Apple: Snow Leopard release in Q1 2009
By Thomas Ricker 
posted November 19th 2008 3:23AM
posted November 19th 2008 3:23AM
[Via MacRumors]
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posted November 19th 2008 3:23AM
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This non-sequitur moment has been brought to you by Canonical.
I don't think there's a real strategic advantage for Microsoft in getting their OS out first. In fact, they might prefer to let any hype around Snow Leopard fizzle out before they make their big release.
Well, i guess it's a good thing my fiance is making me wait. At least i wont have to pony up more money for the new os. I'll have to start saving for the new macbook then.
Nice!! :D
Just release Mac OS XI already.
wait on. i think apple made a mistake. 'cheetah' was a beta too.
oh hold on, 'cheetah' was the mistake.
Snow leopard is optimizing, slimming down the core and speeding up the operation. Windows 7 is also said to optimize on the vista bloat.
It is a wonderful development. For both Mac users and Windows Users. Linux users have a bit more choice on what they want to run so their problems with bloated desktop components is a matter of choice.
I'm honestly not that bothered about the release date for 10.6. Just get it right on Day 1 and I'll be happy if it delivers updates that make a difference to me.
Running out of cats.
If they have snow leopard, maybe they can go off for "white tiger" or get all super-specific and call it Bengal or Siberian. Right now, though, there's still Cougar and Clouded Leopard (cf. Wikipedia's "big cat" article). Step down to medium-sized cats--hey, not bad considering the bloatware they're allegedly taking out for Snow Leopard--and we can get a Lynx.
Cougar, Clouded Leopard, Lynx--10.7, 10.8, 10.9.
OS 11.
They've got it covered.
I actually don't care which is out first as usually only upgrade my OS when I buy new hardware and since Vista does everything I need it to do very well just now it's a non-issue.
As for Snow Leopard, since it's only going to be available for Macs and since Macs don't natively run a good number of the applications and games I use it's going to have to be pretty impressive to catch my interest.
The problem with Mac OS upgrades is that they're frequent and that support for older versions vanishes far quicker than it does on Windows. For instance, you'll have trouble today finding major current Mac software that actually works on 10.3, which was released at the end of 2003. Mostly you need to be running 2005's 10.4. On Windows, it's quite common that software still works on Windows 2000, and there's virtually nothing that won't run on 2001's XP.
In some cases, key system components are tied to the OS version, meaning that this kind of restriction is guaranteed. For example, Java 6 (the current major version) is only available in 10.5, while Java 5 is only available in 10.4. You can't install a current Java version on older OS versions.
From a user point of view there is basically no difference between 10.3 and 10.5 (yes I'm a Mac user, and yes of those versions; I skipped 10.4). There are a few pretty gizmos you probably won't use and a general level of minor enhancements. Mostly you upgrade because you have to if you want to be able to actually keep running current cool software - not because you want to. Don't get me wrong the OS is still nice (and I do like the 'downloads' stack thingy, and it's fractionally convenient to be one keypress away from a calculator and crap J/E dictionary at any moment) but the actual version-to-version enhancements are really nothing special imo. If you upgrade separately from buying a new machine, it certainly feels like you're paying full price for a minor version update.
By the way is there *anything* new in 10.6? All I heard about was that they might be dropping support for non-Intel processors - like whatever.
With respect to Macs not supporting older hardware, typically this isn't true but in this case the transition from IBM's PowerPC processors to Intel's x86 processors is the culprit. Apple isn't Microsoft and they don't have the same level of resources so this shouldn't have come as a surprise. However, as has already been noted in this thread, it's surprising how much money you can get for a 2nd hand Mac in reasonable nick so you can probably get a new one for much less than you'd think.
With respect to new versions not adding much, it depends on what you want and use. Personally, I tend to get quite a bit out of each new release but your own mileage may vary. Just evaluate what is being delivered and decide whether you want them. However, I have to agree with you on the subject of Java - it does seem silly that you need to buy a new OS for the current version of Java, particularly since they stopped developing the Java to Cocoa Bridge API.
With regard to Snow Leopard, as far as we know it is supposed to deliver better performance through improved multi-processor support, a new memory manager and running application code on a GPU. Aside from this, full MS Exchange support will be built-in so that's a winner if you need that sort of thing. Whether Snow Leopard is going to be relevant to you will probably depend on whether you have a relatively new Mac (better multi-processing and 64-bit support isn't much use on a G4 PowerBook) or work somewhere that uses Exchange. There may be more but you'll probably have to wait until January to hear about it.
Reported for being a retard. Don't click it a virus.
I think only one of thes OSes is 'next gen'. Snow Leopard, though light on marketable 'features' is a ground up re-work of core elements of the OS, to really make it viable on 'next gen' hardware. When these OSes were architected, there were no such things as multi-core processors (at least in this space) and GPUs with so much power. It'll be interesting to see how Snow Leopard sets Apple up for the next 10-20 years.
Windows 7, on the other hand, just seems to be a service pack on Vista. A few new UI elements, cutting back on annoying elements like UAC, and very little else. Windows still has an ancient driver model, the hopeless registry, and NTFS. Where is all the next gen stuff we were promised in Longhorn? Microsoft really needs to do a drains up re-architecting of their OS core. Not faff around with eye-candy and 'features' to show off in preentations.
If you think Windows 7 is just a Vista service pack you are an idiot pure and simple.
Sure it borrows Vista elements just like Snow Leopard borrows all Leopards elements, the Windows 7 core has been stripped down of all the crap and rebuilt back up again, Windows 7 will run better than Vista did on lesser specs.
You don't know what the hell your talking about, or you are just as misinformed as all the other shit talkers.
The kernel has been reduced drastically, there are a ton of integration features like the device center and home group, the OS is multi-touch right from the get go, design queues are being standardized such as the ribbon and consistency among menu items, NTFS is fine (i dont know why people keep on bitching about it), a taskbar that is efficient, and is actually a combination of quick launch with window management, GPU processing via DX 11 (which might come to Vista, but who knows), etc.
Microsoft cannot build an OS from scratch using a new architecture like Apple can. They have a user base that is equivalent to grains of sand compared to Apples beach shells. They cannot abandon existing applications.
@Richy
As two other commenters have told you why you're wrong there's no real need to tell you again.
But I'm going to do it anyway: You're wrong.
Yeah, I can see that. It's not like the 300 new features in Osx or anything, where 6 of them were new fonts, 24 of them were in iChat or 11 NEW AMAZING features in a back up utility. It's pretty obvious to anyone you don't have a foggiest notion of what you're blabbering about..
here's a list of the new features SO FAR, no, new fonts are listed, unfortunately.. Read, experience first hand before you spew off misinformation. Also, keep in mind, W7 isn't even in beta yet.. Twit!
http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/ff.asp
I don't normally rise to the bait on these things, but the Wintards seem to be out in force today.
I've been a long time Windows user, and a recent Mac convert (thanks to Vista -- still use XP on my work Thinkpad X61); so in terms of Windows user experience, I have plenty. I'm also an IT consultant and systems/app architect, for which I'm luckly enough to be paid a fair amount of money. My clients value my opinion, which is worth rather more to me than the average basement dwelling blog commentator (I realise the hypocracy here..).
Firslty, I didn't say Win7 _was_ a service pack, more that is _seemed_ like a service pack; and was really jusy flamebait for all those who claim that each OS X 10.x is 'just a service pack'.
The Windows 'core' is not being stripped down. All the current evidence shows that MS are essentially fiddling with the edges of what was acheived in Visat. Granted, many elements in Vista were a significant re-write of 2000/XP, but Win 7 does not appear to be moving the game along significantly.
Multi-touch, ribbon, and consistent menus are not next gen features. Ribbon in particular seems to be change for changes sake. All UIs should be consistent -- it's the first rule of user experience design. NTFS is just about fine now, but won't be when we're trying to access terabytes of data. WinFS promised to be a step forward, but hasn't been mentioed (yet) for Win 7. It would be nice if we heard more on ZFS from Apple in this respect too.
Why can't MS build a new OS architecture from scratch? I don't think Apple's Rosetta technique would work too well for MS; but with virtualisation it's perfectly possible to keep people happy with their legacy apps? Computers have the power these days. It's simply inexcusable that MS keep key architectural elements of their OS hanging on from the mid-80s. MS could chuck in an XP license and code with each Win7 license -- they're basically doing that with Visat already.
@inno8sky: I agree with you that Apple's list of new 'features' on Leopard was rubbish. But, that's exactly the point I'm making. A good OS and a long list of 'brag' features tend to be mutually exclusive. The bits that make an OS good are the bits the average customer can't see or understand. And these bits are not the Registry, or an antiquated driver model, or 3.11/95 era Win32 APIs.
However, you then spectacularly mis the point by spewing pointless 'features' at me. And remember the list of features we got on Longhorn before that was in beta? All the actual game changing bits went, and we were essentially left with more eye-candy on top of an ancient Windows core. Finally, I won't stoop to your level of name calling.
"I don't normally rise to the bait on these things, but the Wintards seem to be out in force today."
Glad to see you won't stoop to my level and start name calling.. See you are a TWIT!
That comment and this one;
"My clients value my opinion, which is worth rather more to me than the average basement dwelling blog commentator (I realise the hypocracy here..)."
Reveals two things, 1) you're a back stabbing lightweight, and 2) you're probably the most arrogant person in your circle of jerks. Your words reveal you!
On a positive note
I'm was also pleased to read you think the leopard feature list was a joke. Finally, I've found a mac user that isn't entirely mind controlled. We ought to have you stuffed!
@Inno8sky.
Fair point on the name calling, I remebered I'd referred to people like you as Wintards only after I'd pressed submit. One of these days Engadget will allow comment editing...
I'm not sure what a back-stabbing lightweight is, or how my words reveal that. I apologise if my words appear arrogant. It's difficult to articulate the fact that my opinions are more than just my random thoughts, but something people are willing to pay for without sounding arrogant. By way of example, I also comment on a few F1 sites, but as I can neither drive an F1 car, nor have any experience of running an F1 team, my comments are essentially worthless.
And finally, not all Mac users are fanboys. Until last year, I didn't own anything Apple (my Mac experience has since lead me to buy an iPod Touch, 4G Nano, Apple TV, and an Airport Extreme) -- I too used to think they were style over substance. Judging by your avatar, you're not really interested in trying Apple stuf out, but I'd recommend it.
As you may be able to tell from my avatar, I'm happy using a variety of systems and OSes. I just choose whatever is best for me at the time.
And this is really why I'm so disappointed with MS. They have some of the best software engineers going; but seem to be a bit rudderless at the moment. They need to move the game on with Win 7, but don't appear to be. Which is a shame. Who knows, one day I may come back to Windows. It's just looking like that day won't be with Win 7.
"Snow Leopard, though light on marketable 'features' is a ground up re-work of core elements of the OS, to really make it viable on 'next gen' hardware."
...uh, thats EXACTLY was vista is.
Now that's a reasonable reply, I'll concede calling you a twit wasn't appropriate. In fact, I added it last second, shouldn't have really.
As for Microsoft, they're trying. Was Vista the best launch, of course it wasn't. There are a lot of reason why it didn't happen, not the least of which, they didn't get total buy in from the hardware manufacturers. HP, and others saw the Vista launch as a way of moving product. Case in point, my deskjet 9650. They decided that it was in their best interest not to develop new drivers for a printer less than a year old, but preferred that I buy their latest model. Even though their latest model wasn't any better, faster or more feature laden that the 9650. For the most part, I lay the blame on Microsoft's partners, they could have done much more to improve its transition. Were MS not responsible, no, they share in the blame, but not to the majority. In one way you're right, W7 is what Vista should have been. But in other ways, in my opinion anyway, they bring more value than what Cupertino bring with each new iteration of their OS.
As for my avatar, it's more about my disgust for Engadget and the blogs like it than it is about the company and their products. The way in which content is positioned here, or stories entirely overlooked that may cast a negative light on apple, or how any story about any PC based product including MS product is nearly always negative urks me to say the least. I have many friends that use both Windows based PC's and apple based PC's each to his/her own. I have no issue with anyone's preference, what I do take issue with is promoting one as better than the other., They both have their strengths and they both have their weakness. For me, the whole proprietary strategy from apple doesn't work. They sell everything at a premium, simply because it carries an apple emblem. Others may find that reassuring.
By the way, we may have more in common than not especially our chosen professions.
"NTFS is just about fine now, but won't be when we're trying to access terabytes of data. WinFS promised to be a step forward, but hasn't been mentioed (yet) for Win 7."
Wrong.
NTFS works just fine with terabytes of data. As well, WinFS was not a physical filesystem, so I have no idea how you think that it could have possibly improved any kind of volume size problem. If anything, the overhead it added would have hurt large volume performance. Apple's HFS+ to ZFS switch was different. They didn't have a good filesystem to start out with. HFS+ is crap. It's an antiquated filesystem with all of its 'modern' features haphazardly tacked on as afterthoughts (Journalling, ACLs, sparse files, etc.)
"Why can't MS build a new OS architecture from scratch?"
Because they don't need to.
Architecturally, there's nothing wrong with NT. When Apple switched from OS9 to OSX, they basically made a leap from an OS that was quite similar to Windows 9x in its deficiencies to an OS that's quite similar to NT in terms of its advantages. Microsoft made their big OS change back in 2001 with the death of ME and the rise of XP. Can you name any specific part of the NT architecture you don't like? If not, then you shouldn't be advocating a switch that you don't know anything about.
@matt merritt
I agree with you 100%. However, my girlfriend would not. She doesn't know x86 from G4, as a matter of fact she probably would had went out and bought Snow Leopard, and wondered why it didn't work. Her reasoning for getting a Mac was the higher security than XP, and the "just works" quality that Apple advertises. Should she had been a little more informed? Yes. But she's an average user. She sees a new Mac OS, and goes for it. If I weren't around, she probably wouldn't even know that Snow Leopard wouldn't work on PPC, or that she even HAD a PPC as opposed to Intel.
Not meaning to be anti this or pro that everyone, geez, cut with that. Matt that's not directed towards you or anything, but this fanboy BS has got to go.
time for her to get a new laptop.
progression of apple desktop processors
G4->Dual G4->G5 -> Dual G5 ->Dual Core G5 -> Quad Xeon
progression of apple laptop processors
G4->Core Duo
Missing some guts out of the middle there.
oh yeah, she can get $500-$600 on ebay for it right now.
She can pick up a refurb
Refurbished MacBook Pro, 15-inch Glossy Display, 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
15.4-inch glossy widescreen display
1GB memory
120GB hard drive
6x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB of GDDR3 memory
Built-in iSight camera
for $1299
That will get her in the game. So it is essentailly a 7-800 dollar investment. -$129 she was gonna spend on snow leopard and $50 for selling her leopard disc on ebay. It is closer to $500 more than she wanted to pay, for a lot faster computer.
that G4 is so out of date it isnt even funny and it still sells for $600 on ebay. That is what you get with an apple product that never goes mentioned. Anyways it is a far cry from the $2500 you had claimed.
Isn't Redmond already a generation behind here?
Not sure I agree with the nobody wants to be second part in the article. Sometimes companies pounce on being second just so they know what cards the other side is holding and how they can steer their marketing to combat it.
I'm a troll
Thats not the real iEye
Don't listen to iEye guys. He's such a troll.
As a Windows owner - I question. What happens when it goes to 11?
With any luck it will finally put an end to people calling it "Oh Es Ex"...
My understanding of what's going on is that Snow Leopard is an incremental upgrade to Leopard. There aren't going to be any major leaps in features, etc. I mean it only makes sense from the name they've given it, but I thought I read somewhere that the main difference is that it's going to finally exclude all of out PowerPC Mac brethren.
Well, fundamentally the core of the OS is being replaced. Contrary to comments that suggest that Snow Leopard is going to be minor, this is a pretty significant change. However, because the changes are below the surface I'm not sure how they are going to be able to sell this one. Bar charts of benchmarks hardly make for the most compelling marketing materials...
Anyone who didn't see this coming is an idiot. Apple is going to release the Core i7 iMac and tout it's GrandCentral technology shipping with Snow Leopard.... all of this timing is too perfect to ignore.
I could easily see Apple refreshing their entire desktop line during Macworld... The Mini is probably going to be the most interesting product to watch... will they roll it into Apple TV or will they roll it down the better performance hill...
With all that being said, there are about 5 features that are real end-user features being added to Snow Leopard... one of the biggest MS has had for years... Exchange.
I can just imagine dictator-for-life jobs blowing a few veins when he saw this. Visionary or not, the guy is a control freak.
@Level5
Further - http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro
Click the date that she bought her laptop and look what was there 2 months later at MWSF or WWDC -- whatever was in Jan 06.
Well... it's never been about the OS, but the apps you can run on it.
Just look at those bi-monthly releases of Linux distros, still, do they compete? I think not...
Just wondering what are they going to use once they run out of all cats?
The smart money is probably dogs but I fancy an outside bet on squirrels...
that won't happen anytime soon
Who cares. I just sold my Macbook Pro and I couldn't be happier. Frack Apple and their "clean up the mess under the hood" OS release that is 10.6. Said mess is part of the reason I'm dumping Mac. Too little too late Apple. Take your form over function crap and shove it.
Can't wait for Snow Leopard's enhancements, but it's hard not to long for new features. Are we going to have to pay the same price for this as Leopard cost us? Will it be worth the upgrade or only worthwhile when buying a new Mac?
Yay Windows 7 FUD! I was afraid Microsoft was losing their touch. Does this mean Vista will be officially dead in 2Q '09? Why advertise it so much now?
I'm banking on Windows 7 rolling out in 2010 so they have time to copy what Apple's doing next.
Isn't Mac OS X long overdue for a major new version (11.0) instead of just a new sub-version (10.6)? If you look at the timetable, OS X 10.0 was released back in 2001 (few months before Windows XP, which is version 5.1); Windows Vista (6.0) was released barely six years later.
let me get this straight.... snow leopard us going to be a great upgrade and so is windows 7... and the real reason for that is exactly what people are complaining about.... they both have a better focus.... yes you probably want much more from an update but see what happens when an os gets too ambitious.. longhorn promised a lot and vista ended up being the biggest disappointment in MS history.... leopard promised its so called 300 features... and delivered a good os but it was far too buggy compared to other apple releases....
i dont know how many of you know about the snow leopard beta tests but let me tell you that even in its beta stage which was tested in july or something... snow leopard runs way faster than leopard on the same machine. the installation took like 13 minutes compared to all other os's that take at least an hour. and the fact that they are taking their time this time (its been a while since leopard came out) this release shouldn't have too many bugs...
don't know much about win7 so wont comment...
Yes, the race to be #1 in the O.S. wars in on. But perhaps ya should remember that Redmond STEALS features & incorporates those designs into theirs. That being not a single original idea they can come up with, let Apple wait & trounce M$ with an O.S. that boasts features far beyond Windoze7. Vista has been a dog, a horrid cancer sore on Bill G's butt & he will happily exchange Win6 for Win7 as soon as possible. Let Apple wait, then pounce to devour the wretched mongrel O.S. that is Windoze.