TiVo Netflix hands-on

TiVo was nice enough to hit us with the Netflix-enabling Fall Service Update a little early, and the going's been pretty good -- this is probably our favorite Netflix streaming implementation yet. Although it's not as flashy of an experience as the Xbox 360's Netflix implementation, it's faster to start streaming, and to our eyes it looks a lot better -- the 360's output is really dark, while the TiVo looks bright and crisp. On top of that, we've never been able to get our 360 to hit more than two bars when playing HD-capable content, while the TiVo instantly spooled up and started streaming full-quality 720p video -- and it can drop back to SD during network slowdowns and then pop up to HD again, while the 360 is stuck at whatever res it started the movie at. We still wish Netflix's streaming selection was anywhere close to what a typical cable company has on demand, but that'll come with time -- for right now we're definitely impressed.

Gallery: TiVo Netflix hands-on

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[p.flynn2 @ Dec 8th 2008 12:16AM]

furst

[moo083 @ Dec 8th 2008 12:16AM]

SMACK!!!

Yay! I win the game of smack the idiot!

[Hashbrown Hunter @ Dec 8th 2008 3:00AM]

He even misspelled first. That's so fucking sad.

[p.flynn2 @ Dec 8th 2008 12:16AM]

no but seriously, this is just another example of tivo actually understanding what the consumer wants. why is it so hard to get things like this done? (thats rhetorical - i know why its so difficult)

[Jason Litka @ Dec 8th 2008 11:12AM]

If they understood what we really wanted then they would have set it up so that we could search for movies from the TiVo, not have to go and add them on a computer and then come over to watch them.

[J @ Dec 8th 2008 12:18AM]

I can hit full bars with the Xbox 360 every time. Come on, Engadget, get FiOS!

[Mark @ Dec 8th 2008 12:32AM]

Same here, FIOS FTW

[Patrick @ Dec 8th 2008 12:33AM]

Me too. Even with HD movies. Something must be wrong with their set up.

[Nilay Patel @ Dec 8th 2008 12:57AM]

My connection isn't a problem -- it's close to 10Mbps. HD streaming shouldn't be a problem at all, and isn't with other devices. It just doesn't go on my 360, for whatever reason.

[Einhanderkiller @ Dec 8th 2008 1:01AM]

Is FiOS available in the Bay Area?

[Darkest Daze @ Dec 8th 2008 1:13AM]

Come on, I have Comcast and I can get full bars on the 360. If your service is worse then mine, I seriously pity you.

[CaramelZappa @ Dec 8th 2008 1:15AM]

Last I checked they didn't have FIOS in the bay, or at least in the east bay where I'm located. We got AT&T U-Verse, and while my previous experiances with AT&T were horrible, I've been nothing but pleased with the new service.

[CaramelZappa @ Dec 8th 2008 1:17AM]

Nilay, maybe your router is blocking the ports xbox live uses? Maybe if you try port forwarding you'll have a better experience.

[Mics @ Dec 8th 2008 2:17AM]

I too get full bars every time on my Xbox Netflix. I have a 10mbps connection through Time Warner Cable/Road Runner. Both HD and SD content begin within 10 secs average.

[Barky @ Dec 8th 2008 7:48AM]

Netflix playback can slow down even if you have a very fast connection. The problem must be a Netflix server issue or a routing issue between your ISP and Netflix.

I have seen the Netflix PC player buffering like crazy on one dot of quality, when an online speed test shows my connection at 12mbps. It seems to happen more at night and weekends.

[Patrick @ Dec 8th 2008 7:50AM]

Nilay,

Maybe you should try to figure out why you are having such a problem with the 360 instead of making such a blanket statement in light of the fact most other people doesn't seem to have the problem. It makes you seem less credible.

[Nilay Patel @ Dec 8th 2008 10:17AM]

It's not a "blanket statement" because it's true -- my 360 is hardwired directly into my router on top of a ~10MBps connection, all the proper ports are open, and it can't stream in HD, while the TiVo can. I've screwed with it plenty, believe me.

As for the dark output, both boxes are plugged into my 50-inch Kuro, and the TiVo is noticeably brighter on A/B. I've got an older 360 that doesn't have HDMI out, so maybe that's the issue, but over component it's definitely so dark I have to jack the settings on the TV to enjoy the picture. Not so with the TiVo.

[Patrick @ Dec 11th 2008 7:54AM]

Well, there's obviously something wrong with your set-up because most others are not experiencing this problem. They way you wrote makes it seem like it's a universal problem. It's obviously not.

[iRobot @ Dec 15th 2008 6:41PM]

Oh please, FiOS is whacking off in the corner. They have NO idea what's going on. We'll all be a million years old, by the time Verizon FiOS gets they're sh_t together and does something use full. Like make it available for use. I've moved on.

[Timmay @ Dec 8th 2008 12:20AM]

I can hack the Tivo to use a generic SATA HDD to expand the space, but I cannot find where the NetFlix is in the menus for my life! Anyone help me here?

[MegaZone @ Dec 8th 2008 1:46AM]

You need to have the new software version 11.0 which started wide roll out last week. If you have it you have a Video On Demand item on your main menu, it is under there. But it was just turned on in the past hour or so, at least for me.

[birthday is 1990 @ Dec 8th 2008 12:20AM]

Actually, the Xbox 360 does change the resolution with network slowdowns. I haven't had any trouble with hi-def and I don't have anything like FiOS. My color has been fine too. This does interest me a great deal though, as almost every room in my house has a Tivo

[Matt @ Dec 8th 2008 12:45AM]

It decreases quality when the networks connection slows down, but it does not increase it when network conditions improve. I'm jealous :(

[Arttemis @ Dec 8th 2008 12:49AM]

It's true - the 360 does automatically adjust the resolution when signal strength drops, but I'm not sure if it will resume the higher quality when the signal improves.

Also, I've had no problems with the color or brightness on the 360.

[Shayne @ Dec 8th 2008 12:22AM]

Its not available to everyone, from the pictures the [S] means it is in the staging area. This means this person is testing a beta software update. so its not available to everyone quite yet, seems someone broke their NDA.

[Dave Zatz @ Dec 8th 2008 12:26AM]

TiVo also gives press/bloggers an advance look. I didn't break an NDA and neither did Engadget. Here's a brief video of the interface, though I conveniently left out the [S] menu items.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO9AKnlcKes

[kastonie @ Dec 8th 2008 12:23AM]

so i got the message about my tivo hd receiving the fall update.....where is the netflix?

[Metkis @ Dec 8th 2008 12:34AM]

Engadget got the story about this out on the same minute they released a hands-on? Hot damn you guys are good.

[Prestwick @ Dec 8th 2008 12:59AM]

How to build your own Land Rover? Pure win!

Of course, the old Land Rover Series Is, IIs and IIIs (the originals, not the Discos or Range Rovers) were actually mostly bolted together rather than welded so whilst they tended to rattle themselves to pieces, they were easier to mend.

[jaffs @ Dec 8th 2008 1:01AM]

Got the update message, but can't find the Netflix option anywhere.

[Jason @ Dec 8th 2008 9:49AM]

Did you check the Video on Demand section throroughly?

[CaramelZappa @ Dec 8th 2008 1:12AM]

Your experience with the 360's streaming is completely different from mine. I get full bars every time I stream, unless my torrents are running, and if the network slows down in a movie it adjusts itself automatically.

[AnnieR @ Dec 8th 2008 1:37AM]

I too had the update message earlier today. On a whim, forced my Tivo HD to connect to the network, and voilà, a streaming away with Netflix we go. Easy. Decent quality. Fast to load (and I have a slow internet connection). Another reason I can live without the cost of cable/satellite.

[sam @ Dec 8th 2008 1:37AM]

if you got the Fall Update message today, you need to restart the TiVo to see the Netflix menu item. It is under the "Video On Demand" section of TiVo Central.


it works GREAT!

[JoN @ Dec 8th 2008 2:19AM]

anyone find a way to figure out what titles are HD and which titles aren't?

[Curtis @ Dec 8th 2008 11:50AM]

There's a genre named "HD" if you're browsing under the "Watch Instantly" tab.

[JoN @ Dec 8th 2008 2:22AM]

or what happens if you use profiles for your netflix account... what if you have 2 profiles for two people who use the same tivo? can you only access one of their queues?

[Curtis @ Dec 8th 2008 11:48AM]

Watch instantly is only enabled on your main queue, it doesn't work with multiple profiles.

[Mics @ Dec 8th 2008 2:24AM]

Nilay, do you or anybody know whether the Sony movies that are restricted on the Xbox also restricted on the Tivos and Samsung BD players too? I can understand the TOS could be different for watching on a PC and a set top box, but the way I see it there should be no distinction between these devices and the Xbox as set top boxes. Or has Sony lifted all the restrictions already? I know they did for some movies.

[Hashbrown Hunter @ Dec 8th 2008 3:03AM]

I wouldn't imagine it being a problem on any non-Microsoft system ;P

But in all seriousness, Sony is apparently working on the issue and hopefully things will be sorted out by the time this new TiVo service goes live.

[Todd @ Dec 8th 2008 7:07AM]

I used to really like NetFlix, but recently I have not been too happy. For one thing they are not offering this service to PCs. That pisses me off BIG time. I do not want to buy new hardware to support a struggling feature with too few of movies, but would like to try it. It sounds like it would be nice to be able to cache more of the movie or even all of it and watch it later (download it before you go to work...).

I have no confidence though with NetFlix for a few reasons. They have upped the cost of Blu-ray rentals, but with the upswing of Blu-ray players because of price drops and Christmas sales, it is pretty much impossible to get any Blu-ray new release movies right now. I have 11 movies on my list showing waits (3 short and 8 long) and have been waiting for on average about 1-2 months before I get them. My waiting list is soon going to be more than half my queue as 3 more movies are being released that are in my Queue. I am still waiting on You Don't Mess with the Zohan which came out October 7th (over 2 months ago) and it is still listed as long wait. I was hoping this was just temporary do to the price drops, but it is still getting worse.

The other thing they have started doing is saying they do not have the movie at the closest shipping center so they send the movie from a different location. Well this means instead of sending a movie back on Monday and getting a new one Wednesday I get the movie on Saturday or Monday. So instead of 2 movies a week I only get 1. They have done this 2 times recently and with all these long waits it is really making me unhappy. They should have an option to skip this feature and just send me the next available movie down my queue. Of course this was not even the movie at the top of my list... it was about #8 or so.

The last thing that has been bothering me is the fact that I still do not like their limited selection of downloadable SD movies and now they are actually removing movies. I had made a list in my instant queue of movies I might watch over time, so I do not need to keep looking through the lists. It was about 30 movies. Well 5 of them were removed from the list and are not available for download any more and 5 more said they were going to be removed on January 1, 2009. Such classics like The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai and The Fifth Element are being taken off the list. So what is up... Are they loosing contracts to distribute the media this way or are they too cheap to add more server space (bad if they are adding HD movies)?

So their prices increased, their service is decreasing, and now they are focusing on quick cash by catering to big companies that want their content, like TiVo and MS. I might have to just cancel my subscription and I used to really like NetFlix. Maybe things will get better after the Holidays.

[Jason @ Dec 8th 2008 9:46AM]

"For one thing they are not offering this service to PCs. That pisses me off BIG time."

Yeah, that should piss you off. Just like the fact that the PC was the first platform for the Instant Viewing so it's been doing it longer than anything else and you haven't been able to figure that out. Man, it really pisses me off when I could actually be streaming videos IN THE SAME WINDOW THAT I'M USING TO TYPE A COMPLAINT on engadget instead and I could be doing it *right now*.

Man, that really sucks that your alternate reality Netflix doesn't stream to your PC and doesn't have Buckaroo Bonzai or The Fifth Element available.

If you can't figure this out, you must be having a LOT of trouble running the footswitch that came with the computer.

"It sounds like it would be nice to be able to cache more of the movie or even all of it and watch it later (download it before you go to work...)."

Yeah, that would be nice. It's too bad this is a STREAMING service instead.

[aaronwt @ Dec 8th 2008 9:14AM]

""the 360's output is really dark, while the TiVo looks bright and crisp.""

Your settings are not correct if you get a dark picture on the 360. I have no problem with the two 360s I have netflix activated on. the picture is bright an crisp just like my other 15+ HD devices I use.

You need to recheck your settings to set it up properly. It's obvious you didn't do that otherwise you wouldn't have made that comment.

[Dan @ Dec 8th 2008 11:08AM]

Simple question for the reviewer:

- You're sure about 720p? It doesn't say that anywhere on the TiVo or NetFlix web pages. Could it just be DVD quality upsampled by your TiVo to 720p? You could possibly figure this out by dorking with your TiVo's output scaling settings. Set it to 480p then set it to "original resolution" or whatever, and see if there's a difference.

- Aside from video resolution, what about video quality? Apple's iTunes Store at standard resolution, for example, drops all the not-quite-black colors down to pure black. You can't tell on an iPhone, but on a big TV it's glaring. Apple's HD downloads solve this problem. Is the video quality actually HD?

- What about the audio quality? Is it Dolby Digital 5.1, or is it stereo, or something else?

[Nilay Patel @ Dec 8th 2008 11:24AM]

It's definitely 720p, the TiVo is set to Native. SD looks decent to my eyes, but the Kuro's upscaler is pretty good, so YMMV.

Netflix only streams stereo at the moment -- http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/20/netflix-cpo-gets-technical-about-encoding-for-streaming/

[Martin (MKWii 3737-9909-8012) @ Dec 8th 2008 11:50AM]

So can someone verify which TiVo models support Netflix streaming? From my own research the base model TiVo does not, and I'm looking to verify it with you fine folks in the know.

Thanks.

[demon @ Dec 8th 2008 4:40PM]

It only works with the Series3, TiVo HD and TiVo HD XL units; unfortunately the Series2 units and earlier aren't included in this. The reason for this is that the video decoding is done by a dedicated chip - on the Series3 family units, the decoder chip can handle MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC, and SMPTE VC-1 (which is what Netflix uses). The Series2 units only support MPEG-2. It's pretty unlikely that it will ever work for the Series2 units, as support for Windows Media DRM, VC-1, WMA, etc., are needed for Netflix streaming.

[Martin @ Dec 8th 2008 5:41PM]

Thanks for the information :)

[Matt @ Dec 8th 2008 12:00PM]

Being able to upgrade the quality during playback would be great. On my 360 and TWC, I get 4 bars and [HD] but after playing a few minutes, it downgrades. I watched season one and two of 30 rock and on every episode during the opening credits it would pause and downgrade my quality - _every_ time over multiple days. Usually to two bars. It is almost like TWC gives me a burst at the beginning of a flow (great for those bandwidth benchmarks!) but then peters out. Road Runner Turbo my ass. It does look pretty good for those few minutes...

[Sporkinum @ Dec 8th 2008 5:13PM]

Just couldn't make myself signup. I have too much crap to watch anyway.. even to the point that I may rent a movie every other month or so.

Thanks for starting the sign up process a couple of weeks ago on your Xbox 360 for your Netflix FREE trial. To complete sign up, simply go to www.netflix.com. In just a few minutes, you'll be ready to start choosing DVDs to be delivered by mail. In addition, almost immediately after signing up, you'll be able to instantly watch some movies & TV episodes on your TV via your Xbox 360.

Dear Sporkinum,

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