck.
My prediction? People are going to be wowed by the multi-touch stuff for exactly two days before the drag on their arms bring their hands back down to the keyboard and mouse. The new dock will be confusing and people will be screaming for a "classic" mode and will no doubt look over at their Mac brothers, who will be using Snow Leopard, which will be A LOT faster, no doubt, and they will cry for the days when Microsoft still made OPERATING SYSTEMS instead of pet projects that compete with ideas already done better by companies like Google.
That's my humble opinion, of course. Just saying.
@Paul Chapel
Stop whining you fucken retard! You've been wrong since your incredibly asinine first comment and you'll continue to be wrong.
So let me drop down to your level to say this...
Believe what YOU want to believe... get your MBP, open your mouth, and guzzle down the jizz that drops down into your mouth as Steve Jobs shoots it into your face and accept him as your one true savior.
@allislost,
You are my hero! I don't know of anybody else who would have the balls to say that to another man.
As for you, Paul,
I for one would love a touchscreen AND an operating system built for it. Windows 7 (to me) looks pretty cool. As a current Vista user, I can wholeheartedly say that I am not angry at Microsoft for making Vista the way it is. A little disappointed that it didn't live up to its full potential, yes. It could be better, but I have not lost a single ounce of faith in Microsoft. They most certainly can (and will) redeem themselves.
For somebody who likes the iPhone so much (proof-link below), you sure did seem to hate on multi-touch touchscreens when you said that "People are going to be wowed by the multi-touch stuff for exactly two days before the drag on their arms bring their hands back down to the keyboard and mouse."
iPhone lover's proof-link:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/31/new-macbook-air-hits-the-streets-actually-capable-of-this-whole/comments/15240217/
P.S. Paul, you have been trolling this great site of ours for almost 9 hours. I think you won a cookie!
@allislost, who said: "guzzle down the jizz that drops down into your mouth as Steve Jobs shoots it into your face and accept him as your one true savior."
Better Steve Jobs than Steve BALLMER. Yuck.
@ PAUL
"MacBook Pro, here I come."
i think his referring to the one in his basement that he has not used in a year because he cannot work out how to use OSX.
@Paul Chapel
"Better Steve Jobs than Steve BALLMER"
Somehow... I'm not surprised that you enjoy the taste of jizz...
I, from a heterosexual point of view, cannot understand why you would rather have Steve Jobs splatter your face than Ballmer or both, but to each his own.
Lol, this thread is so full of pwn! Keep the good work up lads, keep the trolls off this site!
Well, well, so this is what happens when a fellow PC user starts to tell the truth about Microsoft.
Steve Ballmer's followers come out of the woodwork to try to "pwn" the guy that does it. Not one person has come back at me with anything reasonable to dispute what I have said. No one has explained to me how Windows 7 is going to be much better than Vista, without SLi or any other significant feature. The whole industry is moving toward graphics processing and multi-core processing and yet all Microosoft can do is throw in a pretty interface that no one will use again after two days.
Have fun with your Fisher Price operating system. I'm getting a Mac.
"Not one person has come back at me with anything reasonable to dispute what I have said."
you haven't said anything reasonable to begin with.
dispute this: you're an ass, and nobody loves you.
and honestly, nobody cares if you get a mac.
@maveric101, who said: "and honestly, nobody cares if you get a mac."
Yeah, right, you care so little that you keep coming back to tell me you don't care. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
seriously, go buy a mac. maybe then you'll shut up.
Poul Chapel I'm not sure what kind of salvation you think it is that Apple offers, but I've been using Macs for the better part of a decade now and I can tell you that it surely isn't there. It's a nice system if you like technology to work right out of the box, but as soon as you need any sort of performance, customization or the likes you'll soon find yourself shit out of luck because Apple doesn't really sell that.
It's really very obscoure to see people talk about Apple as though it's more than just a company out to make money, because the only reason anyone would think so is because of Apple's marketing and I'd frankly like to think people aren't that stupid.
It'll be supported eventually. I'm not worried...
...with glitchy 3rd party drivers.
Do you not use "3rd party" drivers now? Honestly, this just means, instead of natively from Microsoft, you're drivers will come from Nvidia or ATI, as usual.