You may have noticed that comments on the
recent Storm post have been turned off. If you're wondering why that's the case, it's because a handful of folks posting on that story are being rude, disrespectful, reactionary jerks.
To be clear, we can do that on any and all posts. Commenting on this site is a privilege, not a right -- and this is an exercise to demonstrate that. Lately we've noticed a lot of belligerent commenters acting like they own the place (the place being Engadget). News flash -- you don't. We love the participation and input from our commenters --
the readers of this site are what make it so great -- but when the normally intelligent discussion devolves into nasty, hate-filled rants... well, we have our limits of tolerance. If those commenters who wish to keep up this childish garbage continue, we'll just switch all the comments off. All the comments. Off.
So think before you type, and try to be mindful that the people who work here are human beings trying to do their job, not lightning rods for your bad vibes.
posted Dec 19th 2008 12:09AM
I never post comments, but still feel scolded like I'm in middle school. There are better ways...
Good decision. This site is one of my few favorites and its because you guys are great. Please don't let some hot steam blowers tell you different.
So basically being critical about your story selection and namely how you frame stories to convey a certain stance (perceived or otherwise) is ok, as long as there isn't 50 people all calling you out on it? It's easy to play the "our site our rules" card, but it kind of defeats the purpose of fostering an environment of clear and open dialog with your readership if you throw a tantrum when people gang up on you. The comments were churlish and perhaps misguided in their intensity, but they weren't particularly inflammatory, and I think you should be more concerned with why your readers feel the need to post such comments instead of fretting over the comments themselves.
yeah... what he said
I totally hear what you're saying, and we work hard to be as objective as possible -- and we make mistakes, nobody's perfect -- but at a certain point we've started having to worry *too* much about ever saying anything positive or negative about any company. It's become demoralizing to the writers, seeing comment after comment accusing us of being in the pay of some company, fanboys of another company, and besmirching of yet another. We love, love constructive criticism, but the hate is what we're trying to stop here.
I think it's just time the readers decided to actually talk about the post in their comments. If we all just provided interesting, beneficial and often funny opinions instead of feeding the fanboys, we wouldn't have the mess that happened on that storm post.
Kinda my feeling, well put though. I understand people didn't go about it the right way but it also does say something about how the users feel currently perhaps give it a little thought. I dunno I really don't want to find a new gadget site but I don't think I will have. Be true to your roots and just be a great gadget news blog.
Thanks
@ Paul Miller,
You've got a point, and believe me, many of us are educated enough to see it from your perspective, but the OP does have the even bigger point here.
Sure, a vast majority of hate-biting commenters just call everyone out left and right about anything. They do it entirely to provoke angry discussion and turn people against factions of certain product followings, but, to some extent, just because there were a lot of people doing it doesn't mean *everyone* thinks it. It seems that lately the comments section is just one huge orgy of people trying to outdo each other with even more critical witticisms, one-liner jabs, and stupid memes. Even I've been guilty of it.
But c'mon, the Storm story was almost entirely full of people talking about (and high ranking each other) the ugly four-letter B word. I won't say it, because honestly I think everyone tosses it around to get attention, but hey, it's obvious at least some vocal part of your readership thinks it. Isn't communicating that kind of message (abeit not always done in the most tactful manner) what the comments section is *supposed* to do?
Everyone appreciates Engadget; it's why I (and everyone else) read and check it obsessively. It's why people get so excited. You guys have nothing to be demotivated or demoralized about. You're awesome. It's just that doing this and pointing fingers at the Storm story only makes you look reactionary and scared, and that isn't what you are. What would Ryan Block do?
Have to echo what Paul's saying here. I can't express how upsetting and... well, incongruous it is to be using a Nokia N95 or a Sony Ericsson X1 as my primary phone and be accused in post after post after post of being a pawn of Apple. I know I speak for every other editor on this site when I say that I'm a straight shooter -- unbiased honesty is my goal day in and day out, and we're always going to give crap where crap is due and give praise where praise is due. I know it may not seem that way sometimes, but look, seriously, we're telling it like it is. If you want to look at BlackBerrys through rose-colored glasses, there's no shortage of fan sites that can take care of you; same goes for Apple, Microsoft, and virtually any other brand. That's not what we're about.
@ Chris
I feel ya, but the *most* important thing that you need to take away is that a majority of people who *SCREAM* all that nonsense are just doing it for the attention. It isn't anything personal. Nobody is implying that *you* or anyone else personally are doing a bad job, honestly.
This whole... Issue was inevitable. Lately the criticality of the comments and the back-and-forth bickering going on has reached a critical mass indeed. Something needed to give ::shrug::...
@nerdtalker -- What would Ryan Block do? http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/30/comments-switched-off/
::sigh:: Believe me, the vast majority of people aren't here to start some rage-fueled war about perceived bias/emphasis/preferential treatment/whatever in your stories; they're just here to read.
I've read through the Storm comments a few time, and it's largely just communicating one thing. That a bunch of people just didn't agree with the story and the (again perceived) slant. Perhaps it was the combination of the earlier Storm story in the day, perhaps it's just a ton of angry RIM apologists all upset that they got a device which doesn't work well *at all* (Honestly, I agree with your stance on the Storm; it's a sack of sh*t. You've posted more than enough evidence to support the stance in that story, honestly, more than enough.) But whatever the case though, don't let it spoil your day, or Engadget, and don't let it be the reason you lessen or cut off the dialog here entirely. You're a tech news site; juveniles and immature people trying to garner a following and argue with each other are going to happen, but you've got a thick skin.
Hey, writers are people, but commenters and readers are people too. We aren't all bad.
I must take this moment to point out that of the mabye four-or-five regular Engadget bloggers, only two have bothered to enter the point/counter-point arguments in the comments of this article.
And it just happens that those two are right up there in the top list of bloggers on this site who DON'T make all their articles pro-apple-snarky-to-everything-else.
Hey I agree with engadget to a certain extent. All the ugly name calling is a little out of place. However, its fine if it is indeed constructive criticism that is being commented. I just hope engadget doesn't turn into a facist blog. Now I will tell you this when they post things like 'whats your favorite OS"/console or whatever. A topic that has been beaten to death all over the internets they are just getting ready to start a flame war. I haven't even read the board in question yet cuz im not done reading this one.
@CJ Dude, I spent this evening flying to NYC for the meetup, that's why I'm not involved. I agree 100% with everything every other editor has said so far, but if you want to throw down, I've got my lawyer-card right here. Try me.
This is really starting to eat at me. What's the ugly 4 letter B word?
Best thread of the year right here. Engadget, you keep truckin, doin what you do best and I wish I was doin.
It is unfortunate that some people get VERY edgy over words, words not even of religion, politics, (insert issue here). You, as a site, have every right to post whatever you deem whenever. If i don't like what I read, I move on to something I do like. There are a multitude of Engadgets out there that always have something to offer. I appreciate EVERY author for their input, their humor.
So for the love of God, don't turn off the comments. I am in no way trying to insinuate that you are my only friends (you are), and that the comment system is my portal to the outer world (it is). I love you. (i dont, but maybe when im drunk later)
@engadget editors
the idiot commenters will always be here (as evidenced by Clak's 20th profile). try to not let them get to you.
also, angry posts make you look bad. some commenters make hostile posts, and so they look bad. but try not to respond to hostility with hostility. usually you guys respond very coolly (like Paul and Chris here), but occasionally, well, look at Nilay's comment. he could have left it at "i was on a plane," but instead he had to say "but if you want to throw down, I've got my lawyer-card right here. Try me." Getting confrontational with your commenters doesn't look good. leave the angry comments to the morons.
i do love engadget. generally you guys do a good job of being objective. and i'm sure the only reason you post a lot of apple stories (you can deny the bias, but you can't deny that) is that they tend to have the most page views and most comments (and probably most ad revenue). so that's kind of understandable.
@ Maveric101,
You're right on. Engadget, you're letting a tiny minority of posters totally get the best of you, and the sad part is that they're getting exactly what they want; a response.
You also echo my thoughts on Nilay Patel's remark. @Nilay, That was totally uncalled for. Perhaps I'm misreading, but I don't even get what you're talking about with lawyer-cards and throwing down, but the language isn't peaceful, it's pretty hateful. If you're going to make an entire post dedicated to quelling the rage and hate in comments, try to be a little bit less hypocritical and not give into the temptation to start challenging your readers to schoolyard duels. It just doesn't look good. Really. Everyone else has been civilized so far and resisted the temptation.
I hope when I wake up tomorrow morning the Engadget I know and love is back. Right now, it's just a ton of anger being thrown around between a few people with a little bit of tech news sprinkled in.
@ The Awesome
B.I.A.S... That's the word.
My turn to enter the fray....
I have read engadget for years. I have seen writers, commenters, and gadgets come and go. I have seen a large sample of what both sides are talking about and I here is the number one thing I'd like to point out....
If I wasn't able to read both sides................I wouldn't be here. If I wasn't able to TAKE a side...........I wouldn't be here. If the engadget writers were not able to post their side..............there would be no sides to be here for.
You're readers get that you TRY to be unbiased (at least most of them). But that doesn't mean they will not test you.
Case in point. The best example I can thing of going from bad to great was Ryan Block. There is a REASON he is the most respected and famous poster here (even after he LEFT) and it's not because he was here from the beginning.
He got most of his respect/fame after the HORRIBLE "review" he did on the Zune. He got CREAMED up one side and down the other. People challenged every part of his post and him personally....and rightly so. We wanted him to back up his claims. We wanted to put his conclusions to the test. I was foremost among them (in my mind anyway).
Well what did he do? Did he close the comments and then create a story saying his feelings were hurt? Well yes.....yes he did. But THEN he came back with what has to be one of the best regarded reviews this site has ever seen. He took the challenge of his readers and he is now the most listened to engadget employee. When he talks.....we listen.
Another example is Monster Cable. You guys are CLEARLY biased there (in that you refuse to write about them at all)....but something is different. We APPROVE of that bias! Why? Perhaps because you gave a clear reasoning for that bias? Perhaps because you successfully portrayed that such bias was truly for the benefit of your readers? Or perhaps you GOT US INVOLVED and got our stamp of approval before you acted on your bias and banned them? Perhaps a similar vote is needed for Apple to give you some real useful feedback on how we feel they should be covered (unless stories about Apple just generate too much traffic I guess).
My point is that to solve this perception that is so demoralizing to engadget writers, you don't need to administrate...you need to inform - change our paradigm if you will. (Note: I know you adamently claim to not be biased towards Apple, but at this point, perception is stronger than reality so I am still going to give advice based on that perception.)
Perhaps we need to know a bit more about the writers? Have you considers an area for each writer to tell us all about themselves and their experieces and perspectives? How about a catagory (like "Keeping it real...fake") once or twice a weak wherein the writers get to write about themselves?
At the very least, then we'd know that you are HUMAN and therefore less likely to want to insult you even when our favorite gadget gets a reaming.
I know I'm rambling...but just remember.... nothing will get you more respec than to take what we dish out and come back stronger. Remember, if your readers can dish it, we can take it....but the same goes for you guys.
Thanks. All I could think of was butt, but that didn't seem pertinent to the conversation.
All I Want For Christmas Is The Mac vs. PC argument to die. And thats coming from a pc user:)
No Mac is better.
Your argument would be much stronger if you were a Mac user. Quite sorry you own a pc and want people to think you have such amazing software and a device that was designed with no environmental standards other than to be as hazardous and cheaply made as possible......
P.S. Macs truly have the upper hand in any argument centered around user interface and environmentally sound design. Almost forgot....... They are COOL on top of all their greatness.
@ Michael:
See, that's the kind of comment that Engadget and all the other commentators are talking about! The 'Holier than thou' attitude!
What I have noticed more recently is that users are commenting that Engadget is Apple biased (occasionally true) and the comments are then getting marked up. Any comment that is pro-Apple then tends to get marked down regardless of content. Unfortunately, that does distort the natural discourse which happens in the comments section.
To be honest, Engadget is one of the few islands of sanity in a sea of rabidly pro-Apple blogs (just look at Crunch Gear, Giz, El Reg for example). It is the only one I read regularly because of that. Keep it up.
I hate trolls just as much as the next guy but this will not help. If they turned off the comments there would be less traffic and more would flock to gizmodo (might not be the correct spelling). Thus making Aol mad and make engadget turn them on. Because I think the all the adds i see on this site now leads me to believe that you guys are making a lot of money.
Thank you. There are some times when the comments just frustrate me to the point where I've actually considered finding some sort of Firefox extension to block comments altogether - and then I realise I'd be missing out on some good posts.
It's the self-righteous Mac users and the overly-defensive PC users that ruin it. They both give their respective groups a bad name. I happen to be a Mac user, but I never go the "Mac fanboy" route.
Engadget why are you so awesome Engadget? Is it the hair? Is it the posts?!? OR was it that lipo you got a few years ago. I love you Engadget.
o_O
"Holy shit, this is awesome."
Holy shit, this IS awesome.
Dino-Riders! The nostalgia. Good times.
Thank you, Engadget. As a newb to your site I was starting to get frustrated with the belligerence. Thank you for displaying some integrity.
Hmm... I think Spielberg just got some ideas for the plot of Jurassic Park 4.
I love the comment about ranting and raving is why they have a job...not because of knowledge or interesting news, or because Engadget breaks a lot of news first, but because people rant and rave. that's just brilliant. Honestly I wouldn't mind if we couldn't comment. I come here to read the articles, not what some joe nobody says. This isn't myspace.
I'm actually surprised the comment system doesn't have censorship.
Yeah for a while it seemed like they did. I seem to remember seeing some F-bombs and some underage sex comments being filtered out before. What happened to that?
Most of those comments on that post wouldn't be half as harsh if it wasn't F-this and B-that.
You're right, we seriously need to censor points containing certain words, such as "doom", "crysis", "overlords", "blend", and "soviet russia".
all such posts should be replaced with the family friendly phrase "the cake is a lie."
I totally remember being banned before. Permanently. Without notice.
Happened after calling Ryan Block out a few times without realizing he was the editor.
Bad idea....
Listen those jokes are old but every now and then some1 uses one of them so creatively it will make for a good laugh.
Good move but... why has it taken you so long to take such action? Quite frankly the comments I read detract greatly from the site and only serve the purpose of highlighting one of the worst aspects of the internet; users!
I agree with skemo.......
I love this site and read it everyday..... but a whole post dedicated to having a winge about the very people that make this site great...... (people with opinions nasty or not) is sorta like shooting urself in the foot!
Why dont u admins develop some sharp tongues urself.... and make the ranters feel a little silly before punishing them.... humiliation works better the reaction.
What do you mean we don't own this place???
j/k...
Thanks for taking action instead of dodging the shoe!
Normally being against any form of free speech (troll or not) would make me mad, but you do have a good point...plus the graphic was too awesome to make me mad.
Yeah! Frickin' lasers!
I'd be happy if comments were turned off for a while on engadget/joystiq/whatever for a while if it would get us a less broken comment system.
Engadget -- get over yourself. Unless you cut the offensive comments from the Storm post, there isn't really anything there that is too terrible. I've seen much worse on this site. Posting a general scolding to your readership is a little bizarre -- especially given the nature of the supposedly offending post. I could handle all the Apple posts, and all the ludicrous comments. That's why we vote people up and down. But this patronizing BS is something else entirely.
The asshats aren't the readership...they're just the loud minority.
http://dresdencodak.com/gallery/dinocomic.html
perfect!
This is perfect. Now my mom can read Engadget.