To anyone even remotely familiar with Nokia's history, this
tidbit won't come as
a surprise at all. In fact, we've been hearing "Linux" and "Nokia" in the same sentence
for years. At Nokia World in Barcelona -- the same place where the almighty
N97 (pictured) was unveiled -- Ukko Lappalainen, vice president at Nokia's markets unit, informed
Reuters that "in the longer perspective, Linux will become a serious alternative for our high-end phones." Potentially more interesting was his followup line: "I don't see anything in Android which would make it better than Linux
maemo." Quite frankly, we'd be entirely more interested if this was some revolutionary epiphany, but it's basically just more of the same song and dance. Now, if an N98 pops out next month with a freakishly awesome and nimble mobile variant of Ubuntu, well -- that's a horse of a different color.
[Via
LinuxDevices]
posted Dec 3rd 2008 3:29AM
I hope this baby can run linux like the Nokia N810
The iPhone runs linux, and it is 2 years old, and to add to the bag of hurt this Nokia has not even been released yet!
Well at least now we know what the iPhone looks like with a QWERTY keyboard.
@iEye: I used to think that you were a typical fanboy but now I'm beginning to think that you might be an anti-Apple mole. Not even the most devoted fanboy would say the things you say.
iEye, I love you man, I laughed out loud again, for real and no pun intended. :)
Sorry to reply to the first post, but is there any chance this thing ends up on Verizon? I know that it's a GSM phone, which leads one to believe that it'll only be on AT&T (not that I can imagine Apple would want the N97 too close to the iPhone) or T-Mobile. Is it easy to switch a phone out to suit a provider's network?
Goodbye Symbian. ;_;
Looks like Nokia bought it to kill it.
Or maybe create some sort of Symbian-Linux hybrid.
It would be a crime against humanity if this phone ends up in verizon. Raped and stripped of all its pride and sold to the masses with a sub par feature set and a degraded OS.
- Verizon Your World Crippled
This phone is meant to be unlocked in all of its glory so that you can harness the full power of S60 5th edition.
My question is... have they brought back the SIP stack?
Wow. If that is not a naked chalange to cram Android in this thing, I don't know what is.
@iEye
No the iPhone runs Mac OS X, which is based on BSD.
Sounds cool, but Ukko Lappalainen is the going on my list of WTF names. lol
You have a list of WTF names?
no I just made that up, lol.........still you never know. ;-)
I know a chick called Santa Kraus
That gets me everytime...
How bout me?
ha ha ha...esat, you think aldeezy is a girl?
Whos the girl in your icon AlDeezy?
There was a kid in my HS named Joey Butram, but he said it was pronounced "Boot-rom" haha we still called him Joey Buttram!
we had a student come in from japan last year and we had to call her up to the office...her name was (not sure if im spelling it correctly) bich dong long (pronounced correctly is sounded like bitch)------i swear to you i dont think i have ever seen so many people laughing that hard at one time before.
Well, finally some hope for mobile Linux even when other mobiles like Motorola dropped linux..
Motorola only dropped its obsolete linux platform for firstly, LiMO then to Android.
Both are Linux!
yep, but android is more of a Java phone with linux kernel. we don't have access to any C/C++ SDK or toolchain..
Doesn't mean it's not Linux...
The only thing is that current processors (at least the one in the N810) make running Maemo *painful.*
I wouldn't say it's painfully slow on the N810, but yeah it's slow enough to make you irritated some times.
Thought next tablet will have OMAP3, confirmed from Nokia in the Maemo summit this year and as someone from Nokia said tablets are working as testing ground for Nokia when N810 was released(more clear now when they will be releasing Maemo phones at some point) so i would say that the Maemo phone will have OMAP 3 too.
FUGLY, linux ooh dear that like prehistoric, The pain of using a phona and see in linux, people think off the children they want windows mobile.
Well looks like your writing is nowhere close to professional.. had to read that a couple times to get anywhere close to understanding what you mean..
In what way is Linux prehistoric?
When was windows last fully updated?
Because Ubuntu gets an overhaul every six months.
History lesson
Windows - first released 1985
Linux OS - first developed 1989 (effectively)
Mr Professional, you wern't a Chartered Surveyor where you?
If you were it would be more like Mr looking for a job, will clean toilets for cash.
People, before you reply to this lame person, I have one request:
Do not reply to his comments. Leave him wondering alone, low rank him (or high rank him), then go on with reading other people's comments.
Do not reply after reading this.
Well still linux looks prehistoric, and I am a fully qualified professional.
and no Saad Rabia your comments lame, your an embarrassment at commenting
@Oli D:
Erh... are you comparing Window 1 to Windows Vista? There is absolutely no resemblance core vise. There has been several major core rewrites (yes from scratch) and different branches of Windows since the beginning. Look it up on Wikipedia.
I agree though that Linux isn't prehistoric, even though some of the grapical interfaces for Linux may appear so.
On topic:
Maybe this could give Nokias a much needed performance boost. My N95 isn't exactly performing smoothly.
fat ulgy hairy troll spotted.
http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/
I was making a point...
Reflecting now it could have been better tuned but i think i got the message across.
Lets just end this issue with "Well Bill Gates stole the GUI from Apple remember?"
'i' remember
microsoft windows is an apple knock off in so many ways, thats why osx is heaven
@ Fusion Fuzo 05 - Mr Professional
Where did you learn grammar, in Redmomd?
OSX is heaven, i considered having it installed into my brain once, but it wouldn't accept my BIOS...
I truly hope that iEye, Clak and Fusion are the same person with three seperate accounts. That way my faith in mankind can be restored slightly, knowing that the idiots are not multiplying...
Then again, I think they are all seperate people, as iEye sometimes does come out with good points believe it or not, on those rare ocassions he doesn't mention anything iphone related...
@Oli D
"Well Bill Gates stole the GUI from Apple remember?"
No. Apple and Microsoft stole the idea from Xerox.
Xerox... isn't that a paper company?
NEVER I would NEVER use apple product's over windows equivalents, In the software world xp and windows mobile are king. IPhone has to many restrictions for me, my HP iPaq phone has better build quality
Professional
Fusion Fuzo
@Oli D
Xerox created the first ever window based graphical interface for the Xerox Alto desktop computer in 1973. It was very similar to the first Windows and Apple interfaces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star#The_Xerox_Alto
Where did we mention Iphone?
I'll grant you that XP is a decent platform
I find windows mobile horrible to use personally, it drove me mad within 2 days.
Now on to sytnax.
"NEVER I would NEVER"
Reminiscent of the cockney phrase "I ain't done nothing" I'm afraid this means the opposite of what you intended.
What you have effectively said is, i would never, not choose apple products over Windows.
Double negative - i would choose apple products over windows.
I don't mean to be a bitch, but this is more entertaining than doing my essay on attitudes towards women in Othello...
Professional
Oli Dipple
@Troels, lighten up! It was a joke.
I was trying to ruffle some feathers.
Your really on my case this morning though arn't you?
I feel like Clare Bennet being pursued by Sylar in series 1!
(inappropriate heroes reference)
@Oli D
No, I just hate random MS bashing. Makes no difference who writes it.
And I took it as your final point.
Oli D, Esat Dedezade accused me of being an Iphone fanboy, My phone runs windows mobile
Hahaha, you people are heavenly funny; almost made my day. :)
what else can we do on a Wednesday morning? Get a job!?
Oh...
Whats the number for Jobcentreplus?
Ah dammit, the lines are all blocked up by bankers...
@Oli D
Let's find a solution to the crisis...
Just a quick question. Can ubuntu be upgraded from the disc?
Back on topic. It would be great having a choice of linux or s60 on nokia phones. They have a diverse range,excellent hardware, good pricing with respective build qualities. If they do this, they'll totally pwn every other phone. Its a good move.
> It would be great having a choice of linux or s60 on nokia phones.
Does it really matter what OS it runs? As long as you can have all apps you need, the OS shouldn't be important to end user. In the case Linux is really internal thing of celco vendors.
I'm kind of against even calling the Linux on mobiles "Linux," since it is so heavily customized that there is really little of common between normal embedded system and mobile phones. Oh! - busybox could be the same! As was mentioned many times, OS on mobile phone is about 20% of whole firmware. Rest are custom applications: different networks support, special handling of operator network setups, etc.
P.S. "Just a quick question. Can ubuntu be upgraded from the disc?" Not sure, but since it is Debian and Debian can be upgraded completely from CD/DVD media, then Ubuntu should be too. Check that from official documentation: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-basico.en.html#s-cdrom In older times it worked for sure and Debian releases are specifically tested to be upgradable without network. At least once before I heard that Ubuntu is tested in the same way.
@Ihar `Philips` Filipau :
Yes agreed but the thing is : the ability to use theses apps or not is mainly a consequence of which OS it runs.
And although there might be little in common between a desktop and a mobile version of Linux, this will change eventually, and for the best.
Anyhow I suppose if we focus on OSs it's mainly because that's the only information we get from engadget.
How am I supposed to know I'm going be able to use my favourite apps on a new mobile phone, if engadget doesn't tell me the OS it runs ?
@Ihar:
No, Linux is the one component that's largely the _same_ across desktop, embedded, and mobile systems.
What you're thinking of are the various other components of an OS, and particularly high-level stacks like X and GNOME/KDE, which are part of a typical Linux-based distribution, but are not part of Linux, nor even Linux-specific. They run on a UNIX system, and don't care what kernel is used.
If you want to avoid calling them the same, then come up with terms that suit, rather than appropriating one existing (and trademarked, BTW) term to mean something else.
Nokia is pretty much alone with Maemo. Big chunk of developers have moved for Android or making iPhone apps. Anyway, some light in the tunnel to get rid-off that Symbian.
Did you see that teaser a while back? With the phones you put round your wrist and use grass to create energy?
That, was the end of Nokia in my eyes.
I'll believe it when I see it. Almost every mobile company talks about Linux from time to time, but who here is actually running Linux on their phone?
Still I hope they do it. Anything's better than Symbian.
Symbian works and it is quite stable, which is kinda important for a phone.
"who here is actually running Linux on their phone?"
All the owners of the G1?
"'Android' is a software platform and operating system for mobile devices, based on the Linux kernel"
Straight from Wikipedia.
Nokia? are they still kicking around?
I recommend everyone to not comment on this idiot's post and just low rank him straight away.
@Hamza Because you have a Nokia?
Because he's just a troll, and asking if Nokia are still kicking around with them having something like 40% of the smartphone market is just plain idiotic.
a fair response.
Maemo is a great idea that has been jerked around by Nokia for years without leadership or the tools to really unlock the devices potential. What does android have the Maemo doesn't..... many things. First they have a sensible, cross-platform development environment. The recent competition produced in months a glut of high quality, end users, applications most of which show more attention to detail than 90% of Maemo applications.
Nokia has poured hundreds of thousands of man-hours into Maemo as well as related development and they still don't get it. They do things like beg their users for feedback but then either remain silent on bugs or close them without resolution ( hello GPS bug ), each new firmware/SSO is a crapshoot with many users needing to reinstall their device from scratch or deal with some new, obscure, bug ( random battery draining events ), and of course there are developers begging for documentation or open source access to modify things like wifi that keep getting shot down ( no skyhook because they refuse to release the d-bus API ).
So Nokia can scratch it's head in amazement as Maemo, once again, gets passed over but the result will come as no surprise to me.
If you've been following Nokia (and Trolltech), you'll see where this is going. If you haven't, and you're interested:
"In June 2008 Nokia acquired Trolltech ASA to enable the acceleration of their cross-platform software strategy for mobile devices and desktop applications, and to develop its Internet services business. On September 29, 2008 Nokia renamed Trolltech to Qt Software."
You want to see why?
http://trolltech.com/products/device-creation/reference-designs/touchscreen-mobile-phone
The "Neo" platform is way ahead of "Android", and this is what I'd expect to see their Linux phone based on (they did pay 100million Euros or so for Trolltech, so they must have had something big in mind!). I would also expect a port of Qt to Symbian. Qt is already available on OS X, Windows, Linux & Windows CE. A mobile phone platform built on Qt can switch the underlying OS relatively simply...
My 0.02...
They will just buy it, try to integrate it and fuck it up.
They fucked up maemo already, they have a gazillion of incompatible always-in-beta apps and technologies, so I don't see a reason they would do good this time.
So, he's from marketing. "I don't see anything in Android which would make it better than Linux maemo."
As a proud owner of N800 tablet with much-hyped-by-Nokia maemo Linux, I can say, that this is totally wrong.
Maemo is a OS wich is not developed properly, has no support, and almost no applications. Software catalogue contains fugly ports of Linux apps, with no optimization for small screen / pen input. N800/N810 are just geek toys, not proper consumer devices. No PIM. No PC Suite-like app. And they are painfully slow (still usable although).
Yet Nokia tries to spread Maemo BS around. Maemo is fucked up, get over it for Pete's sake! Either develop Symbian or shift to Android. Or invest at least several millions in getting Maemo done.
"much-hyped-by-Nokia maemo Linux" - much hyped? You gotta be kidding me. Nokia hasn't done a single tiny bit of advertising for any Maemo device, so how exactly did they hype it? Please elaborate...
"Maemo is a OS wich is not developed properly" - what is that supposed to mean?
"has no support" - um, Nokia constantly releases new versions, and small updates for it. Given how much of a niche product the internet tablets were up to now, what exactly do you expect? They are and have been experimental devices up to now, so...
"and almost no applications." - I disagree. Given how small the community is compared to other platforms, there are a lot of very nice applications like Canola, Maemo Mapper or liqbase already available for it, and if they use Maemo on more mass-market devices like phones, this is going to become even better, fast. So what exactly are you complaining about there?
"N800/N810 are just geek toys, not proper consumer devices." - and Nokia's marketing (or the lack of it, actually) reflects that. And this is about to change. So what are you complaining about?
"No PC Suite-like app." - and why would that be needed, again?
"Yet Nokia tries to spread Maemo BS around. Maemo is fucked up, get over it for Pete's sake!" - I think you really need to go outside once in a while and catch a breath of fresh air...might help with all that unnecessary bitching and whining...
> "much-hyped-by-Nokia maemo Linux" - much hyped? You gotta be kidding me. Nokia hasn't done a single tiny bit of advertising for any Maemo device, so how exactly did they hype it? Please elaborate...
I've seen lots of hype around N8x0 and new and New and Exciting concept of Internet Tablets with New and Exciting Maemo OS. Remember, USA is not the only country in the world, m'kay? :)
> "Maemo is a OS wich is not developed properly" - what is that supposed to mean?
Decent PIM? Established roadmap with new features? Less bugs?
To me it looks like Nokia tried to develop Maemo as consumer OS, failed and just let it hang there.
> "has no support" - um, Nokia constantly releases new versions, and small updates for it. Given how much of a niche product the internet tablets were up to now, what exactly do you expect? They are and have been experimental devices up to now, so...
If they are "experimental devices", I find it quite funny that Nokia charged me 500 bucks for one, and marketed it as an "ultimate Internet Tablet yada-yada". I bought it to use as a PDA (PIM, some documents), hoping that they will go PDA way - no luck. Had to give to me wife for eBook reading.
> "and almost no applications." - I disagree. Given how small the community is compared to other platforms, there are a lot of very nice applications like Canola, Maemo Mapper or liqbase already available for it, and if they use Maemo on more mass-market devices like phones, this is going to become even better, fast. So what exactly are you complaining about there?
I'm not talking about community apps, I'm talking about built-in. I use Nokia E90 Communicator as phone and find that they've done a really good job in developing standard apps in Symbian (like PIM suite, email clients, etc.). Nothing like that in maemo. And community PIM apps suck.
Problem with Maemo apps is that they are always in beta, UI is not well designed and they have too many options to set instead of just working.
> "N800/N810 are just geek toys, not proper consumer devices." - and Nokia's marketing (or the lack of it, actually) reflects that. And this is about to change. So what are you complaining about?
Don't think that it will change, really. Nokia suck at software development. They make nice hardware though.
> "No PC Suite-like app." - and why would that be needed, again?
Desktop sync and management. As it is in, for example, Symbian.
> "Yet Nokia tries to spread Maemo BS around. Maemo is fucked up, get over it for Pete's sake!" - I think you really need to go outside once in a while and catch a breath of fresh air...might help with all that unnecessary bitching and whining...
I might've overreacted here, that's true. Just got wound up by markedroid bullshit.
I upgrade my N800 when updates come out (and they even do OTA update now), but it does not look like they're really trying to improve things, just fix some bug here and there. Feature-wise it's still like two years ago, when I bought it.
At least if they would release Maemo phone they would have something done already. I mean if they would release maemo based phone the userbase would automatically 5x compared to tablets that indeed are bit of a geek toy and getting more support for it then.
Will see how that next tablet with OMAP 3 goes and what direction Nokia is taking Maemo with it.
The Nokia N800 and N810 tablets are what they are. Anyone expecting to use them as intended will be delighted. Anyone expecting PIM apps will be disappointed. The applications that come with the current version of Maemo are OK. They aren't great but they aren't trash, either. You can replace them with better applications if you want to.
No, I just hate random MS bashing. Makes no difference who writes it.
Nokia ought to roll out sister models of the N97 and 5800 Express Music with Maemo installed. Then you could decide which way to go.
The iPhone does NOT based on Linux. It's a cut down version of OSX which is based on Unix. Apple would NEVER run any software that it didn't have 100% control over it (e.g. they never will use open source).
hmm, linux...reminds me of my good pal the rokr e6,
when motorola decides to redo with a larger screen
and redesign the GUI, then will i start taking these
devices seriously.
hmm, linux...reminds me of my good pal the rokr e6,
when motorola decides to redo with a larger screen
and redesign the GUI, then will i start taking these
devices seriously.
Jesus Christ, Maemo? I've got an N800 and I can tell you that Maemo SUCKS compared to Android. Horrible horrible user experience. (Yes I'm talking about OS2008, too.) The real problem is installing applications. The whole repository thing is a pain in the butt, and problem resolution (i.e. a repository is down) is very poorly handled. It still feels not ready for primetime, and maemo's been around for years now. You really have to be a geek get into their tablets, and that just won't fly with a phone.
Nokia suffers from pride. They're the "leader" in the space because up until now no one had made anything better), But they assume it's because they have the best technology and design. Well, wake up, Nokia, because nearly everyone who switches to Android or iPhone or even Blackberry never looks back to S60.
I have a valid question...
Why do you think this is going to sell better than the iPhone?
Because it's a top end Nokia N-Series?