If there's one problem with modern operating systems it's that they're all rather planar. Sure,
OS X,
Vista, and others have some 3D tricks up their sleeves, stacking windows and layering them on cubes and such, but when you get down to business everything's rather more
Flatland than
Lawnmower Man. Apple, at least, has a plan for changing that in its patent application titled "Multidimensional Desktop," unearthed by
MacRumors, describing a way in which depth could be added to your typical virtual desktop. The patent covers dozens of scenarios, including geometric icons representing applications or documents being attached to the side surfaces, possibly replacing the rather tired "File, Edit, etc." menus at the top with positional hotspots on the right. Another example describes how light emanating from one 3D icon, a little sun representing the weather, could illuminate the other icons. It all sounds rather conceptual, but with the amount of detail included here (not to mention the familiar dock at the bottom) it's hard to label this is as just a flight of Cupertino creativity not intended for release.
[Via
MacRumors]
posted Dec 11th 2008 8:23AM
your mom is more flatland than lawnmower man
oh come on, that made me chuckle, which is more than I can say for the average comment :)
Yeah, c'mon. It's not everyday that Engadget is successfully witty. ;)
Wait, am I the only one who noticed that these images have 10.4's curved menu bar? Can you say "old patent"?
MacRumors... more like FailRumors.
I like the idea of contextual surfaces. That's about the only positive I can draw from this.
Me too. I'm just a little confused about the menu bar being on the back surface. I thought the whole point of having the menu bar at the top was to give your mouse an edge to stop on, promoting easy, consistent movements. The Dock is the same way, although in this drawing it is unmoved from the screen edge.
Alright, I'll bite. Do we need 3-D Glasses?
I'm not a fan of Mac at all but that concept is actually intresting. Its always nice to see applications with 3D effects. I'm sure it will be amazing. That is amazingly expensive.
zioncat, it's been around for ages, but Apple had to patent it to look as if they invented it.
doesn't linux already have this???
There is also a 3'rd party software for this for windows. I know that exists because i've used it.
It's been done before... check out http://bumptop.com/
Yeah... as I said, it's been done and the "rank" status of my post reflects engadget userbase quite well it seems.
This could be ideal for touch screen devices. wink wink.
how do you do a 3D gesture on a 2D touch screen? do we have to hold in a special button for the Z-axis? that would be retarded and awkward
@Angus
how is a special key supposed to help unless there are sensors on the z-axis? this is the ILLUSION of the 3D on a 2D surface. unless you can see behind the front most icons by sticking your head inside the monitor, everything has to be viewable from one POV: the front looking in.
if you want to access something "behind" other icons, you could just touch it to bring it to the front.
use your brain
@Angus
how is a special key supposed to help unless there are sensors on the z-axis? this is the ILLUSION of the 3D on a 2D surface. unless you can see behind the front most icons by sticking your head inside the monitor, everything has to be viewable from one POV: the front looking in.
if you want to access something "behind" other icons, you could just touch it to bring it to the front.
use your brain
you pinch through the Z-axis
I think I always knew that they were always going to make an OS for a 3D monitor provided they're still in business. A date would have been more shocking. Pretty much useless really.
surely this wont help for us who play far cry 2 :P i know its apple, but microsoft would follow
Vista will need 4GB ram to startup with that
I wouldn't worry about the RAM actually, more about the graphics card needs.
But hey, if it runs smooth and allows me to conveniently run my favourite apps, then why not add a bit of depth to the desktop. It needs it as hell! However, it also needs some genius designers and UI professionals, because if you don't get this spot on, your OS will be completely useless no matter what other highest-end features it carries.
That's fine.
I can buy 4GB of RAM for $50.
vista already does need 4GB
my 2gb laptop runs vista quite well.
Vista was pretty snappy on a gig of RAM that I got my T61 with when I took it out of the box. Turning it on for the first time was closely followed by dismantling it to install another 2 gigs of RAM. I honestly couldn't have been happier with my OS choice. Vista is FANTASTIC with 3 gigs of ram, and a Quadro GPU, and a 2.5 GhZ Core 2 Duo, and a 1680x1050 15" screen, and, uh... Wow! No shit it runs well! I'd crap myself if it wasn't a speed demon on my laptop!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think bumptop already does this.
http://bumptop.com/
It does and it's pretty awesome. (I'm in the beta)
Looks like Apple stole bumptop's idea!!!! I see big money in bumptop's future.
And Metisse: http://insitu.lri.fr/metisse/
And Sun's Looking Glass: http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/
And simply having multiple desktops makes almost all that functionality redundant and confusing.
Apple is only adding eye-candy (external weather modifying illumination in my desktop? No, thanks) and its name. Of course, that will be more than enough for a lot of people.
By the way, I didn't know bumptop and it is quite cool. Its auto-sorting features is nice.
Microsoft tried this in numerous usability studies early on in Vista's planning stages.
It's safe to say that this is a bad idea until it can also be visualized in three dimensions by the human mind as well (i.e. holograms or a stereoscopic display)
Bryant, I sort-of agree with you. The problem is that the actual human interface devices (mouse, screen) are only two dimensional. The way to make a good 3D interface for a screen/mouse is to take a 2D UI appear 3D, but still work in a 2D way. I think Apple's ideas here accomplish this, with the side bar, but I'm not convinced about things like the menu bar not being on the top of the screen where it is most effective.
even if apple completely ripped this off,
i dont think its possible to copywrite a dimension.
@Elora HRanma
Thanks for the links - I remember seeing Sun's Project Looking Glass a while back and I didn't really see how 3D was going to help my work. I tend to think the same of Apple's proposal and therefore we really need to see this in action before we can see whether it is something worth getting excited about. I've tried 3D file systems in the past and, frankly, they just made everything more confusing.
will they be calling this Little Mac Planet?
Just watch - now Apple will ban Bumptop from being installed because it duplicates the features of OS X.
Linux has already had this for quite a while with Beryl.
except it actually makes sense on Linux... bumptop = clutter fail
At first glance this Apple idea looks really stupid - it actually wastes desktop space. Then I saw the bumptop thing and it makes a bit more sense. Still kind scratching my head over what this buys you.
Once again Apple patent the incredibly obvious !
It is like old-school Shadowrun! Watch out for Black ICE!
/I did it all for the nuyen.
//See you, chummer.
///slashies
I'll be surprised if this is anything beyond eye-candy. I have yet to make use of spaces, and I really tryed but not being able to set seperate wallpapers kinda kills it. Most of Apple's recent UI ideas have been pretty useless, including springloaded dock icons. I nearly creamed myself when i saw them demonstrated then when i finally got Leopard i thought "oh" half thought out and not useful.
I have to disagree with you on that one. Not every person who uses OSX, works on their system exactly the same. For example, the introduction of Spaces was a dream come true to me as I often have several Adobe or Music production apps open at once, and each app has multiple windows open within itself (photoshop, and illustrator are a prime example of this). So with that being said, I come to notice that most of Apple's "eye candy" implementations are usually in the form of transitions, animations, and to make the look of the OS itself more engaging. New elements to the UI usually have a purpose or functionality thats pretty useful or improves productivity for users (depending on the user and how they use the OS of course).
Now as far as the 3D UI, I could pretty much see the direction they are heading in once I saw the new dock in Leopard. The big question is implementation. As long as this makes things easier and stays out of the way, I'm all for it. They've been pretty good with this OSX thing so far, so I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they will do this the right way.
PS
Also, if this is never released to the public, we can all bet that this idea created more usability problems than it solved. OR knowing Apple, they will implement this idea in bits and pieces over the next several OSX releases.
@Major4Play
I entirely agree that individual wallpapers would benefit Spaces but I have to say that I do find it very useful as it is today, as long as I know which Space I am currently working in.
Well actually Spaces wasn't Apple's idea either - virtual desktops are damn near 20 years old in the unix world. Their implementation is elegant but not having different wallpapers is a ridiculous omission.
The 3d desktop is not really a remotely original idea either. It has been around for a long time and even if apple has the best chance of making it usable I still doubt that it will go anywhere. I tried the bumptop beta and found it useless and cheesy.
But Charles, having the features is nice. For example, I use expose and dashboard all the time. The only springloaded folders I use are the standard downloads and documents ones, but they're useful. Actually the term springloaded folders describes the ability to drag and hold and have the folder you're holding over pop open and reveal its contents, so that you can move into a nested series of folders with one action (even if it takes awhile to wait for all of those folders to open!)
I'm 99% sure you could get virtual desktops software for OS X just like you could for most OSes; I used them all the time in Linux a long time ago but find no need for them these days.
BTW, the Leopard dock sucks compared to the Tiger dock.
One word: BumpTop.
http://bumptop.com/
Well, one closed-form compound word. Seriously though, BumpTop is neat. Now my desktop can look as messy as the rest of my desk.
mmm, can't wait for my gfx card fan to kick in every 5 seconds as i move icons.
It's already doing it on Vista.
Lol.
Three fingers up/down on the trackpad to navigate orthogonal to the plane of the screen ...
Seem like its more next-gen of time machine than bumptop.
Or, rather, taking time machine a step further by integrating the 3D concept into the regular OS operations.
How's it work? My mouse is only 2D
or: http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/
Not the same thing.
Looks like the "Navi" from the anime Lain. Somebody should file for prior art. :P
useless patent that will never hold up.
however, if 3d desktops in 3d space take flight, we will need new forms of input besides a mouse to navigate. The real innovation will be in the input, not in the interface.
i'm guessing this is where the leopard dock originated from?
I guess these 3D environments can be beneficial to some people, but personally I find them to be quasi annoying novelty items. I really like a clean, simple desktop with lots of features and power under the OS hood. I don't need that power visually displayed, hogging up my resources and cluttering everything up.
I was wondering when they'd get around to something like this, I pitched a similar idea to a friend almost 10 years back when OS 8 was out after seeing the spring loaded folders, and playing more than a few hours of Quake. I've long been guilty of having a cluttered desktop, and prefer to have things out where I can see them. Of course searching functions have improved a lot since.
It seemed to me then that by having the ability to move past the information visually represented on the plane of the desktop, you'd be able to navigate your folders in a more natural way with an expanded desktop. Looking at Time Machine, and how intuitive it is to navigate, it seems like a logical progression. I've yet to really make much use of Spaces because of the out of sight, out of mind factor of files placed on the other spaces.
Is it just me...or does this sound ALOT like Microsoft BOB?
THANK YOU! I was hoping someone would bring this up. (Actually, I was hoping to be the first, but screw it.) Whenever I see an interface that tries to mirror a 3D environment in 2D, I think of two options: Quake or MS Bob. Bob seems pretty useless to me, but if the multitouch gestures turn my desktop into a first-person shooter, THAT might be cool.
OSX v.10.9... Lion hunter!
Exactly!
And... good example.
Forget my previous comment, bad shortcut...
Anyway,
3D-Space VFS : http://marcmoini.com/f3_en.html
3DOSX : http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/macwarriors/projects/oldprojects/3dosx/screenshots.html
An oldie, 3D Finder : http://www.doctorgavin.com/Apple/finder.html
...
...
3D Operating System : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZcJOZC38iQ
and the worst,
tactile3d : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM9DHN9KYpY
Etc, etc.
...
3D Operating System : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZcJOZC38iQ
And the worst IMO,
tactile3d : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM9DHN9KYpY
Etc, etc.
It's a shame that things like this can actually be patented... :-(
Not that it's particularly useful...
What about applying for a patent for "Simulating real world things as 3d objects on screen to manipulate them?"
Why does it use the menu bar from Tiger?
Must be an old patent or an old concept only patented now.
If apple can't get past 1 mouse button, how will they get past 2 dimensions?
apple needs to start getting back to basics and fixing their core services before they start tricking out their OS even more.
Leopard has been crashing on me frequently, I have mobileme engineers trying to the issues my account with no success, and their RAID drivers have been broken since Leopard's release, and all they can think about is is OS 10.7 Shoebox, the future if diorama computing, oh and what the latest nano colors will be.
Does anyone realize they are phasing out their current cinema displays (the last apple monitor good for any sort of print color accuracy and luminance) and replacing them all with the type of monitor that comes standard in the latest laptops, iMac's and the new 24" display. If anyone has used this who works in print (a component of apple's previous customer base) you'll know that these monitors are sure bright, but completely inaccurate.
in other words
:(
Apple is the most innovative company in the world, no argument here ~
You need to go to Japan or something, it's located in the east of the REAL WORLD
This is super fancy and all but before they steam ahead with this I hope they catch themselves on and bring back the option to cut and paste in finder - its the little things that count.
You actually reach into the screen of your Macbook, and Steve Jobs hand finds yours, and he pulls you through, and you're there and so is Steve, both inside the Mac and standing on the dock, looking at each other.
Taaaaaaaake oooooooon meeeeeee ...
(Take on me)
Taaaaaaaake meeeeeee onnnnnnnn ...
(Take on me)
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii'll beeeeeeee goooooone ...
(etc.)
Maybe you use a VR headset like in Disclosure. Would prefer virtual Demi to Steve.
So many possibilities here it's hard to react but if you like a clean desktop it doesn't matter if it's bumptop, 2D, 3D or smell-o-vision. It's just more gimmicks, eye candy to distract from the fact that the GUI stalled a decade or two ago.
OS support for stereoscopic software- now that'd be significant [especially on autostereoscopic displays]. Imagine running 3D creation apps like Cinema4D or Max in real 3D, not 2.5D!
Why not just bring the computer into the real world? Already has 3d built in.
To be more specific, how about glasses/contacts/goggles that have a translucent overlay? Then, the webcam on the bridge of the nose can help you attach tags to things in the real world; your pal Steve would show up with his info and latest status hovering to the side. With bluetooth in the phone-like device that is powering this, you could get any info you didn't have that he wants you to, or that he has set to auto-send to friends.
Much more practical than a desktop cube.
The diagram looks like a whole lot of rectangles, a few hexagons and a couple of triangles have got together to watch a movie. Sadly someone didn't know how to set up the speaker system.
Looks like you'd need a pretty big monitor to be able to use this without loosing space for the actual programs.
Im sure you could make existing products work in 3d.
http://gi.leica-geosystems.com/LGISub1x10x0.aspx is a product called TopoMouse for the geospatial industry. Does x, y, z.
It's usually used with a stereo display which is avail... http://reald-corporate.com/scientific/ probably has some.
Even the Kensington trackball could be made to do the same as the TopoMouse with the scroll ring thing.
http://us.kensington.com/html/2200.html
Steve, 3D Desktops are a trap!
-Bill
Hooray for the obscure Flatland reference! The great sphere knows all.
there was something like this at the TED conference last year. i looked really neat when put into a touchscreen format. go to the TED website and check it out, this was the same confrence that apple got its "zoom in fingers" for the iphone a couple years back
Whats the point?
your monitor can only produce 2D imagery. A 3D desktop environment will produce visual clutter but make good use of your spatial memory, but your desktop changes all the time with new windows and other items on top so remebering where things are on your desktop would also be pointless.