CBC / Radio Canada exposé finds Tasers are unreliable killjoys
By Laura June 
posted Dec 5th 2008 12:59PM
posted Dec 5th 2008 12:59PM
The CBC and Radio Canada have run a bunch of Taser tests recently, and the results aren't likely to reassure anyone. US-based testing lab National Technical Systems pulled 41 X26 units out of 7 random police stations across the nation, and fired each at least six times. What happened? Well, four of them threw off a current "significantly" higher than a stun gun is supposed to, including some that were 50 percent higher than normal, while three didn't fire at all. All the faulty units were manufactured pre-2005, but the company that makes them (which makes almost all US police employed stun guns), couldn't provide someone for the CBC to interview, so no one seems to be sure of the cause. Of course, it goes a long way toward explaining why so many people need to head to the hospital after getting a taste of the taser. Not cool guys, not cool. [Thanks, Tony A.]
Shocking
zing
Don't tase me bro!
Looks like the cops are better off making their own tasers out of disposable camera
or a knockoff DS
Don't tase me bro!
Electrifying.
no "Don't tase me, bro."
please.
Too late. You already did...
thus, the quandry. I'll be the goat for this post.
Someone Tase him for saying that :)
Don't you ever notice that cops always say "Im gonna tase you" at least like 4 times before they actually do it? People just need to stop acting so dumb, its their own fault their getting tased.
Agreed, if people just did what they were supposed to they wouldn't be needed.
I couldn't understand what she was saying. I though she said "I'm going to tease you"
Some people's attitudes amaze me..
Faar: Anyway, small comfort is in case you're ever tased: chances are very high you were being obstructive and thus deserved it, and better a taser in that case than a bullet from a handgun, eh?
So, if you happen to be accidentally tazed and perhaps permanently injured, it's just an anomaly and should be ignored?
JedixJarf: No, they do not. Which particular YouTube video are you referring to?
With all due respect to the hard work of police work, it is not even in the top ten most dangerous jobs. I'm not saying cops should take chances, but there is plenty of evidence of lazy or even malicious police, and the whole taser -industry- doesn't seem to be interested in addressing these issues.
In all fairness, this CBC review is largely in response to one particular taser-induced death, in which a Polish gentleman arrived at a Canadian airport, became confused when his family member didn't arrive to meet him, and after hours of confusion and frustration (due to a significant language barrier) started to get a bit nutty.
Maybe he could have stayed calm, but whether or not he did, none of his actions could have justified what happened next. Police arrived, screamed at him (in english only of course) to calm down, then fired a Taser...all within 90 second of arriving on the scene.
So in truth, I agree with you...until you start to see misuse of the tool, such as becoming more and more common in Canada, the US, and around the world.
that is complete BS what JedixJarf said.. The Indianapolis Police Department has placed some of the highest orders on tasers in the country.. they are the most crooked police officers I have seen. I live here and will assure you.. I was tasered last month 3 times while I was already handcuffed behind my back laying on my stomach.. barely 1 warning and the police report says I was tasered once.. There was no resistance by me, and it was a non violent crime I committed, police just displaying their power. Have you ever heard of Excessive Force? it is a major problem in this country.. officers on an ego trip. I hope you all do some more research... or wait to experience it yourself..
@JedixJarf: "Don't you ever notice..."...wtf?...How many times you been tased by the cops to form that opinion?
Never been to Chicago, eh?
I'm with Anthony. This year alone in Chicago, we've had:
Cop beats the @#$@ out of a female bartender who cuts him off after he drank too much. The same cop gets department escort to court and his fellow cops try and intimidate the witness into not testifying.
Group of off duty cops start fight and then after 911 is called, the cops coming on the scene refuse to intervene.
Drew Peterson. I probably shouldn't have to elaborate on that one. That's the definition of Chicago area corruption.
Whole slew of unprovoked incidents where cops shot unarmed people.
Fore example: http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/killedoncamera/
Here's a fun article from a few days ago even...
15 Cops Get Caught in FBI Sting
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-harvey-copsdec03,0,4312856.story
...and many more.
My first roomate in the army was from NY and from what I hear, it's not much better there.
By the way, the Tribune just did an article on crooked cops. Supposedly, the police chief has no power to fire a cop. There's a civilian board that does it and only 21 cops were fired since 2003. The Sun Times did a huge article on it.
I don't even trust the Chicago cops with rubber Nerf bats let alone guns and tasers...
I'm sorry, but you guys that are getting harassed or messed with the cops, need to stay the hell out of trouble. I'm from chicago and I can't tell you how many times I have been pulled over, or messed with by the cops. Most of the time I was minding my own business. Wrong place wrong time, but I treated them with respect and agreed to everything they asked because i have nothing to hide. Want to search my car?? Go ahead, I dont have anything to hide. Why do you guys feel the need to be a smart ass with the cops? Just shut up, answer the questions, comply with what they ask and they will let you be on your merry way. If you are not guilty of anything, then what are you worried about??? Some of you guys just ask to get messed with by the cops. Go ahead provoke them more. Then you wonder why you get messed with.
"Want to search my car?? Go ahead, I dont have anything to hide."
I was with you until you showed that you're a sniveling coward who doesn't understand his rights.
Fuck police state bullshit.
Anthony @ Dec 5th 2008 2:04PM
"There was no resistance by me, and it was a non violent crime I committed, police just displaying their power. Have you ever heard of Excessive Force? "
WTF, idiot ... have you ever head of NOT COMMITTING A CRIME?!?!?!
@Huh
"JedixJarf: No, they do not. Which particular YouTube video are you referring to?"
Um, yes we do.
People confuse the Taser as being a replacement for lethal force. It is not. There are SOME instances where a second officer might be able to deploy a less lethal solution like the Taser before lethal force had to be used (a person with a knife for example). The Taser is simply another less leathal force option. Period. What people like you seem to either be unaware of or uninterested in is the fact that with the addition of the Taser to the tools of law enforcement, the overall amount of injuries and deaths to suspects and officers has dropped precipitously at agencies where the Taser is employed.
Did you know that every single other method of apprehending a uncooperative suspect has a higher injury and death rate than the Taser? That includes the baton, pepper spray, simple hands on fight, bean bag, etc.
No one really cares about the real numbers apparently. Every completely unscientific "study" performed by news organizations attempting to smear the Taser have been complete nonsense. There was one a while back from Canada I believe where they concluded the Taser was dangerous because of how many suspects were treated medically. Every single agency I am aware of has department policy that mandates all tased suspects be medically cleared prior to being booked rendering that argument moot.
The fact remains the Taser has saved countless lives (suspects as well as innocent bystanders and Officers) and reduced the number of legitimate medical injuries. I've been tased. My whole class was tased. Guess what? It wasn't a big deal. No one was injured in the least. Everyone laughed about it afterwards over a beer.
I really wish people would look at the whole picture and stop looking for reasons to rag on law enforcement for trying to do a deceivingly difficult job they would not or could not do themselves. I know a lot of people seem to think it's all about walking around and exercising some kind of power over people for fun but I can assure you that simply isn't so.
Cops need to be trained to avoid going on a power trip, and to defuse situations rather than what they are trained to do now which seems to be "repeat idiotic sounding phrases then freak out when things don't go your way". It's a tough job, I understand. But the training these guys receive seems to be the core of the problem.
Tasers make things worse because you can shoot somebody with no consequences. I am hoping for some good old-fashioned class action lawsuit to remove these from the streets.
@ Larry:
your missing the point. its okay though, I wasn't expecting anyone to sympathize with me. I'm just sharing my experience of being drunk in public, then being treated like I was carrying a grenade around the street.
Keith:
It's called being an American. You don't know your Bill of Rights, do you? Fourth Ammendment states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable SEARCHES and seizures shall not be violated. I enlisted in the army and fought for my freedoms and I'll be damned if I'll give those up.
If you want to go live in a place like China where you don't have the option to deny a police search (without probably cause or a warrant), that's your prerogative. Part of the duty of being an American citizen is knowing what your rights are and NOT letting them be taken away from you under all costs. (that's part of the reason why the 2nd Ammendment exists...you know: well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state and the right to bear arms)
Do you know how many people died for those rights that you have? It's beyond insulting to all those who've given the ultimate sacrifice that you'd want everyone to blindly give up their rights.
@PynkFloydd
"It's called being an American. You don't know your Bill of Rights, do you? Fourth Ammendment states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable SEARCHES and seizures shall not be violated. I enlisted in the army and fought for my freedoms and I'll be damned if I'll give those up."
You don't have to lay into him. He didn't give up any of his rights. You forgot one of the 3 key justifications for a search: Consent. He simply said "Sure" after being asked.
So, Blues, you're a police officer, and here you are making the single most critical mistake when it comes to Tasers. Despite the manufacturers and supporters continually saying that police officers are "trained" in Taser use, you demonstrate that that training is either non-existent or ineffective.
You say, "People confuse the Taser as being a replacement for lethal force. It is not." and I am just amazed at that. That is PRECISELY what the Taser is supposed to be - a replacement to be used in situations where lethal force would otherwise be used.
It is NOT a compliance tool - go on, read up on it, don't just rely on what you and your "classmates" think. Go and read up and just how the Taser has been misused as a compliance tool. How about that woman, behind the wheel of her car, who was Tasered because she didn't take her hands off the wheel? Guess what - after she was Tasered, the officer again demanded she take her hands off the wheel. But she couldn't, now - she had been Tasered and so was unable to move her arms. So the cop Tasered her again. How about any of the dozens and dozens of similar cases, many of which are referenced by others in this comment thread?
You try and tell us that Tasers are "safer" than all other means of non-lethal force, and yet, you also try to mislead us by stating that studies which find Tasers are unsafe only say that because Police policy requires all Tasered subjects to be medically cleared. Bullshit. Show me any study which has made that error - the error of saying that Tasers are unsafe because of mandatory medical checks. I don't believe you about that, I can find no evidence to support that theory, and so I cannot believe your assessment of Taser safety ... you obviously think they are safe because you are unfairly ignoring the studies which show they are unsafe.
I fully support the use of Tasers in situations where lethal force would otherwise have to be used - when a clearly threatening subject is clearly threatening the health of either other people or police officers. In those cases, I have no objection to their use and I concur with you that using a Taser then, will and does reduce injury numbers to police and the public.
But it remains true that most Taser use is not justifiable, it is used as either a compliance tool or thought of as a way of making a police officer's life easier by taking down an un-co-operative (not threatening, merely un-co-operative - very different) person. Given that Tasers are not 100% non-lethal it is unacceptable for them to be used in such cases. You don't shoot people because they are un-co-operative, you don't shoot people to enforce compliance, and you shouldn't Taser them either.
It is so worrying to hear a police officer making such critical mistakes about Tasers and their intended use.
BluesK1d:
That's what they told you in the academy or some BS. It's a lie. It's also a lie cops use every single day on the streets that makes them feel better about themselves at the end of the day. Giving consent (implied or otherwise) is giving up your rights. That's what the Miranda Warning/Rights are based on. It's a warning to ignorant people. Unfortunately, there aren't more.
This is what the Bill of Rights says verbatim:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/
What that means is: Under no circumstances should someone or their stuff be searched unless there is warrant and probable cause and even then, the warrant can't be vague. ...now, if someone gives up their rights, they can also be searched.
Under no circumstances should an American EVER give up their rights.
"but the company that makes them (which makes almost all US police employed stun guns), couldn't provide someone for the CBC to interview"
But of course. Very typical.
Must have been FAR and they thought someone was calling to check on rebate status.
even with those odds, if it came down to being shot with this or a 9mm, I'd pick this any day of the week.
That being said, I'm sure most police use decent discretion when using these. In the cases where people die from having these things used on them, I think we'd find either that a cop would be justified in using a real gun on the suspect or that the cop shouldnt have even used a baton.
YES! I also would prefer being painfully shocked to death for several minutes to a 3 round burst, central mass.
yes, because being shot with a gun completely painless. the most humane way to die.
Well, you only mentioned two in your comparison. I was just staying on topic.
Now think of this, Taers are being used in US Schools EVERYDAY on students.
Seriously, how smart is that?
Definitely not as smart as proof reading.
"Of course, it goes a long way toward explaining why so many people need to head to the hospital after getting a taste of the taser. Not cool guys, not cool."
4 out of 41 - less than a tenth of those particular units tested, from 7 out of how many cop stations are there in the country - is supposed to say what exactly about a third of those tased needing to seek medical attention? You really can't infer anything of the sort from such a tiny fraction of the total. Here, let me offer a similarly speculative but perhaps more plausible explanation: person is tased, seizes up and falls on his head and starts bleeding. Is taken to hospital for stitches.
Anyway, small comfort is in case you're ever tased: chances are very high you were being obstructive and thus deserved it, and better a taser in that case than a bullet from a handgun, eh? So what is supposed to be uncool, really? :P
I would agree that getting shot is going to lead to a much higher rate of 'ouchies' than getting tased.
The point is, it's not a substitute for good police work. They're dangerous and should be treated as such. They are used all to frequently to control subjects that can be subdued by other means.
Some people in this comment section seriously need to read the Bill of Rights.
Those "other means" have a statistically far higher death and injury rate than the Taser. I know. Shocking. You won't see that on any blogs or news report though.
I'm fairly certain that if you actually *looked* at the cases of people being seriously injured from a taser shot, you'd find most of them had compromised systems already due to drugs or other conditions.
I personally am not worried about Taser safety, but am concerned about the ones that didn't fire. Regardless, the Taser isn't a weapon to be used in a life-threatening situation (there's another weapon on the officer's belt or patrol car trunk for that), but nonetheless, every essentially tool should always work.
I wonder how old those cartridges were? 2005, or newer? I think that may have to do with it.
I'm not a LEO or Taser rep but I like the idea and don't think it should die. It also gives people who aren't comfortable to get trained, proficient, and safe (and also licensed if applicable) with a firearm to carry another option, although in a real situation a Taser is a poor substitute. Regardless, at least its better than nothing and somewhat better than mace/OC spray.
better than an overclocked mac? Apple hater!!!!!!!!!!
It is simply not true that all the people who have died from tasers had a preexisting condition. Large electric shocks, especially when administered to particular parts of the body, have the very serious threat of disrupting heart rhymes. In fact, almost all people who are tased have some magnitude of heart rhythm malfunction. Sometimes these can last for quite a few minutes after being tased, and thus leading to a heart attack. This is the exact same way electricity kills you in a lightning strike or from a household socket. The higher the current and voltage, the most likely you are to have a heart attack and die. So, some if a taser hits a sensitive area, or malfunctions and gives a higher voltage than designed, this significantly increases the chance of death.
I find it most baffling that these devices were accepted for human use before any of these independent tests were completed. That's like a drug company saying "Hey, we just invented a drug that kills HIV", then without any further testing, give it to everybody and then a couple years later they notice that some people are dying from the drug and THEN studies are done to test if the drug is safe. It just doesn't make sense.
@schmitty338
"In fact, almost all people who are tased have some magnitude of heart rhythm malfunction. Sometimes these can last for quite a few minutes after being tased, and thus leading to a heart attack."
Please stop posting on the internet. I know the anonymous nature makes it very tempting to just make things up and state them as fact but you are only spreading misinformation that others will believe and, in effect, making everyone a little dumber. This is in no way true.
I'd still take a taser to the gut over a 9mm any day. As said, people who get tased are asking for it. I love to see it on COPS, just hope I get the pleasure of seeing it in person one day.
I'd prefer they baton you crippled enough to stop posting, forever.
Just my view.
Before feeling bad for all these poor "victims" of Tazers who have had to be hospitalized you should remember that most of them were Tazed instead of being shot with a real gun.
Better a tri to the hosptal to have your poopy underwear changed than a trip to the mourge, no?
False. In Canada, before the use of tazers, we didn't have cops shooting hundreds of people with guns per year.
If the cops at Vancouver airport didn't have tazers, they would not have shot Dziekanski with bullets.