Documents suggest Microsoft knew Xbox 360 could damage discs all along

Microsoft long ago fessed up that the Xbox 360 was capable of scratching discs, and it even offered a (somewhat limited) exchange program for damaged games, but some recently unsealed documents from an ongoing lawsuit now suggest that the company was well aware of the issue for about as long as the console has been around. According to The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Microsoft first discovered the problem in September or October of 2005, and it even went so far as to send a "team of engineers" to stores across the US to determine the best course of action. Apparently, they came up with three options, two of which proved to be impractical, and one of which (installing small bumpers in each and every console) proved to be too expensive, leading Microsoft to offer the disc exchange instead. What's more, the documents apparently also revealed that some Microsoft employees thought that the warning labels on the console were insufficient, and that the company has received complaints about the problem from more than 55,000 customers as of April 30th of this year. No word on any movement just yet in the lawsuits themselves just yet but one of them, filed back in July of 2007, is seeking class-action status on behalf of everyone that's bought an Xbox 360.

[Thanks, Lyons]

[Samboini @ Dec 15th 2008 5:03PM]

Is this a problem only if you move it whilst it is on, or is it a problem regardless? I ask as I have as of yet had no problems, touch wood!

[HunterXI @ Dec 15th 2008 5:22PM]

Specifically, a problem where the 360 will scratch discs while just sitting there (related to bad disc spindles that wobble too much). Any old disc drive will scratch a disc if you rotate it fast enough.

I just don't get this class-action. What's the point? To get Microsoft to fess up again? To get Microsoft to fix them like they already do?

Gotta love the US, I guess. Class-actions for class-action's sake. The South Park episode about Scientology comes to mind...

[dagamer34 @ Dec 15th 2008 5:34PM]

@HunterXI

Replacing discs isn't solving the problem if all it's going to do is scratch the disc again. That's the problem with cutting corners, it's way too easy to spend more money than fixing the problem in the first place. And now they get some bad PR about it too.

Of course, this is why the first rule of technology exists: "Never buy first generation or first manufacturing run hardware." or more simply put "Bragging rights cost cold hard cash in the long run."

[ldrn @ Dec 15th 2008 5:38PM]

Probably because Microsoft only replaces first-party discs. I had this happen to me, and surprisingly, my sympathy for a company that tries to fuck me over is pretty much nill. ;) The DRM stops people from making backups and now the console destroys disks... seriously, how can you sit there and mock people who are upset over this?

I was fortunate -- even though my disc wasn't on their exchange program and despite looking truly horrendous, with multiple circles around the disk where the 360 had scratched it, I took it to a local video rental store and paid them two dollars to resurface it and it worked. (I highly recommend trying this to anyone with disk trouble.)

[Eddie W @ Dec 15th 2008 5:39PM]

The other point is to make businesses think twice about cutting corners like this. It sounds like they knew what the problem was ahead of time and decided that it made the most sense to basically ignore it, from a financial stand point - well, this would make them regret making that decision. Maybe next time they'll decide to fix the problem before it ships.

[El Capitaine @ Dec 15th 2008 5:59PM]

"No word on any movement just yet in the lawsuits themselves just yet but one of them, filed back in July of 2007, is seeking class-action status on behalf of everyone that's bought an Xbox 360."

If this means money for all 360 owners... I'm happy.

If this means MS has to pay an extraordinary amount of money to the few parties directly involved with the lawsuit...not happy at all.

[why not the LS2LS7? @ Dec 15th 2008 7:55PM]

It's rare to have this problem without moving the unit while it is on.

[glitchbit @ Dec 15th 2008 11:21PM]

"The DRM stops people from making backups and now the console destroys disks... seriously, how can you sit there and mock people who are upset over this?"

Maybe it stopped you, but it did not stop everyone..

[queengeek @ Dec 16th 2008 11:31AM]

The problem isn't just scratches on the disc, which would be from moving it while it was on, but that the laser and the cushions that spin the disc are just enough off that playing a disc for more than a fairly short time can cause the disc to crack or even shatter and can also cause the infamous "red ring of death". So it isn't just a case of a lawsuit for lawsuits sake -- the 360's can actually cause a fire, burns, or catch fire themselves.

[Troy Powers @ Dec 16th 2008 10:38AM]

@dagamer34

"Of course, this is why the first rule of technology exists: 'Never buy first generation or first manufacturing run hardware.' or more simply put 'Bragging rights cost cold hard cash in the long run.'"

Unless, of course, you bought a launch PS3, in which case you got the best machine with the most features.

No fanboyism. I'm just sayin'.

[B3astofthe3ast @ Dec 15th 2008 5:03PM]

My CoD2 still remains with a nice perfect circle carved on it because of my 360.

[DragonSpeed @ Dec 15th 2008 5:18PM]

My Halo3 disc does too :(

[nerdtalker @ Dec 15th 2008 5:27PM]

Forza motorsport here.

I think everyone did it about 20 minutes after getting their 360 working. Probably doing the same thing too:
"Check this out, the Ring of Lights auto-orients depending on the 360's position!"
"Woah let me see!"
/turns xbox from vertical to horizontal while playing
***GRRIINNNNDDD***
"OH SHIT dude you just SCRATCHED MY LAUNCH TITLE!"
/facepalm

[Ike Skelton @ Dec 15th 2008 5:30PM]

As is my GTA IV disc. Didn't notice it until I tried to start up a game on my cousins Xbox and it wouldn't load all the way. It works fine other than trying to start a new game.

[JAmerican @ Dec 15th 2008 5:45PM]

My Saints Row 2 disc :(

[deyanimay @ Dec 15th 2008 6:20PM]

Just go rent a copy then transfer it to the hard drive so next time you want to play all you have to do is insert your broken disc just so it knows you own the game.

[GenoMalice @ Dec 15th 2008 9:36PM]

Thats why, my friends, I bought myself a Playstation 3. The games *might* not be on par with those on the 360, BUT, atleast that 60-70 dollars I've invested in these hard, hard times will not be destroyed by the damn system I bought it for!

[maveric101 @ Dec 16th 2008 3:40AM]

just like nerdtalker said, scratched my GRAW disk playing with the light ring. luckily it still works.

[kal326 @ Dec 16th 2008 12:25PM]

I'm with nerdtalker on this one. I have had two differant 360s all of which has always sat horizontal and not moved when operating. I also have not had one scratched disc, coincidence....I think not.

This is like sueing a hard drive maker for lossing data because somebody knocked your tower off your desk when it was running.

Warnings are there for a reason.

[StalematE @ Dec 15th 2008 5:04PM]

...sigh...

[loocas @ Dec 15th 2008 5:16PM]

This one is gonna be expensive, Redmond... :/

[Jhongerkong @ Dec 15th 2008 5:04PM]

better get the tinfoil hats

[StalematE @ Dec 15th 2008 5:13PM]

Why?

[BlurMagic @ Dec 15th 2008 5:39PM]

Yeah. WTF are you talking about? You went from scratched discs to tinfoil hats? How is that even possible? And I thought my posts were random and off topic...

[Samboini @ Dec 15th 2008 5:59PM]

Pcikled ghurkins?

[drew @ Dec 15th 2008 6:19PM]

I'm just curious.. what do you think it means to "get the tinfoil hats"?

[James @ Dec 16th 2008 1:14AM]

To scratch our disc and get in on the lawsuit?

[Tejas @ Dec 15th 2008 5:05PM]

Jerks

[Muamer @ Dec 15th 2008 5:05PM]

Yup. My COD4 disc is pretty scratched up, even though, I never remove it from the xbox.....I am addicted to that game

[monkfishbandana @ Dec 15th 2008 5:05PM]

This isn't bad news. Add this to the list of specifications and people are more likely to buy it, right?

[MohammadAG @ Dec 15th 2008 5:20PM]

Yeah it gives discs a new look.

[BigD145 @ Dec 15th 2008 6:03PM]

Replacing discs every year is a feature. Microsoft is just trying to get consumers to float the boat.

[Lowest Ranked @ Dec 15th 2008 6:11PM]

Install to harddrive.

[MohammadAG @ Dec 15th 2008 6:17PM]

@Lowest Ranked
Then the disc would be covered with dust inside the Xbox 360 which might lead to a lens that can't read discs

[Dave Chappelle @ Dec 15th 2008 9:19PM]

@ LowestRanked

"Install to harddrive."

why should anyone have to you asshole? Then when the hard drive gets filled you can come and buy a $150 P.O.S new one.

[X820 @ Dec 15th 2008 5:05PM]

That's Microsoft for you! But any company will also do the same thing in order to keep their cost low. But still it's not acceptable.

[Samboini @ Dec 15th 2008 5:13PM]

Reminds me of the scene from fight club re: car accidents and recalls.

[Telanis @ Dec 15th 2008 9:27PM]

Don't talk about fight club.

[Patriks7 @ Dec 15th 2008 5:09PM]

Wasn't there something like this with the PS2? Cause I remember being addicted to GTA San Andreas, hardly ever taking it out, and when I did I put it right away into a case, so there was no way of scratching it. Yet, it has become unusable because the back is totally scratched :(

[V Langs @ Dec 15th 2008 5:18PM]

there was a case with ps2 when it was vertical causing problems.

stupid sony starting the vertical game system trend...

but the 360 scratches even when it's flat. my gta4 was royally scratched because i played it so much. and games are REALLY expensive, there should be some type of warranty for this stuff

[sjdurfey @ Dec 15th 2008 6:34PM]

i had that problem with GTAIII on my ps2. In was in my console for maybe a month straight after i bought it, and one day the environments werent rendering correctly. I took the disc out, noticed some nice, perfectly, circular scratches (the console always sat flat). I went up to eb games to have them replace it, and the manager told me that i scratched it myself, and refused to honor the return policy.

[Androly-San @ Dec 15th 2008 5:11PM]

Yet people will continue to support this piece of crap until it's the only serious console left.

Then, without the incentive of competition, they'll be in even less of a hurry to fix their crap and their customer support will sink even lower.

Thanks Microsoft, you're well on your way to single handedly ruining console gaming.

[3dpenguin @ Dec 15th 2008 5:18PM]

The existence of 2 or 3 and lack of competition between them isn't Microsoft's fault, its Sony's fault for creating a system that was far too costly for the average consumer and then under pricing their own devices and trying to make up for it through software sales, making it far more costly for the game companies to stay exclusive.

[Tomheivers @ Dec 15th 2008 5:22PM]

Then again, Sony did make something that works, and still works without any major flaws

[Androly-San @ Dec 15th 2008 5:39PM]

Are you seriously pulling out the price card? All peripherals considered, the PS3 came out to the same price or cheaper than the 360 (even at launch).
So at the same price you have one poorly (and they knew it) built console and a console that has had VERY few issues.

Please don't try to argue this, they're facts.

[drew @ Dec 15th 2008 6:19PM]

So your argument is that people are only buying the 360 now because they are stupid and not because you can get one for $200 vs. the cheapest PS3 retailing for $400. I'm sorry, why isn't price a valid argument??

[rudefyet @ Dec 15th 2008 6:58PM]

Price isn't entirely valid when you compare what the systems ship with, the $199 Xbox has no wi-fi or hard disk, and while now it is actually a cheaper choice with the 20gb drive price dropping too, it wasn't when I bought mine.

I, without thinking, bought the Xbox Arcade model because it was all I had the money for at the time at $289. After that I was forced to pay $100 for a 20gb for backwards compatibility and the fact the Halo map packs wouldn't fit on the memory card, then $100 on wi-fi, which the first adapter was DOA (to add insult to injury). So at $490, $90 more then my PS3, is what I spen, so now and forever more I'm going to be a little bitter towards the Xbox.

[LiQuiD_FuSioN @ Dec 15th 2008 7:16PM]

Wait, so you're saying that just because the 360 is less expensive than the PS3 that people are stupid enough to want quality over quantity?

[Rambler @ Dec 15th 2008 8:06PM]

@rudefyet

Well you're just an idiot. You're one of the suckers that Microsoft loves, you have no idea what your buying so you get ripped off. It's your own stupid fault for spending more on sn Xbox than a PS3. Do your homework next time.

[maveric101 @ Dec 16th 2008 3:58AM]

rudefyet:

not everyone wants/needs wifi on their xbox. mine is hard-wired. building in wifi would force me to pay for it.