Orange's iPhone exclusive ruled illegal in France

After 13 months into a five-year exclusivity deal in France, the French competition agency has ruled the Apple and Orange (the mobile subsidiary of France Telecom) cartel illegal. Something that could have a knock-on effect throughout Europe. The agency criticized the Orange/Apple pact for having "grave and immediate" effect on the overall French mobile marketplace and thus, the French consumer, by introducing "a new flavor of rigidity in a sector that already lacks competition." The injunction, while temporary, is enough to allow other French carriers to distribute the iPhone 3G in time for the holidays. Shrug.

[Thanks, Tieum and Nick]

[Macca @ Dec 17th 2008 8:24AM]

Good on them. Now only if this would spread to the rest of the world.

[James Pope @ Dec 17th 2008 8:38AM]

come to australia!

optus,
vodafone,
telstra
...

take your pick!

[Blastar @ Dec 17th 2008 9:32AM]

That's what happens when the American market crappy monopoly games meet the heart of Socialism in Europe.

[charlie @ Dec 17th 2008 10:15AM]

Lets see now. An exclusivity deal encourages other phone networks AND manufacturers to make better phones so they can compete with the exclusivity deal.

Now that all the networks can sell the "best phone" they lose some of their incentive to encourage manufactures to make better phones.

Oh well.

[Wwhat @ Dec 17th 2008 10:41AM]

Socialism in europe? This isn't the 70's, get a new calendar.
Another newsflash (also usable by journalists): The soviet union is gone too.

[EskimoPie @ Dec 17th 2008 10:59AM]

I for one think this is total BS... I'm no apple fan boy, I don't even own any apple products, but I think the whole premise is just whack. If I work my butt off to create a new product that lots of people like, why in the H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks should the government be able to tell me WHO I can sell it to? My product, I made it, I'll sell it (or not) to ANYONE I dang well please.

[Derbeste @ Dec 17th 2008 11:22AM]

@Eskimopie

Way to judge every culture in the world by your culture's standards. How very ethnocentric of you.

The entire world is not capitalist. In fact, much of the world finds capitalism to be greedy and fundamentaly flawed.

There system dictates the government is fully within their rights to void any practice they find to be contrary to the good of the public. They are socialist and they can say that word without implying some sort of evil.

Btw.....the government isn't telling Apple who they can and cannot sell too. They are telling Apple they cannot use the French government to FORCE other carriers to NOT sell iPhones. Quite honestly, that sounds more "free" than our system in the U.S.A.

And to others that say this stifles competition....

HOW? The fact that all carriers can sell a phone means more saturation which means other phones makers should be MORE afraid of Apple and should have more incentive to hurry up and come out with better products.

Honestly people......

l2perspective

[Ray @ Dec 17th 2008 11:26AM]

What deberste said

and "My product, I made it, I'll sell it (or not) to ANYONE I dang well please. "

You do realize that apple doesnt really sell their phones in the US right? The alliance with att means they are selling only to att customers, which in someways can be looked at as discrimination toward any none att user. Im just saying...

[rv @ Dec 17th 2008 4:17PM]

@Derbeste
Why are you calling him ethnocentric? He never said that France, or French culture was bad. he simply said he didn't agree with the practice of someone else telling you how you can sell your product. I don't see him "judging" any specific country or culture.

[Derbeste @ Dec 17th 2008 4:41PM]

eth⋅no⋅cen⋅trism   /ˌɛθnoʊˈsɛntrɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [eth-noh-sen-triz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. Sociology. the belief in the inherent superiority of one's own ethnic group or culture.
2. a tendency to view alien groups or cultures from the perspective of one's own.

- www.dictionary.com -

[rv @ Dec 17th 2008 6:28PM]

I know the fucking meaning of ethnocentrism dumbass. Where in this post do you see anything hating on France or its government?

"I for one think this is total BS... I'm no apple fan boy, I don't even own any apple products, but I think the whole premise is just whack. If I work my butt off to create a new product that lots of people like, why in the H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks should the government be able to tell me WHO I can sell it to? My product, I made it, I'll sell it (or not) to ANYONE I dang well please."

The only reference is to "the government" and that is probably referring to governments in general, not Frances. I fail to see any ethnocentrism in this post. I will add something ethnocentric of my own though. I guess all French are shitheads who don't know how to read.

[shugg @ Dec 17th 2008 7:19PM]

so iphone just went from 199$ to 754$ in france,yeah freedom,thanx dumb ass judge ,he just po'd cuz lance armstrong dominated their stinky asses for 7-8 years in tour defrance.instead they should enforce mandatory daily french showering n dental check ups.,not to mention most features apps wont work with non orange euro providers,he's doing them a disservice.,.,

[nikster @ Dec 17th 2008 7:06PM]

@DerBeste: I think the ruling doesn't go far enough. The whole ecosystem whereby operators control the handsets on their network needs to be broken up. There are three different business transactions: Buying a phone, financing the phone, and entering into a contract with an operator. Right now, they are all muddled together in a non-transparent way which ends up benefitting the operators and no-one else - operators control phone prices, financing (via "subsidies"), and contract (which contains hidden fees to cover the subsidy).

The best thing for customers would be to have free choice of phone, financing, and contract. They should be able to buy the phone from a vendor at the corner, get financing from somebody else, and the contract from any operator they choose. Operators should be allowed to offer all this too, like they do now, but should be forced to separate out prices for the subsidy, and made to offer the same contract without subsidy. A contract should have a price for the service, and a price for the subsidy, transparently marked. Your $49/month contract consists of a $29/month service fee and a $20 subsidy for your iPhone. And you should have the option to get the same contract without the subsidy if you bring your own phone.

What Apple has done is go to new extremes with the bundling deals, but they didn't invent the concept.

[Macca @ Dec 18th 2008 3:16AM]

James, I am in Australia. I'm on Optus, and the reception is just awful. Telstra and Vodafone's plans are terribly priced, and 3, the only one offering reasonable prices and good coverage hasn't got a deal with Apple. Yes, this still needs to spread to Australia.

[Jamar @ Dec 18th 2008 9:27AM]

@charlie-
"Now that all the networks can sell the "best phone" they lose some of their incentive to encourage manufactures to make better phones."
But they DO make better phones; they just don't want to sell overseas. Why else would Europe have, for example, the C902 from SE instead of the nice SO905iCS that Japan got from SE with 3x optical zoom, face detection, a DSLR-quality sensor, and all that nice stuff? SE doesn't want to sell it; any carrier would want to have the "honor" of exclusively selling a phone with specs like that!

[Tarnation @ Dec 17th 2008 8:29AM]

Those crazy French and their crazy weird lawmakin'. Although I don't see why Apple just don't go ahead and make that there iPhone for everyone's network. Oh wait then they would be like Microsoft what with the huge overwhelming dominance in the phone industry edging on Monopolistic at times making money hand over fist...yeah that's not a good idea at all. Meh that new Moto hawtness a few stories down will ease mah jealousy when they come out.

[pavlindrom @ Dec 17th 2008 8:40AM]

And it's better like this... not selling enough, not selling right, and not working too well for the businesses.

[Mark @ Dec 17th 2008 12:39PM]

So does this make France the new California?

[RichardR @ Dec 17th 2008 8:31AM]

Now, if only they would do the same in the UK for the iPhone on O2 and the G1 on Tmobile!

[Mobius_1 @ Dec 17th 2008 8:43AM]

Screw that, I'm moving to France! :P

[Oli D @ Dec 17th 2008 8:45AM]

apparently the Iphone will eventually be available on Vodafone, but as for the G1 i don't know.

I always thought that all this exclusivity sounded totally illegal, its nice to see some action being taken against monopoly

[fanman @ Dec 17th 2008 11:25AM]

The problem I have is with the sim lock, which limits the product. I think if I make a phone I should be able to sell it to whoever I like, but equally that whoever buys should be able to do whatever they like with it.

So I disagree with this particular French law.

[Sim @ Dec 17th 2008 8:24PM]

In the uk, the simlock is illegal - shame that the system means they can charge an "admin fee" and you have to ask them to unlock it. So noone does.

[Professor STFU @ Dec 17th 2008 8:32AM]

They should bring out Jobs into the street and give him a beating / bag of hurt

1/ for ignoring copy and paste
2/ being so 'locked in' to carriers
3/ it'd do him some good

[who? @ Dec 17th 2008 10:05AM]

I'll give you a bag of hurt... (Why, oh, whhhhy do you all keep setting yourselves up for that one?)

[K @ Dec 17th 2008 8:33AM]

First the french complained it was locked...
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/orange-to-sell-unlocked-iphone-in-france/

Now they complain about providers... and they get things done!

It's like V (for vendetta) said...
People should not be affraid of manufacturers, manufacturers should be affraid of them. Or something like that...

And no it's not going to spread... no one else has the balls or the stamina to take the fight to Apple.

[Tarnation @ Dec 17th 2008 8:38AM]

I don't think it has anything to do with balls. If I had the money and the high priced legal team I would be takin' it to those bastards, but sadly I don't. If given the opportunity I would also punch El Jobso in the ovary.

[mcatrage @ Dec 17th 2008 8:43AM]

That was the worst V for Vendetta reference I've ever seen.

[Kizorblade @ Dec 17th 2008 9:11AM]

You know, just do a facepalm.
Right now.
That was horrid.

/Facepalm

[Mobius_1 @ Dec 17th 2008 10:07AM]

I, for one, welcome "fireworks" at the Eiffel Tower.

[Alex @ Dec 17th 2008 8:36AM]

Great, are there any shops that offer the unlocked-no-contract version already?

[Vianon @ Dec 17th 2008 8:42AM]

You can buy it unlocked from Orange, it's quite expensive though, something like 500 and 600 euros depending on the version.

[SD @ Dec 17th 2008 8:42AM]

It doesn't say that they have to sell it unlocked, it says that they have to allow all carriers to sell it.

Right now, you can buy an unlocked iPhone at an Orange shop for 709 euros unlocked (16gb). Or you can get it for 129 euros with a 12 month contract. They are required by French law to unlock a contract phone at your request for 100 euros (before 6 months) or for free (after 6 months).

The only thing this ruling changes is that now all carriers can sell the phone. I expect the prices to be nearly the same, but the other providers have much better plans than Orange. Orange is like the "nextel" of french providers - expensive, strict policies, and you don't get any benefit by paying more for their service.

And I haven't seen anyone else selling it yet, which is not surprising since the ruling is a few hours old.

[Kelmon @ Dec 17th 2008 9:29AM]

You can get totally unlocked, contract-free iPhones in Belgium but they cost an eye watering EUR 525 (8GB) or EUR 615 (16GB). I'd like one but I'm not about to pony-up that sort of money, particularly when the call plans available from the local companies are a bit crap.

http://iphone3g.mobistar.be/en/iphone3g.cfm#

[2shae @ Dec 17th 2008 8:44AM]

I hope i don't get voted down down for this.
OWNED!

Still not moving to France though

[Lamp @ Dec 17th 2008 1:39PM]

god forbid you get low ranked.
life as you know it might end.

someone on the internet might disagree with you!!

[who? @ Dec 17th 2008 2:09PM]

I doubt that he cares what other people on the internet think, the problem is the whole white out thing that Engadget has going on. If you ask me, they should make low ranked posts tinted red, and higher ones either light blue or green.

Censoring unpopular comments by making them hard to read is more of a punishment to the rest of us as than to the commenter. My eyes hurt... :(

[JanSchotsmans @ Dec 17th 2008 8:41AM]

Thing is, Apple, no matter what the rulling is, will more then likely only sell the phone to Orange and to no other provider or store in France.
They still have the right to deny sales to anyone other then their own chosen partners unless a judge declares a penalty fee for every day the phone isn't available in x% volume at other providers or stores.

[thanatos12 @ Dec 17th 2008 8:44AM]

Psh...beat me to it while I was confirming comment

[Wwhat @ Dec 17th 2008 10:48AM]

You are wrong, they will be forced by either fines or not being allowed to sell it at all, you think they only just now came across an attempt to monopolise and are making laws up as they go along?

[nanobis @ Dec 17th 2008 8:37AM]

I guess that is one good thing about the French, they dont take shit from no one!

[Velik @ Dec 17th 2008 8:47AM]

... You must have the French confused with some other nationality

[Adam @ Dec 17th 2008 10:47AM]

French - Don't take no Shit from no one your right there!
Google - French Strike now try it with your own country !
We Could all learn a little from the french working hours / petrol / cigarettes / Health Services / Iphone's ECT . . . .

[Wwhat @ Dec 17th 2008 10:44AM]

Indeed, even though the french used to resist the US a bit at least, now with sarkozy they are just odd-accented americans.

[randf @ Dec 17th 2008 3:21PM]

except from the germans.

and before that, the germans again.

and before that the english.

but go ahead, you seem to be on a roll

[K @ Dec 17th 2008 8:38AM]

Sorry my bad...
German too: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2007/11/want_an_unlocke.html

[thanatos12 @ Dec 17th 2008 8:42AM]

What good will this do, I wonder? Correct me if I am wrong, but Apple isn't a French company and so the Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkeys have no authority over who Apple does and doesn't refuse to sell their products to. Surely Orange could find some way to maintain their exclusivity agreement...

[Magallanes @ Dec 17th 2008 8:55AM]

Legally and under the local law, Apple is a french company.

[A @ Dec 17th 2008 9:06AM]

Yeah, local law does not apply to foreign companies. For instance Honda does whatever it wants in the US. God you are an idiot.

[Derbeste @ Dec 17th 2008 11:27AM]

Remember that American idiot in the 90s that got flogged in Singapore for breaking the law there and we did nothing to stop their government from doing so?

Go on.....do the math.