Logic 3's Valve80 brings that tubular sound to the iPod
By Darren Murph 
posted Nov 16th 2008 10:59AM
posted Nov 16th 2008 10:59AM
[Via T3]
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That is one ugly piece of machinery.
Not only that, why on earth would you use valve ampliflication on a digital device, not only any digital device, but the worst sounding devices on the planet?
I mean iPod is not exactly the player of choice for anyone that actually cares about music, it's for people that care about image.
People would scoff at the idea of plugging a Binatone cassette deck into this, but happilly plug an equally bad sounding iPod into one... Madness...
The bigger problem is that all popular music since the late '90s has been destroyed by DYNAMIC (not data) compression. Even if you rip CDs to a lossless codec, it doesn't matter: The record companies are ruining music in the mastering process to make it seem "louder", for no reason. And they're going back and destroying the music in their back catalogs as well, meaning that current and future generations will never experience the quality of sound we had 20 or 30 years ago. Pathetic.
The sad fact is that, for any music mastered in the last decade, there is no reason to own a decent stereo.
Mike,
And bashing the iPod's sound quality is for people who care more about sounding hip and in-the-know and 'alternative' than for people who actually know anything.
As DAPs go, the iPod is generally considered to have somewhat above average sound quality. Some models have very good quality, some not as good. It's far from the worst, which you clearly claim just because you're a tool.
No go back to ranting about what slaves to pop culture Starbucks patrons are. It makes you sound sooo smart and sophisticated.
Sheesh, people, get down from your soapboxes. It's a tube amp and included speakers costing less than $500. It will sound mediocre no matter what source it's hooked up to. Looking objectively at what you get for the price, though, it's actually pretty sweet.
I'm not really sure I see the point of this. If you are a hifi-geek, which I suppose this stuff is aimed at, would you have your music content encoded in lossy mp3 format on an iPod? Just a thought.
Yes, the sound you get is only as good as the weakest link. In this case, I'm pretty sure the pre-amp/decoder in the player and the format itself are going to be your bottlenecks.
Crapgadget candidate?
They could sell it without the dock, or add the dock and slap on a nice surcharge. It's easier to market these things when they're iPod "compatible" or "ready". We had two stereo systems that were exactly the same, but one had an iPod dock and cost about $50 more. It still might sound good through the audio ins depending on what you hook in there.
Does anybody know of any brand that sells systems, or any sort of accessory, that supports multiple types of connectors? It'd be nice if these things, instead of having iPod only docks, had (for example) removable adapters with a standard USB-A on the bottom and brand-specific dock connectors on the top so you could switch them out and still have all the extra functionality for video, remote control, etc. I think the hardest part would be keeping up to date with the different software necessary to integrate new MP3 players, but I'm sure it'd be possible and just imagine how much money you could charge for it. The different dock connectors alone I bet would be cheap as hell to manufacture but able to be sold for a large profit and still be relatively inexpensive for the consumer.
Really, one of the reasons Apples has a strangehold on the market is the accessories. It's relatively hard to find stereo systems specific for Zunes or Sansas in stores, at least compared to how easy it is to find such things for the iPod. Once people buy an iPod and get all kinds of car and home accessories for it, they're less likely to jump ship if there will be compatibility/functionality issues.
don't forget that itunes has the option of burning your CDs to ALAC lossless format which i use for all the classical music i 'borrow' from the library.
The weakest link is ALWAYS the speakers. Even a bad MP3 is nothing compared to really good speakers. This has no sub-woofer and the mid-range cones look to be about 15 cm. So the bass is going to be super-disappointing. There's no point in selling a $450 stereo system without a subwoofer or a pair of 12" woofers in normal speaker cabinets.
The iPod can use a lossless compression format (see above) so there's no reason for it to be the weakest link. The weakest link here is the speaker systems, but that's true for every stereo set.
@nate
It also has audio ins and outs. And despite the iPod's sound quality, this could be a very nice piece of machinery. Definitely not a crapgadget.
Split hairs if you want, but if you buy this you are a moron.
@Larry your view on speakers being the weak link although true in some cases is generally regarded as being an outdated one, the source and amplification are usually where most of the detail of the sound is either preserved or lost. As for a stereo setup needing a subwoofer or "12" inch woofers" if you have a truely good, balanced setup you won't need this. And as an aside, for £300 you can easily get a half decent amp and a set of speakers which will outshine this, something like a Rotel RA-04 and a set of Mordaunt-Shorts, nothing but a gimmick in my opinion.
I don't think their targeted market segment is audiophile geek. This is another product that sell base on the look. BOSE does sound awful to some people, but many still pay a premium to own those tiny speakers. My wife may be OK with this piece of equipment in our bedroom, but definitely not racks of preamp, power amp, DAC and speakers no matter how great it sounds.
Those 128-bit AAC tracks?
I don't mind connecting my iPod to my Hi-Fi set, since i got all my "loosy" 320Kbps mp3s for free on internet (god bless Bittorrent), which beats paying 10 bucks for a CD.
Um, you do realize that once you convert them to mp3/aac you loose all of your quality.
Now about the piracy..........
But mom, EVERYONE is doing it!
If I lost all quality surely I'd be hearing nothing.
Seriously, I hear barely any difference between 128-bit AAC, MP3 whatever over playing from a CD. Don't know if everyone on engadget is an audiophile but I have no complaints.
No difference between 128-bit and lossless???? Good god, you need better ears or better headphones. I admit I'm not sure if I can tell the difference between 320 and lossless, but as soon as I start a track that's 128 bit I know. 128-bit sounds terrible on my shures, and not too great even on my shitty 2.1 comp speakers that I got for 20 bucks at fry's.
300 squid for a 40 watt (stereo) hifi is not steep.
Steep? Well, it looks like cheap rebadged stuff from China, so for what it is it likely is pretty steep. It is rather too cheap to take serious. And pointless, as most "high end" "now with iPod dock" products.
What else did you expect from logic3?
I would try this out before bashing it. I've heard some really awesome sounding iPod docks, and this might be one of them. I don't really see the point in making a tube-based sound system, but I guess whatever floats your boat...
You don't see the point of a tube system? Maybe because tube can sound awesome compared to a piece of silicon. There are bad tube systems out there, but if someone takes the time to make a tube system, it is probably going to be pretty good.
Watts don't mean much and $450 is very reasonable as long as it sounds like it should. Especially considering the craptastic Bose dock is $300.
Wattage does mean quite a lot: price and, more importantly, headroom (which in turn has a huge effect on the sound) .
mr hanky - Ever hear of a class D or t-amp? Give it a listen and you will retract your statement. Efficient speakers + t-amp = musical bliss.
Looks like a pair of low-end B&W.
Are they serious? the only company that I would consider for 'tubes' is fatman. logic 3 getting into it seems a big joke to me. Looking at the images, the product seems poor.
I've got one of the fatman amps which looks a lot like this except the dock is a separate unit. It's actually a rebadged Dared Mp5 which is a nice little chinese amp and very well made. It's not a true valve amp since the output stage is mosfet (thats how they can claim 40W - a true 40W valve amp would need much bigger or many more valves). It does have a lovely smooth sound, and I expect this logic 3 one will be similar (it's almost exactly the same as the fatman 'carbon' also made by Dared) since it is in effect the same amp.
Wow, this would be really awesome if they had made it with oxygen free wires. Add some Monster cables and, SWEET!
HCT (not HTC) did the tube executive iPod stereo thing. A local store had them for $250, then with stagnant stock, the price finally went to $30 a year later - and people bought them.
Blatently John Lewis (where I work) will get them and we'll sell practically none of them.
It's not even a true tube amplifier - it uses a tube in the driver stage and the rest is solid state. Meh.
Better to get a pair of vintage Dynaco A-25 speakers and build a DIYTube ST35 kit.
And then there are the ones from fat-man.co.uk ...
Personal favorite...
I built my own tube amp from a kit for $150. I guess if you throw in some decent speakers it will get you up to $448, but what's the fun in that? Plus my amp is much more dangerous with exposed wires with the risk of electrocution. :D btw, it's a K-12M Tube Amp Kit, (all assembly required).
I remember reading about a company that added a direct analog out to ipods for a hefty sum. IF I had that conversion done, THEN I'd want something like this. But then I wouldn't need an amp with a built-in dock in the first place.